Renewal or not?

[mynetdude]

Well I can't help but reply as I feel the same way. I'll tell you this, I am due for promotion 1 month from now I am not due for renewal until 2009 that doesn't mean I won't flinch because it only takes one major downfall within my squadron to do one of the two things: A) discontinue going, or B) transfer to another unit (although I am not sure this will help either).  I may have had more time than walker here, I don't have the full understanding of all what is going on within my own squadron, wing and at the national level (I don't hear much about pacific region.  Quite frankly, I don't care; if you guys want to fight/bicker/argue about policy and how it should be... fine please do but please don't neglect the programs/missions CAP is intended to do and please stop acting stupid, dumb (or numb!).

Sure NHQ is buttoning up regulations, things get more complicated/difficult/time consuming whatever that is a fact of life and a fact of the USAF.  I do not necessarily agree with the direction corporate is exactly going although I don't follow every detail (it hurts my head too much to do so) and you know what to be honest I don't have a problem following policy/regulation even though it is so confusing and difficult that I see some long day/nights trying to figure things out or asking a million senseless questions (and some I might add turn out to reveal great answers).

I don't disagree that corporation needs to go with the "times" of today's acceptable standards, yet we can't let go of our history/story/heritage.  My problem isn't really with the NHQ or region level really I don't know enough about it and TBH yes some things are changing and hurting (or making better, I don't know that I can't say for sure) but I sure as heck know enough down at the squadron/wing level that I am not sure I just want to wade through their mess! (no I am not involved in any shape, form etc except that I am a member and have to watch their garbage go in and out constantly.

I joined PCROR007 October 2006, and saw just over 80 total combined members we made up the majority of ORWG at the time we are now down to 65 members! Do I want to standby and pretend nothing is happening? I am trying to help my squadron support its goals and the CAP missions as required, no truly it doesn't have a severe or profound effect on me directly I can continue doing what I love to do and that is computer work that is what I live for now at CAP along with ES.

When I first came to CAP I wasn't all sure what I'd do, or what I would want to do and at first I thought it was all about flying and cadet programs (I had wanted to join CAP back when I lived in Washington 7-8 years ago but didn't do it because of my own personal fears which I still have to this day.  And part of that fear is blowing up right in front of me, when I saw I could get involved in doing computer stuff more than getting involved in aircrew assignments for missions because of my limited vision I am happy where I am at but I will NOT standby and let the squadron whittle itself away by pure political crap gong on.

We have a GREAT squadron commander, he sometimes overdoes it because we are getting smaller and smaller with staffing and support and with what we have left people rarely show up or just don't want to do the job and would rather sit in an airplane at 5,000 feet and do a bunch of turns all day I don't know what they think or want really.  We are seeing cadets leave due to the "incompatibility of senior members" they say that senior members won't work with the cadets (which is true, except for a few) and there are cadets who don't want anything to do with seniors because of the above reason.

We have so much stuff going on, it isn't funny and Wing isn't even helping either they are adding to the mess by just letting it "ride and slide".  I can tell you first hand one of our members filed a complaint with NHQ regarding an incident that happened at our squadron which the squadron commander, nor wing commander (or vice commanders for that matter) chose not to acknowledge... I was there the day it happened I didn't witness it however so I can't tell you if it really happened or it did.

I got my brother to join and I am frustrated he won't come back, he left a month after he joined he is a shy person and does not tolerate people very well but he could have come to like things if things weren't so screwed up. The DCC's kid won't come back either (although he is very people friendly, but won't come back for the same reason as my brother).

Do you think I REALLY want to stick around? I want to see people working together instead of arguing and saying "sorry, thats just policy, or sorry nothing I can do about it you're on your own" whatever...  yes I know we have to follow policy and do the right thing but I'm tired of the higher ups making policy that doesn't even exist as of late.

I want to try another squadron, the next nearest one is more than 1/2 the size smaller! I am not sure that is the answer, I can go to another squadron 2hrs north of me which is in the same city where our wing HQ is.....  do I really want to travel 4hrs that day? thats a lot of driving and more miles to drive... but then again... its not much of a difference when I do 70 miles round trip every time I go to our unit I can handle 240 miles round trip

OR I could go down to California, there is supposed to be a unit in Redding/Shasta Composite Squadron, again that is a 2hr drive (alittle more actually) again, is California any better? I wouldn't say better, but they are different probably.  And no I do not plan to move, I like where I live.

All have gots to say is this I don't think I plan to renew after 2010 if it isn't worth staying on the Patron level (my next renewal is in 2009, but I am willing to renew at least one year after that).

I am proud to have joined CAP, it has given me more confidence and renewed skills and more to learn about, I actually liked the idea we followed military tradition as I could never legally join the military.  I am quite interested in that VSAF program, that is a completely new concept and I am all for it except it is a pilot program in two places right now and I have no idea if that would include ANG bases or just AFBs only?

I know the magic isn't going to happen overnight or right now, however I refuse to standby and watch the politics rip one person out at a time.  I would have liked to see more hands on actual military training as a senior member as I never got the opportunity to be a cadet (or maybe I did, but my parents didn't allow it for a good reason at the time) and the training could/would be for educational benefit and interest bonding not so much in doing your job at the squadron or wing (though I am sure it could help).


You guys are all talking about NHQ, yes I realize they are causing some of the problems too they are not innocent.  We have seen an incredible amount of increase in paperwork (or shall I say computer-paperwork) which is OK I don't mind, it is what I do best but if they keep adding/changing things to complicate things it makes it difficult for me to train our staff sometimes!

Well I don't want to write a book about problems, I just wanted to point out that I am not happy at the lower level and I am not particularly fond of what is happening at the NHQ level and like I said before I don't wholly pay attention to it all and only wait till it slaps everybody in the face (it is easier for me to handle it that way).  I still need to get cadets OPSEC qualified by April 1st, we have two weeks left... certainly isn't going to happen either and you want to know why? DCC says cadets have to fulfill certain requirements each month and there isn't much time on Tuesdays to do it. 

One day at a time folks...

[DNall]

I'm pretty well convinced that all organizations have frustrating and absurd politics, especially at the top.  If you don't think our parent service is rife with meddling middle management and shady politics, well, you're just being naive.

What can you do, really?  Well, you can vote with your feet.  Or you can be one of the 95% of CAPers that just do their job and serve the organization they love, and brush off all the politicos and pundits.

You don't leave the United States for another country when your elected officials disappoint you, right?  Your love of country is greater than your opinion of any particular elected official.

So it is with CAP.  My love for the organization is greater than my disappointment in any particular CAP leaders I've seen (and I've seen some pretty disappointing leaders).

That would be fine except it's not 95%. You know very well our year over year retention numbers are more like 60%, and of that 60% a bit less than half are actively participating at a Sq. The retention beyond five years is horrid... So you're talking about 25-30% of the organization are going about their work ignoring the BS, and 5-10% have been around long enough to even know how to keep things operating. Yet we recruit up & institutional memory at the unit level is low. So voting with your feet is pretty meaningless. We'll have some other victim ready to take your place as soon as you vacate the chair.

I think you'll find everyone here does love CAP. Most have also worked very hard and sacrificed very deeply to make things better. Yet when we reach a point where success can be attained, we're stymied by the nature of the the organization.

I don't care if a bunch of idiots want to fight it out over who's the big fish in the little pond. I do care when it impacts the real world & cripples our operations. I also care when that power struggle self-importance BS is the senior leadership defying commander's intent from the AF. There's always going to be personal politics in any organization, but there should not be organizational politics within a unified chain of command. And, that's what's killing us, that & crippling incompetence.

[floridacyclist]

I'm pretty good at ignoring things, but when they start impacting the local level, it starts getting to me.

Ex 1: We were asked by a local gov't agency to fly some photo-recon missions and they needed it done by the end of January. Not a prob except we were told we needed an MOU based on our pre-approved (by Nat'l) boilerplate template. The draft MOU went to the gov't agency and was approved by their lawyers and then came back to CAP where it has been since early February. After the first week, I called and was told that some of the CAP contact info was wrong and that I needed to fix it...this is on the template that I was sent by them. At the very least I would have throught they would have called me and told me what was wrong instead of just sitting on it. I do the research on who is in what position, fix the problem, and send it in like 3 weeks ago. In spite of emailing once a week or so asking about the status and making sure it is good, I finally get an email stating that it should be done by this weekend. In the meantime, I have this agency breathing down my neck and calling me every other day asking why we're not flying yet and my squadron commander railing at me saying that we don't need an MOU or an IC or anything like that, we just need a pilot and a plane, which we have already.

In the middle of this I was trying to plan another ICS weekend just like last one (ICS100/200 and IS700 + ICS300 in a seperate concurrent class) only including 400 in a third class. I had several volunteer professional instructors lined up including the owner of an emergency management consulting and instructional firm, an instructor from a competing firm and 2 gov't EM training officers. We lost our original date due to scheduling conflicts at the classroom/billeting/mess hall facility we were using so we started working on re-scheduling. As I'm emailing back and forth, I get this email from a high-ranking CAP ICS instructor whom I had asked for help (and been declined) telling me to remove a certain commercial instructor from the list. Not only did he email me, but CCed the other instructors as well. No sooner had I replied saying "OK, am I to assume that he is no longer available?" than I get other emails from my other instructors saying remove their names as well...that they are pros and don't play games. Turns out that these folks used to work together and the parting was less than amicable. Apologies weren't sufficient, we were told in no uncertain terms that the pros do not want to piddle in our petty nonsense.

2 more group training activities and a Ranger Weekend and I'm out of here and on the road for 4 months...we'll do Hawk Mountain and Blue Beret during our trip but after this ride, I honestly do not know what capacity I want to come back in...assuming I do.

[mynetdude]

Yeah here's a good example:

My commander gets notified by the county sheriffs emergency management director that an ICS300/400 class is available.  He emails everybody a couple weeks later, I sign up, a few others sign up.  He sends another email with that list back to county EM director a week or so later.  No word comes back for awhile, list goes out again, finally an email comes back saying the class is full no room for CAP even though in the original/initial email it said that CAP members were welcome and it was already paid for (free to us).

It isn't the county director's fault that we didn't submit our emails in time; I don't want to blame the commander, and really it isn't his fault either.  I have asked several times to let me be the squadron Liaison involving public relations and ES (no this doens't mean being a PAO, thats another topic). My job would be to keep abreast of what would be going on with our squadron and the county/community and merge/sync information between the two major entities (I consider the county/community a major entity).

What have I got? No answer, no response... I guess he doesn't want a liaison... fine... then you know what... if that is what you want rest assured we'll never get any ICS300/400 classes or get involved in other county ES/EM stuff because we don't have a building relation and they do not have someone who can provide feedback on behalf the squadron because the commander has too many fingers int oo many things.

^^ that is just spelling for unsuccess in ES in our area, we lost our airplane to go with it.

Don't get me wrong I like CAP, I've put in a lot of time and I can ignore most of the BS/politics which I have no problem doing if A) it doesn't affect me or have an imact on me B) the squadron continues to be successful anything else... my hands will be tied and they will be begging which is why I am not going to encampment this year either I didn't appreciate the results last year.

NO matter where you go there will be politics, I can accept that; should there be any? TBH, no not really but that isn't something that can be avoided in today's world.

This spring I hope to visit another squadron, and see if my family will support me transferring out of state even if it means making a 2hr drive once or twice a week.  The bummer is that its going to really limit my involvement as I am not going to want to make a 2hr drive every time something comes up.  If I like the squadron I will stay at least until Fall of '08 and then transfer out in spring of '09 if things don't get better at my local unit and if things go well for me in whatever I choose I may consider staying longer in CAP even if it isn't in my local unit.

[RiverAux]

You don't need an MOU to fly for an agency.  Just a written request to the NOC.  Our wing has done it that way with at least 2-3 different state agencies in the past year or two (none have anything to do with our emergency mgt division).  I think you guys got some bad advice. 

[floridacyclist]

Whether we do or not, the decision was made far over my head...ours is not to wonder why etc etc etc

[Fifinella]

^^ That's a big part of the problem as I see it.  This organization is Byzantine.  It is very difficult and frustrating to figure out how things are "supposed to" be done.  The regs and guidelines contradict each other.  It's a H**l of a lot of work, and most volunteers don't want to spend copious amounts of time digging through paperwork to try to figure out how things are "supposed to" be done.  It's a poor way to run an org.  Things "ought to" to clearly defined, and volunteers "ought to" be able to understand how to do things right out of the box.

I won't rant on...I could go for some time.

I think this is a good discussion, but I hope it doesn't disillusion anyone prematurely...

[mynetdude]

^^ That's a big part of the problem as I see it.  This organization is Byzantine.  It is very difficult and frustrating to figure out how things are "supposed to" be done.  The regs and guidelines contradict each other.  It's a H**l of a lot of work, and most volunteers don't want to spend copious amounts of time digging through paperwork to try to figure out how things are "supposed to" be done.  It's a poor way to run an org.  Things "ought to" to clearly defined, and volunteers "ought to" be able to understand how to do things right out of the box.

I won't rant on...I could go for some time.

I think this is a good discussion, but I hope it doesn't disillusion anyone prematurely...

If they do that, we could see some growth again, regulation is just part of the big picturesque of the problem.  Culling the lower level politics/funding problems could also improve things as well.

Funding especially...

[sarmed1]

I did my renewal on the morinig of 28 Feb.....and then e-mailed my commander requesting to drop to patron status.  I too have grown tired of the bickering, infighting silly reg changes and ego boosts for echelons above reality.  (all of which seem to screw over the local level units that are really thrying to be ready for and do the mission)

My non CAP life is much busier than before, I am active with extra projects at the paramedic job plus the volunteer fire department.  The county Technical rescue team gets me much better and more frequent missions that actually use more than 1/10th of my skills.
If I want to play "military" well thats what I have the AF Reserve for...maybe I will actually pursue going to CAP-RAP as an additional duty, maybe that will make me feel more like I can effect a solution to the problems, rather than being overwhelmed by them....

I feel your pain as well
mk

[CASH172]

I've been trying to stay away from this thread, but here I go anyway.  As a cadet, do I feel a lot of the same issues mentioned before?  The answer is yes, but as a cadet, I have gotten so much out of CAP.  Quite frankly, CAP has had a big impact on my life.  It has given me amazing experiences, great friends, and useful lessons on life. 

Do I see a lot of the political stuff we talk of on here?  Definitely, but I work toward doing what I can.  For stuff on small levels, I work on doing what I can do to remedy the problems.  Do I get myself involved on every single local political problem?  No, but I look to see if it affects me or something I hold dear then act on that.  I hold all other cadets very dear and cannot stand when this kinda stuff hits them.  It's pointless to talk of how I'll leave CAP complaining of everything without working to remedy the problem at least. 

Something that I ask all seniors to think about is what happens to the cadets when you leave?  The Cadet Program at any level cannot function without the seniors and without seniors, there would be no cadets. 

[floridacyclist]

You just hit the nail on the head about why I (and I bet many others) are still here. if it weren't for the cadets, more of us would have been gone a long time ago.