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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Encampments & NCSAs  |  Topic: NCSA slotting
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Cadetter
Seasoned Member

Posts: 224

« on: January 09, 2018, 11:03:59 PM »

Although I was slotted for COS last year, I didn't go for financial/work reasons. This year, I am reapplying and have worked it out such that I will definitely go if slotted.

I'm also planning on applying for IACE and am filling out the supplemental, etc. today and tomorrow. I would love to attend IACE, but my parents may not consent (family issues - don't ask) if I get in, which is unlikely since a 17yo newly minted Earhart with no relevant experience outside the unit isn't exactly the ideal ambassador. I'm applying for Canada, Belgium, and New Zealand or Australia (first two because I speak/read some French and last one because my parents definitely say no to Israel, ROK, and China).

Does applying for IACE affect my possible slotting for COS, and if so, how? I feel like the answer is yes and wonder if I perhaps shouldn't apply, as COS is certain if I get in, while if I magically get slotted for IACE, my parents likely will say no and I will cause inconvenience to deserving applicants and directors.

Also, does turning down COS last year reflect badly on me for getting in this year?

And yes, I have enough saved through work that I can finance either (not both) this year, without scholarships. If I get some or all of the scholarships I apply for, I could finance both.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 11:07:12 PM by Cadetter » Logged
Wright Brothers Award, 2013
Billy Mitchell Award, 2016
Earhart Award, 2018

Planned: Eaker Award, late 2018 or early 2019; Spaatz Award, summer 2019
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,123
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2018, 12:34:04 AM »

Good to hear from you again.


First question is, in what manner did you decline the slot last year (i.e. did you, as swiftly as possible, contact NHQ through your chain up through Wing to allow them to reprogram the slot to an alternate). The manner in which you did so may influence your Wing level approval authority to approve you to go forward this year. Wing Commanders have the option to approve, or even to green light/red light, applicants based on the latitude granted them as Commanders, and based on their own criteria (varies from Wing to Wing).


Next, on COS, I don't believe that IACS and COS applications are necessarily mutually exclusive, but in the end it all comes down to the number and quality of applicants this year. The staff at Wing and NHQ/CP work hard to make sure that available slots are awarded on a balanced and fair basis. I don't think that turning COS down last year would hurt you. 


My advice would be to avoid entering a pattern as a repeat offender here: do NOT apply to IACE, without the support of your parents. Do NOT apply to both if you can't afford both (e.g. you cancelled last year partly due to finances, you say). You indicate that the folks may not consent, possibly due to their feelings about certain TDY destinations. Don't yank the system around or try to game it to your advantage for a preferred country. Were I to see you reapply after last years withdrawal then get selected for both, and then back out again to one or both due to finances or parents, you'd probably be on my permanent red list as an unreliable candidate. Sorry - that's what you'd look like - so be sure you've got a supportable plan before pulling that trigger.


The life lesson is: things happen, but don't make a habit of over committing and under executing. Your comments about not being able to pay for your choices, and questionable parent support are telling. My recommendation is to have that discussion with your parents, and settle on one (1) activity that they approve of, and shoot for the other next year. If safety/security abroad is a concern for them, perhaps you should talk with them about planning an IACE application for next year (when you're 18) and start saving for it. That would, to me, seem to be a financially supportable plan which helped to meet their apparent concerns half way.


Best wishes,
Spam

PS, let us know how it turned out, after all!


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Cadetter
Seasoned Member

Posts: 224

« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2018, 01:07:15 AM »

Thank you for the detailed response!

I did not decline the spot as quickly as possible because I would have attended had I not received my (paid) internship offer. I made the minimum deposit and withdrew in mid-April 2 days after receiving the offer. I did not contact my chain through Wing. I emailed the activity director and the general COS email, as directed in the original acceptance email. To be honest, I did not anticipate being accepted to either COS or the internship due to general life pessimism and family issues in early 2017 and handled both situations poorly.

I believe my Wing Commander will be presiding for my Earhart promotion ceremony in a few weeks (perhaps Feb). Regarding COS (and only COS), would you recommend mentioning to him, or to anyone else, my prior withdrawal reason and current commitment to COS if slotted? I have not done so because I feel that it's rather whiny, self-serving, etc. - especially since last year COS was under-attended. My parents approve of COS, and due to working last summer and forgoing COS, I can afford it this summer.

By next summer, IACE may be far more feasible, and I expect to be a more viable candidate regardless. I'll just wait on IACE. Assuming I don't marry by 21, I'll have 3 summers of eligibility and don't want to mess up anyone else's chances, or decrease my own, by applying upon first eligibility just because I can.
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Wright Brothers Award, 2013
Billy Mitchell Award, 2016
Earhart Award, 2018

Planned: Eaker Award, late 2018 or early 2019; Spaatz Award, summer 2019
Cadetter
Seasoned Member

Posts: 224

« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2018, 11:18:12 AM »

Also, I don't think I need to worry about being on the wing's red list for 2018, as my application for COS is listed as Alternate, which means I have wing approval. So, addressing last year's reason further with staff anywhere seems unnecessary. Next year, and every further year of eligibility and ability, I'll apply to IACE. :)

If I am not slotted for COS, are there any RCLS that are known to be exceptionally good?
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Wright Brothers Award, 2013
Billy Mitchell Award, 2016
Earhart Award, 2018

Planned: Eaker Award, late 2018 or early 2019; Spaatz Award, summer 2019
Paul Creed III
Seasoned Member

Posts: 223
Unit: GLR-OH-254

« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2018, 12:27:53 PM »

Also, I don't think I need to worry about being on the wing's red list for 2018, as my application for COS is listed as Alternate, which means I have wing approval.

All applications are listed as Alternate until actual slotting takes place. Showing as Alternate doesn't necessarily mean that wing approval has yet been granted.
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Lt Col Paul Creed III, CAP
National Headquarters Cyber Curriculum Specialist
Great Lakes Region Cyber Programs Officer
Ohio Wing Group 3 Commander
Cadetter
Seasoned Member

Posts: 224

« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2018, 12:46:57 PM »

Under eServices > Activities Application > Activity Status:

All approved applications are listed as "Alternate" until the initial slotting takes place in March.

A status of "Awaiting Wing Approval" means your application is complete, approved by your unit commander and is being reviewed by your wing commander.

A status of "Awaiting Unit Approval" means your application is complete and is being reviewed by your unit commander.


Is Wing approval part of the initial slotting in March, which would be something different from the Wing approval that is required for approved applications to be listed as Alternate?
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Wright Brothers Award, 2013
Billy Mitchell Award, 2016
Earhart Award, 2018

Planned: Eaker Award, late 2018 or early 2019; Spaatz Award, summer 2019
Paul Creed III
Seasoned Member

Posts: 223
Unit: GLR-OH-254

« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2018, 12:53:04 PM »

Under eServices > Activities Application > Activity Status:

All approved applications are listed as "Alternate" until the initial slotting takes place in March.

A status of "Awaiting Wing Approval" means your application is complete, approved by your unit commander and is being reviewed by your wing commander.

A status of "Awaiting Unit Approval" means your application is complete and is being reviewed by your unit commander.


Is Wing approval part of the initial slotting in March, which would be something different from the Wing approval that is required for approved applications to be listed as Alternate?

Each wing likely handles the process a bit differently. Some hold review boards to determine while others may simply mass-approve and probably many other methods as well. Once your Wing commander (or delegate) approves, the activity itself still has to actually slot an applicant into the activity - that's what will take place in March.

Overall:

Application>Unit Approval>Wing Approval>Activity Slotting.
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Lt Col Paul Creed III, CAP
National Headquarters Cyber Curriculum Specialist
Great Lakes Region Cyber Programs Officer
Ohio Wing Group 3 Commander
Offutteer
Forum Regular

Posts: 145

« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2018, 06:16:36 PM »

Back to the original question.

IACE does their slotting manually, so the rankings won't have an effect on COS or IACE.  If you are slotted for IACE, your preference for COS will be removed, because they have overlapping dates.  Same would apply for IACE, however, IACE keeps their original list and moves people up when an opening occurs.  If you are selected for one, but can't go, decline as early as possible and restate your other preference in e-Services.  That way you can get on the alternates' list again. 

For IACE the way you answer the questionnaire is important.  It's not just do you have experience, but can you explain your experience.  Can you actually answer that they are asking, rather than providing just an answer to something close to the question.  Did you completely answer the question?  It's best to review all of the questions in each section before answering.  Some people will copy/paste their answers for multiple questions; that's not answering the stated question.  They are similar, but very specific in their differences. 


Since you declined in early April last year, there shouldn't be any issue with getting slotted again.  For practical purposes, that is declining immediately.  It's the guys that wait until a couple of weeks out that the staff gets heartburn over.  There's an old sayin' "I've got good news and bad news for you.  The good news is that someone at NHQ knows you.  The bad news is that someone at NHQ KNOWS you."  Be polite in your correspondence with NHQ and activity staff, keep them up to date on possible issues and you shouldn't ever have to worry. 

Good luck!
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Cadetter
Seasoned Member

Posts: 224

« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2018, 06:47:27 PM »

Each wing likely handles the process a bit differently. Some hold review boards to determine while others may simply mass-approve and probably many other methods as well. Once your Wing commander (or delegate) approves, the activity itself still has to actually slot an applicant into the activity - that's what will take place in March.

Overall:

Application>Unit Approval>Wing Approval>Activity Slotting.

No such review boards in my wing for general NCSAs (IACE may be the exception), so I have no idea how closely the Wing CC/delegate approves applications. For 2017 activities, my app jumped from Awaiting Unit Approval to Awaiting Wing Approval to Alternate multiple times in December (I made tons of edits), so I think that in my wing, at least, it's a fairly quick and painless process.

Back to the original question.

IACE does their slotting manually, so the rankings won't have an effect on COS or IACE.  If you are slotted for IACE, your preference for COS will be removed, because they have overlapping dates.  Same would apply for IACE, however, IACE keeps their original list and moves people up when an opening occurs.  If you are selected for one, but can't go, decline as early as possible and restate your other preference in e-Services.  That way you can get on the alternates' list again. 

For IACE the way you answer the questionnaire is important.  It's not just do you have experience, but can you explain your experience.  Can you actually answer that they are asking, rather than providing just an answer to something close to the question.  Did you completely answer the question?  It's best to review all of the questions in each section before answering.  Some people will copy/paste their answers for multiple questions; that's not answering the stated question.  They are similar, but very specific in their differences. 


Since you declined in early April last year, there shouldn't be any issue with getting slotted again.  For practical purposes, that is declining immediately.  It's the guys that wait until a couple of weeks out that the staff gets heartburn over.  There's an old sayin' "I've got good news and bad news for you.  The good news is that someone at NHQ knows you.  The bad news is that someone at NHQ KNOWS you."  Be polite in your correspondence with NHQ and activity staff, keep them up to date on possible issues and you shouldn't ever have to worry. 

Good luck!

COS (ending 5 July) and IACE (starting 9 July at earliest) do not intersect this year, at least with the current dates (which I hear change). COS does the automated slotting as described on the NCSAs site, correct?

Mid-April didn't seem very early on to me, as I waited over a month from initial slotting before withdrawing. This time, if I'm fortunate enough to be slotted, I'll deposit and book the airline ASAP. (I'd book now, but everything reasonably-priced is nonrefundable.)

I will pay great care to my responses when applying to IACE next year. I'll even start them more than a week before the deadline!  ;D
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Wright Brothers Award, 2013
Billy Mitchell Award, 2016
Earhart Award, 2018

Planned: Eaker Award, late 2018 or early 2019; Spaatz Award, summer 2019
Cadetter
Seasoned Member

Posts: 224

« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2018, 02:15:49 AM »

I am slotted for COS!

I noticed that the cost is down from $500 to $200. I'm suspecting that this means no reimbursement for the plane flight? (The reimbursement used to be $375, but I can't see a noticeable reimbursement coming from $200.)
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Wright Brothers Award, 2013
Billy Mitchell Award, 2016
Earhart Award, 2018

Planned: Eaker Award, late 2018 or early 2019; Spaatz Award, summer 2019
Ed DeSocio
Recruit

Posts: 19
Unit: NHQ-HQ-996

« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2018, 05:37:24 PM »

I attended COS in 1981 at just 16 years of age and IACE (Switzerland) the following year at 17.  Looking back, I wish that I had been a year or two older when I attended each.  While both were incredible, I'm convinced that a bit more maturity would have made each experience more rewarding.  That's the advice that I gave to my cadets when I was a squadron commander.  Also, it's hard for me to imagine attending both during the same summer. 
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Ed DeSocio
Spaatz #594
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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Encampments & NCSAs  |  Topic: NCSA slotting
 


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