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abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,502
Unit: Classified

« on: December 28, 2017, 09:33:40 PM »

So, my wonderful SO got me the book "Warnings Unheeded" by Andy Brown.  As some know he was the SP who responded and neutralized the shooter in the Jun 94 active shooter incident at the base hospital.  The book ties in that incident and the crash of Czar 52.  Both incidents happened within days of each other. 

Brown does an excellent job in detailing the background of the key figures involved with both incidents.  I recommend it not only for the historical value but also for how it ties in the background of all.   
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Live2Learn
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 568

« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2017, 12:28:31 PM »

It is a very good read.  A. Brown's personal story of Dean Mellberg, the hospital shooter is in much greater detail than the story he tells of LTC Bud Holland, the rogue B-52 Stand-Eval pilot.  Both are tales of coverup by successive commanders and their superiors.  IMHO it would make a worthwhile required read for SLS  or CLS, and even Staff College prework.  So many times did the respective 'cans' get kicked down the road.  And so little accountability.  Additional tragedies of a similar nature followed:  The 2009 Fort Hood hospital massacre by Nidal Hasan, and the 2010 C-17 air show related crash by another USAF pilot, Maj Michael Freyholtz.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 12:46:10 PM by Live2Learn » Logged
Johnny Yuma
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 604

« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2018, 10:29:42 PM »

I haven't read the book yet, but i've got it on order. I know a couple of retired cops who have been involved in responding to similar incidents who want to borrow the book afterI'm done with it.

The third tragedy in all this is the way the Air Force treated Brown post-shooting. The USAF Security Police provided nothing in the way of support for defenders involved in on-duty shootings like that found in civilian law enforcement and IMO is further evidence of critical leadership failures going on at the time. I'm sure he touches on this in the book but I know Mas Ayoob (the guy who wrote his foreward) made this a major issue in many of his writings on the subject. 
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"And Saint Attila raised the Holy Hand Grenade up on high saying, "Oh Lord, Bless us this Holy Hand Grenade, and with it smash our enemies to tiny bits. And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs, and stoats, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and lima bean-"
 
" Skip a bit, brother."
 
"And then the Lord spake, saying: "First, shalt thou take out the holy pin. Then shalt thou count to three. No more, no less. "Three" shall be the number of the counting, and the number of the counting shall be three. "Four" shalt thou not count, and neither count thou two, execpting that thou then goest on to three. Five is RIGHT OUT. Once the number three, being the third number be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade to-wards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuffit. Amen."

Armaments Chapter One, verses nine through twenty-seven:
stillamarine
400,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 833
Unit: SER-AL-134

« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2018, 10:53:03 PM »

I haven't read the book yet, but i've got it on order. I know a couple of retired cops who have been involved in responding to similar incidents who want to borrow the book afterI'm done with it.

The third tragedy in all this is the way the Air Force treated Brown post-shooting. The USAF Security Police provided nothing in the way of support for defenders involved in on-duty shootings like that found in civilian law enforcement and IMO is further evidence of critical leadership failures going on at the time. I'm sure he touches on this in the book but I know Mas Ayoob (the guy who wrote his foreward) made this a major issue in many of his writings on the subject.

I hate to tell you but unfortunately there is very little support for civilian law enforcement involved in an on-duty shooting. In fact they are often treated worse than suspects. I have seen this first hand. There is a reason that law enforcement suicides greatly outnumber officers killed by suspects. I have be doing a lot of research on these subjects as part of my doctoral studies.
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Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

USMC AD 1996-2001
USMCR    2001-2005  Admiral, Great State of Nebraska Navy  MS, MO, UDF
tim.gardiner@gmail.com
OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 313
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2018, 11:11:00 PM »

I haven't read the book yet, but i've got it on order. I know a couple of retired cops who have been involved in responding to similar incidents who want to borrow the book afterI'm done with it.

The third tragedy in all this is the way the Air Force treated Brown post-shooting. The USAF Security Police provided nothing in the way of support for defenders involved in on-duty shootings like that found in civilian law enforcement and IMO is further evidence of critical leadership failures going on at the time. I'm sure he touches on this in the book but I know Mas Ayoob (the guy who wrote his foreward) made this a major issue in many of his writings on the subject.

I hate to tell you but unfortunately there is very little support for civilian law enforcement involved in an on-duty shooting. In fact they are often treated worse than suspects. I have seen this first hand. There is a reason that law enforcement suicides greatly outnumber officers killed by suspects. I have be doing a lot of research on these subjects as part of my doctoral studies.
I look forward to you publishing. It is an important and neglected subject.
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stillamarine
400,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 833
Unit: SER-AL-134

« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2018, 11:25:43 AM »

I haven't read the book yet, but i've got it on order. I know a couple of retired cops who have been involved in responding to similar incidents who want to borrow the book afterI'm done with it.

The third tragedy in all this is the way the Air Force treated Brown post-shooting. The USAF Security Police provided nothing in the way of support for defenders involved in on-duty shootings like that found in civilian law enforcement and IMO is further evidence of critical leadership failures going on at the time. I'm sure he touches on this in the book but I know Mas Ayoob (the guy who wrote his foreward) made this a major issue in many of his writings on the subject.

I hate to tell you but unfortunately there is very little support for civilian law enforcement involved in an on-duty shooting. In fact they are often treated worse than suspects. I have seen this first hand. There is a reason that law enforcement suicides greatly outnumber officers killed by suspects. I have be doing a lot of research on these subjects as part of my doctoral studies.
I look forward to you publishing. It is an important and neglected subject.

It'll probably be awhile. I'm working on getting legislation in place in Alabama to protect peer support workers. Hopefully this legislative session.
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Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

USMC AD 1996-2001
USMCR    2001-2005  Admiral, Great State of Nebraska Navy  MS, MO, UDF
tim.gardiner@gmail.com
Live2Learn
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 568

« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2018, 12:47:51 PM »


It'll probably be awhile. I'm working on getting legislation in place in Alabama to protect peer support workers. Hopefully this legislative session.

Vocabulary time.  What are 'peer support workers'?
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,079

« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2018, 11:35:20 AM »


It'll probably be awhile. I'm working on getting legislation in place in Alabama to protect peer support workers. Hopefully this legislative session.

Vocabulary time.  What are 'peer support workers'?

A team dedicated to helping someone cope through a situation (sometimes referred to as a "peer group" or "peer counselor")

For example (I think in the case he was referring to):
If a police officer engages a suspect, it can be a very traumatic thing for the officer to experience. Some officers go into a shock after shooting someone, particularly in killing someone, or even when attacked by an individual. Some departments will have counselors that they require the officer to meet with after the incident to help him/her collect their thoughts and identify any signs of mental trauma that may need further counseling (i.e., PTSD).

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