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PhoenixRisen
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« on: January 11, 2018, 10:50:52 AM »

Hi all,

I'm receiving conflicting information on CDI forum requirements for promotions and wanted to see if I'm off-base here.

Per each individual phase section of the 52-16, the statement is 1 forum per achievement, with the exception of the Curry (Wingman Course) and each following milestone (either no requirement or the essay exam for Spaatz).

This is what I know to be true and correct.  One forum per achievement.  However, I'm being told by certain CDI sources that the requirements include various things including "attendance at last 2 of 3 forums conducted" and mentions of guidance within various chaplain-related AFMANs, yet, none of this has ever been "a thing" since I joined as a wee cadet in 2004.

Are there things I'm missing beyond what the 52-16 states?

Any other input?

Thanks!
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Brit_in_CAP
Seasoned Member

Posts: 394
Unit: MER-VA-002

« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2018, 11:07:56 AM »

The requirement is one CD session per achievement, as you state.

The Wingman class is required for the Curry award.

The milestones don't have a CD requirement.

Anything else is incorrect.

BTW: you can't use DDR as a sub for CD nor can you use Medal of Honor as the lesson, although it can be used as supporting material or for a non-CD talk. 

There is a change coming in that the lessons will be similar to the USAFA program but, until then, the CD forum must be presented by the CDI, or the Chaplain or, in the absence of either, the CC.  The lesson must be taken from the CAPP 265-2, dated November 2014.

I've also sent you a PM.

CDI since 2012
Senior Rated since December 2017
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PhoenixRisen
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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2018, 11:09:58 AM »

Thank you for your input!

Waiting on the PM...

Very much appreciated!
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,236

« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2018, 11:18:11 AM »

The requirement is one per achievement as indicated everywhere.
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Brit_in_CAP
Seasoned Member

Posts: 394
Unit: MER-VA-002

« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2018, 11:20:45 AM »

The requirement is one per achievement as indicated everywhere.
'morning, Sir....I see we're in agreement!  Its all very obvious and very clear, and yet.... :)
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,236

« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2018, 11:21:02 AM »

This is what I know to be true and correct.  One forum per achievement.  However, I'm being told by certain CDI sources that the requirements include various things including "attendance at last 2 of 3 forums conducted" and mentions of guidance within various chaplain-related AFMANs, yet, none of this has ever been "a thing" since I joined as a wee cadet in 2004.

From a practical perspective, at one a month (which is more then many units do), how could a cadet attend 2-3 and still promote inn 56 days?

And of course from a CAP perspective, except in cases that explicitly refer to them, AFMANs are anecdotally interesting and also do no apply.
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PhoenixRisen
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« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2018, 11:27:37 AM »

From a practical perspective, at one a month (which is more then many units do), how could a cadet attend 2-3 and still promote inn 56 days?

And of course from a CAP perspective, except in cases that explicitly refer to them, AFMANs are anecdotally interesting and also do no apply.

You and I are in 110% agreement.... Just trying to get clarification and confirmation.   :)
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Ghost
Newbie

Posts: 2

« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2018, 12:03:05 PM »


BTW: you can't use DDR as a sub for CD nor can you use Medal of Honor as the lesson, although it can be used as supporting material or for a non-CD talk. 


From what I found, 52-16 only says that the material has to come from http://capmembers.com/character. On that site, it has both the flight time, as well as medal of honor and other materials. In the medal of honor section, it specifically states that it is able to be counted as participating in a forum for cadet advancement.

Not saying that flight time shouldn't be used, but that Medal of Honor can be used as a substitute (but probably shouldn't be used every month).
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LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,843
Unit: Earth

« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2018, 12:16:05 PM »

This is what I know to be true and correct.  One forum per achievement.  However, I'm being told by certain CDI sources that the requirements include various things including "attendance at last 2 of 3 forums conducted" and mentions of guidance within various chaplain-related AFMANs, yet, none of this has ever been "a thing" since I joined as a wee cadet in 2004.

I am curious, how "old" is this CDI Officer?  As in, was this person a previous MLO?  In the past (e.g., 1998 CAPR 52-16 and the previous CAPM 50-16) had the "Must Participate [sic] in at least half of the moral leadership forums offered since the completion of last achievement".  Also the Phase II and Phase III requirement for serving as a recorder once during the phase, and the requirement for Phase IV to serve as a recorder once and a discussion leader twice during Phase IV (ah I still remember the arguments I had with the ultra-religious MLO regarding my topics because me and the topics did not serve god). 

Obviously, that does not excuse the person for not being up to date on the regulations.  Just a curiosity point. 
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Brit_in_CAP
Seasoned Member

Posts: 394
Unit: MER-VA-002

« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2018, 02:14:55 PM »


BTW: you can't use DDR as a sub for CD nor can you use Medal of Honor as the lesson, although it can be used as supporting material or for a non-CD talk. 


From what I found, 52-16 only says that the material has to come from http://capmembers.com/character. On that site, it has both the flight time, as well as medal of honor and other materials. In the medal of honor section, it specifically states that it is able to be counted as participating in a forum for cadet advancement.

Not saying that flight time shouldn't be used, but that Medal of Honor can be used as a substitute (but probably shouldn't be used every month).

You're correct but there's a subtlety in there somewhere.  I need to check my own notes.  More later!
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Brit_in_CAP
Seasoned Member

Posts: 394
Unit: MER-VA-002

« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2018, 12:10:19 PM »


You're correct but there's a subtlety in there somewhere.  I need to check my own notes.  More later!

Please check your PM for the notes.
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68w20
Forum Regular

Posts: 172

« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2018, 11:29:54 PM »


You're correct but there's a subtlety in there somewhere.  I need to check my own notes.  More later!

Please check your PM for the notes.

I'm curious on this too, as I was under the impression that MoH could be used for CD lessons in lieu of Flight Time.  Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,520

« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2018, 10:11:52 AM »

The capmembers website specifically states that the Medal of Honor lessons count toward the CD requirement:
https://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/library/medal-of-honor/

Quote
Do the Medal of Honor lessons count towards participation in forums for cadet advancement?
 Yes.



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Brit_in_CAP
Seasoned Member

Posts: 394
Unit: MER-VA-002

« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2018, 12:11:30 PM »

SkyHornet is correct, and that's where guidance varies.

My notes from the Chaplain Corps show that we shouldn't be using MoH as the material isn't formatted to easily adapt to the facilitated discussion format.  It can be used to supplement.

I underlined the sentence that says the disparity is being worked on by the Chief Chaplain.

The clarity will near-certain come later this year when the CD program is "overhauled" to look more like the AFA program.

Personally, I stay with CPPP 265-2 (Nov 2014); there are 78 lessons in there, which is easily enough for 6 years without repetition! 
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,520

« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2018, 10:25:18 AM »

Now I'll absolutely agree with you there.

I find the MoH videos put the session more into a "review of the video" and less a discussion. But I've seen the converse where you get some Chaplains/CDIs that do so much talking and never let it flow into a dialogue; it's a one-way lecture.

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Brit_in_CAP
Seasoned Member

Posts: 394
Unit: MER-VA-002

« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2018, 11:22:05 AM »

Now I'll absolutely agree with you there.

I find the MoH videos put the session more into a "review of the video" and less a discussion. But I've seen the converse where you get some Chaplains/CDIs that do so much talking and never let it flow into a dialogue; it's a one-way lecture.

Right, and we agree on both points; there was once a young(ish) CDI that did that...   ;)....and then he realized, in about session 4, that is was waaay more fun and of far more value to his cadets to do what was actually required..... ;D

...at which point his OJT supervisor decided there was some hope for him....!
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,520

« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2018, 05:39:28 PM »

Now I'll absolutely agree with you there.

I find the MoH videos put the session more into a "review of the video" and less a discussion. But I've seen the converse where you get some Chaplains/CDIs that do so much talking and never let it flow into a dialogue; it's a one-way lecture.

Right, and we agree on both points; there was once a young(ish) CDI that did that...   ;)....and then he realized, in about session 4, that is was waaay more fun and of far more value to his cadets to do what was actually required..... ;D

...at which point his OJT supervisor decided there was some hope for him....!

Where do they keep the bronze bust of you?  :P

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Brit_in_CAP
Seasoned Member

Posts: 394
Unit: MER-VA-002

« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2018, 10:03:22 AM »

Now I'll absolutely agree with you there.

I find the MoH videos put the session more into a "review of the video" and less a discussion. But I've seen the converse where you get some Chaplains/CDIs that do so much talking and never let it flow into a dialogue; it's a one-way lecture.

Right, and we agree on both points; there was once a young(ish) CDI that did that...   ;)....and then he realized, in about session 4, that is was waaay more fun and of far more value to his cadets to do what was actually required..... ;D

...at which point his OJT supervisor decided there was some hope for him....!

Where do they keep the bronze bust of you?  :P

 ;D ;D.....

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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: CDI Forum Requirement
 


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