Unit Names Too Long Etc?

[MIKE]

For unit names for CAP units at all echelons, in your opinion what kinds of unit names are appropriate for each type of unit?  How long is too long etc?

As an example, my units fill name as it appears on our unit patch is Lt Col Frank Pocher Minute Man Squadron... The length of the name is such that it does not fit on the organizational flag, nor does it show our squadron type.  It's like we have two names, (I guess we do really, though I don't think that was the intent originally.) Most people including the majority of squadron members just refer to our unit as Minute Man Squadron... I have heard some refer to our unit as "Frank Pocher's group" or similar however; referring to the late Lt Col Frank Pocher, our unit having been named in his honor.

Pertinent CAP regulations I've found on the subject:
CAPR 20-3 CHARTERS AND OTHER ORGANIZATION ACTIONS
CAPR 900-2 CIVIL AIR PATROL SEAL, EMBLEM AND FLAG ETIQUETTE

My thoughts:

1. A unit name is too long if does not fit within the limits of the organizational flag... Exceptions being unit type designators using approved abbreviations found in CAPR 900-2. Further, units shall have only one name.

2. IMO, unit names should not include individual's names both living and deceased... Nor those types of names deemed inappropriate per CAPR 20-3.

3. IMO, unit names should be based on location of the unit... Towns and cities for squadrons or flights, counties or equivalent for groups etc, but I'm also partial to a numbering system similar to that which is used by USAF units of a similar type... Ideally numbered units would be derived from the existing charter number.  Granted, it would not seem to make units seem very unique but it does impart much more of a standard to unit identification.

I understand CAWG and possibly other wings do already use a numbering system... It seems that CAWGs numbering system is not connected with the unit name or charter number however.  How does that work exactly and what is the history behind it?

What are your thoughts and or comments?

[Major_Chuck]

My first squadron was a 'memorial' squadron and nobody could remember why it was named that way or what the guy did.  It was renamed the Shenandoah Valley Senior Squadron.

[arajca]

My first squadron was named after the town in which it met - Downers Grove Composite Squadron. It was changed to honor a local who was involved with the space program and became the Lt Col Shorty Powers Comp. Sdqn. Col Powers was the voice of mission control for the Mercury program. He was also from the area.

The problem with naming units after cities/town/counties/etc is what happens when the unit moves? The name for the unit I am trying to start is planned to be Great Divide Composite. Since it will be based in a county on the Contiental Divide, it provides for a unique landmark that covers a large area. Also if it should move, it won't need to change the name - unless it moves out of the area (100+ miles)

If you change all the unit names to numbers, who gets to be the 1st Composite Squadron?

[MIKE]

The problem with naming units after cities/town/counties/etc is what happens when the unit moves?

Thats where the number idea comes in... IIRC this is one of the reasons the USAF names units this way and also why unit insignia is not supposed to be geographically specific.

I got the impression that naming units with location based names was preferred for CAP units after reading CAPR 20-3.

If you change all the unit names to numbers, who gets to be the 1st Composite Squadron?

I guess I can see something like that happening if we were to use bits of existing charter numbers.

Don't most USAF squadrons have a more than one digit number?  I thought most had like three digits?  How does it work in the USAF?  Is it easier to be distinctive because they have may more different types of unit designations than CAP?

[SarDragon]

I despise CAWG's number system. Someone says they are from Squadron 1481, and anyone not familiar with where the units are located has no freaking idea where they are based. In a wing as large as CAWG, that makes it really difficult. I've been in the wing almost six years now, and still can't accurately place a lot of the units.

I much prefer a location based naming convention, so when someone says Podunk County Composite Sq, I know where they "live". "Memorial" squadrons are a little harder to work with, but there's usually a better association between squadron name and location than simply a number. E.g. - Joe Schmuckatelli Composite Squadron, named after a prominent figure in the unit's history who used to live close to the unit's home. "Yeah, old Joe was from Beerfroth, up north. Great guy." That makes the location more specific than just saying Sq 1481. What's the significance of 1481?

There are at least two units in CAWG with special numbers that do have significance - Simi Valley Challenger Composite Squadron 1986, the year of the Challenger exploded, and Big Bear Valley Composite Squadron 6750, their altitude.

[Eagle400]

There are at least two units in CAWG with special numbers that do have significance - Simi Valley Challenger Composite Squadron 1986, the year of the Challenger exploded, and Big Bear Valley Composite Squadron 6750, their altitude.

My Alma Mater!

Thank you for sharing Sir!

[Eclipse]

Where do units have more than one name?

I am personally not a fan of "memorial units".

[dwb]

Seriously CCSE, a five year thread bump?  I didn't realize this site has even been around that long.

[lordmonar]

My preference is either geographical names.

Las Vegas Squadron
Clark County Squadron
East Chicago Squadron
Southern Nevada Squadron

Or just number them by your charter number

69th CAP Squadron
70th CAP Squadron

If a unit moves....it changes names.

The problem with memorial squadrons is that 20 years later no one know who "Homer J. Simpson" is and why he is significant....especially if the unit moves.

I also thing we need to drop the senior, cadet, composite designations......they are more or less meaningless in or out of CAP.

If a squadron does not want to do CP...then they don't just as one who does not want to do ES don't have to (although I don't agree with this attitude).

Another possibility is to keep or modify squadron designations by allowing squadrons to choose what they want to specialize in.

Las Vegas SAR Squadron
Las Vegas Cadet Squadron
Las Vegas Aerospace Squadron
Clark County Communications Squadron

Or

69th Cadet Squadron
49th SAR Squadron
70th Communications Squadron

Numbering them brings them more in line with our military parent organisation.

Using geographical names at least ties us to our usual Area of Operations.

[IceNine]

Allowing units to choose a name based  off what they want to specialize in would encourage specialization.  Which is not a conversation we should even be having.

I know there are units that focus a majority of their attention in one place, but that doesn't make them a specialized unit, it makes them an unbalanced unit that needs to figure out how to meet all the missions equally.

I'm not a fan of memorial units either.

[SarDragon]

Well, sports fans, I think we have a new record!

Functional names are no longer authorized (Comm Sq, SAR Sq, etc.). Those went away years ago. The latest 20-3 is dated 2002, and there was no change to that section from the previous version (1998).

[a2capt]

Two more, being Sq144, the sum of two units that came together to form it, and Sq714, that I don't recall the exact meaning, but having to do with the numerical position of letters, or equiv..

It's really no different than when the name of the unit has zero to do with the geographic area. You still have to ask.

It's not called Mission Valley Stadium, either. But you know where Jack Murphy stadium is..  ;-)


As for the five year bump, he's catching up. ;-)

[Cecil DP]

Two more, being Sq144, the sum of two units that came together to form it, and Sq714, that I don't recall the exact meaning, but having to do with the numerical position of letters, or equiv..

It's really no different than when the name of the unit has zero to do with the geographic area. You still have to ask.

It's not called Mission Valley Stadium, either. But you know where Jack Murphy stadium is..  ;-)


As for the five year bump, he's catching up. ;-)

I do know where Mission Valley is, But if I hadn't been staioned in San Diego 40 years ago, wouldn't know that Jack Murphy was the former mayor of that city. It actually drives me crazy trying to figure out where a game is being played based on the commercialization of naming rights.   

[AdAstra]

Historically, CAP has used three different systems for charter numbers. Originally, it was X-X-XXX, with the first digit designating the region (based on the Army zones at the time), the second digit was the state/wing, and the last three were the individual unit. Perhaps in the 1950s, CAP switched to the five-digit system, with the first two digits designating the wing and the last three the individual unit. In 2002, CAP changed to the current system: REG-WG-XXX. I recall one explanation at the time that the new-fangled computers couldn't compute the five-digit charter numbers and relate them to their respective regions....

Different wings issue charter numbers, squadron numbers and names in different ways. California has historically issued squadron numbers different than the charter number. With the new school units, the charter numbers (REG-WG-8xx) are now used as the squadron number. But beyond that, there is no rhyme nor reason that anyone can remember. In addition to the CAWG units already mentioned, Squadron 137 also added up the number of two merging units. Traditionally, charter numbers are not re-used, unless a squadron is reactivated (such as soon-to-return Modesto Squadron 50), but squadron numbers are often re-used. More confusion for the historians.

Many years back, when we were no longer affiliated with the original school, I changed the squadron's name from the school name to a geographic name. Still makes sense. For shorthand, we usually use the squadron number. If a CAP member looks geographically-challenged (SarDragon?), I quickly add a location. Talking to the outside world, I typically use a more generic "Civil Air Patrol squadron."

Commercialization? Any objections to naming a unit "Boeing Cadet Squadron XX" if the donation was big enough?

With the history lesson and five-year bump, maybe this needs to move to the History page?

[Eclipse]

Commercialization? Any objections to naming a unit "Boeing Cadet Squadron XX" if the donation was big enough?

Yes, as we are still a pseudo government agency, and it would be no more appropriate than the 1st Boeing Bomber Wing.

We don't sell naming rights (at least not yet), which is one of the reasons I don't like the memorial units, since I know many of them got that way through endowments which are basically the same thing.

[Eagle400]

Seriously CCSE, a five year thread bump?  I didn't realize this site has even been around that long.

I know Sir.

But I accept whatever comes as a result.   

[SarDragon]

Actually, I think the bump is OK. There's a new perspective now, and new folks to give inputs. Let's see where it goes. At worst, everyone will get bored again and the thread will drop into oblivion for another four and a half years.

[mynetdude]

Actually, I think the bump is OK. There's a new perspective now, and new folks to give inputs. Let's see where it goes. At worst, everyone will get bored again and the thread will drop into oblivion for another four and a half years.

well if you're interested in new perspective, here's mine.  I dislike squadrons only named by numbers but if a squadron were named AND numbered like the RM squadrons are numbered then that would be cool.

I also like geographical naming except for when a squadron moves it should also change its name based on its geographical location.  Some have mentioned specialty squadrons, the RM seems to have this so why don't we? I understand this defeats the point of effectively training everyone to be on the same page or similar skills whatnot.

I don't have any RM experience so anything that resembles the RM is just the frosting on the cake for me!

[jimmydeanno]

I also like geographical naming except for when a squadron moves it should also change its name based on its geographical location. 

That's the reason that I'm not a fan of specific geographical names.  "Laconia Cadet Squadron" or "Minneapolis Senior Squadron" I think are too specific.  I would prefer people to have a more generic geographical name like "Lakes Region Cadet Squadron" or "Twin City Senior Squadron."  That way, if the unit happens to have to relocate to a suburb of the bigger city, etc they don't have to get new patches, business cards, letterhead, flag, charter, etc.

My first unit was "Hawk Cadet Squadron" which was nondescript and portable.

I also recommend not naming a squadron after someone who is alive, because you never know what they'll end up doing.  You name your unit after some dude(tte) that did awesome things only to find out later that he was nabbed for being the guy that drives this van:



Long names are a pain too.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

I also recommend not naming a squadron after someone who is alive, because you never know what they'll end up doing.  You name your unit after some dude(tte) that did awesome things only to find out later that he was nabbed for being the guy that drives this van:

Generally, the reputation of the dead does not change much.