CAP Flight Simulator

Started by ♠SARKID♠, September 02, 2007, 09:58:11 PM

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♠SARKID♠

Has anybody played the CAP expansion pack for Flight Simulator X?  Im looking to figure out if its worth buying.

SoCalCAPOfficer

I have its great.   It has df units and becker units.   You can pick you scenario.
Good fun and training.
Daniel L. Hough, Maj, CAP
Commander
Hemet Ryan Sq 59  PCR-CA-458

BlueLakes1

I played with it on the display at national boards this year. The scenario was good, the DF worked well, but you have to use the DF for your search, wing nulls don't work. I liked it.
Col Matthew Creed, CAP
GLR/CC

SoCalCAPOfficer

Wing nulls dont work on my squadrons aircraft anyway because of our antenna placement.  So the sim is good for our practice.
Daniel L. Hough, Maj, CAP
Commander
Hemet Ryan Sq 59  PCR-CA-458

♠SARKID♠

Good to know, I'll pick it up then.

genejackson

SoCalCapOfficer,

Where are the antennas located on your aircraft for your Wing nulls?  If they are on the top of the wing like nearly every Cessna made, then they are correctly located for null technique.   If mounted on the upper empennage, then it is more difficult to do nulls but they can still be done.

Write me back if you would so I can better understand your antenna placement.   I'm a Form 91 checkpilot for VAWG and make all our pilots successfully do a Wing null to pass a -91 checkride.

Gene Jackson
Gene Jackson
COL (R) US Army
Danville VA

SoCalCAPOfficer

Our antenna is on the belly of the aircraft.  Although we cannot do wing nulls, we teach the technique.  In spite of the fact we cannot do nulls, we have had a good success rate in finding ELTS.
Daniel L. Hough, Maj, CAP
Commander
Hemet Ryan Sq 59  PCR-CA-458

bosshawk

Not sure what the problem is, but I have done quite a number of wing nulls with the antenna on the belly.  You just have to do about a 45 degree bank and hold it in a full 360.
Paul M. Reed
Col, USA(ret)
Former CAP Lt Col
Wilson #2777

RiverAux

I agree with bosshawk.  It is definetely not as easy, but can be done with belly-mounted antennas in the fashion he describes.

SoCalCAPOfficer

I stand corrected, our airplanes antenna is in the tail or our aircraft.  Our 2meter and df antennas are on the belly.   
Daniel L. Hough, Maj, CAP
Commander
Hemet Ryan Sq 59  PCR-CA-458

genejackson

SoCal,
Are you sure you don't have two antennas on the top of the wing, directly over the cabin?   Those are for your KX-155's #1 and #2.   The 3 antennas on the belly are for the L-Tronics DF unit but that is not how you do a Wing Null.

Wing null is done using the KX-155 radio set to 121.5 or 121.775.   Ensure you can hear the ELT signal via the KX-155 NAV/COM and then fly your 360 degree circle listening for when the signal disappears.   When the signal is gone - your ELT is 90 degrees off the nose and under the "UP" side wing.   

Antennas mounted on the rudder are the NAV side of the NAV/COM for the VOR's.

Check again on your airplane and see if you have two antennas on the top of the wing.

Gene Jackson
COL (R) US Army
Danville VA

genejackson

This form the Mission Aircrew Reference Text:  note the reference to using the "UP" wing and the specific reference to using the COM receiving antennas.

10.5.1 Procedures First, verify the receiver is tuned to the proper ELT frequency and that you can hear the warbling tone. Mark your position on the sectional chart, preferably over a small but significant feature. Then the pilot will make a 360° steeply banked turn to allow you to determine the signal's direction. As the airplane turns, the ELT tone will break, or null, at the point when the aircraft wing and skin come between the transmitter and the antenna. For a brief instant you will not hear the tone. The absence of the audible tone is referred to as the null. On low-wing aircraft with the antenna installed on the underside, the wing inside the turn, or the "down" wing of the banking airplane, points toward the ELT when the tone nulls. On high-wing aircraft, with the antenna installed on the top surface, the wing on the outside of the turn, the "up" wing, points toward the ELT when the null is heard.
Gene Jackson
COL (R) US Army
Danville VA

SoCalCAPOfficer

I appreciate the advise, but I called the aircraft manager who is an A&P and asked him.   He told me the aircraft radio antennas are in the tail, the df and the CAP Radio are on the belly.   I have been told every since we got this aircraft 4 years ago that we cannot do wing nulls with it.   In spite of this, we have made many finds with this airplane.
Daniel L. Hough, Maj, CAP
Commander
Hemet Ryan Sq 59  PCR-CA-458

genejackson

WOW, I guess there is a first for everything.   In 33 yrs of flying, I've never seen a Cessna SEL that didn't have the COM 1 and 2 on top of the Wing.   My own 1978 C172 had top mounted COM antennas,  my C-310 had them on the tail.   I'd love to see a picture of your bird to see just how they have configured the COM and NAV antennas in case I ever run across one in my CAP travels.

Gene

Gene Jackson
COL (R) US Army
Danville VA

RiverAux

The com antennas are IN in the tail? 

SDF_Specialist

where can I get the expansion pack for MS FSX?
SDF_Specialist

SoCalCAPOfficer

Here is a picture of our airplane and the antenna.

Daniel L. Hough, Maj, CAP
Commander
Hemet Ryan Sq 59  PCR-CA-458

genejackson

OK,  you are standing below the two NAV antennas and the ADF antenna (that's the long wire antenna going from the top of the wing to the leading edge of the vertical stabilizer.   No VHF COM antennas are in this picture.   Any pics of the rest of the airplane?

Gene
Gene Jackson
COL (R) US Army
Danville VA

SoCalCAPOfficer

Unfortunately thats not me, that gentlemen is a flight instructor, I wish I was.
I will get some pictures of the rest of the plane.
Daniel L. Hough, Maj, CAP
Commander
Hemet Ryan Sq 59  PCR-CA-458

genejackson

OK,  I look forward to seeing how N4810N is configured.  I did a google search on it and didn't find any pictures.  Often times, people take pictures and post them to different aviation sites, etc.   I saw it is a 1979 C182Q model.   Nearly every Cessna SEL made that year had wing mounted COM antennas.  I have about 200 hrs in N4702R which was a 1979 CR-182 we had in the VAWG for several years.   

If in fact N4810N has COM antennas mounted on the top of the wings, then I think you might just be able to bring some new skills to your people by sharing a different way to wing null a signal using the KX-155 radio and the COM antenna on the top of the airplane.

One of the things that makes the null technique so very difficult if you use the lower DF antennas is that you must make no less than a 45 degree bank to sufficiently block the antennas with the belly of the airplane from any ELT signal.  Most private pilots cannot sustain a true 45 degree bank for long and your MO/MS are not going to be very happy with all the G's and banking and cranking.   It really takes a 60 degree bank to fully null the signal if you use the lower antennas.  That is Commercial pilot stuff and should almost never be done in a mission capacity as you'll need some bags for the regurgitated lunches of your crews.   

Using the antennas on the top of the aircraft only require a 30 degree bank to completely null the signal.   30 degrees is the typical angle of bank during your pattern work to land so every pilot, private, Commercial or ATP can easily handle that bank.   And, MO/MS don't mind 30 degree banks.

I have over 250 missions under my belt and use wing null 100% of the time when flying an ELT mission.  I don't care if I have the L-Tronics or Becker unit, I also wing null the signal at least once to cross reference that the signal really is where I think it is coming from and not a bounced signal, etc.   I put my COM 2 on 121.5 and open the squelch (and have the audio on the Becker or L-tronics turned down).  Then I fly a single 360 degree turn and confirm the direction of the ELT signal.   Works 100% of the time.

Send pics and let's see if we can augment your bag of mission pilot tools.

Gene

Gene Jackson
COL (R) US Army
Danville VA

SoCalCAPOfficer

Thanks Gene.   I always like to find a way to do things better.  Although I am not yet a Mission Pilot myself, I am the Squadron Commander, a CAP Pilot and an Observer  .  So I will be getting you those pictures sometime tomorrow.
Daniel L. Hough, Maj, CAP
Commander
Hemet Ryan Sq 59  PCR-CA-458

SoCalCAPOfficer

Well, believe it or not, the com antennas are "inside the rudder fin" .   The leading edge is a special plastic which allows this.  I was told this was done on some of the 1979-80 models.   So with that being the case, do you still believe we could do wing nulls?
Daniel L. Hough, Maj, CAP
Commander
Hemet Ryan Sq 59  PCR-CA-458

genejackson

SoCal,

Nope, you cannot possibly null the ELT signal if the COM antennas are anywhere inside the vertical stabilizer.   There is no possible bank angle short of a 90 degree bank to block the signal with the aircraft's metal.   That's a 3G turn and out of the performance charts and utility class of that aircraft.

That is one different configuration and your A&P and other ES people are correct:  you will not be able to do a Wing Null with N4810N due to that configuration.

Gene
Gene Jackson
COL (R) US Army
Danville VA

SoCalCAPOfficer

Thanks for trying to help.  Like I said, I always appreciate learning how to do things better. 
Daniel L. Hough, Maj, CAP
Commander
Hemet Ryan Sq 59  PCR-CA-458

genejackson

If I can ever offer up some pearls for when you take your Form 91 ride, please don't hesitate to write/ask.   My official email is cd.va@vawg.cap.gov.  I'm one of 9 Form 91 checkpilots for the Wing and have lots of reference materials, charts, etc.   If I can help in any way, please let me know.

Gene

Gene Jackson
COL (R) US Army
Danville VA

♠SARKID♠

I'm stealing back my thread   :P

What do you think of the plane I painted for FSX?


I know, it looks like junk and the text is backwards, but im still proud.

Al Sayre

Lt Col Al Sayre
MS Wing Staff Dude
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
GRW #2787

SoCalCAPOfficer

Looks better than our real plane.  Our plane flies beautifully and has a new interior, but it still isnt painted CAP colors.   

You did a good job with that.
Daniel L. Hough, Maj, CAP
Commander
Hemet Ryan Sq 59  PCR-CA-458

♠SARKID♠

Thank you!

I made a caution tape Cessna too, maybe we can use it to promote safety in aviation  ;D ;D ;D


Snake Doctor

I have CAP Pilot for MS Flight Simulator 2004 and like it a lot.  I want to upgrade to the next version.

I also have IL 2 1946 which is better because you can defend yourself.
Lots of intersting aircraft to shoot down (and fly)
Paul Hertel, Lt Col, Civil Air Patrol
Wing Chief Of Staff
Assistant Wing PAO
Illinois Wing

LTC_Gadget

Quote from: Recruiter on September 03, 2007, 11:38:27 PM
where can I get the expansion pack for MS FSX?

I didn't spot where you got an answer to your question.  If you're talking about the Abacus SAR pkg, here's a link:

http://www.abacuspub.com/_cart/fsd.htm

V/R,
John Boyd, LtCol, CAP
Mitchell and Earhart unnumbered, yada, yada
The older I get, the more I learn.  The more I learn, the more I find left yet to learn.

♠SARKID♠

Just got the flight simulator for x-mas, definitely a cool program!