In defense of wannabes

[RiverAux]

Often on CAPTalk I see references to "wannabes".  At the basic level most folks would probably define the term to mean people who really wanted to be in the military but never served.  They might not have served for a variety of reasons including things such as medical conditions, or perhaps the urge to serve didn't strike them until they were too old.  Some folks include prior military service people who join in order to recapture their glory days as wannabes. 

Some uncharitable folks would point out that maybe some didn't serve because of pschyological problems or perhaps they wanted to and could have served when young, but decided other things were more important. 

But, in general, wannabes are like everyone who joins CAP in that they want to serve their country in some capacity though they are more interested in the military aspects of the organization. 

Again, at the basic level, this does no harm to the organization.  One could say that our original coastal patrol pilots were wannabes.  They wanted to serve, but CAP was the only outlet given their age or medical condition. 

Also, a significant number of our cadets are wannabes.  They do want to join the military and want to learn what aspects of military life that they can from CAP.  I was certainly in that group as a cadet.  If its wrong for a senior to be a wannabe, then it is wrong for the cadets to be as well. 

Some CAPTalkers focus in on a specific sub-group of wannabes who are "in it for the bling".  Why does it matter to CAP one way or another if some members are only interested in ribbon and rank?  They have to jump through the same exact hoops as those who don't care about either in order to get them.  Does it hurt anyone if they secretely like all the shiny badges and ribbons on their service dress coat?  Do you care if they spend every evening polishing their IC badge? 

The folks who throw "in it for the bling" charges out are also the ones who seem to look down on anyone who wants to wear the military uniform.  That particular aspect of wannabe-ism has been discussed in other threads, so I won't belabor it here. 

The wannabe title is also thrown at those who some think excessively emphasize military customs and courtesy's and perhaps take their rank a little too seriously.  But, I'm not sure that this is actually a "wannabe" issue.  Some people when they get a little bit of authority go nuts and let it go to their head.  You don't have to be interested in the military aspects of CAP for this to happen.  The head of the state American Legion could just as easily act that way as a CAP "Wing King". 

Another thing that gets lumped in with the wannabe charge is non-performance of duties.  In particular the "in it for the bling" people who stop doing the job once they get the bling.  In the example above this would be the guy who really, really wants the IC badge and once he gets it, no longer really wants to do anything.  The thing is that this is something that you really can't prove.  Maybe the new IC has been a hard-charging CAP member for 5 years and just got burned out by the time he got his IC badge.  Maybe that new Lt. Col. has a sick relative he isn't telling anyone about and has to cut back on CAP time and just pay dues for a while. 

When it comes right down to it, we don't know what people's motivations are and it doesn't really matter anyway.  If someone wants to be a CAP mission pilot just so they can wear an AF flightsuit and wings, thats fine by me.  They don't get to wear the suit, unless they're flying and if they're flying they're doing something useful for CAP. 

[JAFO78]

Oh, Oh, (jumping up and down) I'm a wannabe. (jumping up and down).

Seriously, I am a wannabe, I wannabe able to help my country. I am too old to join the military. I did have the chance out of high school, but it did not work out. I know there are other organizations out there I could join, but as a former member of CAP I still feel a connection to CAP.

At this time the nearest squadron to me is over a hour drive, mostly due to traffic around the Orlando area. I have decided to rejoin as a National Patron, if it is still available.

My goal is to start a flight or squadron in Kissimmee, Florida. My youngest son is in Navy Sea Cadets, and they have 130 kids enrolled, at his middle school. I feel that there is a need for a CAP program here.

[mikeylikey]

Wasn't there a song in the early ninetees, "I wannabe a wannabe"?

[Walkman]

I'm in the "wanted to serve but couldn't" category. A combination of medical and family issues prevent me from serving. The last time I tried I was turned down for the Coast Guard Reserves.

One the main reasons I joined CAP was to be affiliated with the armed forces in some way. Until I found CAP, I thought I'd never have the opportunity to do anything like this to serve the country.

I'll admit to being a "wannabe", but I'm working hard to not be someone that's a joke.

Thanks River.

[Major Carrales]

Also, do not confuse "wannabe" and "poser/pretenderism" with peope merely serious about truely building CAP.

There are far to many of us with the opposite attitude...the one that has CAP as an "inferiority complex." 

Fact is, and I will write it again for the likely 20th time...

"Be more proud of what you are than ashamed of what you are not!"

We will not be a professional organization until we accept the fact that we have intrinsic worth and start to act like a professional organization.  We are not the USAF, many parallels do not work...we are CAP, and have been since 1942 (1941 for the rest of the Non-CORPUS CHRISTI audience) .

If we continue to look at this from the position of "we are inferior" and "the USAF is would not do it like this so it must be wrong," then we will never...ever...have any pride in the difference between the USAF and CAP. 

The proper position to take, in mu opinion is, to honor USAF customs and proceudres that apply the most as well as honor those things we must do as part of the reality that is the Civil Air Patrol.  Don't fight over uniforms or demand strange classifications merely because the USAF has them, but rather see how we can best be an effective CAP.   One does not have to be the hammer , or have the hammer be like them, to drive in a nail, merely they must have a reliable hammer in one's hand.  We are that hammer.

[RiverAux]

we are CAP, and have been since 1942.

1941

[Major Carrales]

we are CAP, and have been since 1942.

1941

Sorry, I was going from my History of Corpus Chrsiti's CAP. 

[flyguy06]

I have always said that one of he main reasons I joined CAP was because I always wanted to be a military pilot. I couldnt due to my vision. I did join the military in a non aviation job, but the yearning to be a military ppilot has always been there.

So for me, CAP is the closets I will ever get to being a military pilot, so I look at it that way, so in a way I am a wannabe. I always wear flightsuits when I fly. I never wear that blue shirt thingy. I try to do things by the book and opspecs. I am eventually going to be a stan eval officer.

[Short Field]

We are not the USAF, many parallels do not work...we are CAP, and have been since 1942 (1941 for the rest of the Non-CORPUS CHRISTI audience) .

True words.

I joined CAP because it offered a good mission and looked like more fun than other volunteer organizaitons.  I like what CAP does and like supporting the mission.  If I had wanted a more military or paramilitary organization, I would have looked for one and joined it.    CAP is CAP.

[Stonewall]

My idea of a wannabe, and I've seen many like this in CAP, is the dude who shows up at the SAR-EX in a boonie cap, survival knife upside down on his LBE strap, and black beret hanging out of his cargo pocket.  Yes! I have seen this guy.

My idea of a wannabe, and I've seen this in CAP, is the guy who shows up barking orders like a seen out of Full Metal Jacket.  Yes!  I have seen this guy.

My idea of a wannabe, and I've seen this in CAP, is the guy who shows up as a scanner trainee in aviator shades, dog tags looped around his collar and tucked in, aviator scarf and helmet bag with nothing in it.  Yes!  I have seen this guy.

My idea of a wannabe, and I've seen this in CAP, is the guy who shows up with a sniper patch on his BDU pocket because "he earned it in the Marine Corps".  Yes!  I have seen this guy.

My idea of a wannabe, and I've seen this in CAP, is the guy with advanced first aid training who shows up with a large trauma kit, star of life on his car, tourniquet hanging off his LBE, drop leg "blow out kit", bandage (EMT) sheers dangling off a D-ring and scanner taped to the other LBE strap.  Yes!  I've seen this guy.

My idea of a wannabe, and I've seen this in CAP, is the guy that shows up in civilian clothes to a meeting, spouting off all this special operations, black ops, secret squirrel, Agent Orange stuff that hasn't ever sat inside a C-130.  Yes!  I've seen this guy.

My idea of a wannabe, ALL CADETS!  Yep, I said it, all cadets.  If they weren't, I'd be worried.  Actually, I've met several that don't seem to have any dreams, let alone goals.  Anyway, every cadet, as far as I'm concerned is a "wannabe".  Who cares about the cadets?  They should be wannabes!!!!  They should day dream about being something great.  Something of a legendary figure.  A doctor, blue angel pilot, ranger, PJ, astronaut, paramedic, hero.  

But it's not the cadets I concern myself with when we talk about wannabes.  As far as I'm concerned, and by no means am I the authority, but I think it's complete cool to be ate up with this stuff.  It's cool to be in_to_it.  Going on a mission can give you a rush.  Going wheels-up for a distress beacon and hearing that WHOOP WHOOP as soon as you clear the tree line.  As I have said before, JUST BE CAP.  I mean, when I see a 40 year old show up with a beret, or a 30-something show up with enough medical equipment to conduct field surgery, yet they only have basic first aid, I worry about their ability to make decisions, period.  Not just decisions that may affect young people or during times of stress, but run of the mill decisions.

Like ribbons, badges, and gear?  Fine.  But be practical.  Make good decisions.  Don't let the physical aspect of the program become more important than the intangible things, like leadership by example.

Oh, and when I speak of wannabes, I'm not talking solely about non-military veterans.  What's worse is coming across a REMF guy who pushed papers or turned a wrench, showing up acting like a drill sergeant, some snake eating ninja, or the be all - end all to your squadron's need for military leadership.  Yes, these folks can be worse than anyone out there.  Even something as drill and ceremonies.  It's not like the whole military practices D&C regularly after basic training.  So if some dude that served a 4 year enlistment as a chaplains assistant shows up saying that he'll bring your drill team to national, watch him like a hawk.  NOTE: this is not a slam on non-combat MOS's or AFSC, I'm just saying, I've met a ton of non-combat job types who come across as snake eating woodsmen.

And of course, there is the guy that shows up wearing a ton of bling he didn't earn.  That's a wannabe.  A wannabe IS NOT the CAP senior member wearing 16 CAP ribbons correctly who earned them.  No, it's the guy wearing the crapola that he didn't earn who is the wannabe.

Like I said, nothing wrong with being motivated as long as you can recognize the difference between real life and fantasy.  As long as you understand that you are not a Tier 1 SOCOM asset, or that you really do not need a kaybar knife taped upside down on your LBE.  And no, it is not cool to deck your Ford Focus out with $2,500 worth of emergency lights and sirens.

[Eclipse]

It's cool to be in_to_it.  Going on a mission can give you a rush.  Going wheels-up for a distress beacon and hearing that WHOOP WHOOP as soon as you clear the tree line.  As I have said before, JUST BE CAP.

[darn], well said.  Too often those of us who enjoy it for what it is get grief because we don't take fire while doing it.

Some of the "lamest" CAP stuff is cooler than what most people do with their free time.

[flyguy06]

We are not the USAF, many parallels do not work...we are CAP, and have been since 1942 (1941 for the rest of the Non-CORPUS CHRISTI audience) .

True words.

I joined CAP because it offered a good mission and looked like more fun than other volunteer organizaitons.  I like what CAP does and like supporting the mission.  If I had wanted a more military or paramilitary organization, I would have looked for one and joined it.    CAP is CAP.

I wanted to join the USAF and be a pilot but couldnt because of my vision

[ddelaney103]

Like I said, nothing wrong with being motivated as long as you can recognize the difference between real life and fantasy.  As long as you understand that you are not a Tier 1 SOCOM asset, or that you really do not need a kaybar knife taped upside down on your LBE.  And no, it is not cool to deck your Ford Focus out with $2,500 worth of emergency lights and sirens.

Um, I gotta go and rewrite my Christmas list now...

[mikeylikey]

We are not the USAF, many parallels do not work...we are CAP, and have been since 1942 (1941 for the rest of the Non-CORPUS CHRISTI audience) .

True words.

I joined CAP because it offered a good mission and looked like more fun than other volunteer organizations.  I like what CAP does and like supporting the mission.  If I had wanted a more military or paramilitary organization, I would have looked for one and joined it.    CAP is CAP.

I wanted to join the USAF and be a pilot but couldn't because of my vision

So you became an Officer in the Army.  Well my friend, that is exactly the same story here.  I wanted to be a pilot, but navigator would have been the closest to it, and that was not for me.  Then the Army had me talked into flying for them (just not flying as the pilot in charge).  So I said well lets move on, and I now have a rewarding Field artillery Career.  Besides, whats better than blowing crap up 3 to 7 miles away?  I get to be a technical expert, and say that I attended one of the most difficult (physical and technical) and longest Officer BASIC Courses in the Army.  Now, Officer Advanced is not nearly as long, but close.  Plus, I am a "King of Battle", and Fort Sill is by far one of the best military posts in the continental US.  At least thats what the sign there says "Best military installation-1988"

[flyguy06]

My idea of a wannabe, and I've seen many like this in CAP, is the dude who shows up at the SAR-EX in a boonie cap, survival knife upside down on his LBE strap, and black beret hanging out of his cargo pocket.  Yes! I have seen this guy.

My idea of a wannabe, and I've seen this in CAP, is the guy who shows up barking orders like a seen out of Full Metal Jacket.  Yes!  I have seen this guy.

My idea of a wannabe, and I've seen this in CAP, is the guy who shows up as a scanner trainee in aviator shades, dog tags looped around his collar and tucked in, aviator scarf and helmet bag with nothing in it.  Yes!  I have seen this guy.

My idea of a wannabe, and I've seen this in CAP, is the guy who shows up with a sniper patch on his BDU pocket because "he earned it in the Marine Corps".  Yes!  I have seen this guy.

My idea of a wannabe, and I've seen this in CAP, is the guy with advanced first aid training who shows up with a large trauma kit, star of life on his car, tourniquet hanging off his LBE, drop leg "blow out kit", bandage (EMT) sheers dangling off a D-ring and scanner taped to the other LBE strap.  Yes!  I've seen this guy.

My idea of a wannabe, and I've seen this in CAP, is the guy that shows up in civilian clothes to a meeting, spouting off all this special operations, black ops, secret squirrel, Agent Orange stuff that hasn't ever sat inside a C-130.  Yes!  I've seen this guy.

My idea of a wannabe, ALL CADETS!  Yep, I said it, all cadets.  If they weren't, I'd be worried.  Actually, I've met several that don't seem to have any dreams, let alone goals.  Anyway, every cadet, as far as I'm concerned is a "wannabe".  Who cares about the cadets?  They should be wannabes!!!!  They should day dream about being something great.  Something of a legendary figure.  A doctor, blue angel pilot, ranger, PJ, astronaut, paramedic, hero.  

But it's not the cadets I concern myself with when we talk about wannabes.  As far as I'm concerned, and by no means am I the authority, but I think it's complete cool to be ate up with this stuff.  It's cool to be in_to_it.  Going on a mission can give you a rush.  Going wheels-up for a distress beacon and hearing that WHOOP WHOOP as soon as you clear the tree line.  As I have said before, JUST BE CAP.  I mean, when I see a 40 year old show up with a beret, or a 30-something show up with enough medical equipment to conduct field surgery, yet they only have basic first aid, I worry about their ability to make decisions, period.  Not just decisions that may affect young people or during times of stress, but run of the mill decisions.

Like ribbons, badges, and gear?  Fine.  But be practical.  Make good decisions.  Don't let the physical aspect of the program become more important than the intangible things, like leadership by example.

Oh, and when I speak of wannabes, I'm not talking solely about non-military veterans.  What's worse is coming across a REMF guy who pushed papers or turned a wrench, showing up acting like a drill sergeant, some snake eating ninja, or the be all - end all to your squadron's need for military leadership.  Yes, these folks can be worse than anyone out there.  Even something as drill and ceremonies.  It's not like the whole military practices D&C regularly after basic training.  So if some dude that served a 4 year enlistment as a chaplains assistant shows up saying that he'll bring your drill team to national, watch him like a hawk.  NOTE: this is not a slam on non-combat MOS's or AFSC, I'm just saying, I've met a ton of non-combat job types who come across as snake eating woodsmen.

And of course, there is the guy that shows up wearing a ton of bling he didn't earn.  That's a wannabe.  A wannabe IS NOT the CAP senior member wearing 16 CAP ribbons correctly who earned them.  No, it's the guy wearing the crapola that he didn't earn who is the wannabe.

Like I said, nothing wrong with being motivated as long as you can recognize the difference between real life and fantasy.  As long as you understand that you are not a Tier 1 SOCOM asset, or that you really do not need a kaybar knife taped upside down on your LBE.  And no, it is not cool to deck your Ford Focus out with $2,500 worth of emergency lights and sirens.

Bravo. I have seen these guys as well.

But about your statement about non combat MOS folks acting like Drill Sergeants. Remember each MOS has rill Sergeants in that MOS. I am a grunt LT but I realize that ther eare 63B Drills, 71L Drills' and 92A Drill Sergeants as well. not just 11B (although that the only real MOS) 

[JohnKachenmeister]

Somebody at Fort Sill stole that sign.  It belongs in front of Ft. Sam Houston.  Please make sure it is returned.

[flyguy06]

We are not the USAF, many parallels do not work...we are CAP, and have been since 1942 (1941 for the rest of the Non-CORPUS CHRISTI audience) .

True words.

I joined CAP because it offered a good mission and looked like more fun than other volunteer organizations.  I like what CAP does and like supporting the mission.  If I had wanted a more military or paramilitary organization, I would have looked for one and joined it.    CAP is CAP.

I wanted to join the USAF and be a pilot but couldn't because of my vision

So you became an Officer in the Army.  Well my friend, that is exactly the same story here.  I wanted to be a pilot, but navigator would have been the closest to it, and that was not for me.  Then the Army had me talked into flying for them (just not flying as the pilot in charge).  So I said well lets move on, and I now have a rewarding Field artillery Career.  Besides, whats better than blowing crap up 3 to 7 miles away?  I get to be a technical expert, and say that I attended one of the most difficult (physical and technical) and longest Officer BASIC Courses in the Army.  Now, Officer Advanced is not nearly as long, but close.  Plus, I am a "King of Battle", and Fort Sill is by far one of the best military posts in the continental US.  At least thats what the sign there says "Best military installation-1988"

For me, since I couldnt fly inthe military period, I had went to an Army military college and isaw al the upperclassmen waling around with Airborne wings and being the young impressionable 18 year old I was, I decided to do that. I knew I wanted to be a high ranking officer and I had always heard thatin order to make General youhad to be combat arms. So I went into the Infantry. However now atthe age of 39, i am tired of the Infantry and am thinking of branch transferring to Quartermaster. Plus I have my civilian career to focus on

[mikeylikey]

Somebody at Fort Sill stole that sign.  It belongs in front of Ft. Sam Houston.  Please make sure it is returned.

Well Sir, many trips to Sam Houston to visit the girlfriend when we were both Lt's going through our OBC's!  I have to say the San Antonio experience was AWESOME!  I would much rather been at FSH than SILL!  In fact, I almost married that woman so that I could live there on post with her.  But things work out for varied reasons.  

I am debating where I will preference my next assignment.  I would love to go to West Point, but would not mind a stint in Texas or Oklahoma again.  But if things go right, it may be back to the -Stan or raq for this guy after the ROTC duty is done.

[mikeylikey]

We are not the USAF, many parallels do not work...we are CAP, and have been since 1942 (1941 for the rest of the Non-CORPUS CHRISTI audience) .

True words.

I joined CAP because it offered a good mission and looked like more fun than other volunteer organizations.  I like what CAP does and like supporting the mission.  If I had wanted a more military or paramilitary organization, I would have looked for one and joined it.    CAP is CAP.

I wanted to join the USAF and be a pilot but couldn't because of my vision

So you became an Officer in the Army.  Well my friend, that is exactly the same story here.  I wanted to be a pilot, but navigator would have been the closest to it, and that was not for me.  Then the Army had me talked into flying for them (just not flying as the pilot in charge).  So I said well lets move on, and I now have a rewarding Field artillery Career.  Besides, whats better than blowing crap up 3 to 7 miles away?  I get to be a technical expert, and say that I attended one of the most difficult (physical and technical) and longest Officer BASIC Courses in the Army.  Now, Officer Advanced is not nearly as long, but close.  Plus, I am a "King of Battle", and Fort Sill is by far one of the best military posts in the continental US.  At least thats what the sign there says "Best military installation-1988"

For me, since I couldnt fly inthe military period, I had went to an Army military college and isaw al the upperclassmen waling around with Airborne wings and being the young impressionable 18 year old I was, I decided to do that. I knew I wanted to be a high ranking officer and I had always heard thatin order to make General youhad to be combat arms. So I went into the Infantry. However now atthe age of 39, i am tired of the Infantry and am thinking of branch transferring to Quartermaster. Plus I have my civilian career to focus on

NOOOO!  The new Officer Branch of Logistics just opened up.  That is where you want to go.  That will produce more LTC's and COL's than the other branches, because they will be the ones running the Army.  They are taking Quartermaster, Transpo and Ordinance.  Basically you will be the Officer everyone wants around and comes to for help. 

However you cant Branch Transfer to it until you make CPT or CPT (P).

[ddelaney103]

Stonewall has a comprehensive list, but there are a few types of wannabes that he missed.  These are the types you see usually on-line.  They're rare on CAPTalk: if you wanted to see them in their glory you had to be on Auxiliary Power back in the day.

Forum wannabes spent a lot of time dreaming up ways of getting more legitimacy.  Again, "just being CAP" wasn't enough.  They would want to get commissions or status similar to the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve (Training) officers used by Air Training Corps in the UK.  It was a deep seated need for recognition of how awesome they were.

A variant on this is the "tightening standards" crowd.  Now, there's nothing wrong with having standards and enforcing them.  However, the wannabe strain of this would come in two flavors.  

The first type was marked by a desire to adopt more military standards, such as hewing more closely to AF PME standards.  There was often an undercurrent of "if we act more like the AF, they'll have to respect us!"

The second one was adoption of a standard of making officership or grade harder to get.  Again, not a bad idea.  The mark of the wannabe was the desire to exclude other people from officership or grade by recommending stuff he had (like a college degree or AF PME) as the gatekeeper to keep out the riff-raff.

In summary, there is nothing wrong in standards or in improving our organization.  However, unless a person can accept and approve of what they actually are, wannabe-ism will continue to plague them, and us.

[flyguy06]

We are not the USAF, many parallels do not work...we are CAP, and have been since 1942 (1941 for the rest of the Non-CORPUS CHRISTI audience) .

True words.

I joined CAP because it offered a good mission and looked like more fun than other volunteer organizations.  I like what CAP does and like supporting the mission.  If I had wanted a more military or paramilitary organization, I would have looked for one and joined it.    CAP is CAP.

I wanted to join the USAF and be a pilot but couldn't because of my vision

So you became an Officer in the Army.  Well my friend, that is exactly the same story here.  I wanted to be a pilot, but navigator would have been the closest to it, and that was not for me.  Then the Army had me talked into flying for them (just not flying as the pilot in charge).  So I said well lets move on, and I now have a rewarding Field artillery Career.  Besides, whats better than blowing crap up 3 to 7 miles away?  I get to be a technical expert, and say that I attended one of the most difficult (physical and technical) and longest Officer BASIC Courses in the Army.  Now, Officer Advanced is not nearly as long, but close.  Plus, I am a "King of Battle", and Fort Sill is by far one of the best military posts in the continental US.  At least thats what the sign there says "Best military installation-1988"

For me, since I couldnt fly inthe military period, I had went to an Army military college and isaw al the upperclassmen waling around with Airborne wings and being the young impressionable 18 year old I was, I decided to do that. I knew I wanted to be a high ranking officer and I had always heard thatin order to make General youhad to be combat arms. So I went into the Infantry. However now atthe age of 39, i am tired of the Infantry and am thinking of branch transferring to Quartermaster. Plus I have my civilian career to focus on

NOOOO!  The new Officer Branch of Logistics just opened up.  That is where you want to go.  That will produce more LTC's and COL's than the other branches, because they will be the ones running the Army.  They are taking Quartermaster, Transpo and Ordinance.  Basically you will be the Officer everyone wants around and comes to for help. 

However you cant Branch Transfer to it until you make CPT or CPT (P).

.
The Guard is differant. Plus I will be a Captain in a few months. In the Guard you canbranch transfer whenever you want. Just find a unit and go toeither the transiton course or the Captains Career Course. I heard they were going tobe doing something with Logistics I just wasnt sure what. Thanks for the heads up.

[Dragoon]

Being enthusiastic about CAP is great.

Being enthusiastic about being on the Air Force Team is great.

Where things get bad is when someone wants to use CAP to get others to think they're cool.  Not for what they actually DO in CAP, but for what they hope people will THINK that they do.

Folks who want salutes from other members, but don't actually want the responsibility of being in charge.
Folks who want to raise the quality bar just high enough to exclude everyone below themselves.
Folks who secretly hope someone will mistake them for warriors.


We all have a Walter Mitty factor - it's human nature.  But too much of it causes problems.  It makes CAP too much about "me" and not enough about "us."

That's the "wannabee" that worries me.

[Trung Si Ma]

[...and Fort Sill is by far one of the best military posts in the continental US.  At least thats what the sign there says "Best military installation-1988"

And 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996.

Don, retired 13F4P plus some really cool - but meaningless - ASI's

[Trung Si Ma]

...thinking of branch transferring to Quartermaster. Plus I have my civilian career to focus on

Just stay out of the Acquisition Corps - it really limits your post retirement options.

[mikeylikey]

^ That branch is being merged with Transportation and Ordinance to for the new Logistics branch.  Saying your a logistician will actually get you better job offers than saying "I was infantry". 

I actually thought about jumping ship and branch transferring to Logistics, but I have way too much fun in the Artillery.

[flyguy06]

...thinking of branch transferring to Quartermaster. Plus I have my civilian career to focus on

Just stay out of the Acquisition Corps - it really limits your post retirement options.

I'm in the Guard. I dont have post retirement options. The Guard doesnt drill on Army Posts

[Trung Si Ma]

...thinking of branch transferring to Quartermaster. Plus I have my civilian career to focus on

Just stay out of the Acquisition Corps - it really limits your post retirement options.

I'm in the Guard. I dont have post retirement options. The Guard doesnt drill on Army Posts

Acquisition Corps membership effects who you can work for when you leave the service (post retirement), but I don't know if the NG's even have AQ slots.  I know that the USAR does (and it effects their non-USAR careers), but not sure about the NG.

[riffraff]

The second one was adoption of a standard of making officership or grade harder to get.  Again, not a bad idea.  The mark of the wannabe was the desire to exclude other people from officership or grade by recommending stuff he had (like a college degree or AF PME) as the gatekeeper to keep out the riff-raff.

<----------------   Wow! I've only been here a few months and the wannabe's are already trying to get rid of me!

[O-Rex]

"Wannabe" is a state of mind, and not necessarily a demographic.

I am former military who when he got out in 1990 swore he'd never wear a uniform again: I call it my "Beatles post break-up period:" comparing it to alot of rock band members who grew up in a whirlwind of this "thing" that was bigger than themselves, and when it wound down, wanted desparately to shake off their old persona and reinvent themselves.  Eventually, they did rebuild their lives and careers, put some distance with their former lives, and as memories age like good wine, realize that it wasn't really all that bad.  The result, reunion tours. . . .

CAP is kind of like that for me: I was still young, in my mid-20's and didn't want the military to be the be-all-end-all of my existence: college, family & corporate life beckoned.  Well, as many of you know, even that gets old, and you start looking at the yellowing photos, get that faraway look in your eyes, and say "Yeah...yep..yep...."

You run into an old buddy who's a member, or run across some CAP activity, and well, the rest of the story many of you know. . . . . .

Many former mils spend the first couple of years making the comparisons, or walking around with a veteran's insouciance, talking about how they "did it for real." 

I was no exception, but I like many others experienced that certain  "CAP paradigm shift" and finally realized that this organization is it's own peculiar breed of animal, regardless of the costume.  As my military years become a receding figures in the rearview mirro of like, I find that CAP doesn't necessarily do it wrong, just different.

So when I get some long-ago hero who sees me with a couple of military been-there-done-that ribbons, and they do the nudge-nudge-wink-wink-we-know-how-it's-really-done thing, I reply "Maybe so, but nonetheless here we are."

I'd like to think that I achieved some state of equilibrium, and can keep it all in perspective: the costumes, credentials, blingage and all other "wannabee" trimmings give way to that feeling that somehow the best is yet to be:  It won't substitute for being 18 years old, fresh out of basic training with your whole future ahead of you, but it still puts some spring in my step.

Wannabee? Not a wannabee?

Who cares: I'm having fun and I'd like to think I'm making a difference.

To those who share that sentiment: more power to you.

To others: godspeed in your journey through CAP, and hope our paths cross, and that your journey is as fulfilling as mine 

[aveighter]

Very insightful and very well said.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I'll plead guilty to being one of the guys who wants to raise our standards a bit.  I think an officer should be capable of performing at least at the level of a Curry cadet with respect to uniform wear, drill, military courtesy, and general military knowledge.  The current web-course-plus-OJT-at-the-unit isn't doing the job any better than the sit-here-and-watch-this-video method.

But I made the transition long ago to the CAP-unique way of doing things.  It took a while to understand how a military organization can work when the first thing we do when a mission presents itself is discard our unit integrity.

But that does not stop me from believing that with some additional training we can put some panache back into CAP, and do our jobs with professionalism and style! 

[Stonewall]

I'd like to point out that while some wannabes are harmless, I do think there are some that could, if not supervised by someone with common sense, influence some younger cadets the wrong way.  I've met some pretty good phonies out there, some I would call "wannabes" and yes, they were in CAP.  I can't imagine the end result of a couple of these knuckleheads getting together with a small group of cadets for a couple of years.

When I first arrive to DCWG in '92, there was a squadron being run by a brother/sister team.  It was awful and gave me chills to think about what they were doing with their cadets.  For the longest time I thought they were married and almost puked when I learned they were siblings and she was married to some mechanic guy that worked on their CAP van for free.  Later we found out that they used the CAP van for personal use every single day, to include long distance family trips.  In about 2 or 3 years they put 60K miles on it.  They smoked and the windows were clouded with this nasty film (smoke).

Anyway, he was an LPN/school nurse and I have no idea what she did.  She weighed in at a good 300 lbs and he was a scruffy looking d00d with a broomstick mustache and wreaked of cigarettes. 

He'd show up to SAR-EX's wearing a kaybar upside down on his LBE, an AF survival knife strapped to his ankle and of course, his sleeves rolled up regardless of the temperature with black fingerless gloves.  This is a guy in his 40s.  Well, his cadets followed suit and were often seen with black pistol belts, black hats and black gloves with sleeves rolled up.  They called themselves "the cadre".

One day, at summer encampment in '93, he managed to get himself named encampment commander.  Out of the blue, this guy shows up in old army khakis with a 101st patch and ranger tab.  Said he was  LRRP in Vietnam.  Later, of course, the truth came out.  Don't remember if he was even a veteran.

Anyway, we ran him off after learned that he had cadets at his house all the time and some shady stuff going on at his squadron.

I pegged this guy the minute I met him.  And yes, I called him a "wannabe".  Sometimes a wannabe can be detrimental to the program or even worse, to a specific cadet or two.

[mikeylikey]

Out of the blue, this guy shows up in old army khakis with a 101st patch and ranger tab.  Said he was  LRRP in Vietnam.  Later, of course, the truth came out.  Don't remember if he was even a veteran.

Do that today and you find yourself in Prison.  How times have changed.   

[Major Lord]

As a private investigator, I have a branch office in Los Angeles that does pre-employment screening. I would say that any given week will turn up 10-20 people claiming to have been SEALS, Rangers, DELTA, or other groups too secret to even have a name. Usually, the various associations will know the posers, but we try to collect specific weed-out questions. Rangers for instance, will know their class number, and how the number is arrived at. Seals will know about BUDs and swim buddies. Secret ninjas will know what color the boat house at Hereford is.....CAP special ops people will know where the donuts stores are and have them programmed into their GPS units as POI's. Some things are harder to verify, like the genuine former Spetznatz member (as far as I know, there is no Spetznatz Association in America....) By the way, I wanted to be a Marine, but my parents were married......

Major Lord

[docspur]

I'm a Wannabe.  I wanted to be a Soldier.  Because of health I couldn't...although I tried three times.  So, what do I do?  Join CAP?  Nope...didn't even know that CAP was around until 2002.  Nope, what I did was become a Volunteer.  Not able to be a soldier the next best thing is to help the real soldiers out.  That is what I did, and still do....I do volunteer work for the Missouri Nat'l Guard and whatever I can for any other unit, Full-Time, Reserve, or Guard...when needed.  And now that I'm in CAP and have a Squadron to command, you think my "Wannabe" has ended?  Nope, I still help out soldiers as much as I can...and you wouldn't believe the support I now get from them in my CAP career.  I had 15 soldiers show up for my Change of Command ceremony.  I will not try to change my Cadets & Seniors into an Army unit...and I will not try to make myself like an Army commander.  But I do throw in a few HOOAHS now and then. 

<snip> By the way, I wanted to be a Marine, but my parents were married......

Wow, you went there...LOL

[JAFO78]

Ok so now I feel I want to make my position clear as a Wannabe.

I want to be back in CAP. I am a former member, and I am returning not to play military, but to make a difference and influence both cadets & adults to do something for their community, state and country. 

I have read what Kirt and the others have posted, I too have seen these people, I do not want to be this kind of person.

[Stonewall]

I have read what Kirt and the others have posted, I too have seen these people, I do not want to be this kind of person.

I think we're talking about 2 different types of wannabes.

1.  The good guy.  Like most of us who want to be a part of CAP because of the good that comes from it.  The good feelings we get from working with cadets, helping our community, state and nation.  You can be a goofball and still be one of the "good wannabes".

2.  The guy that shows up to be something he's not.  The one that shows up with his chest sticking out trying to impress people with all the bells and whistles of a "bad guy" wannabe.  The one that is dangerous, a bad influence and projects a bad image of CAP.

It's kind of like a volunteer fire department.  You've got your good guy volunteers that enjoy volunteering as a non-paid firefighter.  Then you've got the squirrels.  The guy that carries a scanner, pager and cell on their belt.  The guy that doesn't own a shirt that doesn't say something about being a firefighter.  The one with 30 stickers on their car making sure everyone knows they're a firefighter.  The one with a 1989 Ford Escort with a dash light who expects people to yield to him while en route to a kitty cat stuck in a tree.

To me, those are the two types of wannabes.  #1 being okay.

[AC]

Very good thread, sir. Looks like I'm still a wannabe, but definately not a poser!

[flyguy06]

...thinking of branch transferring to Quartermaster. Plus I have my civilian career to focus on

Just stay out of the Acquisition Corps - it really limits your post retirement options.

I'm in the Guard. I dont have post retirement options. The Guard doesnt drill on Army Posts

I have a good civilain career. I am a Flight Instructor withhopes to be an airline pilot. So it has nothing to do with my military life. I try to keep the two seperate

Acquisition Corps membership effects who you can work for when you leave the service (post retirement), but I don't know if the NG's even have AQ slots.  I know that the USAR does (and it effects their non-USAR careers), but not sure about the NG.

[davedove]

My definition of a wannabe, especially where CAP is concerned is the individual who either couldn't get into the military, or wants to relive his glory days, and tries to mold a unit into his version of what a military unit should be like.  This individual accepts only the input that coincides with his "vision" and anyone else just doesn't understand "how it ought to be."

[Dragoon]

My definition of a wannabe, especially where CAP is concerned is the individual who either couldn't get into the military, or wants to relive his glory days, and tries to mold a unit into his version of what a military unit should be like.  This individual accepts only the input that coincides with his "vision" and anyone else just doesn't understand "how it ought to be."

Good insight there.

Of course, there are some folks who honestly want to change a unit to make it better, and see some value in a more military model.  Within reason, that can be a good thing.  For example, we mandated a single uniform and held formations.  To some seniors, this might seem overboard.  But morale and attendance actually improved.

On the other hand, marching seniors around the parking lot all meeting, teaching cadets about emplacing claymore mines, or getting everyone to chant "Blood Makes the Grass Grow!" when they fall out are probably warning signs......

I think the key factor in wannabee-ism is a focus on self - how can I look cooler?  How can I get more respect?  How can I get men to fear me and chicks to dig me?  Teenage kinda stuff.

As opposed to "how can we be better?"

[Stonewall]

For example, we mandated a single uniform and held formations.  To some seniors, this might seem overboard.  But morale and attendance actually improved.

+1 on this ^^^^

Lots of folks may consider this a touch on the "wannabe" side, but I definitely advocate such action.  I speak from 100% experience on this one and can attest to the true increase in morale and attendance.

No, brother.  That is not something a wannabe would do, but I don't think you have identity issues so it's a non-issue.

[CAPLAW]

I have been called a wannabe by people before."its not the real military" my response to this one is that it is indeed the real Civil Air Patrol.  Yes we do have have wannabes in this organization, however I have meet real wannabees in the military like a guy who was a supply clerk bit told everybody he was in  special forces.  I have a guy on my fire department who was a green beret but it was discovered he is one of those clothing sales commandos. The issue of wannabes are every where, I am a Vol, fire fighter and people tell me that I'm not with the real fire department.  I told a guy well its a real fire truck with real water.  I have been to fire school I just not choose to do it as a career.  I am a cop and in the blue world some cops refere to correctional officers and security guards as wannabes.  I always speak up about this defend CO and SO types.  So I guess there is wannabes theme in every type of profession,  A few bad apples give us all a bad name.  In CAP I consider myself a non paid professional and not a wannabe.

[Hoser]

Stonewall's description of wannabes has a technical term: "Gandies" or "Gandy" in the singular. Despite doing the Coast Guard thing, I guess I am one too, I wannabe able to contribute in a constructive way. In that context, we all are wannabes.

[DogCollar]

I think this has been one of the best threads that I have EVER read!!  It just goes to show that there is ONE real antidote to the "poser" wannabe!!  That antidote is a sense of humility!  By that I mean (and what I've learned from reading this thread), is that it is more important for me to  take the mission of CAP more seriously than I take "myself!"

It reminds my of my father, a WWII Navy vet, who lived thorugh a lot of naval battles in the pacific theatre.  He NEVER glorified what he did, or any of his shipmates...they were doing there job.  He will tell you that the best thing he did in the navy was to run a base "pool hall" in the Philippines after liberation!  To this day (and I'm very fortunate to still have him around at 83 years-old), he doesn't think HE did anything special...however, he is very proud to have served his country in a time of need.

[ddelaney103]

One good gauge of a real BTDT is their stories.  Rare are the "There I was, knee deep in hand grenade pins..." stories, while the most repeated are the funny or bizarre one.

My friend the SEAL used to repeat stories like when the Corpsman came by while he was lying on the TARMAC at Grenada and said, "This one's a deader" or the one where someone dropped an M203 round beneath the deck grating and they were trying to grab it while also figuring out how many rotations it had to roll before it was armed.

As the Padre said, a reluctance to blow one's own horn tends to mark the real deal.

[Stonewall]

Maybe we should start a thread or sticky of how to identify a wannabe or phony.  I know, it's not really CAP related.

One thing I que in on is "name dropping".  My buddy is the biggest wannabe and phony.  Yes, a long-term 20-year friend and fellow former cadet, now fellow cop.  Long story.  That boy drops huge names in the SOCOM community.  Larry Vickers, Craige Maxim,  and tohers I don't know off the top of my head.  He does this because the untrained "phony buster" thinks it adds validity to their stories so they must be true.

He also tries to tie me into his fantasy when he says things like "well, door kickers like us are true warriors and know moreso about leadership than these pogues we work with....."

Yes, this is one of my best friends.  I even tell him stories of a few phonies I've come in contact with or busted.  He's so bold with it that it shocks me.  I have a plan though.  In February we're taking a trip together to DC and I'm going to use the drive up there to have a friendly heart-to-heart with him.  Letting him know that he should be proud of what he's done and where he came from.  It's so sad really, I feel sorry for him.

Ironically, as a cadet wannabe, the same buddy above and I had a young 20-something show up to our squadron claiming all sorts of special ops experience.  Guess he thought he could get one over on a bunch of kids (cadets).  He couldn't even tell us where Ft. Bragg is (home of Army Special Ops), nor could he describe basic infantry skills.  So we got our chaplain, who was, at the time, the real deal.  He happened to be the chaplain for the 20th SFG(A) ARNG unit out at Camp Blanding.  He politely explained to the young man that he had no place in CAP.  Hooah?  Hooah.

[pixelwonk]

Maybe we should start a thread or sticky of how to identify a wannabe or phony.  I know, it's not really CAP related.

Better yet, start one about how to effectively deal with these types.  If it's dignified and well, good, maybe it will be stickied.

[flyguy06]

I have been called a wannabe by people before."its not the real military" my response to this one is that it is indeed the real Civil Air Patrol.  Yes we do have have wannabes in this organization, however I have meet real wannabees in the military like a guy who was a supply clerk bit told everybody he was in  special forces.  I have a guy on my fire department who was a green beret but it was discovered he is one of those clothing sales commandos. The issue of wannabes are every where, I am a Vol, fire fighter and people tell me that I'm not with the real fire department.  I told a guy well its a real fire truck with real water.  I have been to fire school I just not choose to do it as a career.  I am a cop and in the blue world some cops refere to correctional officers and security guards as wannabes.  I always speak up about this defend CO and SO types.  So I guess there is wannabes theme in every type of profession,  A few bad apples give us all a bad name.  In CAP I consider myself a non paid professional and not a wannabe.

Actually you could be a supply clerk in Special Forces. When people think of SF they immediately think of Green Berets and the operators. But remember that Special Forces is a military unit like any other and they like other units have support jobs too. I met a female captain with a Special Forces patch ( I said patch, not Tab) and I asked her what she did. She was the Medical Officer for a Special Forces Group. SF Groups have medical, logistics, and signal jobs that do not require the whole Green Beret thing. I have actually myself been thinking of joining this National Guard SF unit in Alabama. But I am too old to be running through the woods doing all that hooah stuff. So I thought about branch transferring to Quartermaster and being a Logistics Officer in a SF unit. Hey I dontget to wear a Green beret. I would wear a Maroon one, but I still get to go to Rigger school, jumpmaster school and and a few others. So, its still a good bit of adventure

[Stonewall]

Never too old, FlyGuy.  My division commander in the 29th ID went to Ranger School as a Colonel at age 50 I think.  Had a guy at my AFRES PJ unit that started at age 38 and finished PJ pipeline at 40.

Ah yes, the support guys.  Many of the support guys are the ones whom I've had trouble with.  In fact, a huge phony bust that I had was an IT support guy from SEAL Team 3.  Since he was there he knew all the ins and outs of the Team.  Next thing you know, he's sportin' a SEAL trident, etc.  He got slammed big time, lost his TS and everything.

Not saying all or even a majority of SF support guys are like this, just sayin' I've had several support folks try to come off as actualy operators due to their intimate knowledge of the units they support.

[BillB]

You can't always trust the information on a DD-214. At the time I was discharged from the Army reserve to transfer to USAF, the regulation was the Good Conduct medal was awarded on discharge if less than 3 years of good conduct. The Air Force had the same regulation (both have since been changed) on the award of the AF Good Conduct. My aircrew wings were on Squadron orders after being assigned as an aircraft radio operation flying between maxwell and Pusan, Korea twice monthly. None of these shows up on my DD-214, in fact the National Defense medal doesn't even show up.
Often Admin is rushed doing a lew of dd-214's and items get overlooked. Mine also shows E-3 on enlistment and discharge, but doesn't show temporary grade awarded. Reservists only got temporary promotions during active duty during this period I was told. but did get the higher grade pay.

[flyguy06]

Never too old, FlyGuy.  My division commander in the 29th ID went to Ranger School as a Colonel at age 50 I think.  Had a guy at my AFRES PJ unit that started at age 38 and finished PJ pipeline at 40.

Ah yes, the support guys.  Many of the support guys are the ones whom I've had trouble with.  In fact, a huge phony bust that I had was an IT support guy from SEAL Team 3.  Since he was there he knew all the ins and outs of the Team.  Next thing you know, he's sportin' a SEAL trident, etc.  He got slammed big time, lost his TS and everything.

Not saying all or even a majority of SF support guys are like this, just sayin' I've had several support folks try to come off as actualy operators due to their intimate knowledge of the units they support.

Yeah, at 39 i guess thatmay not be too old, but I dont run like I did when I was 20 something.

Support guys canrelish stories. Just gotta be careful what you listen too.

[RiverAux]

Since we've wandered a bit, I want to make it clear that I'm not defending anyone who lies about their military record (or lack thereof).  I'm defending the guys who honestly have good intentions but who happen to enjoy or don't actualy enjoy, but think that the military aspects of CAP are important for various reasons. 

[Monty]

Well, I sat on this topic for a few days, so as to make sure of exactly what I'd like to contribute.

First off, I have a bit of a different interpretation of "wannabe" – I consider this to be somebody who's trying to be something they're not – namely in our situation, trying to play Air Force Officer when in actuality, the wannabe doesn't know the first thing about much of an Air Force Officer's life, outside of how one can earn a commission and how awesome it must be to be saluted all day.   

From my personal vantage, there seems to be an inordinate collective of wannabe seniors who try to pass themselves off as Air Force officers through antics of the following (thought not limited to the following) –

1.  NOT REALIZING that every public antic labels us all...especially when individual personality quirks go unchecked (many of which are easily kept in check with the UCMJ for an Air Force member but of course, not applicable to "Sammy Sass-off CAP.")
2.  Wearing an Air Force suit, but conducting themselves as an unchecked, "faucet" disciplined, Mr. Spock (yes, even AF officers have joviality in their professional demeanor).
3.  Wearing an Air Force suit, but acting the role of the Army/Marine/Navy member
4.  Placing more emphasis upon the armed forces than the Civil Air Patrol (the name emblazoned upon every senior's chest in some fashion).  For example, the likelihood of a "wannabe" in telling me intricate details of the life story of H. Norman Schwarzkopf is likely greater than a Civil Air Patrol member telling me the life story – with as many details – of Gill Robb Wilson.  CNN's fault?  Or rather, Schwarzkopf was a military general, and that's cooler than a founder of CAP (which ironically, the CAP member is part of the latter's contributions).  To me personally, that sits about as well as a child saying, "Dad, I don't care about your life - my neighbor's is much cooler."
5.  Rejecting a CAP culture and in lieu thereof, borrows what they think is what the armed forces do, and then try to justify such choices when evidence more than suggests that even their interpretations of those they wish to emulate (US Air Force officers) is wrong or outdated.
6.  Failure to progress academically, beyond that which the "wannabe" needs for promotion AND...resting on the laurels of marking check boxes vs. incorporating the training CAP members learn.  CAP members claim that Region Staff College and National Staff College are poor comparisons to their armed forces equivalents (e.g., SOS, ACSC, AWC)...yet few who complain opt to take these courses via correspondence methods.  (Failure to progress is sufficient grounds to deep six an Air Force officer...but without such things to fear in CAP, it's not an issue.  Or is it?)
7.  Too much infatuation with trivialities.  All things are good in moderation; however, "horseplay is the direct result of boredom" as the saying goes.  Don't have anything better to do than take pictures of yourself wearing a service cap?  Wow...wonder how many of the "real" AF Officers are doing that.  (Just a gentle nudge.)
8.  Picking and choosing.  These folks play the AF card when it looks great, but back away into "CAP Inc." when it's easier.  CAP Captain So-and-so demands (overtly or covertly) to be addressed as such...however, he will lip off to those higher in "grade" (even in forums) when he gets his ego busted.
9.  Even the most seasoned of officers know when their time has come (one way or another), especially when their flexibility has peaked and long-since ebbed.  In CAP?  Nope!  "By God, this is how we did it in 1962 and that's how it needs to be in 2012."  Wow.  Attrition is an arguably good thing; the advantages of which certainly include maintaining a flexible, able-minded force.  Worried about losing a bygone era's skill set at the behest of supplementing the new data and training with the old?  For shame in the worrying; if that wasn't passed down, see point #6.

And lastly....

10.  Failure to recognize what CAP really is.  Many seem to see CAP as an extension of their one-hitch in the service, or an ability to make up for what wasn't chosen (or available) to them in the past.  No issues with the latter; that's commendable.  Problems arise when folks fail to be proud of their association with CAP first and the USAF second.  Perhaps the USAF association is paramount to many folks' self-esteem for some sense of legitimacy.  But when we focus so doggone much on the clothes instead of developing ourselves and our own camaraderie with each other, then we FAIL to learn how to interact with each others as CAP members and instead, pass ourselves off as "wannabes" to each other; puffed out chests and the desire to discuss why our specialty badges don't look like AFSC badges vs. learning how to interact as CIVIL colleagues, friends, and a cog in the big wheel of community service.

For some, the blanket (an AF-type suit and the bling we can glue on it) with which many wrap themselves is done so with odd intentions.  It gets some through the day, and as one person asked originally, "Why does it matter to CAP one way or another if some members are only interested in ribbon and rank? "  Of course it doesn't matter...unless the "wannabes" out there wish to see that many of their antics really typecast the rest of us - and when compared to the "real" version, perpetuate a great divide between how those we somehow wish to emulate do things.....and our loving minority of wannabes.

IN THE END...

I wore the AF uniform for 8 years.  I don't need to wear it with different colored badges to know my place or with whom I'm associated.  I'm a Civil Air Patrol senior member who doesn't need to seek legitimacy by calling myself "Air Force Auxiliary Major Monty" (with "micro" font on the word "Auxiliary").  I don't need to flash my awards and decorations, or my grade, or my resume from the Air Force or the Civil Air Patrol.  I wish to be judged by the work I do for the organization to which I belong - and that's good enough for me.  And lastly, I wish to be able to keep myself flexible, objective, and able to critically analyze any situation; even when the factual results counter my personal druthers.  The day I cannot do any of these things is the day that Monty will either not renew or put in retirement papers for CAP.

All my personal opinion; which is worth as much as anyone's.  :-)

[flyguy06]

Well, I sat on this topic for a few days, so as to make sure of exactly what I'd like to contribute.

First off, I have a bit of a different interpretation of "wannabe" – I consider this to be somebody who's trying to be something they're not – namely in our situation, trying to play Air Force Officer when in actuality, the wannabe doesn't know the first thing about much of an Air Force Officer's life, outside of how one can earn a commission and how awesome it must be to be saluted all day.   

From my personal vantage, there seems to be an inordinate collective of wannabe seniors who try to pass themselves off as Air Force officers through antics of the following (thought not limited to the following) –

1.  NOT REALIZING that every public antic labels us all...especially when individual personality quirks go unchecked (many of which are easily kept in check with the UCMJ for an Air Force member but of course, not applicable to "Sammy Sass-off CAP.")
2.  Wearing an Air Force suit, but conducting themselves as an unchecked, "faucet" disciplined, Mr. Spock (yes, even AF officers have joviality in their professional demeanor).
3.  Wearing an Air Force suit, but acting the role of the Army/Marine/Navy member
4.  Placing more emphasis upon the armed forces than the Civil Air Patrol (the name emblazoned upon every senior's chest in some fashion).  For example, the likelihood of a "wannabe" in telling me intricate details of the life story of H. Norman Schwarzkopf is likely greater than a Civil Air Patrol member telling me the life story – with as many details – of Gill Robb Wilson.  CNN's fault?  Or rather, Schwarzkopf was a military general, and that's cooler than a founder of CAP (which ironically, the CAP member is part of the latter's contributions).  To me personally, that sits about as well as a child saying, "Dad, I don't care about your life - my neighbor's is much cooler."
5.  Rejecting a CAP culture and in lieu thereof, borrows what they think is what the armed forces do, and then try to justify such choices when evidence more than suggests that even their interpretations of those they wish to emulate (US Air Force officers) is wrong or outdated.
6.  Failure to progress academically, beyond that which the "wannabe" needs for promotion AND...resting on the laurels of marking check boxes vs. incorporating the training CAP members learn.  CAP members claim that Region Staff College and National Staff College are poor comparisons to their armed forces equivalents (e.g., SOS, ACSC, AWC)...yet few who complain opt to take these courses via correspondence methods.  (Failure to progress is sufficient grounds to deep six an Air Force officer...but without such things to fear in CAP, it's not an issue.  Or is it?)
7.  Too much infatuation with trivialities.  All things are good in moderation; however, "horseplay is the direct result of boredom" as the saying goes.  Don't have anything better to do than take pictures of yourself wearing a service cap?  Wow...wonder how many of the "real" AF Officers are doing that.  (Just a gentle nudge.)
8.  Picking and choosing.  These folks play the AF card when it looks great, but back away into "CAP Inc." when it's easier.  CAP Captain So-and-so demands (overtly or covertly) to be addressed as such...however, he will lip off to those higher in "grade" (even in forums) when he gets his ego busted.
9.  Even the most seasoned of officers know when their time has come (one way or another), especially when their flexibility has peaked and long-since ebbed.  In CAP?  Nope!  "By God, this is how we did it in 1962 and that's how it needs to be in 2012."  Wow.  Attrition is an arguably good thing; the advantages of which certainly include maintaining a flexible, able-minded force.  Worried about losing a bygone era's skill set at the behest of supplementing the new data and training with the old?  For shame in the worrying; if that wasn't passed down, see point #6.

And lastly....

10.  Failure to recognize what CAP really is.  Many seem to see CAP as an extension of their one-hitch in the service, or an ability to make up for what wasn't chosen (or available) to them in the past.  No issues with the latter; that's commendable.  Problems arise when folks fail to be proud of their association with CAP first and the USAF second.  Perhaps the USAF association is paramount to many folks' self-esteem for some sense of legitimacy.  But when we focus so doggone much on the clothes instead of developing ourselves and our own camaraderie with each other, then we FAIL to learn how to interact with each others as CAP members and instead, pass ourselves off as "wannabes" to each other; puffed out chests and the desire to discuss why our specialty badges don't look like AFSC badges vs. learning how to interact as CIVIL colleagues, friends, and a cog in the big wheel of community service.

For some, the blanket (an AF-type suit and the bling we can glue on it) with which many wrap themselves is done so with odd intentions.  It gets some through the day, and as one person asked originally, "Why does it matter to CAP one way or another if some members are only interested in ribbon and rank? "  Of course it doesn't matter...unless the "wannabes" out there wish to see that many of their antics really typecast the rest of us - and when compared to the "real" version, perpetuate a great divide between how those we somehow wish to emulate do things.....and our loving minority of wannabes.

IN THE END...

I wore the AF uniform for 8 years.  I don't need to wear it with different colored badges to know my place or with whom I'm associated.  I'm a Civil Air Patrol senior member who doesn't need to seek legitimacy by calling myself "Air Force Auxiliary Major Monty" (with "micro" font on the word "Auxiliary").  I don't need to flash my awards and decorations, or my grade, or my resume from the Air Force or the Civil Air Patrol.  I wish to be judged by the work I do for the organization to which I belong - and that's good enough for me.  And lastly, I wish to be able to keep myself flexible, objective, and able to critically analyze any situation; even when the factual results counter my personal druthers.  The day I cannot do any of these things is the day that Monty will either not renew or put in retirement papers for CAP.

All my personal opinion; which is worth as much as anyone's.  :-)

So where you caterogize me? I look at it as playing AF officer sincde I could not be a military pilot I look at CAP as doing it. Is that bad?  I think CAP to a certain way is the USAF. But in others ways I think its not.

[Monty]

So where you caterogize me? I look at it as playing AF officer sincde I could not be a military pilot I look at CAP as doing it. Is that bad?  I think CAP to a certain way is the USAF. But in others ways I think its not.

I don't know you from Adam (or Eve, I guess you might be female too) but bear in mind I'm no authority on the matter...  The "whole person concept" applies as well and for that, being an anonymous poster makes it hard to necessarily categorize a person (if that's even possible to do, legitimately).

My "David Letterman Top 10" is by no means a complete list. 

[flyguy06]

So where you caterogize me? I look at it as playing AF officer sincde I could not be a military pilot I look at CAP as doing it. Is that bad?  I think CAP to a certain way is the USAF. But in others ways I think its not.

I don't know you from Adam (or Eve, I guess you might be female too) but bear in mind I'm no authority on the matter...  The "whole person concept" applies as well and for that, being an anonymous poster makes it hard to necessarily categorize a person (if that's even possible to do, legitimately).

My "David Letterman Top 10" is by no means a complete list. 

Being an anonymous posters has nothing to do with it. If you knew my name you still wouldnt know "me"

But you aid a wannabe is somebody trying to be something they are not, namely an Air Force Officer. I said earlier that I look at CAP as being the closets I will ever get to being an Air Force Officer. So, am I a wanna be?

[Dragoon]

Depends - is it because you wanna fly, or because you hope your friends will be impressed with your wings and your flightsuit?

Would you quit CAP if USAF put us in a non-USAF uniform?

Are you in CAP to serve, or to feel like a warrior?

In other words, are you focused on the feeling that comes from the work, or the feeling that comes from the costume?

[RiverAux]

In other words, are you focused on the feeling that comes from the work, or the feeling that comes from the costume?

Does it matter?  If someone is getting the job done without being a jerk (which can be a result of many things), then what do we care what their motivation is?  Its the results that counts in my book.  If a guy's sole reason to be in CAP is to get to wear an AF-style uniform while flying a plane, thats just fine by me so long as he answers the phone when I'm looking for a crew. 

This was one of the main points I was trying to make. 

[Briski]

It's rare for me to come out of the CP-related forums, but someone finally brought my attention to this thread. So I guess I'll say somethin'.

Personally, I don't give a crap who you are or what image you try to project, as long as you're getting the job done. I do, however, have an issue is with people who get so caught up in their egos that they start to hinder mission accomplishment.

I've seen this more in the CP than anywhere else, though. Mainly with officers who get so caught up in looking hardkewl (Help Received: Monty) that they focus more on making themselves look good than they do on overseeing the proper leadership training of our cadets.

It has nothing to do with prior service vs. non-prior service. I've met plenty of prior service guys who I seriously wondered how they made it through their stint on AD without getting fragged by their own men.

However, very few of the people on the list of SMs who impacted my growth and development the most WIWAC ever wore any uniform but the CAP uniform.

And guess what? Now that I'm a CP SM, they're still the ones I look to.

And guess what else? As an commission-seeking ROTC cadet and future butter bar, I've learned a whole heck of a lot more about what it means to be an officer from a couple of CAP SMs who never served a day in the RealMilitary than I have from the vast majority of officers I've been taught by in 2.5 years of ROTC.

It doesn't matter what uniform you wear. Oh heck, I'll even go as far to say it doesn't matter whether you wear the AF-style CAP uniform or the alternates. Because frankly, some of the most professional CAP officers I have ever had the honor of working with were professional enough to adhere to the regulations and wear the alternates.

I know people who would put any AF-style clad officer to shame with the way they wear their alternates, because it's a matter of professionalism to them to wear their uniforms with pride and in accordance with regulations regardless of what color it is.

Anyway... again, as long as people are not so closely tied to their egos as to present a problem, I honestly don't care. I might roll my eyes from time to time, but as long as we're still gettin' the job done to the best of our abilities, we're all harmless, right?

[AlphaSigOU]

Well said, Jackie!

[Dragoon]

In other words, are you focused on the feeling that comes from the work, or the feeling that comes from the costume?

Does it matter?  If someone is getting the job done without being a jerk (which can be a result of many things), then what do we care what their motivation is?  Its the results that counts in my book.  If a guy's sole reason to be in CAP is to get to wear an AF-style uniform while flying a plane, thats just fine by me so long as he answers the phone when I'm looking for a crew. 

This was one of the main points I was trying to make. 

I think a lot of the posts in this thread outline the problems.

Sooner or later, a person's inner motivations are going to affect their behavior.  People simply can't divorce their inner and outer selves.   Yup, I do care about why you're here.  Because years of CAP command jobs have taught me that at some point I'm gonna end up dealing with the "inner senior member."

If you're here to serve, you're likely to help out even when it's not an exciting or fun tasking.  If you're devoted to the mission and the team, I can count on you.  If you're only  devoted to looking cool, garnering salutes, or impressing cadets with your war stories.........all bets are off.

[LittleIronPilot]

In other words, are you focused on the feeling that comes from the work, or the feeling that comes from the costume?

Does it matter?  If someone is getting the job done without being a jerk (which can be a result of many things), then what do we care what their motivation is?  Its the results that counts in my book.  If a guy's sole reason to be in CAP is to get to wear an AF-style uniform while flying a plane, thats just fine by me so long as he answers the phone when I'm looking for a crew. 

This was one of the main points I was trying to make. 

Most excellent point sir.

[Monty]

I think a lot of the posts in this thread outline the problems.

Sooner or later, a person's inner motivations are going to affect their behavior.  People simply can't divorce their inner and outer selves.   Yup, I do care about why you're here.  Because years of CAP command jobs have taught me that at some point I'm gonna end up dealing with the "inner senior member."

If you're here to serve, you're likely to help out even when it's not an exciting or fun tasking.  If you're devoted to the mission and the team, I can count on you.  If you're only  devoted to looking cool, garnering salutes, or impressing cadets with your war stories.........all bets are off.

Advance this guy to the head of the class; he gets it.  Thumbs up.

[flyguy06]

Depends - is it because you wanna fly, or because you hope your friends will be impressed with your wings and your flightsuit?

Would you quit CAP if USAF put us in a non-USAF uniform?

Are you in CAP to serve, or to feel like a warrior?

In other words, are you focused on the feeling that comes from the work, or the feeling that comes from the costume?

Good questions. First of all, I am a warrior. I joined CAP to make a difference. To motivate young people to pursue careers in aviation and the military. To show youth that if you perservere you can achieve your goals, and yes,  I like the flightsuits. Sue me 

[ZigZag911]

The 'bling', C &C , and so forth, are CAP's 'fringe benefits'....nice to have, but the truly dedicated member can live without them.

If you're here for the superficial stuff, you're missing the heart of the program -- and probably won't last too long!

[Stonewall]

The 'bling', C &C , and so forth, are CAP's 'fringe benefits'....nice to have, but the truly dedicated member can live without them.

If you're here for the superficial stuff, you're missing the heart of the program -- and probably won't last too long!

If we didn't have the "bling" (uniforms & accouterments), D&C and so forth, it wouldn't be a military program.  In essence, it wouldn't be CAP.  Personally, I joined CAP.

Seriously, I think the folks who aren't interested or down right against the military aspect of CAP, i.e. the uniforms, chain of command, rank, customs and courtesies, D&C, etc., are either the gung-ho SAR types that are in it solely for the Search & Rescue part of CAP or the die-hard aviators.  I often hear (or read) "who cares about all that military stuff when I'm 2,000 ft AGL", or the guy with the attitude that says "I'm here to save lives, all that military stuff is for the birds".

I would honestly never consider CAP an option to dedicate my time, money and efforts if I wasn't interested in all the things that some call "fringe benefits".  I could join USCG Aux, a number of different SAR organizations or a local flying club if I wanted nothing to do with the Cadet Program, where a majority of all the fringe benefits are. 

[flyguy06]

We always say in my Squadron that awards and medals are the "pay" we recieve in CAP. Members do a lot with no pay,so commanders need to make it a priority to recognize members, give them awards in front of the group. that is our paycheck

[LittleIronPilot]

One thing that I must I admit to being confused on is the "duality" that some are advocating.

So let me get this straight...we are supposed to be teaching leadership, discipline, etc. to our cadets through this program and its structure. Then telling them that "none of that crap matters" once they become a senior as it is a bunch of pooey.

First, there are a LOT of adults that could use leadership training. It is funny how college and life may make you proficient in a career field but it often teachings NOTHING of actual leadership.

Being physically fit is IMPORTANT to a cadet, but matters naught to a Senior.

I mean what the heck are we teaching cadets? Do as I say, not as I do?

I am with Stonewall...without CAP being what it is today, I would not be a part of CAP. Instead I would find other areas to, perhaps the my SDF, or even going back to being a reserve Police Officer instead.

[flyguy06]

One thing that I must I admit to being confused on is the "duality" that some are advocating.

So let me get this straight...we are supposed to be teaching leadership, discipline, etc. to our cadets through this program and its structure. Then telling them that "none of that crap matters" once they become a senior as it is a bunch of pooey.

First, there are a LOT of adults that could use leadership training. It is funny how college and life may make you proficient in a career field but it often teachings NOTHING of actual leadership.

Being physically fit is IMPORTANT to a cadet, but matters naught to a Senior.

I mean what the heck are we teaching cadets? Do as I say, not as I do?

I am with Stonewall...without CAP being what it is today, I would not be a part of CAP. Instead I would find other areas to, perhaps the my SDF, or even going back to being a reserve Police Officer instead.

I agree but when you arent paying adults you cant really make them do too much. Adults do need leadership. But many, and I can only speak for my unit wont do the military thing . heck I cant even get them to come to meetings. They dont look at CAP the same way a Cat looks at CAP. To adults, CAP is something they do on "their" itme when they have the time. Its not a commitment thing like it is to cadts. Again, some signle senior members or senior members that have money may have the time to commit to CAP but when you work 40 hours, take care of a family and pay bills, you just cant commit to it the way a Cadet can

[Stonewall]

... heck I cant even get them to come to meetings. They dont look at CAP the same way a Cat looks at CAP. To adults, CAP is something they do on "their" itme when they have the time. Its not a commitment thing like it is to cadts. Again, some signle senior members or senior members that have money may have the time to commit to CAP but when you work 40 hours, take care of a family and pay bills, you just cant commit to it the way a Cadet can

Me personally, I never even attempt to persuade seniors to do anything.  I don't recruit, bargain with or beg.  It's hard at first, when you're building a program, but I always have the expectation that I'll be in it alone for at least 6 months.  But once you get it going, the old saying of "build it and they will come"" rings true.  I didn't give seniors an option, even though, by regulation, they have one.  They showed up in the UOD because they felt awkward if they wore anything else.  Had a flight (in formation) of seniors wearing BDUs that numbered up to 12 and 15, standing right next to cadets.  Many will say "no way, you can't make me wear BDUs and stand in formation", and that's fine, but you'll be the only dork standing on the sideline while everyone else is looking the part of a team.  Remember, sympathizers are spectators, empathizers wear game shoes...

[Short Field]

I didn't give seniors an option, even though, by regulation, they have one. 

[CAP_truth]

When I was a cadet we had a flight of seniors standing next to us during opening and closing formations every week. They worn the same uniform as was required for cadets. NO senior ever complained about it. When I was squadron commander I had my seniors fall in for formation it was just part of the meeting. Senior were required to be in uniform and they were not wannabes, they were members of the unit.

[LittleIronPilot]

The seniors in my squadron are almost ALWAYS in uniform. Now granted it may not always be the same as the cadets, but some sort of uniform is always worn. We also fall-in for formation, the posting of the colors, saluting the flag, etc. for EVERY MEETING.

I like Stonewall's approach. You build a strong program and they will come. If they do come and do not want to partake in what the rest of the squadron is doing then they can stand on the side and look silly....and miss out on the training and camaraderie the rest of the seniors are getting.

While we ALWAYS recognize that "life" gets in the way sometimes, we are trying to instill in people that the CAP *is* a commitment and that while you can join just to have something to do "when you have the time" they will not get much out of it, not get the calls unless they are the last of the barrel, not get promoted....not get much since they do not give much.

Again...to me the change needs to be that this IS serious stuff and requires as much commitment as one reasonably can give.

[Dragoon]

Remember, there's a big difference between "being military" and "being USAF."

Imagine a CAP with everyone in corporate service dress and blue BDUs.   Seniors saluting.  Holding formations.  Giving out ribbons, medals and badges for achievements.  Teaching cadets a military style of leadership.  And actually following it ourselves.

It could happen (it ain't gonna, but it COULD).  There is absolutely zero need to have "U.S." on the collar, or to wear a green nomex fighter pilot suit to have such an organization.

There is absolutely nothing wannabee about subscribing to a military model.  It's a good way to run an organization that deals with crisis situations.

The worry is the guy whose focus is on self glory.  He desperately HOPES folks will mistake him for a snake eater, or zipper suited sun god.  He hangs with cadets because, frankly, they are easy to impress.  He works hard to earn medals, and is nowhere to be found when the job carries no external recognition.    This guy clings on to his USAF trappings with both hands - because his self image is a little to closely tied to that fantasy.

Just because someone is anti-"pretend to be a warrior" doesn't neccesarily mean they are anti-"military."   

Also, remember the thousands of USAF civilians, from the intel analysts to the SECAF.  No uniforms, no grade titles.  And yet they've got more Air Force Blue in their veins that most of us can ever aspire to.

Sure, we've got members who just want a golf-shirted flying club.  Or just want to be den mothers to their offspring.  But....

You can believe that "CAP is an integral part of the Air Force" and still believe that CAP doesn't need a military model to serve in that role..
You can also believe that "CAP should be military" and still believe that CAP members don't need look like USAF officers.

[SAR-EMT1]

OK, Ive held my tongue for a while but guess I'll weigh in...

How do you spot a wannabe? He writes an essay validating himself to others... that said, here is my novella...


Almost everything that Ddelaney103 mentioned in his post from the 16th rings true for me. So much so that he might have had me in mind while writing his post.

I want better PME standards-- because the first step in improving oneself is the attainment of knowledge.

Yes I think a commission or something similar would be nice. ...Or something similar to the RAFVR (T) -- It would show the Air Force cares about us. (On another topic folks compared how the CGAux is looked well on by the AD- CG
and how while they were in the AD-AF they had not even heard of CAP. Or how with the exception of the CAPUSAF types at NHQ the majority of our attention comes from SDs and CAPRAP.) -- Having a piece of paper and better PME might get us more recognition from the Air Force. As in: more AF types knowing we exsist.

I dont care about folks telling me Im awesome, If I needed that I'd read the cards and thank you notes I recieve from former patients at my EMS job.  

I mentioned in another thread that I want less technicolor bling and if we could look more like the Air Force GREAT! -- but thats solely based on public perception and professional image. If we look like a cartoon character or Peruvian Field Marshal we wont be taken seriously.

I think that having a college degree to be an officer or rise to field grades in CAP might be nice but it may not be practicable.  I would point out that I do not have a bachelors degree myself. Just an associates and a buttload of credits towards a bachelors.

I did go to college and was in the ROTC program, but I got dropped against my will and I havent been able to get back in. I see CAP not as a replacment to the Air Force but as the next best thing. Yes I want some things for CAP but I am not a poser.
I would not wear a good conduct medal or other military ribbon Im not entitled to. (Though I am sadly proud of the two or three ribbons I earned in ROTC) I do not go around trolling for salutes or shoving my ID card in peoples faces. I am an EMS type so I do have a SMALL jump kit configured into my field gear. (It doesnt have a backboard or any crap like that) I do not have a Kbar on my LBE, Ive been to Benning but I dont know the colour of the bloody boathouse at Hereford. (pronounced Harryford)

Ideally I would want to be able to do the same thing for the Air Force that i do for the Coast Guard as an Auxxie: AUGMENT. Because I think that many CAP types myself included could serve a useful purpose on base.

Til then I will happily and humbly serve as a CAP REMF personnel / admin/ pd type.

//
Novella done
...
Someone please beat me upside the head before I say something really stoopid  

[JayT]

I want better PME standards-- because the first step in improving oneself is the attainment of knowledge.

Definately, can't go wrong with that.

Yes I think a commission or something similar would be nice. ...Or something similar to the RAFVR (T) -- It would show the Air Force cares about us. (On another topic folks compared how the CGAux is looked well on by the AD- CG
and how while they were in the AD-AF they had not even heard of CAP. Or how with the exception of the CAPUSAF types at NHQ the majority of our attention comes from SDs and CAPRAP.) -- Having a piece of paper and better PME might get us more recognition from the Air Force. As in: more AF types knowing we exsist.

Answer this, why does the average Airman need to know CAP exists? We don't make his/her life any easier, so other then to make our own members feel better, whats really the point?

I wouldn't mind seeing a VR(T) type thing, but the British military is also fundamentally different then the American military, culture wise.

Also, are you willing to see some regulations/laws rewritten to make us feel better about CAP? Doesn't Congress set caps on the number of officers/EM's that the Air Force can have? Would you want to go through that effort to change those laws and caps?

I think that having a college degree to be an officer or rise to field grades in CAP might be nice but it may not be practicable.  I would point out that I do not have a bachelors degree myself. Just an associates and a buttload of credits towards a bachelors.

Why? I mean, I just finished my third semester of school, and I haven't learned anything that'll help me with CAP. If we have issues with the Professional Development, lets fix them. Deciding that only guys who went to college can be field grade officers is elitist crap in this outfit.

I see CAP not as a replacment to the Air Force but as the next best thing.

But CAP and the regular Air Force are such widely different things that you really can't compare.

Ideally I would want to be able to do the same thing for the Air Force that i do for the Coast Guard as an Auxxie: AUGMENT. Because I think that many CAP types myself included could serve a useful purpose on base.

Are you sure?

I think this has been brought up, but does the Air Force really need augmenting? Would a few volunteers really make much of a difference?

[Hawk200]

I think this has been brought up, but does the Air Force really need augmenting? Would a few volunteers really make much of a difference?

Just so I understand your viewpoint, define "a few".

[JayT]

I think this has been brought up, but does the Air Force really need augmenting? Would a few volunteers really make much of a difference?

Just so I understand your viewpoint, define "a few".

Well, lets say that we do put in place some sort of Air Force Base augment program. How many of our members would/could really partipate? And how could they really help?

From my limited experience, all of the Coast Guard stations in my area are small bases, with a pretty small number of Guardsmen. I can see how an additional twenty or what ever USCGAux guys could help there. But could twenty or thirty CAPers really help out much on...lets say Andrews or Mountain Home AFB?

If CAP members had the option of helping out regular Air Force units, what could they do? Paperwork? JAG work? Make coffee? Clean the buildings? Is that stuff that the Air Force really has a crushing shortage of personal in?

[Walkman]

If CAP members had the option of helping out regular Air Force units, what could they do? Paperwork? JAG work? Make coffee? Clean the buildings? Is that stuff that the Air Force really has a crushing shortage of personal in?

If there was a way to be involved in helping Big Blue, I'd be in . Hill AFB is about 45 minutes from me. I don't know what I could do to help, but I'd be willing.

[Hawk200]

I think this has been brought up, but does the Air Force really need augmenting? Would a few volunteers really make much of a difference?

Just so I understand your viewpoint, define "a few".

Well, lets say that we do put in place some sort of Air Force Base augment program. How many of our members would/could really partipate? And how could they really help?

From my limited experience, all of the Coast Guard stations in my area are small bases, with a pretty small number of Guardsmen. I can see how an additional twenty or what ever USCGAux guys could help there. But could twenty or thirty CAPers really help out much on...lets say Andrews or Mountain Home AFB?

If CAP members had the option of helping out regular Air Force units, what could they do? Paperwork? JAG work? Make coffee? Clean the buildings? Is that stuff that the Air Force really has a crushing shortage of personal in?

So, what's your definition of "a few"?

Technically, I didn't actually ask before, so here's an actual question.

[RiverAux]

Getting off topic a bit...

[JayT]

I think this has been brought up, but does the Air Force really need augmenting? Would a few volunteers really make much of a difference?

Just so I understand your viewpoint, define "a few".

Well, lets say that we do put in place some sort of Air Force Base augment program. How many of our members would/could really partipate? And how could they really help?

From my limited experience, all of the Coast Guard stations in my area are small bases, with a pretty small number of Guardsmen. I can see how an additional twenty or what ever USCGAux guys could help there. But could twenty or thirty CAPers really help out much on...lets say Andrews or Mountain Home AFB?

If CAP members had the option of helping out regular Air Force units, what could they do? Paperwork? JAG work? Make coffee? Clean the buildings? Is that stuff that the Air Force really has a crushing shortage of personal in?

So, what's your definition of "a few"?

Technically, I didn't actually ask before, so here's an actual question.

I'm fairly certain I answered that. If you want an actual number, you have your pick between One and about Fifty Thousand.

[thuglife99]

Just out of curiosity, doesn't the CG aux have no rank?  Would many of you be willing to go to something like this, just be called AUX and still have Squadron commanders and such but have no rank. 

Probably not.  I guarantee there would be a hailstorm of complaints.

If a SM would do his job regardless of the uniform he was in, or if he thought the AF was watching, or if people thought he was AF when they saw him from a distance, then they are not a wannabe. 

[Stonewall]

Just out of curiosity, doesn't the CG aux have no rank?  Would many of you be willing to go to something like this, just be called AUX and still have Squadron commanders and such but have no rank. 

Probably not.  I guarantee there would be a hailstorm of complaints.

If a SM would do his job regardless of the uniform he was in, or if he thought the AF was watching, or if people thought he was AF when they saw him from a distance, then they are not a wannabe. 

As I have said before, many people prefer CAP over other activities and organizations because of the military-like structure, to include things like rank and uniforms.  Do I need rank to perform the job of commander?  Do I need rank to be a ground branch director; an observer?  No.  But in CAP, rank, uniforms, command structure is all a part of the program like it or not.  Coolest thing is, you do not have to get rank.  You can remain a senior member without rank and no one will say a thing, unless you want to be a commander. 

[LittleIronPilot]

Just out of curiosity, doesn't the CG aux have no rank?  Would many of you be willing to go to something like this, just be called AUX and still have Squadron commanders and such but have no rank. 

Probably not.  I guarantee there would be a hailstorm of complaints.

If a SM would do his job regardless of the uniform he was in, or if he thought the AF was watching, or if people thought he was AF when they saw him from a distance, then they are not a wannabe. 

As I have said before, many people prefer CAP over other activities and organizations because of the military-like structure, to include things like rank and uniforms.  Do I need rank to perform the job of commander?  Do I need rank to be a ground branch director; an observer?  No.  But in CAP, rank, uniforms, command structure is all a part of the program like it or not.  Coolest thing is, you do not have to get rank.  You can remain a senior member without rank and no one will say a thing, unless you want to be a commander. 

Excellent points Stonewall.