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Author Topic: In the event of a war: Does CAP play any role?  (Read 7866 times)
Eclipse
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« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2018, 08:38:16 PM »

Many (most?) wings have seats in the state's EOC, some out of necessity, some out of courtesy, but
you shouldn't infer from that any "special" or "different" role that any other CAP mission.

Before there's a mission number, personnel go and watch quietly, or advise if asked.  Once there's
a mission, they act as liaison.

Beyond that it depends on the incident, and certainly a uniformed CAP member should not be
reliving anyone unless they are there under the auspices of the NOC via a mission number,
which post-Sandy was likely the case.
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NIN
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« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2018, 07:22:10 AM »

Beyond that it depends on the incident, and certainly a uniformed CAP member should not be
reliving anyone unless they are there under the auspices of the NOC via a mission number,
which post-Sandy was likely the case.

Interestingly, there are a people who do things like that in the FEMA ROCs. IIRC, qualified CAP officers have served as duty officers there.
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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isuhawkeye
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« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2018, 09:32:31 AM »

In the Late 90's and early 2000's CAP still conducted some training on the concepts that would pull CAP into direct support of a military operation.  This text is taken from a 2004 Mission Aircrew training manual. 

Quote
1.4.1 The Wartime Mission
CAP OPLAN 1000 provides for CAP support to the National Command Authorities (NCA) in a declared national emergency operation — in other words, war. The CAP would supplement the military defense with a civil defense for the protection of life and property in the event of an attack on the U.S. Specifically, the CAP would:
• Provide a communications network (fixed, mobile, and airborne).
• Provide assessment of damage to highways and facilities.
• Support State and Regional Disaster Airlift (SARDA).
• Provide radiological monitoring and decontamination teams.
Command and control during these operations remains within the CAP chain of command at all times. Although operational control of a particular mission may rest with another agency, CAP directives apply to CAP resources.
A national emergency may also invoke the Security Control of Air Traffic and Air Navigation Aids (SCATANA) plan. The purpose of this plan is to provide security control of civil and military air traffic, navigational aids, and airspace use. It may involve the use of military interceptors, directed dispersal, landing, or grounding of aircraft, shutdown of navigational aids, or IFR-only operations.
Mission records are to be kept for seven years and reimbursement for fuel, oil, and maintenance is IAW CAPR 173-3, Payment for Civil Air Patrol Support./quote]

The key documents to research are the

OPLAN 1000
SCANTANA (Security Control of Air Traffic and Air Navigation Aids)

Happy Hunting. 

 
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AlphaSigOU
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« Reply #43 on: January 02, 2018, 01:18:31 PM »

SCATANA was invoked once in a real-world situation: 9/11.
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Nick
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« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2018, 01:40:39 PM »


For the FEMA-oriented folks, my understanding is that CAP comes-in through ESF-1.

Steve

Depends on the mission. In these parts, CAP has been anchored on ESF 9 for the hurricane and flooding DR missions over the past few years as an extension of the FEMA US&R folks. Next week the FCO may decide CAPabilities fit better in another ESF for a different type of mission.


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Nicholas McLarty, Lt Col, CAP
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« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2018, 10:01:53 AM »


For the FEMA-oriented folks, my understanding is that CAP comes-in through ESF-1.

Steve

Depends on the mission. In these parts, CAP has been anchored on ESF 9 for the hurricane and flooding DR missions over the past few years as an extension of the FEMA US&R folks. Next week the FCO may decide CAPabilities fit better in another ESF for a different type of mission.


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We do that differently in NYS: an organization is permanently assigned to one (or more) ESFs, and if those resources are needed for any other ESF then multiple ESFs are activated, but the organization itself does not change ESFs.


The NYS EOC was just activated (for the east coast snow storm), so I will probably be there today (ESF 6) ;)
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Steve Sconfienza, Ph.D.
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« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2018, 02:19:42 PM »

It is worth noting for those interested that there is a FEMA IS course for each of the ESFs, though they aren't CE/CEU approved. Still worth doing.
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Holding Pattern
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« Reply #47 on: January 04, 2018, 02:26:11 PM »

SCATANA was invoked once in a real-world situation: 9/11.

[DOD PROCEDURAL NOTAM] EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY. SCATANA HAS NOT BEEN IMPLEMENTED, HOWEVER, DOD AIRCREWS WILL FOLLOW SCATANA PROCEDURES FOR FILING FLIGHT PLANS IN ORDER TO GAIN DEPARTURE APPROVAL. REPEAT: SCATANA HAS NOT BEEN IMPLEMENTED. 11 SEP 18:18 UNTIL 11 OCT 23:59
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sarmed1
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« Reply #48 on: January 04, 2018, 03:25:51 PM »

SCATANA was invoked once in a real-world situation: 9/11.

[DOD PROCEDURAL NOTAM] EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY. SCATANA HAS NOT BEEN IMPLEMENTED, HOWEVER, DOD AIRCREWS WILL FOLLOW SCATANA PROCEDURES FOR FILING FLIGHT PLANS IN ORDER TO GAIN DEPARTURE APPROVAL. REPEAT: SCATANA HAS NOT BEEN IMPLEMENTED. 11 SEP 18:18 UNTIL 11 OCT 23:59

I was working for an EMS helicopter agency, and we had to submit Tail number, crew names and flight departure, destination and return destination with anticipated flight path for each mission request and wait for approval before launch.

MK
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Mark Kleibscheidel
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« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2018, 06:33:28 PM »

Only during WW3, and only if that was going very poorly. But we would be limited to children, the elderly and the infirm every able body healthy person would already be drafted if things are going that bad. We would also have to compete with the State Defense Forces/State Guard groups, and U.S. Coast Guard Aux for a ever smaller pool of recruits.

As far as missions in sure we would most likely be going back to our roots and taking over what use to be known as Civil Defense functions.
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Elihu J. Lowery, Maj., CAP
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stillamarine
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« Reply #50 on: January 11, 2018, 09:32:18 PM »

Only during WW3, and only if that was going very poorly. But we would be limited to children, the elderly and the infirm every able body healthy person would already be drafted if things are going that bad. We would also have to compete with the State Defense Forces/State Guard groups, and U.S. Coast Guard Aux for a ever smaller pool of recruits.

As far as missions in sure we would most likely be going back to our roots and taking over what use to be known as Civil Defense functions.

Not necessarily. You have quite a few people that would not be eligible for normal military service. Or like me. I'm a disabled veteran but I'm not infirm. The military will not take me back. I've asked. I'd be surprised even in a WW3 status they would take me back. We do not have a SDF. There are plenty of areas within CAP that I would be able to contribute easily.
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Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

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etodd
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« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2018, 10:36:32 PM »

Only during WW3, .....

I don't WWIII will see huge numbers drafted or otherwise. It'll be Kim shooting off nuclear weapons and then everyone will fire theirs. None of us will even think about CAP. We'll all be bunkered down with our families. How much food and water do folks have stashed away?
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abdsp51
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« Reply #52 on: January 11, 2018, 10:59:05 PM »

The likelyhood of Kim Il Jung firing anything is slim to nil...  And even if there was a WWIII there wouldn't be draft. 

Ya'll need to put the copies of Red Dawn and other nonsense away.
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #53 on: January 11, 2018, 11:05:56 PM »

How much water and food do YOU have stashed away?

Myself, not enough for even a week. Try to keep a water reserve of three gallons but cannot achieve it...
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Squadron Administrative Officer
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CAPLTC
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« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2018, 06:37:05 PM »

as Civil Defense functions.

That's now termed
Homeland Defense
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeland_defense
and
Defense Support of Civil Authorities...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Support_of_Civil_authorities


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Nick
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« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2018, 11:17:12 PM »

Not really. Civil Defense (as associated with the original Office of Civilian Defense/Federal Civil Defense Administration) = Homeland Security & Emergency Management. Separate of and not equivalent to Homeland Defense and DSCA, which are military functions.


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« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 11:22:19 PM by Nick » Logged
Nicholas McLarty, Lt Col, CAP
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« Reply #56 on: January 19, 2018, 10:21:12 PM »

Not really. Civil Defense (as associated with the original Office of Civilian Defense/Federal Civil Defense Administration) = Homeland Security & Emergency Management. Separate of and not equivalent to Homeland Defense and DSCA, which are military functions.

Depends upon your state hombre...
At the Federal level my statement is correct.
Homeland Defense
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeland_defense
and
Defense Support of Civil Authorities...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Support_of_Civil_authorities
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"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact." -- SECDEF Mattis
Nick
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« Reply #57 on: January 19, 2018, 11:16:50 PM »

[edit: sorry, I’m just repeating myself and I already know it’s not going to have any effect, so I withdraw my comment]
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 11:27:31 PM by Nick » Logged
Nicholas McLarty, Lt Col, CAP
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etodd
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« Reply #58 on: January 20, 2018, 01:06:04 AM »

[edit: sorry, I’m just repeating myself and I already know it’s not going to have any effect, so I withdraw my comment]

Yep.  This thread is a dead end. The reality is that we have to go down the call list to get someone to take a mission now.  If a war starts inside our borders, few if any would answer the phone, if CAP was to call ... which they would not. LOL
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
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« Reply #59 on: January 20, 2018, 09:43:25 AM »

Yep.  This thread is a dead end. The reality is that we have to go down the call list to get someone to take a mission now.  If a war starts inside our borders, few if any would answer the phone, if CAP was to call ... which they would not. LOL

The USAF pays for all those airplanes and would absolutely use them, one way or another, in the event of a major conflict.
That doesn't mean CAP will be dropping bombs off the coast...
Plenty of DSCA and HD tasks would need to be performed, that are non-kinetic, that do not demand Title-X authority.
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"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact." -- SECDEF Mattis
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: In the event of a war: Does CAP play any role?
 


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