Here is one to ponder...Would you burn your CAP uniform?

[Major Carrales]

Bear with me...it starts with an unlikely scenario... (The POLITICS is not the point especially since it is totally fictional, but rather your actions in the aftermath)

In March of 2012, a revolution in Mexico brings forth a sort of National Socialist movement that takes power  and immediately negates NAFTA assuming an Anti-American posture.  The US attempts to intervene, but internal pressures after the recent withdrawl of US troops from the Middle East makes it an unpopular move.

In September of that year, Venezuela and Mexico begin a major Anti-American push and culminate it with a Conquest of Central America.   These nations are well armed and are totally militarized.  US military action is threatened, however, anti-war forces are in power and a prolonged war in Central America is dismissed as having no bearing on US interests.  Panama, Nicaraugua, Honduras and Guatamala FALL!

In Mid-2014, with help from Separatists in the Southwest, disrupt the Southwest to the point that a successful invasion of South Texas, New Mexico, parts of Arizona and Southern California are occupied.  It turns out to be folly on the part of the Mexican-Venezuelan Alliance, however, the US has difficulty retaking the area due to obvious issues related to the Civilian population.

The Southwestern US is OCCUPIED...albeit, it is likely to be temporary (a year or so) 

There is a CAP uniform hanging in your closet.  Do you burn it?  What might they do to you? Would you fight?  resistance? Collaboration?

What would you do?

[JC004]

Invade Brazil and take back our seal.

[♠SARKID♠]

Wow sir, way to get the creative juices going!  I'd keep the uniform and fight back.  Burning it would just mean that you're trying to hide from the invaders.  Backing down like that is something I'd never do.  Americans aren't the kind of people that would retreat from that kind of an attack.  Two Americans can debate a war on foreign soil till the cows come home, but an invasion? On our turf?  I don't think theres a soul in the country that would stand for that.  Keep the uniform.  Wear it for all to see.  And if the invaders don't like it, I'd go down with my name on my chest, my boots on my feet, and a flag on my sleeve.

Invade Brazil and take back our seal.

That too.

[Major Carrales]

Invade Brazil and take back our seal.

Would you burn your uniform?  ..or wear it proudly?  Let's not derail this with such tangents...it is a very interesting philosophical debate.

Does one turn their back on their National Pride to survive...or cling to it.  Is the Pledge of Alligience merely words...or, is it a pledge to the Republic for all times?

[Major Carrales]

Wow sir, way to get the creative juices going!  I'd keep the uniform and fight back.  Burning it would just mean that you're trying to hide from the invaders.  Backing down like that is something I'd never do.  Americans aren't the kind of people that would retreat from that kind of an attack.  Two Americans can debate a war on foreign soil till the cows come home, but an invasion? On our turf?  I don't think theres a soul in the country that would stand for that.  Keep the uniform.  Wear it for all to see.  And if the invaders don't like it, I'd go down with my name on my chest, my boots on my feet, and a flag on my sleeve.

There is a good chance you could be rounded up and shot as a sabotuer...or labeled enemy combatant.    As they trample your 4th Amendment Rights and ransack your closet to find your blues, service coat.  My service cap.  The BDUs with the American Flag.  You CAP id...you are a paramilitary radical. 

You might need "re-education."

[RiverAux]

WOLVERINES!!!!

[♠SARKID♠]

There is a good chance you could be rounded up and shot as a sabotuer...or labeled enemy combatant.    As they trample your 4th Amendment Rights and ransack your closet to find your blues, service coat.  My service cap.  The BDUs with the American Flag.  You CAP id...you are a paramilitary radical. 

You might need "re-education."

I may sound crazy, but I'd take that over an occupation. 

[Major Carrales]

WOLVERINES!!!!

I was trying to avoid that.  I don't want this thread locked.

It is a question of character.

There have been traitors since the dawn of this nation, including "the most brilliant soldier of the Continental Army."   I want to know what people would really do if it came down to CAP could get you shot.  

I know many of you live for CAP...would you die for it?

[RiverAux]

I answered your question.

[SoCalCAPOfficer]

One would hope that there would be widespread resistance.   However, a lot of the younger population has not been raised with the same since of national pride and tradition that many of us grey beards have.   Therefore, I can only speak for myself.
I would probably carry my uniforms and my guns and try and get a hold of an airplane to fly to the unoccupied portion of the United States and offer to help in what ever capacity I could.   The Uniform would be the least of my worries as I keep a large collection of guns and ammunition.  I would either have to hide them all, offer them to those that want to resist, or try and take them with me in an escape attempt by air,  4 wheel drive, or motorcycle.   I would not burn my uniform or my flag, since having the guns would probably be considered a worse offense and I would be up the creek either way.  Might as well go down with my pride intact.  At least thats what I hope I would do.  One never knows until you actually face the test.

[Major Carrales]

I answered your question.

I know, but there are some moderators here that lock topics that seem to drift into popular culture.  I want to keep this an upper level thinking activity.

In all honestly, I think I would be killed in the first days of the invasion.  Not likely to survive into the occupation part.  I would likely try to get my wife and children (then there will be two girls, we have one on the way now)  I would be part of the tolken resistance armed with .22 caliber weapons and an assortment of hunting rifles, buying time for them to get as far North as possible.

I doubt they could launch an invasion that would "canvass" South Texas.  In fact, I think they might use lots of heavy bombing of key points of infrastructure.  The roll in some thing like a division.  Appoint a "governor" of let's say the Corpus Christi District with smaller units garrisoning places like my hometown.  About 300 soldiers could properly garrision Premont, Texas.  They would keep local authorities in charge...albiet under coersion.

These unit would be quite stressed and make it apoint to use the day time to search civilian homes for weapons...evidence of "trouble makers."

Those of you more "European" types would likley fair better than a person like myself...likely viewed in that situation as a "traitor to my people."  That would likey find me made an example of.

If I could not get my family out, I think my wife would likely burn my uniforms.  

[Major Carrales]

 One never knows until you actually face the test.

Very wise observation, indeed.  It is easy to make grandiose PATRIOTIC statements here...when we sit in comfort infront of our computers.  What if there is a platoon of enemy soldiers camped in the empty lot next to your house?

They participate in various degrees of harassment to you and your family by day.  You meet the occasional "good hearted and kind" enemy that is just their doing their duty...as well as the mad psycopath that want's to slit your throat and rape your wife.

Food is rationed...the US could counterattack at anytime.  A fact that likely will wear down the civilized elements of the occupiers.

 

[Major Carrales]

One would hope that there would be widespread resistance.   However, a lot of the younger population has not been raised with the same since of national pride and tradition that many of us grey beards have.   Therefore, I can only speak for myself.

We should ask cadets about that, about how their peers might react.

Many kids really have such apathy and ignorance that they might be a dangerous element even to their families.  Already, kids misbehave at Veteran's Day assemblies and ock the Pledge and other ceremonies.  Many can't even abide by a simpel dress code.

We were all raised in relative domestic peace.  None of us had to fear our neighborhood in rubble like Brits during the blitz or like those areas of Israel where bombs go off and disrupt and kill those of both sides.

[Major Carrales]

If the modern senario is too...politcally  charged or comes off as too "RED DAWN."

Let's shift it back along the timeline.  It's WWII, Normandy's outcome is not as it is in our timeline.  Operation Overlord fails.  The Japanese mount an invasion of the West Coast.

England falls...The Axis controls the American Southwest and the Pacific Coast to the Rocky Mountains.

Nazi and Japanese zones occupy these sectors.   The US is fighting back, but you are behind the frontlines and will likely stay there for a year to a year and a half.  The Japanese have discovered US Internment camps for Japanese Americans and Alamogordo is in enemy hands...although totally "slashed and burned" by retreating US forces.  We have the bomb, but no way to deploy it to Japanese targets.

You have a set of pinks-'n-greens with red eapulets and CAP cutouts hanging in your closet.  SS Occupation forces raid your house...

Do you burn it?  What might they do to you? Would you fight?  resistance? Collaboration?

What would you do?

[Al Sayre]

First I would thank God that I live in Mississippi, proudly put my uniform on, open up my gun lockers and arm my family and neighbors (the few that don't own more guns than me), round up every redneck I can find and form a resistance, likely heading for the Bayou's along the Mississippi River.  The Japanese and Germans are unlikely to want to pursue a bunch of armed rednecks into the alligator infested swamps (At least not more than once ).  Some of  todays youth are apathetic apolitical ignorant politically correct metrosexuals, but not in this part of the country, I don't think there would be any shortage of volunteers for the resistance...

[♠SARKID♠]

Some of  todays youth are apathetic apolitical ignorant politically correct metrosexuals, but not in this part of the country

any kids really have such apathy and ignorance that they might be a dangerous element even to their families.

You know, not everybody on this board is a senior member.  I don't appreciate you generalizing the youth as lazy and apathetic (Mods, plz dont lock the thread ).  If you think that we would just sit idly by during a massive invasion or revolution your dead @%$*ing wrong.  Many kids are apathetic because their rights and freedoms have never been directly challenged.  Therefore, they hold little value in celebrating the people who fought for those rights.  But if you think for one second that we would pay no attention to a war on our freedoms, families, and homes you've got another thing coming.  You can bet we'd be armed to the teeth ready to fight for what we believe in.

[floridacyclist]

WOLVERINES!!!!

I was scrolling to the end to say the exact same thing when I saw that you beat me to it! LOL

[DHollywood]

Wow.... this is like a certain religion conspiracy theory....

Prior to any of this happening I would be wearing ACU's and armed with issued weapons and kit.  I wouldnt be fighting in a CAP uniform...  we are not armed. 

I would, with no hesitation, take up arms with my infantry brothers and do the job...

[dougsnow]

What was that tacky early 80s movie I remember seeing with my girlfriend when I was in my teens? - Red Dawn? A tacky early 80s movie about Ivan invading the US.

Yeah, I would be in the resistance, or in someway rise in armed insurrection against the invaders, and since blues wouldnt be a good thing to wear traipsing around in the woods, I would probably be wearing the BDUs.  I still remember sight alignment and sight picture lessons from Ft Leonard Wood M16 weapons qualification

Granted, I have no idea where I would get an M-40 Sniper Rifle, or an M16A2, but, I could come up with something

[Nomex Maximus]

Oh gosh... what would I do...

Sort of depends what side of the occupied area I am on, but , oh gosh, the enemy does NOT want me as a member of the resistance.

I am a cranky old software engineer and an airplane builder. I can think of ALL SORTS of weird-ass guerilla warfare weapons and boobytraps that I could quickly build and just start harrassing and murdering  the *&^% out of occupying forces. You think the Iraqis know how to build roadside bombs? Wait until you see the weird computer controlled boobytraps I can think up and deploy on my own. Or small UAVs that can fly in an explosive to almost anywhere.  All undetectable and untraceable.  Or autonomous computer controller sniper rifles - just set it up somewhere and let it hold down a platoon while they get picked off one by one for hours. Don't even get me started on chemical weapons I could deploy from UAVs...

To answer your question about the uniform and the implied participation in CAP, in this kind of a scenario I think my service to CAP would be unimportant. If I were in the occupied area I would burn it as I don't need to be identified as being associated with the US government. If not in the occupied area, I think I would be too busy as a defense software engineer to be engaging in private guerilla warfare.  But if I WERE involved, hoo-boy look out!

[floridacyclist]

I might consider taking the patches off or taping over them to increase the effectiveness of the camouflage....needless to say, I wouldn't worry about weight limits for camo as long as I can get in them, which I can. In that scenario, It probably wouldn't take long for me to reach teh limits anyway LOL

As far as weapons, thankfully we still live in a country that allows us to keep and arm bears...or something like that. Hopefully whatever we had would hold us over till we got our hands on some AKs or whatever "they" were using.

I don't think we would stand and fight as that sounds like suicide..but there's an awful lot of swamp to disappear in up here.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Dude... I SO want to be an insurgent!

The Iraqi insurgency is run by rank amateurs.  You want to occupy where I live?  Bring it!  I'll show you how an insurgency SHOULD be conducted.

Within 6 months the foreign savages will be skulking back to their third-world dung heaps with what's left of their tails between their collective legs.

And I would not worry about all that "The CAP is not armed" nonsense.  If we are occupied by a foreign power, who's gonna start the 2b paperwork?

After the foreigners are thrown out, then we will deal with the American traitors who supported them.  The law provides for a special trial procedure:

1.  Get a rope.

2.  Tie one end of the rope to a tree, the other end to the neck of the alleged traitor.

3.  Place the alleged traitor on a horse.

4.  Slap the horse's butt real hard to make it run.

5.  If the rope stays slack, the defendant is found not guilty.

[Pylon]

Seriously folks, stop smoking crack.  It's bad for your health.

[davedove]

Well, since I don't live in those areas, I would continue my work as an Army civilian and support any effort that way.  Continuing in CAP would be another way to give my support.

Now, if I were living in the areas, I would probably get rid of the uniforms.  If they are checking for American supporters I wouldn't want to be identified.  To form a good resistance, you have to look like everyone else.

[Nomex Maximus]

You and me Kach!!!

[AlphaSigOU]

Dude... I SO want to be an insurgent! ...After the foreigners are thrown out, then we will deal with the American traitors who supported them.  The law provides for a special trial procedure:

1.  Get a rope.

2.  Tie one end of the rope to a tree, the other end to the neck of the alleged traitor.

3.  Place the alleged traitor on a horse.

4.  Slap the horse's butt real hard to make it run.

5.  If the rope stays slack, the defendant is found not guilty.

You forgot the six-pack for the hanging party. 

[Nomex Maximus]

Dude... I SO want to be an insurgent! ...After the foreigners are thrown out, then we will deal with the American traitors who supported them.  The law provides for a special trial procedure:

1.  Get a rope.

2.  Tie one end of the rope to a tree, the other end to the neck of the alleged traitor.

3.  Place the alleged traitor on a horse.

4.  Slap the horse's butt real hard to make it run.

5.  If the rope stays slack, the defendant is found not guilty.

You forgot the six-pack for the hanging party. 

CAP Regs clearly state that no alcohol is to be consumed in the presence of cadets.

[AlphaSigOU]

Dude... I SO want to be an insurgent! ...After the foreigners are thrown out, then we will deal with the American traitors who supported them.  The law provides for a special trial procedure:

1.  Get a rope.

2.  Tie one end of the rope to a tree, the other end to the neck of the alleged traitor.

3.  Place the alleged traitor on a horse.

4.  Slap the horse's butt real hard to make it run.

5.  If the rope stays slack, the defendant is found not guilty.

You forgot the six-pack for the hanging party. 

CAP Regs clearly state that no alcohol is to be consumed in the presence of cadets.

Yea... but I didn't specify alcoholic beverages... cadinks, the root beer's over yonder! 

[A.Member]

So, in the land of make believe.... 

Worst thread ever?  Possibly.

[Dragoon]

Two separate questions:

1.  Resist? - You betcha

2.  Resist as a CAP member in uniform?  - Why?  CAP is for ES and cadets, not fighting.  There's virtually no reason to organize a resistance around the Civil Air Patrol - best to start from scratch.  And those full color patches will get you killed!


Plus, do you really want the National Board coordinating the defense of this nation?   

[Trung Si Ma]

As an Army retiree, do I finally get to add the star to my CIB?

Seriously, (OK semi-seriously) my military background would get me activated quickly and I'm sure that the rust would come off of some of those skills learned at Camp McCall years ago.

Katz is right about the amount of problems that many of the American people would provide an occupying power.  Our historical version of civil disobedience would transcend to a plane not seen on this continent since the early 1860's.  It takes a very strong military discipline to remain coherent when facing a protracted guerrilla campaign.  The forces mentioned do not have that discipline as a military culture.

An academic question to be sure - but not a complete one.  Even those who would yell "Chiu Oy  ... me be Kit Carson" have clothes in their closet with an American flag on them (usually sewn to their fourth point of contact).  They would quickly find themselves in the same boat.

[RogueLeader]

I know many of you live for CAP...would you die for it?

No. I would not die for CAP, but I would die for the USA, and I would be more than proud to do it in a CAP uniform.  However, it would be far more likely that I'll have my guns out and fighting as well.  Means I wouldn't be in CAP uniform, but oh well.

[davedove]

However, it would be far more likely that I'll have my guns out and fighting as well.  Means I wouldn't be in CAP uniform, but oh well.

Of course you wouldn't be in uniform.  CAP, by regs, is not supposed to be armed.  So, if you wore your CAP uniform while fighting you would be subject to disciplinary action.

[JohnKachenmeister]

As an Army retiree, do I finally get to add the star to my CIB?

Seriously, (OK semi-seriously) my military background would get me activated quickly and I'm sure that the rust would come off of some of those skills learned at Camp McCall years ago.

Katz is right about the amount of problems that many of the American people would provide an occupying power.  Our historical version of civil disobedience would transcend to a plane not seen on this continent since the early 1860's.  It takes a very strong military discipline to remain coherent when facing a protracted guerrilla campaign.  The forces mentioned do not have that discipline as a military culture.

An academic question to be sure - but not a complete one.  Even those who would yell "Chiu Oy  ... me be Kit Carson" have clothes in their closet with an American flag on them (usually sewn to their fourth point of contact).  They would quickly find themselves in the same boat.

The safe conduct passes I saw said "Chieu Hoi."  If they were yelling Chiu Oy, you must have run into those Jewish NVA guys.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Dude... I SO want to be an insurgent! ...After the foreigners are thrown out, then we will deal with the American traitors who supported them.  The law provides for a special trial procedure:

1.  Get a rope.

2.  Tie one end of the rope to a tree, the other end to the neck of the alleged traitor.

3.  Place the alleged traitor on a horse.

4.  Slap the horse's butt real hard to make it run.

5.  If the rope stays slack, the defendant is found not guilty.

You forgot the six-pack for the hanging party. 

CAP Regs clearly state that no alcohol is to be consumed in the presence of cadets.

Silly!

The cadets have to chase the horse down to recover it before the next trial!

[Lancer]

So, in the land of make believe.... 

Worst thread ever?  Possibly.

"Have fun storming the castle!" - Miracle Max

[Major Carrales]

I don't appreciate you generalizing the youth as lazy and apathetic (Mods, plz dont lock the thread ).  If you think that we would just sit idly by during a massive invasion or revolution your dead @%$*ing wrong. 

That does not address the fact that, in many places, it is true.   I don't limit that comment to the youth of our Nation, but to the population in general.

That is why I place lots of emphasis on CADET PROGRAMs.  Youth need to be developed into productive citizens of their nation.  Right now many turn to gangs and other "counter cultures" to fit in.  In a world where youngsters fit in more with "thug nasty" cutlure than care to stand during the National Anthem; A world where the schoolboy is the looser and the pimp is the goal.


Tell me it ain't so and I'll retract my comments.

[Walkman]

I'd wear the BDUs and fight/assist where possible, AFTER I got my wife & 5 kids to safety (if I were in the occupied area). The only reason I'd wear the BDUs is 'cause I have no prior military service, so they're all I got. Thinkin' I'd do something to tone down the blue tapes, but I'm not going to cover up the flag.

<chuckle>
To paraphrase (and tweak) a quote from Casablanca:
Major Heinze: Can you image us (The Nazis) in London?
Rick: When you get there, ask me
Heinze: How about TEXAS
Rick: Well there are certain sections of TEXAS that I wouldn't advise you to invade

I'm trying to picture ANY enemy having any progress at all trying to invade Texas.
</chuckle>

[Nomex Maximus]

I know many of you live for CAP...would you die for it?

No. I would not die for CAP, but I would die for the USA, and I would be more than proud to do it in a CAP uniform.  However, it would be far more likely that I'll have my guns out and fighting as well.  Means I wouldn't be in CAP uniform, but oh well.

I believe General Patton said something like, "No bastard has ever won a war by dying for his country. You win a war by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his."

[SoCalCAPOfficer]

 In a world where youngsters fit in more with "thug nasty" cutlure than care to stand during the National Anthem; A world where the schoolboy is the looser and the pimp is the goal.


Tell me it ain't so and I'll retract my comments.

SARKID no disrespect meant to you and other cadets.  However, Major Carrales hit the nail on the head with that quote.   When I was a teenager we lived under the threat of nuclear attack, so we practiced Civil Defense drills at school, we started the day with the pledge of allegiance, we were nationalistic and it was considered a good thing.  Today, the youth are taught that the United States is the problem, that it is better to negotiate rather than fight, and that multiculturalism is the way.   So is it any wonder, we older Americans might have a little trepidation as to how the youth of America might react to an invasion?

[Nomex Maximus]

WOLVERINES!!!!

I don't get it. And I'm from Michigan.

[MIKE]

Watch Red Dawn

[Major Carrales]

The point of the matter is not "wearing CAP uniforms" as an insurgency, but rather merely having one in your closet.

Supposed I left my uniform at my parent's home, then they got raided and summarily executed my dad as a sympathizer?

Or, suppose you are a CAP member and just have one.  Would you destroy it?  Hide it?

I don't think anyone would blatantly wear it in public unless you were trying to be some sort of sacrifice.

Let's take it a step further...let's leave out the UNIFORM model.  How about merely CAP membership.  Could that get you placed in a camp?

[SoCalCAPOfficer]

WOLVERINES!!!!

I don't get it. And I'm from Michigan.

Thats a quote from "Red Dawn"  a movie about teenagers in Colorado fighting an invasion of Cubans backed by Russians.  "Wolverines" was the name of their football team and became their battle cry.   Totally unrealistic, but it was a great movie in showing patriotism and classic American response to tyranny.  It was an in your face throw back (similar to the movies of the 40's and 50's), against the peace movement in this country in the 70's and 80's.  

The Hollywood establishment was not pleased with this movie.  Since it also was against gun control, as it showed how the invading forces went to the gun stores and went through the files to find out who owned guns and then took them prisoner or killed them.   The movie showed how a few kids with hunting rifles could capture better weapons from the enemy and become a small but powerful insurgent force.

[Walkman]

How about merely CAP membership.  Could that get you placed in a camp?

Most likely, IMO. The invaders would see "US AIR FORCE AUXILIARY" and categorize us as a military unit. They aren't going to know that we're a ES unit, just that we have an affiliation.

If I'm in occupied territory, the first thing I'm doing is getting my family out to safety. I'm thinking in the rush that CAP stuff will just stay in the closet while I only the essentials are packed. Once they are safe though, I'd try to help wherever I can, in or out of uniform. If I were able to join a resistance unit, I'd wear the BDUs.

[Walkman]

I don't get it. And I'm from Michigan.

Hey, me too (originally)

Thats a quote from "Red Dawn"  a movie about teenagers in Colorado fighting an invasion of Cubans backed by Russians.  "Wolverines" was the name of their football team and became their battle cry.   Totally unrealistic, but it was a great movie in showing patriotism and classic American response to tyranny.  It was an in your face throw back (similar to the movies of the 40's and 50's), against the peace movement in this country in the 70's and 80's.   

The Hollywood establishment was not pleased with this movie.  Since it also was against gun control, as it showed how the invading forces went to the gun stores and went through the files to find out who owned guns and then took them prisoner or killed them.   The movie showed how a few kids with hunting rifles could capture better weapons from the enemy and become a small but powerful insurgent force.

My buddies and TOTALLY were into that movie!

[Major Carrales]

Thats a quote from "Red Dawn"  a movie about teenagers in Colorado fighting an invasion of Cubans backed by Russians.  "Wolverines" was the name of their football team and became their battle cry.   Totally unrealistic, but it was a great movie in showing patriotism and classic American response to tyranny.  It was an in your face throw back (similar to the movies of the 40's and 50's), against the peace movement in this country in the 70's and 80's.  

The Hollywood establishment was not pleased with this movie.  Since it also was against gun control, as it showed how the invading forces went to the gun stores and went through the files to find out who owned guns and then took them prisoner or killed them.   The movie showed how a few kids with hunting rifles could capture better weapons from the enemy and become a small but powerful insurgent force.

And this was not the point of the thread, really.  I had been reading about how former members of the Hitler Youth had been treated in post war Germany...since joining was compulsory.  Pope Benedict XVI was a member of the Hitler Youth.

I then looked over at my service coat, back from the cleaners and duded up with CAP insignia, which was haning behind the door and wondered what I might do if we had been invaded.   I thought I would see how others would feel about it.

I don't really think it would/could happen...but we live in a world that is 90% empty rethoric and 10% smoke and mirrors.  When we say we love our nation...that we would defend it; I wonder what it would be like it we were defending it AT HOME (any and all of us, the best and worst).  Or if we lost it all, at least for a while, to what levels we might rise...or sink.

[Nomex Maximus]

I don't get it. And I'm from Michigan.

Hey, me too (originally)

Thats a quote from "Red Dawn"  a movie about teenagers in Colorado fighting an invasion of Cubans backed by Russians.  "Wolverines" was the name of their football team and became their battle cry.   Totally unrealistic, but it was a great movie in showing patriotism and classic American response to tyranny.  It was an in your face throw back (similar to the movies of the 40's and 50's), against the peace movement in this country in the 70's and 80's.   

The Hollywood establishment was not pleased with this movie.  Since it also was against gun control, as it showed how the invading forces went to the gun stores and went through the files to find out who owned guns and then took them prisoner or killed them.   The movie showed how a few kids with hunting rifles could capture better weapons from the enemy and become a small but powerful insurgent force.

My buddies and TOTALLY were into that movie!

Now, I think the movie that our Cadets should really be made to watch is "Taps".

[BlackKnight]

Seriously folks, stop smoking crack.  It's bad for your health.

This thread needs a poll.         And a drug test.

[Walkman]

When we say we love our nation...that we would defend it; I wonder what it would be like it we were defending it AT HOME (any and all of us, the best and worst).  Or if we lost it all, at least for a while, to what levels we might rise...or sink.

In all honesty, I think a large chunk of Americans would do something to help. Today being the 9/11 anniversary, look back on how patriotically the nation reacted. We went into Afganistan with pretty much full support from the people. Even my former hippy and very liberal parents had US Flags all over the place. We may all have our political differences, but there seems to be something in the American psyche that we stick together in tragedies. People from Washington came to help N'awlins rebuild. Deep down, there is a bond. Yeah, there are some who would turn tail and run, but did you hear anyone talk that way on Sept. 12th?

[pixelwonk]

Hey, he said hitler.  Can we Godwin this puppy?

[♠SARKID♠]

I had been reading about how former members of the Hitler Youth had been treated in post war Germany...since joining was compulsory.  Pope Benedict XVI was a member of the Hitler Youth.

***BAD ANALOGY ALERT!  BAD ANALOGY ALERT!! DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER! DANGER!***

Hey, he said hitler.  Can we Godwin this puppy?

I think so tedda.

[Nomex Maximus]

Hey, he said hitler.  Can we Godwin this puppy?

"CAN WE GODWIN THIS PUPPY?"

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

If you wish to participate in these discussions please speak English, it is the official language of CAP.

[SoCalCAPOfficer]

In all honesty, I think a large chunk of Americans would do something to help. Today being the 9/11 anniversary, look back on how patriotically the nation reacted. We went into Afganistan with pretty much full support from the people. Even my former hippy and very liberal parents had US Flags all over the place. We may all have our political differences, but there seems to be something in the American psyche that we stick together in tragedies. People from Washington came to help N'awlins rebuild. Deep down, there is a bond. Yeah, there are some who would turn tail and run, but did you hear anyone talk that way on Sept. 12th?

Unfortunately, you make my point.   After 9/11 everyone seemed gung ho.  However, Americans today have no staying power.   When the war wasn't over in a matter of months the complaints started.   Even though this war has the lowest casualty rates in history, considering the time spent in theatre, people say the toll is too high and we must get out.   If this attitude had been prevalent in WWII we would be speaking German or Japanese today.

[Nomex Maximus]

Unfortunately, you make my point.   After 9/11 everyone seemed gung ho.  However, Americans today have no staying power.   When the war wasn't over in a matter of months the complaints started.   Even though this war has the lowest casualty rates in history, considering the time spent in theatre, people say the toll is too high and we must get out.   If this attitude had been prevalent in WWII we would be speaking German or Japanese today.

OK, I don't mean to get political here and I don't want to ruffle any feathers. I believe the issue right now has much more to do with the mis-management of the war than anything else. I voted for the present CIC but he has made a massive mess of the "War On Terror". If the Iraq war had been better thought out and executed, I think our youth would be much more willing to go and fight it.

How about some cadets chime in here?

[pixelwonk]

Hey, he said hitler.  Can we Godwin this puppy?

"CAN WE GODWIN THIS PUPPY?"

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

No, you may not "Godwin this puppy". If you do so we will report you to the appropriate animal anti-cruely authorities.  And if you wish to participate in these discussions please speak English, it is the official language of CAP.

meh. n00bs.
mouth feeding them one thread at a time.

[Walkman]

How about some cadets chime in here?

I think this speaks a bit to the topic, regarding those who would serve and cadets. This is the article our local paper just ran about our cadets. They were doing a story about how the ROTC program at Utah State is growing when others are not, and asked about getting the thoughts of some of our cadets that had plans to serve in the military (my son Gabriel & I are quoted at the end  ).

Civil Air Patrol gives teens a taste of military life

By Aaron Falk staff writer

Brayden Mickelson stands in front of his unit and gives an order.

"Yes, first sergeant!" the cadets say in unison to their 15-year-old leader.

In a time when an unpopular war has been blamed for some branches of the armed services missing their recruiting goals, Mickelson and the rest of the teenagers in the Civil Air Patrol, an auxiliary of the Air Force, meet weekly. Though CAP does not require any military service commitment, most in the group say they want to enlist.

"Since I was 4, I knew this was something I was supposed to do," said Ben Christensen, a good-natured kid with a buzz cut and a toothy grin.
A senior at Mountain Crest High School, Christensen is the son of a Vietnam veteran and will turn 18 in January. He plans on enlisting, "going infantry," as soon as he graduates next spring.

"My parents want me to go to college, but this just feels like something I have to do," he said. "I'm not very good at school."
Most of his friends also plan on enlisting, he said. Still he knows that's not the norm for kids his age.

"I don't think it's for me," said Stefani Lewis, a CAP cadet with a brother serving in Iraq. "I don't think I would enjoy it."

Joe Phippen, 21, is an adult CAP leader who attends Utah State University. Because the university does not have a Naval ROTC, Phippen plans on attending officer school when he graduates.

While he's seen more yellow ribbons, Phippen said he's seen a decline in interest in military service among people his age.
"It seems that everybody likes the military for somebody else to do," he said. "I don't really mind that. It keeps out people who don't want to be there. I wouldn't want to be next to a draftee. I would want to be there with someone else who wants to be there."

While the CAP cadets are young, they said they still have an understanding of the dangers of war.

"I'm still in that I think I'm invincible stage," Christensen said. "But if I don't do it, I can't ask someone else to do it for me."

"It makes you kind of nervous," 13-year-old Gabriel Walker said. "You have that risk of being killed, but I want to serve my country."

Walker said he wants to be a pilot in the Air Force, a thought that makes his father smile.

"I'd be very proud of him if he wants to serve," Kristian Walker said. "I think it says a lot about the maturity of these kids. Military service is service. It's a selfless thing to do."

[Nomex Maximus]

Hey, he said hitler.  Can we Godwin this puppy?

"CAN WE GODWIN THIS PUPPY?"

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

No, you may not "Godwin this puppy". If you do so we will report you to the appropriate animal anti-cruely authorities.  And if you wish to participate in these discussions please speak English, it is the official language of CAP.

meh. n00bs.
mouth feeding them one thread at a time.

OK, from the Wikipedia article itself:

"...The rule does not make any statement as to whether any particular reference or comparison to Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that one arising is increasingly probable..."

I assert that the use of the reference was in fact valid for the discussion.

[Pylon]

Seriously, you folks come up with a topic about insurgency, invasion of the U.S., and future wars on terror and you relate it back to what?  The friggin' CAP uniform.



This obsession with the CAP uniform needs to end.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Well, I don't know anyone named Godwin, and I don't know about any puppy, but...

In the 60's there WAS some resistance to starting a CAP glider-pilot training program because of the inevitable comparisons to the Hitler Youth programs.  For those who have no passion for history, the Hitler Youth trained teens in gliders, then transitioned them to powered aircraft when they subsequently joined the Luftwaffe.  The second-generation German jet fighter, the Volksjager, was designed for a direct transition from gliders into the jet fighter so the Hitler Youth guys could get into the fight before the Bunker got stormed.

I popped into the discussions about using CAP for various homeland defense missions, suggesting proceeding carefully.  We do not want to crerate the image that the defense of the US is down to "Old men and Hitler Youth."

[floridacyclist]

Now, I think the movie that our Cadets should really be made to watch is "Taps".

That was a good one that like Red Dawn, also brings back some memories. Not only did we live by those movies as cadets, we watched that one on my laptop in the staging area at the Punta Gorda EOC the morning after Charley. The two cadets with us on the RECON team thgouht it was the coolest thing since sliced bread.

[Eagle400]

In the 60's there WAS some resistance to starting a CAP glider-pilot training program because of the inevitable comparisons to the Hitler Youth programs.  For those who have no passion for history, the Hitler Youth trained teens in gliders, then transitioned them to powered aircraft when they subsequently joined the Luftwaffe.  The second-generation German jet fighter, the Volksjager, was designed for a direct transition from gliders into the jet fighter so the Hitler Youth guys could get into the fight before the Bunker got stormed.

That's because the 60's saw the rise of political correctness and social engineering.  Who cares what the Nazis did?  There's no comparison between the glider program of CAP and the glider program of the Luftwaffe/Hitler Youth, except that they both used gliders. 

The whole comparing the CAP glider program to the Nazi glider program is a bunch of tripe being harvested by people who never liked CAP in the first place and are trying to keep the organization down.  Of course, I can imagine that there were a lot of people like this in the 60's, with the whole anti-military thing going on. 

I popped into the discussions about using CAP for various homeland defense missions, suggesting proceeding carefully.  We do not want to crerate the image that the defense of the US is down to "Old men and Hitler Youth."

I wouldn't worry about it, Maj Kachenmeister.  Like I said, that "old men and Hitler Youth" argument is a bunch of tripe from the people who don't like CAP and want to see it disappear.  Good, educated people will be able to see that there are no comparisions between the CAP glider program and the Nazi glider program.  Two totally different organizations, two totally different objectives, two totally different sets of values.  The only comparison that I can see is that they both used gliders.     

[JohnKachenmeister]

You are correct in that both cognitions are triumphs of symbolism over substance.  I remember once a lawyer told me that when I handcuffed a black person, that I was reminding them of slavery, and that was justification for trying to resist and escape.  Same mentality.

[Major Carrales]

I had been reading about how former members of the Hitler Youth had been treated in post war Germany...since joining was compulsory.  Pope Benedict XVI was a member of the Hitler Youth.

Im not making an analogy between CAP cadets and the Nazis, but rather what would your action would be if the senario were true and something like a uniform or id card could get you singled out in an unsual circumstance.

Godwin is reserved for when people make direct references to Hitler or the NAZis that are stretches at best and intelelctually bogus at worst (you know like... "The National Commander is the new Hitler" or "Bush is NeoHitler" calling the USA "The Forth Reich" ) 

The idea for the thread came as the result of reading an article on Wikipedia and wondering.

[SAR-EMT1]

Getting Back to Topic

[pixelwonk]

looks like this one was dying out, actually.

[mikeylikey]

You are correct in that both cognitions are triumphs of symbolism over substance.  I remember once a lawyer told me that when I handcuffed a black person, that I was reminding them of slavery, and that was justification for trying to resist and escape.  Same mentality.

What............ how insane! It can easily be said that at one point or another in the history of the world, EVERYONES ancestors were at some time or another slaves of another group of people.  I am so sick of seeing that brought into modern day conversations by people who were never persecuted. 

I would ponder that the objections to starting a glider program were more political (hippie idiots) against a certain war starting in a certain Asian country. 

I wish we had a larger glider program.  I wish the AF sponsored a HUGE glider program, that was open to everyone, both Cadet and Senior.  I wish every single member could get at least one flight in a CAP airplane during the course of their volunteer career.  I think if we stopped limiting airplanes to only those members that are "buddy-buddy" with the Wing and Group commanders we could have more fun. 

What was this thread about anyway??

[SAR-EMT1]

I live in Illinois, but if the Amish ever revolt....

I would leave the CAP BDUs where they were. (Too visible)
Id put on my bullet proff vest (I work as an emt in a bad area)
Then Id get the steel pot and BDUs from my College ROTC days,
Then I'd get my AR-15, and make sure that my clips are loaded.
Then Id get my shotgun. Most folks will tell you to use double buck. I prefer Number four. You get more pellets without sacrificing the range. And any extremity hit with buckshot is going to be useless.
Id grab my CAP 72 hour gear (in a 'woodland' CPF 90 with sleeping bag, tent etc)
some extra rounds, some field stripped MREs, my gasmask and Tyvek chem suit, and fill my camelpak and canteens.

To deal with the "Plattoon across the street" Id put a D-cylinder Oxygen bottle into a piece of pipe... (Anyone who saw "the last castle" knows what Im talking about) -- that would fix their transport.  
Then Id just open up on the plattoon with my AR.
Whether I get hit or not is immaterial, Im not going to tollerate an invasion.

If Im not behind the lines, Id get the above gear and report to the nearest military unit to be of whatever assistance possible.

[A.Member]

Seriously, you folks come up with a topic about insurgency, invasion of the U.S., and future wars on terror and you relate it back to what?  The friggin' CAP uniform.



This obsession with the CAP uniform needs to end.

Amen, brother!   :clap: <--  I love that

[Johnny Yuma]

Bottom Line: Congratulations! You have almost perfectly described SHTF.

This is where us gun collector types grab our stuff and head for the hills humming Hank Williams Jr.'s song "A Country Boy can Survive".

Bring yous beans, bullets, bandages, beer, batteries and bullion!

[jpravain]

If a scenario like this happened, I would NOT sacrifice myself for a CAP uniform or any uniform for that matter. A uniform does NOT mean anything to me (anymore). I would fight for my family to the end. My patriotism has been "tarnished" due to our current political structure/status.

P.S. I already burned by uniform before I left CAP in 1996.

[ZigZag911]

Unfortunately, you make my point.   After 9/11 everyone seemed gung ho.  However, Americans today have no staying power.   When the war wasn't over in a matter of months the complaints started.   Even though this war has the lowest casualty rates in history, considering the time spent in theatre, people say the toll is too high and we must get out.   If this attitude had been prevalent in WWII we would be speaking German or Japanese today.

During WW2 American citizens on what was termed the 'homefront' served in Civil Defense, USOs, Red Cross....they held war bond sales, knitted scarves and socks for soldiers & sailors, organized scrap metal drives, learned first aid, worked as air raid wardens....some even served in the newly formed Civil Air Patrol!

Some of these activities were a true contribution to the war effort....others were  thought to be, but history has revealed that they were more morale builders than anything else (for instance, rubber and scrap metal drives).

In either case, people were made to feel that in some small way they were contributing to the defense of their country and the support of the troops who were fighting for them.

I disagree that contemporary Americans  simply lost interest due to short attention span -- unfortunately, for many reasons (ranging from the complexities of modern society to plain simple missing the boat) there seems to be little thought given in the corridors of power to keeping the American people focused and involved in their own protection.

Perhaps we need another FDR, Fiorello LaGuardia, Gill Robb Wilson, Ike, Patton, MacArthur, Bull Halsey, Hap Arnold, Jimmy Doolittle, Pappy Boyington....very different people all, but all seemingly capable of getting things done and also inspiring others.

[ZigZag911]

Oh, and replying to the topic:

1) I live in NJ, not the southwest....so wouldn't be too worried about hiding or
    wearing the CAP uniform....but I would be very worried about the citizens of this nation held hostage by hostile forces.....I think all of us would be obligated morally to do whatever we could to bring that situation to a speedy conclusion....not surre how I'd contribute, never been in the RM, don't own any weapons....but I'd certainly do whatever I could.

2) if I found myself in occupied territory with a uniform hanging in my closet, i'd probably leave it there for the protection of family, friends, and neighbors....civilian resisters don't generally call attention to themselves for precisely that reason....they engage in guerilla warfare to harass the enemy, assist the US  & allied military forces, gather intelligence.....I really think I'd only get out my uniform (and it's only gray & whites, my apologies!) either in celebration of victory , or in the event of a last ditch hopeless last stand.....if you're going to go down, it might as well by with al flags flying!

Frankly I find continued terrorism in our territory more likely than a full scale invasion....but the scenario is intriguing, Major Carrales, you ought to run it by a literary editor, i think you ahve the makings of a TOm CLancy novel there!

[Major Carrales]

Frankly I find continued terrorism in our territory more likely than a full scale invasion....but the scenario is intriguing, Major Carrales, you ought to run it by a literary editor, i think you ahve the makings of a TOm CLancy novel there!

Thank you, I consider that a great compliment.

Maybe I will write that into a story.

[SAR-EMT1]

Frankly I find continued terrorism in our territory more likely than a full scale invasion....but the scenario is intriguing, Major Carrales, you ought to run it by a literary editor, i think you ahve the makings of a TOm CLancy novel there!

Thank you, I consider that a great compliment.

Maybe I will write that into a story.

Invasion... the story of one CAP Officer   BEHIND        THE      LINES

Lt Col Doolitle: I dont know about the rest of you, but if Im hit, Im finding the best military target I could, order my scanner and observer out the door and then Im driving my Cessna 182 right into it and taking as many of those guys with me as I possible could. I was not made to be a prisoner of war.

[Major Carrales]

Frankly I find continued terrorism in our territory more likely than a full scale invasion....but the scenario is intriguing, Major Carrales, you ought to run it by a literary editor, i think you ahve the makings of a TOm CLancy novel there!

Thank you, I consider that a great compliment.

Maybe I will write that into a story.

Invasion... the story of one CAP Officer   BEHIND        THE      LINES

Lt Col Doolitle: I dont know about the rest of you, but if Im hit, Im finding the best military target I could, order my scanner and observer out the door and then Im driving my Cessna 182 right into it and taking as many of those guys with me as I possible could. I was not made to be a prisoner of war.

My dear fellows, this thread was not really about a "CAP centered insurgency," but rather the behaviors one would do in OCCUPIED AMERICA.  Am I to assume that, if this fiction (VAST FICTON), ever took place that we would unite in a solid resistance?

I think I should fight the "silent war," but not as a CAP officer.  But, as been said, we will never known until such a time as thsi was happening (God forbid). 

[SAR-EMT1]

A thought just occured to me. THe enemy would take our files out of squadron HQ. Read our names and addresses from the files and then track us and our families down for re-education camps. So in essence the question is: Would we go quietly?

[JC004]

...
1) I live in NJ
...

My deepest sympathies...

[trekkindave]

I just spent about 30 mins reading down this post... learned somethign about Godwin's Law (very intreaguing), and have decided to add in my two cents on the subject.


I believe that if it were to come up where our country was invaded that I would not burn my uniform, and would take up whatever means necessary to fight back.  
I think anyone who is quoting regulations about disciplinary actions for taking arms while in uniform is too stuck in the reglations and doctrine of CAP law to see what is infront of them.  THis is not a factual discussion, more akin to the moral leadership or hypothetical discussions we make our cadets engage in.  

Just answer the question and maybe add alittle more.  Personally i plan on bringing this question to the table at a squadron meeting and seeing how it sticks to the wall.

My prediction is that most cadets will vote to keep the uniform and fight back.  I dont believe that our cadet would sit back and not take action, even though there would be some that would whine and complain that they didnt get to be platoon leaders or hold the big gun.. most would infact join the cause.

Seniors on the other hand, have forgotten (not all of us) how to work as a team and just answer the question at hand and play "make  believe".   We are stuck in  a world of facts and figures and do not allow our minds to wander as much.. but there will still be some moaning and groaning about not having the cool job, or how got the be commander in chief of all cap ground forces...

[Viper QA]

Bear with me...it starts with an unlikely scenario... (The POLITICS is not the point especially since it is totally fictional, but rather your actions in the aftermath)

In March of 2012, a revolution in Mexico brings forth a sort of National Socialist movement that takes power  and immediately negates NAFTA assuming an Anti-American posture.  The US attempts to intervene, but internal pressures after the recent withdrawl of US troops from the Middle East makes it an unpopular move.

In September of that year, Venezuela and Mexico begin a major Anti-American push and culminate it with a Conquest of Central America.   These nations are well armed and are totally militarized.  US military action is threatened, however, anti-war forces are in power and a prolonged war in Central America is dismissed as having no bearing on US interests.  Panama, Nicaragua, Honduras and Guatemala FALL!

In Mid-2014, with help from Separatists in the Southwest, disrupt the Southwest to the point that a successful invasion of South Texas, New Mexico, parts of Arizona and Southern California are occupied.  It turns out to be folly on the part of the Mexican-Venezuelan Alliance, however, the US has difficulty retaking the area due to obvious issues related to the Civilian population.

The Southwestern US is OCCUPIED...albeit, it is likely to be temporary (a year or so) 

There is a CAP uniform hanging in your closet.  Do you burn it?  What might they do to you? Would you fight?  resistance? Collaboration?

What would you do?

What exactly is the point of this thread?

How exactly do discussions of ideas as STUPID as this one have any benefit to CAP?

No offense to anyone, but I feel I have lost many brain cells by reading all of this nonsense. This thread has nothing to do with PATRIOTISM at all. If you really wanted to ask members about their patriotism I think you could have come up with a better way to ask about it.

This "scenario" you described is totally ridicules & about as likely to happen as the U.S. being invaded by aliens from outerspace. Mexico & Venezuela invading the United States! That "war" would not even last long enough for someone to write a newspaper article about  it.

This is a forum for CAP members to share their thoughts & experiences. I understand that sometimes members want to discuss other things, but this is really useless nonsense. I don't post much, but I had to say something about this. This might be just my 2 cents, but I hope other members feel similar.

Dude you got way too much free time on your hands....go join some conspiracy theory forum or something. No one in CAP benefits from "discussions" such as this. I'm actually sorry I responded!

Hopefully Mike or one of the other mods will lock this stupid thread!

[MIKE]

Hopefully Mike or one of the other mods will lock this stupid thread!

It was supposed to die off on it's own at about the 64th reply.  Let it die.

[Major Carrales]

Bear with me...it starts with an unlikely scenario... (The POLITICS is not the point especially since it is totally fictional, but rather your actions in the aftermath)

In March of 2012, a revolution in Mexico brings forth a sort of National Socialist movement that takes power  and immediately negates NAFTA assuming an Anti-American posture.  The US attempts to intervene, but internal pressures after the recent withdrawl of US troops from the Middle East makes it an unpopular move.

In September of that year, Venezuela and Mexico begin a major Anti-American push and culminate it with a Conquest of Central America.   These nations are well armed and are totally militarized.  US military action is threatened, however, anti-war forces are in power and a prolonged war in Central America is dismissed as having no bearing on US interests.  Panama, Nicaragua, Honduras and Guatemala FALL!

In Mid-2014, with help from Separatists in the Southwest, disrupt the Southwest to the point that a successful invasion of South Texas, New Mexico, parts of Arizona and Southern California are occupied.  It turns out to be folly on the part of the Mexican-Venezuelan Alliance, however, the US has difficulty retaking the area due to obvious issues related to the Civilian population.

The Southwestern US is OCCUPIED...albeit, it is likely to be temporary (a year or so) 

There is a CAP uniform hanging in your closet.  Do you burn it?  What might they do to you? Would you fight?  resistance? Collaboration?

What would you do?

What exactly is the point of this thread?

How exactly do discussions of ideas as STUPID as this one have any benefit to CAP?

No offense to anyone, but I feel I have lost many brain cells by reading all of this nonsense. This thread has nothing to do with PATRIOTISM at all. If you really wanted to ask members about their patriotism I think you could have come up with a better way to ask about it.

This "scenario" you described is totally ridicules & about as likely to happen as the U.S. being invaded by aliens from outerspace. Mexico & Venezuela invading the United States! That "war" would not even last long enough for someone to write a newspaper article about  it.

This is a forum for CAP members to share their thoughts & experiences. I understand that sometimes members want to discuss other things, but this is really useless nonsense. I don't post much, but I had to say something about this. This might be just my 2 cents, but I hope other members feel similar.

Dude you got way too much free time on your hands....go join some conspiracy theory forum or something. No one in CAP benefits from "discussions" such as this. I'm actually sorry I responded!

Hopefully Mike or one of the other mods will lock this stupid thread!

Hey DUDE, this is a thinking exercise.  No one here thinks that Mexico is invading...it is supposed to exercise your brain on some "higher levels."

For example, an intellegent person would have said 'You know, this senario is not possible."  Then they might exerise their higher order thinking skills and say... "The US is not a place that can be invaded...it is too large and surrounded by two oceans."  Then  they might remember that the point of this tread is not "Invasion America," but a question o fwhat one would do.

Maybe, if one thought it out, they might even equate it to other examples where free peoples were occupied by hostle despotic forces.

Good day!

[Viper QA]

Bear with me...it starts with an unlikely scenario... (The POLITICS is not the point especially since it is totally fictional, but rather your actions in the aftermath)

In March of 2012, a revolution in Mexico brings forth a sort of National Socialist movement that takes power  and immediately negates NAFTA assuming an Anti-American posture.  The US attempts to intervene, but internal pressures after the recent withdrawl of US troops from the Middle East makes it an unpopular move.

In September of that year, Venezuela and Mexico begin a major Anti-American push and culminate it with a Conquest of Central America.   These nations are well armed and are totally militarized.  US military action is threatened, however, anti-war forces are in power and a prolonged war in Central America is dismissed as having no bearing on US interests.  Panama, Nicaragua, Honduras and Guatemala FALL!

In Mid-2014, with help from Separatists in the Southwest, disrupt the Southwest to the point that a successful invasion of South Texas, New Mexico, parts of Arizona and Southern California are occupied.  It turns out to be folly on the part of the Mexican-Venezuelan Alliance, however, the US has difficulty retaking the area due to obvious issues related to the Civilian population.

The Southwestern US is OCCUPIED...albeit, it is likely to be temporary (a year or so) 

There is a CAP uniform hanging in your closet.  Do you burn it?  What might they do to you? Would you fight?  resistance? Collaboration?

What would you do?

What exactly is the point of this thread?

How exactly do discussions of ideas as STUPID as this one have any benefit to CAP?

No offense to anyone, but I feel I have lost many brain cells by reading all of this nonsense. This thread has nothing to do with PATRIOTISM at all. If you really wanted to ask members about their patriotism I think you could have come up with a better way to ask about it.

This "scenario" you described is totally ridicules & about as likely to happen as the U.S. being invaded by aliens from outerspace. Mexico & Venezuela invading the United States! That "war" would not even last long enough for someone to write a newspaper article about  it.

This is a forum for CAP members to share their thoughts & experiences. I understand that sometimes members want to discuss other things, but this is really useless nonsense. I don't post much, but I had to say something about this. This might be just my 2 cents, but I hope other members feel similar.

Dude you got way too much free time on your hands....go join some conspiracy theory forum or something. No one in CAP benefits from "discussions" such as this. I'm actually sorry I responded!

Hopefully Mike or one of the other mods will lock this stupid thread!

Hey DUDE, this is a thinking exercise.  No one here thinks that Mexico is invading...it is supposed to exercise your brain on some "higher levels."

For example, an intelligent person would have said 'You know, this scenario is not possible."  Then they might exercise their higher order thinking skills and say... "The US is not a place that can be invaded...it is too large and surrounded by two oceans."  Then  they might remember that the point of this tread is not "Invasion America," but a question of what one would do.

Maybe, if one thought it out, they might even equate it to other examples where free peoples were occupied by hostel despotic forces.
Good day!

I am an intelligent person & that is why I saw this entire thread for what is it....STUPID!

In my opinion it is actually an insult to intelligent people.

"This is a thinking exercise.  No one here thinks that Mexico is invading...it is supposed to exercise your brain on some "higher levels." What?....if something this ridicules gets your brain thinking at a higher level I feel sorry for you. Go watch cartoons or something & stop wasting other peoples time with your nonsense. This is not the first (or probably last) moronic thread you have started.

I don't know what else to say except please lock this thread. I don't want to trade barbs with this guy over something so STUPID.

Who cares what one would do if the U.S. is invaded? It is nonsense plain & simple!

Why not ask what CAP members would do in the mothership lands in Central Park? I guess that might be your next thread.