greetings

[brasda91]

When you talk with the nco's at your armory, do you use your official title?  Example, you're at home and realize you need some supplies for your office, say a light bulb is out.  You know that the 1Sgt or admin NCO will have the bulb replaced.  So you give him a call.  If you don't know him on a first name basis, do you say "Hello Sgt._______, this is Maj (Lt Col, 1Lt, etc.) __________.  We have a light bulb that needs to be replaced."  Or do you just say "Hey, this is Bob Jones with the Civil Air Patrol......."?

Just curious what others do.  I know a few of the active duty NG guys, but not enough to call them by name.  Any time in the past I've talked with the admin NCO he always says"Sir".  It's nice and I appreciate it, but I don't expect the active duty guys to address me as "Sir".

[♠SARKID♠]

I usually do both, I say
"Hello, this is C/MSgt Turkal from the Civil Air Patrol...."

[dwb]

In general, I refer to them by rank, but leave mine off.  Especially if I "outrank" the person I'm writing to.

That said, I'll do a formal signature (with rank) if it is appropriate for the situation.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I use my rank.  I earned it, I use it.

[Pylon]

In general, I refer to them by rank, but leave mine off.

I agree with Dan here.  Use their rank and any appropriate titles.  I tend to leave my rank off, especially if I'm talking to: parents, ANG personnel and NHQ staff.  In all of those cases my rank is irrelevant and means nothing.

Parents: "Hi Mrs. Smith, this is Mike Kieloch from Civil Air Patrol calling about your son/daughter..."

ANG:  "Hi Capt Doe (or SSgt Doe or whatever), this is Mike Kieloch from Civil Air Patrol..."

NHQ Staff:  "Hi, this is Mike Kieloch from the NY-408 squadron..."

If I'm calling or talking to cadets, it's a different story.

[Eclipse]

^That's basically what I do...

[floridacyclist]

If I'm talking to NCOs like say AFRCC, I'll use my rank, but very informally....and have made jokes with them in the past about not being a real Captain or still being an enlisted guy at heart. At the same time, I take them seriously and want the same in return.  With parents, I usually use my rank because we're trying to build an atmosphere of authority and discipline and we need them to buy into it as well.

[MIKE]

NHQ Staff:  "Hi, this is Mike Kieloch from the NY-408 squadron..."

Blimey... That sounds positively British!

[Pylon]

Blimey... That sounds positively British!

That time with the RAF rubbed off on me, what can I say?    :angel:

[IceNine]

I agree with pylon with one addition.

If I'm dealing with GS Civilians on base or trying to get something that is easier for an officer I use my grade/rank/stuff I wear on my collar.

But if you're trying to get the local E-7 or O-2 calling yourself Capt. BagO'Donuts (or something less descriptive) will probably turn them off and make them think you're throwing around titles

[mikeylikey]

I use my rank.  I earned it, I use it.

I second that!

[CadetProgramGuy]

"Hello this is Capt McLaughlin with the Iowa Wing of the Civil Air Patrol......."

[JayT]

I use my rank.  I earned it, I use it.

I second that!

Yeah, but is that the best way to communicate?

[stillamarine]

I use my rank.  I earned it, I use it.

I second that!

Yeah, but is that the best way to communicate?

Why not? Seriously unless your trying to pull rank on a RM person I don't see any reason not to use it. When your on AD you get so used to using your rank in conversation that it becomes part of your name.

[mikeylikey]

I use my rank.  I earned it, I use it.

I second that!

Yeah, but is that the best way to communicate?

Why not? Seriously unless your trying to pull rank on a RM person I don't see any reason not to use it. When your on AD you get so used to using your rank in conversation that it becomes part of your name.

And when you reach a certain point in your military career, the title of rank stays with you for life.  The good Major above will always be allowed to write "Major John K", and freely use that title, just as Doctors and Lawyers do.

[Gunner C]

I will go ahead and say "Hi, I'm Col Pierce from the Civil Air Patrol.  How're ya doin' today?"  I treat the person on the other side of the conversation just like I would like to be treated and I don't put on any airs.

I use my rank just because it's my rank and that's how professionals deal with one another.  If you think for a second that a senior NCO is going to be intimidated then either you don't know NCOs or you've never been one.

Not using your rank makes us sound like a club.  If that's the impression you want to leave, that's fine.  But we should be professional in all our doings with the outside world.  If you earned it, as I assume you all did, then use it.  But NEVER abuse it.

Remember, these aren't honorary ranks.  They are your title of address. 

GC

[Pylon]

Remember, these aren't honorary ranks.  They are your title of address. 

They're not our Titles of Address for people actually in the Armed Forces.  I would not expect any member of Real Military to call me anything other than my name. 

I use my rank just because it's my rank and that's how professionals deal with one another.  If you think for a second that a senior NCO is going to be intimidated then either you don't know NCOs or you've never been one.

It's not how professionals deal with each other.  It may be how people in the Real Military deal with each other, but outside of that realm - that's not how it works.

I don't call the Finance Department and say "Hi, this is Marketing & Communications Specialist Mike Kieloch from the Public Relations & Development Department.  Is Accounts Payable Coordinator Patty Smith available?"

I don't introduce myself to people from other organizations with my job title or seniority in the agency thrown in there.  It's just "Hi, I'm Mike Kieloch from Arc of Onondaga".  Our Executive Director does the same thing.  Nobody thinks either of us are in a club.  Nobody thinks that we're not from a multi-million dollar organization.   Nobody assumes my Executive Director is not an important person because he didn't tell them his title.

"Hi, I'm [name] from [organization]" is an effective enough greeting for the outside professional world, I don't see why it's not good enough for civilian members of Civil Air Patrol. ...especially since grade in Civil Air Patrol means nothing without additional context.  A Lt Colonel in Civil Air Patrol could mean you're nothing other than the Assistant Testing Officer at the Podunk Composite Squadron and you've just been 'round for a really long time, or maybe it means you were a Lt Col in the Army and just joined CAP the other day.  Or maybe you're a Lt Colonel who's a National-level staff officer.  Throwing in the grade adds no value to the conversation - even to people in the organization.

People are "entitled" to use their CAP grade, I suppose, but whether it adds anything of value (and whether or not it actually damages your image by using it in your introduction) is subjective.  That's just my two cents. 

[MIKE]

It is the issue of not being a real captain, particularly when dealing with the RealMilitary.  It may be a bit different if you are using Lt Col, USAF (Ret.) versus Lt Col, CAP... Not the same.

[LeoBurke]

Remember, these aren't honorary ranks.  They are your title of address. 

They're not our Titles of Address for people actually in the Armed Forces.  I would not expect any member of Real Military to call me anything other than my name. 

I use my rank just because it's my rank and that's how professionals deal with one another.  If you think for a second that a senior NCO is going to be intimidated then either you don't know NCOs or you've never been one.

It's not how professionals deal with each other.  It may be how people in the Real Military deal with each other, but outside of that realm - that's not how it works.

I don't call the Finance Department and say "Hi, this is Marketing & Communications Specialist Mike Kieloch from the Public Relations & Development Department.  Is Accounts Payable Coordinator Patty Smith available?"

I don't introduce myself to people from other organizations with my job title or seniority in the agency thrown in there.  It's just "Hi, I'm Mike Kieloch from Arc of Onondaga".  Our Executive Director does the same thing.  Nobody thinks either of us are in a club.  Nobody thinks that we're not from a multi-million dollar organization.   Nobody assumes my Executive Director is not an important person because he didn't tell them his title.

"Hi, I'm [name] from [organization]" is an effective enough greeting for the outside professional world, I don't see why it's not good enough for civilian members of Civil Air Patrol. ...especially since grade in Civil Air Patrol means nothing without additional context.  A Lt Colonel in Civil Air Patrol could mean you're nothing other than the Assistant Testing Officer at the Podunk Composite Squadron and you've just been 'round for a really long time, or maybe it means you were a Lt Col in the Army and just joined CAP the other day.  Or maybe you're a Lt Colonel who's a National-level staff officer.  Throwing in the grade adds no value to the conversation - even to people in the organization.

People are "entitled" to use their CAP grade, I suppose, but whether it adds anything of value (and whether or not it actually damages your image by using it in your introduction) is subjective.  That's just my two cents. 

Uh, I have a different opinion in dealing with the military and in dealing with civilians. 

Not sure where you work.  I work for a very large (like fortune 15) company.  All our internal emails include a signature block, with a title or description of our role.  For instance:

  Larry Jones
  Program Manager
  Americas (or Specific Account)

This clearly lets people know at what level of authority the individual is making a request. 

On conference calls and in meetings, we always discuss our roles and authority.  Should I call someone, I do say "I'm Leo Burke, Program Manager for xxxx."  This sets their expectations of my authority to request something or make a decision. 

I have dealt with "The Real Military" and "The fake Military" and "the Wannabee Military".  Heck, I've even dealt with the US Coast Guard and I don't know what they are anymore. 

If I'm CAP, I introduce myself as "Lieutenant Colonel Leo Burke, with the Civil Air Patrol, I am the (fill in the blank)"  This sets your role, lets them know you are an experienced professional.  Can't think of a time when I haven't been addressed or introduced as (Lt) Colonel Burke or treated as an equal.  In fact, I can think of more than one time where I have politely said "Lt, Captain, Airman or seargent - I don;t think you have the authority to answer my question or solve my problem.  Can I speak to your supervisor/commander/etc?" And been politely handed off.   If you are an IC and interact with the AFRCC often enough, you see that they readily defer to the CAP IC's experience.  This includes shift supervisor and up into the command staff.

This thread is not about 'greetings'.   It's about respect.  Usually people give it out freely until you don't earn it anymore.

[Short Field]

I will go ahead and say "Hi, I'm Col Pierce from the Civil Air Patrol.  How're ya doin' today?" 

Your rank and title is "Lt Col", not Col.  When another person is addressing a Lt Col, it is ok to drop the Lt and call them Col.   However, it is never ok for a Lt Col to introduce themself as a Colonel.   

[RogueLeader]

I was meeting with my chaplain today, where he works- he's a Major; and he introduced me to several people there as Lt. Seng.  If he doesn't have a problem with doing that, why should I?

[SarDragon]

I will go ahead and say "Hi, I'm Col Pierce from the Civil Air Patrol.  How're ya doin' today?" 

Your rank and title is "Lt Col", not Col.  When another person is addressing a Lt Col, it is ok to drop the Lt and call them Col.   However, it is never ok for a Lt Col to introduce themself as a Colonel.   

I disagree. Here's what CAPP 151 has to say:

Titles of address for Air Force officers and CAP officers

Title	Term of Address
General	General
Lieutenant General	General
Major General	General
Brigadier General	General
Colonel	Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel	Colonel
Major	Major
Captain	Captain
First Lieutenant	Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant	Lieutenant

Nowhere do I see any other distinctions on usage. I have never had nor seen any problems with shortened forms of address in all my time in CAP, AFROTC, and the Navy.

[notaNCO forever]

Hi this is Daniel Patenude From the Civil Air Patrol. I use this for my cadets who know I'm an NCO. Also when I talk to someone from the military. Anyone else I put seargent in front of my name.

[SamFranklin]

Lots of people who are not in the military want to be addressed by their rank. And why not, they've earned it.



In the movie "Trekkies," the filmmakers follow Barbara Adams to work, where she is addressed as "Commander." 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5hVxCJh6yw

[jimmydeanno]

Oh - that is GOOD!

[Short Field]

I disagree. Here's what CAPP 151 has to say:

Titles of address for Air Force officers and CAP officers

Title	Term of Address
General	General
Lieutenant General	General
Major General	General
Brigadier General	General
Colonel	Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel	Colonel
Major	Major
Captain	Captain
First Lieutenant	Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant	Lieutenant

Nowhere do I see any other distinctions on usage. I have never had nor seen any problems with shortened forms of address in all my time in CAP, AFROTC, and the Navy.

As the chart says.  When you introduce yourself to people, you are using your title of "Lt Col".  When they talk to you, they can address you as "Col". 

This is especially true when using the telephone - as most people would not want to mislead them to believe they are getting a request from a Colonel and not a Lt Colonel.   In correspondence, it is ok to refer to Lt Cols as Colonels, after you have first identified them as a Lt Col.

[jimmydeanno]

Maybe we should make a regulation for this.

[Gunner C]

I disagree. Here's what CAPP 151 has to say:

Titles of address for Air Force officers and CAP officers

Title	Term of Address
General	General
Lieutenant General	General
Major General	General
Brigadier General	General
Colonel	Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel	Colonel
Major	Major
Captain	Captain
First Lieutenant	Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant	Lieutenant

Nowhere do I see any other distinctions on usage. I have never had nor seen any problems with shortened forms of address in all my time in CAP, AFROTC, and the Navy.

As the chart says.  When you introduce yourself to people, you are using your title of "Lt Col".  When they talk to you, they can address you as "Col". 

This is especially true when using the telephone - as most people would not want to mislead them to believe they are getting a request from a Colonel and not a Lt Colonel.   In correspondence, it is ok to refer to Lt Cols as Colonels, after you have first identified them as a Lt Col.

Sorry, but you are incorrect. Read a book called "The Armed Forces Officer."  It was put out by DoD for many years (may be out of print).  Failing that, try "The Air Officer's Guide."

There's a great deal of tradition behind titles of address.  Don't try to usurp tradition with fads.  I'll match my 41 years with your (fill in the blank).

GC

[Gunner C]

This thread is not about 'greetings'.   It's about respect.  Usually people give it out freely until you don't earn it anymore.

That is exactly what it is about!  You get it!

A title of address isn't something that you hit someone over the head with.  If rank/grades/whatever shouldn't be used in CAP, then let's get rid of it, stop military stuff like saluting, get rid of all uniforms except for polo shirts and VSAF, and just go as "Bubba."

But if we do, we jettison a huge part of our traditions and heritage.  I think that would be both a mistake and a shame.

I'll tell you, the last time I was with some Marine officers and NCOs, I told them to just call me "Gunner."  They replied "yessir" and continued with addressing me as "sir."  Now, who was being professional here?

GC

Tags - MIKE

[DogCollar]

As long as a greeting doesn't confuse someone else or misrepresent (intentionally or not) then using rank is okay.  Let me illustrate my meaning about possible confusion:

I work as a hospital chaplain.  In our facility we have many pharmacists who have earned the degree doctor of pharmacology.  We have other employees who have earned Ph.D.'s and other doctoral level degrees.  However, in this facility, unless you an M.D. after your name, you will not be called "doctor."  This isn't to denigrate or disrespect those who have earned doctoral degrees other than the M.D.  Rather, it is so there is no confusion among patients and their families about credentials.

There may be occasions where introducing ourselves by rank could be confusing for some people.  I think this can mostly be avoided by always adding Civil Air Patrol.  Such as "hello, I'm Captain Bill Boldin from the Virginia Wing-Civil Air Patrol."  (In reality, I would never use my rank, as I am a Chaplain, ans would introduce myself as a Chaplain.)

[brasda91]

That is exactly what it is about!  You get it!

A title of address isn't something that you hit someone over the head with.  If rank/grades/whatever shouldn't be used in CAP, then let's get rid of it, stop military stuff like saluting, get rid of all uniforms except for polo shirts and VSAF, and just go as "Bubba."

But if we do, we jettison a huge part of our traditions and heritage.  I think that would be both a mistake and a shame.

I'll tell you, the last time I was with some Marine officers and NCOs, I told them to just call me "Gunner."  They replied "yessir" and continued with addressing me as "sir."  Now, who was being professional here?

GC

No, this thread is about greetings.  Within the organization I expect everyone to use the proper titles.

What I'm talking about is interacting with members on active duty if your squadron meets in an armory or reserve unit.  If I have to call the NG guys, I don't want them to think I'm "throwing my weight around" by using my grade.  I don't know the NG guys enough to say "Hey this is so and so from CAP".  They're not going to know that I'm the squadron commander and if I'm needing something, that it is ok to assist me.

[RogueLeader]

No, this thread is about greetings.  Within the organization I expect everyone to use the proper titles.

What I'm talking about is interacting with members on active duty if your squadron meets in an armory or reserve unit.  If I have to call the NG guys, I don't want them to think I'm "throwing my weight around" by using my grade.  I don't know the NG guys enough to say "Hey this is so and so from CAP".  They're not going to know that I'm the squadron commander and if I'm needing something, that it is ok to assist me.

When I was living in Iowa, we met at the NG armory, and when dealing with the folks there, they addressed us by our Ranks and us to them.  There was no throwing "weight" around.  It is the proper Title of address. 

When calling people on Post for CAP business, I use the following:  Hello, I'm 1st. LT Seng, Civil Air Patrol. . . . Nobody ever thought that I was doing anything improper.  They either got me the information that I needed, or told me where I could get it.

[jimmydeanno]

I expect everyone to use the proper titles.

You're not allowed to set expectations, unless it's a hard and fast requirement people won't follow it...   

[Short Field]

Sorry, but you are incorrect. Read a book called "The Armed Forces Officer."  It was put out by DoD for many years (may be out of print).  Failing that, try "The Air Officer's Guide."

There's a great deal of tradition behind titles of address.  Don't try to usurp tradition with fads.  I'll match my 41 years with your (fill in the blank).

Wow!  I am impressed.  Your 41 years sures beats my 28 years on active duty - but then I did take early retirement.   How did you stay in so long?  I vaguely remember the Air Officer's Gude and probably have a copy someplace, probably buried in with the other books left over from SOS, ACSC, AFSC, and AWC.   

I can tell you I have chewed out more than one RM officer (a few pompish Lt Commanders and Lt Colonels come to mind) that made appontments with my XO to see me over the phone using their "form of address" instead of their RANK in order to get squeezed into my schedule.   One tradition most RM Officers follow is to correctly identify themselfs to other people.    And that is what we are talking about here, how to identify yourself to someone else.

[DeputyDog]

I'll tell you, the last time I was with some Marine officers and NCOs, I told them to just call me "Gunner."  They replied "yessir" and continued with addressing me as "sir."  Now, who was being professional here?

You have to be careful about that kind of thing. Those Marines could have taken offense to you asking them to call you "Gunner".

A "Gunner" is an actual title of address in the Marines, reserved for Marine Warrant Officers serving as Infantry Weapons Officers (i.e. very respected....Marines & weapons kind of go hand-in-hand ). Instead of being addressed or referred to as "Chief Warrant Officer Doe", they are "Gunner Doe". To me, they were "Sir".

[JarakMaldon]

I can honestly say that I've never heard any LT use their "first" or "second" prefix in any situation.  Though, a lieutenant is a lieutenant, I would suppose.

[Major Carrales]

Wow, there's a lot of "self-CAP Hate" in this thread. 

May I take the time to remind you all that you are officers in the Civil Air Patrol and when working in the capacity of the Civil Air Patrol you can/should be addressed by your Civil Air Patrol Rank.  That is what professionalism in CAP means.

When you interact with the Military (there is no "REAL Military," only a Military; to use the former insinuates that were are somehow FAKE.  We are not part of the Military, We are CAP.  Nothing less, nothing more) it is not out of line to use your CAP Rank, provided you add that you are a CAP Officer in ways that have been already listed here.

By that tolken, if some of you insist that CAP rank is only to be used internally in CAP, then We should extend that same standard to Officers and Enlisted men of the Military when they interact in Civilian Affairs.  Newspapers would/should properly refer to General Petraeus, as Mr. David Petraeus a Major General in the US Army.

However, since he is working in his capacity as an Army General we refer to him as General Petraeus.  If you are working on half of CAP, there is no shame in using your rank.

[RiverAux]

I haven't had a lot of occassion to call the military as part of my CAP duties, but I do often call other civilians on CAP business and I haven't been terribly consistent in how I introduce myself in those situations.

When I have called the military I think I have mostly used my rank and "with the Civil Air Patrol" and my position.  Mostly because I think it helps them "place" me in their mind and since they're familiar with the terminology.  And since I'm definetely showing them the courtesy of using their rank I figure its fair to give them the option of using mine, though I wouldn't dream of making a deal out of it if they chose not too. 

For what its worth, in my life as a CG Auxie I have regular interaction with the active duty CG, but since the CG Aux doesn't have ranks, this exact issue hasn't come up.  However, on their own, many of the Coasties address me as "Mister".  Obviously, this is a correct polite form of address for a civilian (even in the CG Aux), however, in the naval tradition "Mister" is often used to address junior officers.  That being the case, I have asked them not to use it.  Also, I'm still not quite old enough to feel comfortable with young people calling me Mr -- maybe in a few more years....

[mikeylikey]

^ "Mister" is actually the correct title to use for a guy who is over the age of 18.  This country has somehow moved away from common courtesy, and it is becoming somewhat disturbing. 

Why would you tell someone not to call you "mister whatever"?

As far as titles go, there is no reason not to say this is "LT blow" when calling someone in the military.  When being introduced to a military member, use of CAP titles are OK to be used. 

I despise everyone who goes out of their way to walk up to members of the Armed Forces and say "oh no need to salute me, no need to call me Lt Col.  Why because I have had CAP members to that to me when approached on post/base, and to me that makes me think  "this guy doesn't even respect himself" or his achievements.  THEN I introduce myself as a brother CAP member and I see the shift in their thinking the instant they realize "wow, I embarrassed myself". 

 

[RiverAux]

^ "Mister" is actually the correct title to use for a guy who is over the age of 18.  This country has somehow moved away from common courtesy, and it is becoming somewhat disturbing. 

Why would you tell someone not to call you "mister whatever"?

Because in the CG, "Mister" is a proper form of address to CG officers all the way up to Lt. Commander and since CG Auxies have no form of rank at all, it implies I have more authority than I do since I would be wearing a CG uniform.  If I was there in civilian clothes as a civilian not in any way associated with the CG, this would be fine with me. 

Now, say I had my CAP hat on and for some reason was interacting with the Coasties, I would be totally ok with them using "Mr" since that would be an appropriate "naval" alternative to my CAP rank of Major.

[Tubacap]

^ Never knew that.  Good to know.

[SamFranklin]

I can tell you I have chewed out more than one RM officer (a few pompish Lt Commanders and Lt Colonels come to mind) that made appointments with my XO to see me over the phone using their "form of address" instead of their RANK in order to get squeezed into my schedule.   One tradition most RM Officers follow is to correctly identify themselfs to other people.    And that is what we are talking about here, how to identify yourself to someone else.

Yup. Attack of the "telephone colonels."  Great point.

[brasda91]

There have been some very good points mentioned here.  I'm not ashamed of my CAP grade.  I have been there/done that and I feel I have earned my grade and don't mind using it.  It's just when I go over to the armory and talk with the NG guys and they are being polite by saying "Sir", I don't feel worthy of the courtesy.  I've been on active duty and the NG as an enlisted member.  I know the respect you give to officers on active duty/reserve/guard.  I guess it's my respect of them because of the sacrifices they are making for us, that makes me feel unworthy of the "Sir".

[mynetdude]

I have never been enlisted, nor could I legally.  I like earning my grade, but it doesn't feel a whole lot of worth sure spending 6 months TIG to get to 2nd Lt and then spending 12 months TIG to get 1st Lt (which I will be in April).

It would be different if I earned it via the RM it would be worth something to me. I'm not saying that my grade isn't worth anything I'm saying it has a different worth than it would have for someone who enlisted/served time as an officer.

I am called Lieutenant because that is what everybody sees on my shoulder, especially cadets.  If these things didn't mean anything why are we screaming "Ten Hut!" everytime I walk into the room (the first time they did it when I walked in was a bit embarrassing for me but quite fun).

When I went to my first encampment at the Oregon Military Academy we had NCOs who did our cooking for us (awesome bunch of guys too!) I have totally no military experience and my first year+ (almost 2 years) has been an awesome military learning experience (that hasn't stopped yet!).

One day out on the black top in front of the OMA building, a food service truck driver was talking to one of the NCOs outside and I knew that the truck driver would be wanting to manuever his truck while I had two flights of cadets outside marching in circles... so naturally to make sure I understood and the driver was aware (of course he knew! Who wouldn't when you can hear the cadets singing the cadet oath?)

Anyway... I approached the NCO and he stood at attention and called me "Sir" and I just replied that I had a question for the truck driver and then after I got my answer I told the NCO to "carry on" (I don't know if that was appropriate) but I had a bit of fun there not to be demeaning or anything to the NCO but having no prior military experience gave me a small glimpse of what/how the real military would do and they see you wearing THEIR uniform! (regardless of what color your epaulettes are!)

I remember working communications from Medford on the Steve Fossett search when we had an aircraft airborne enroute to the search area, I had to call the ICP every 30 minutes to relay position reports from the aircraft to whoever answered the phone on that end.  The first time I called in, I stated my grade my full name and where I was from and each subsequent call I made if it was the same person I just said that "This is Lt Mason calling to report in CAPFlightXX's position reports" I believe I got a call from one of the Majors at the ICP and I addressed her as Ma'am naturally.

We have a LtCol here in ORWG is really uppity about her grade and about how we address her and especially cadets.  I don't see anything wrong with being so uppity about it, we are civilians we are to uphold our professionalism, etc.  She doesn't like it when anybody calls her by her first name AND she introduces herself to the parents as LtCol XXX only she doesn't give them her first name (although when she gives out her business card it has her full name).

She came to visit our squadron one night, one of the cadets asked her what her first name was and her response was simply "LtCol XX" and the whole squadron laughed because of how the question was asked and how she responded in a non demeaning way.

Although I do have to say this... in informal communication with other CAP members within my squadron or those whom I know well I will call them by first name unless they ask me not to.  Everybody in our squadron go by first name except cadets unless like I said under formal situations where first names would be unprofessional.

So working internally with grade isn't any different than working with grade externally I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes I don't have enough experience to see that.  I would just have to play it out as the situation goes, if it warrants addressing by the full name, grade whatever the situation deems appropriate will predict how/what should be done.

[notaNCO forever]

I don't have a problem with SM's calling eachother by their first name as long as it's only in an informal situation and theirs only SM's and senior cadets around.