What would constitute impersonating an officer?

[davedove]

I concur with John Kachenmeister that CAP is the USAF-AUX, by an act of Congress. I challenge anyone to produce a source constituting a superior authority that contradicts this. CAP or Air Force Policy on Bling, flair, patches,  stickers, or AFAMS does not change the irrefutable fact that we are the Aux. Its not just policy. Its the law.

Hear, hear.  Besides, it's not like there's another AF Aux. floating around out there.  Any time the Aux. is active, CAP is the one doing the job.

[afgeo4]

What drift?  The central question of this thread was "What constitutes Impersonation of an Officer."

Correct. It is not "What constitutes an Auxiliary".

[JohnKachenmeister]

OK.  You lost me.

Let's review:

False impersonation of an officer of the United States requires specific intent to defraud, and is a felony.  It includes all "Officers," not just military officers.  Case law includes persons identifying themselves as officials of the Tennesee Valley Authority to facilitarte fraudulent land transactions.

A lesser crime, false wearing of the uniform of the armed forces, is a misdemeanor, does not require any specific fraudulent intent, and includes wearing the uniform of auxiliaries of the armed forces.

There are only two armed forces auxiliaries at this time, those being the Civil Air Patrol (AF), and the Coast Guard Auxiliary (CG).  The many other former military auxiliaries that existed during WWII no longer exist, except for those two.

Now I am sure you will tell me where I am wrong on this.

[RogueLeader]

What drift?  The central question of this thread was "What constitutes Impersonation of an Officer."

Correct. It is not "What constitutes an Auxiliary".

Also since the Full time/Part Time of Aux/aux was brought up, and it is a a key component of impersonation of an aux member, it has my full blessing.

Carry on.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

It's germane to ask, if we're not the full-time auxiliary, whether wearing the Air Force uniform on non-Auxiliary missions or functions is legal.

But since the idea that we're not the full-time auxiliary doesn't seem to be based in much more than liability, this sidebar doesn't seem to hold water for me.

The idea that we're changing insignia to tie in less to our parent organization is coincidental, and seems to come from a previous regime at National Headquarters, not from any larger policy change.

I don't like the loss of "USAF Auxiliary" or USAF Aux" from our identity, because "Civil Air Patrol" elicits a lot of "huh?" responses from people. The more we identify with the parent, the better known we are. Of course, part of that is that we need to tow the line more so the Air Force will want to associate more with us in return.

But the only time a CAP member is impersonating an officer is... never. (That is, unless you consider the guilt some people have in having rank they didn't work as hard for as their actual Air Force counterparts!)

[mikeylikey]

(That is, unless you consider the guilt some people have in having rank they didn't work as hard for as their actual Air Force counterparts!)

Oh My Freaking God!  How many more times are we going to have to read that exact same sentence here at CAPTALK???

Enough..........  If you or anyone else don't feel you deserve to wear your neon blue and white piece of cloth, DON'T! 

Many members work very hard for their CAP rank.  By saying what you just said, you put their achievements in an organization (THAT is NOT the Air Force BTW) they care for and try to support the best they can. 

I swear If I could just get the whole "we don't deserve rank" group in a room for twenty minutes, we would have the whole situation worked out.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Mikey, what I said and you quoted was a jab and an aside, frankly. While in other posts, we agree, I have to say that here, your "Internet Tough Guy" response is silly.

I earned my grade, and I know many others who did. I took tests that weren't open book (like Level I) to access officer grade, too.

We have grade, and I wouldn't argue that we shouldn't. As long as we conduct ourselves appropriately for our rank and grade, we should keep it. Of course, that requires individual effort from each of us who wear officer grade.

That's my stance. Any questions?

[Hawk200]

Mikey, what I said and you quoted was a jab and an aside, frankly. While in other posts, we agree, I have to say that here, your "Internet Tough Guy" response is silly.

If you'd been part of this board longer, you'd understand that his response wasn't a "Tough Guy" response, it's one of exasperation. People here learn ,after a while, learn to not bring certain things up in order to avoid the irritation, because the same subject gets to burning and never gets put out.

Either you did it out of ignorance, or you were intentionally trying to start that little war.
If the former, no harm done, just please don't joke about such things in the future. If the latter, this isn't the right place for you.

[Eclipse]

How many more times are we going to have to read that exact same sentence here at CAPTALK???

We should have a SEARCH function!

Oh, we do...never mind....

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Hawk, I stand corrected. Mikey, my apologies for misunderstanding.

I wasn't aware of a fatigue, so that's a "rookie" mistake.

[mikeylikey]

^ My fault, I blew up on you.  Sorry!

[Hawk200]

Hawk, I stand corrected. Mikey, my apologies for misunderstanding.

I wasn't aware of a fatigue, so that's a "rookie" mistake.

No worries, man. We're almost family here as much as we fight about things  . We do have some brilliant minds here, we'd probably be dangerous if people actually paid attention to us. 

Welcome to CAPTalk.

[High Speed Low Drag]

**** 2 year BUMP ****  (I love doing bumps)

Q:  If you had a cadet post a picture on Facebook, in a regulation CAP flightsuit (Command patch, flag, leather name tag (w/ name, "CAPT     CAP" & Senior Pilot Wings), with plastic encased Capt Bars, and a flight cap w/ the cadet cap device), -- what would reg would you cite for impersonating a CAP Senior Officer?

Serious Question, currently dealing with it.  I have already come up with a list, but want the great collective wisdom of the board to make sure I haven't missed anything else, particularly the impersonating part.

[PHall]

Are you sure it's worth the time and effort?

[High Speed Low Drag]

Yes.  There is more, but all of that is listed.  the one thing I couldn't find was a specific reg saying that a cadet cannot impersonate a senior member officer.

[Pylon]

Yes.  There is more, but all of that is listed.  the one thing I couldn't find was a specific reg saying that a cadet cannot impersonate a senior member officer.

I see your sig says you're a Deputy Cmdr for Cadets.   Is the cadet in question one of your cadets?  If so, just dispense the appropriate discipline.  You don't need a chapter and verse reg cite to tell a cadet that every inappropriate act is inappropriate.

If he is not one of your cadets, consider either:  A) using your commander, tactfully bringing the photo's existence to the attention of that cadet's commander and simply leave it at that; or B) letting it go.

[JoeTomasone]

Yes.  There is more, but all of that is listed.  the one thing I couldn't find was a specific reg saying that a cadet cannot impersonate a senior member officer.

If this wasn't just someone goofing a fake picture and you really want to go through with it...

Grade Insignia: Senior members will wear regular size plastic encased grade insignia centered
horizontally on top of each shoulder with bottom edge of insignia placed 1/2 inch from shoulder
seam. General officers will center plastic grade insignia on shoulder. CAP cutouts will not be
worn. Cadets do not wear insignia or cutouts.

Temporary & Discretionary Grades. There are no temporary promotions or demotions, including temporary or "field" promotions or demotions at encampments and other activities. There are no discretionary grades. Cadets will wear their earned grade on their uniform at every CAP activity. The only grades authorized are those shown in Figure 2-3. However, each squadron may appoint a C/MSgt, C/SMSgt or C/CMSgt to serve as the cadet first sergeant. Cadets serving in this special duty are authorized to wear the first sergeant diamond insignia.

Neither directly on point, but valid nonetheless.

[Spike]

Serious Question, currently dealing with it.  I have already come up with a list, but want the great collective wisdom of the board to make sure I haven't missed anything else, particularly the impersonating part.

How did you get the picture?  Was it sent to you??

Said cadet can claim it photoshop??

[lordmonar]

Okay.....going after a guy because he is wearing a uniform he is not entitled to on a face book picture.....is a bit much.

Okay....pat's rules for impersonating a CAP officer.

The individual must wear the uniform/insignia with the intention to defruad someone or something.

Wearing the wrong rank....is not a major failure.....I can think of several senerios where I would allow it.....say a person shows up for a mission with out a uniform....someone else (of higher ranks) has a spare flight suit......we have a mission to do and two regs apply......we break one to satisfy the requirments of the other.


No harm, no foul.

If this cadet is already on the line for getting into trouble.....again I think it is a strech to go after him for simply a face book picture.  If he is really that bad just wait...he will really screw up and then you can hammer him to your heart's content.

[RiverAux]

Who needs a specific reg cite about impersonating a senior member?  The cadet was not in proper CAP uniform if they were wearing items they were not qualified to wear.