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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: New Uniform Supplier?
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Author Topic: New Uniform Supplier?  (Read 4059 times)
Cicero
Forum Regular

Posts: 171
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2017, 04:23:49 AM »

See https://www.propper.com/ for an alternative supplier for non CAP specific uniform items.
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HandsomeWalt_USMC
Recruit

Posts: 43
Unit: NER-MA-019

« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2017, 10:51:39 AM »

Something I've touched on here before, and my primary complaint with the Vanguard-CAP relationship, is the lack of proper specifications for CAP insignia.

Vanguard, as noted before, is a primary supplier to the military and provides excellent products, because military insignia are made to exacting specifications issued by the various services. Fabric, thread colors, embroidery ratios, sizing, logo designs, etc are all given in explicit detail and the insignia made to those specs. This ensures that each time one orders a particular insignia, like my wings of gold, for example, the product recieved will be consistently the same.

CAP, to my knowledge, has not given Vanguard the same consistent specifications for it's insignia. This results in situations like the funky styling on the embroidered new silver on dark blue wings (for the record, I actually think they look cool), and the "Bozo the clown" commander's insignia. When CAP gets around to providing VG with proper specs, then we will have higher quality insignia available to us.

The other gripe I have is somewhat minor, and that is Vanguard's lack of military insignia on the flight suit nametags. I can order my Naval Aircrew wings in gold with silver stamped lettering IAW CAP requirements from another vendor, but if I wanted a nametag with both them and CAP insignia such as observer wings if I rated them, or an EMT badge, then I'd be SOL. In a perfect world, I would like to see the license agreement amended to allow certain manufacturers, such as nametags4u or wings'n'things, to produce CAP nametags. Vanguard doesn't seem to be interested in providing flight suit tags with other branch insignia.
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Semper Fidelis
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,197

« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2017, 12:12:38 PM »

+1 - CAP made this bed and is now stuck with it.  You can't hold a vendor to a non-existent
specification, and it's made worse in that it appears the contracts have stipulations regarding the need to
buy out existing inventories when changes are made, so that limits the ability to fix things assuming you want to.

When they C&D'ed the Hock, that was the end of any other company, at least one in the CONUS,
ever being a CAP supplier again.

NHQ can put out an annual RFP and its not going to get any other takers because the tooling costs
won't bring a decent ROI for the low-volume insignia they would need to create and stock.

VG is the only game in town because they have the molds, dies, and designs.   

The only way this changes is if CAP went to using standard military insignia for the majority of their badges
and jelly beans, even if they aren't used in the same way as the military, you know like what just about every
LEA and FD does so that they can buy stuff off the shelf from a large swath of commercial vendors. That
"low light" provision is a handy way to insure that never happens unless the leadership is very motivated to
make changes no one apparently wants.

At some point the idea that AAFES is an option for CAP uniforms needs to be removed from the ether, it's not.
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Cicero
Forum Regular

Posts: 171
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2017, 05:21:00 PM »

At some point the idea that AAFES is an option for CAP uniforms needs to be removed from the ether, it's not.

Our personnel use the Base Exchange regularly for uniform purchases. Is there a move to take that away?
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,197

« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2017, 05:44:15 PM »

At some point the idea that AAFES is an option for CAP uniforms needs to be removed from the ether, it's not.

Our personnel use the Base Exchange regularly for uniform purchases. Is there a move to take that away?

That's an MCSS run by AAFES, but not AAFES, per se.

The only access the general membership had to AAFES was via manual phone order (which in itself was a somewhat daunting
process that some members were unable to get through), however they stopped taking CAP orders via phone about 2 years or more ago,
when they went to a 3rd-party call center vendor who sais they were unable (or unwilling) to deal with manual orders.
That means for the vast majority of CAP members, AAFES is a non-starter.

The only MCSS in proximity to the population center of my wing is a NAVEx, where you can get boots, and a few
other service-shared items, but on the whole, nothing for CAP members.  The only AAFES MCSS in the entire state is
5-6+ hours away from the majority of the membership, and is a very small store to boot.

Everything else is 2-3+ hours away on a good day, and they are smaller stores as well.

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Cicero
Forum Regular

Posts: 171
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2017, 10:17:49 PM »

At some point the idea that AAFES is an option for CAP uniforms needs to be removed from the ether, it's not.

Our personnel use the Base Exchange regularly for uniform purchases. Is there a move to take that away?

That's an MCSS run by AAFES, but not AAFES, per se.

The only access the general membership had to AAFES was via manual phone order (which in itself was a somewhat daunting
process that some members were unable to get through), however they stopped taking CAP orders via phone about 2 years or more ago,
when they went to a 3rd-party call center vendor who sais they were unable (or unwilling) to deal with manual orders.
That means for the vast majority of CAP members, AAFES is a non-starter.

The only MCSS in proximity to the population center of my wing is a NAVEx, where you can get boots, and a few
other service-shared items, but on the whole, nothing for CAP members.  The only AAFES MCSS in the entire state is
5-6+ hours away from the majority of the membership, and is a very small store to boot.

Everything else is 2-3+ hours away on a good day, and they are smaller stores as well.

See https://www.militarytimes.com/veterans/2017/01/12/defense-officials-approve-expanded-veterans-online-shopping-benefit/

AFEES needs more customers. They would be smart to allow full, online access to Civil Air Patrol. Just my opinion.....
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,911

« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2017, 12:19:27 AM »

At some point the idea that AAFES is an option for CAP uniforms needs to be removed from the ether, it's not.

Our personnel use the Base Exchange regularly for uniform purchases. Is there a move to take that away?

That's an MCSS run by AAFES, but not AAFES, per se.

The only access the general membership had to AAFES was via manual phone order (which in itself was a somewhat daunting
process that some members were unable to get through), however they stopped taking CAP orders via phone about 2 years or more ago,
when they went to a 3rd-party call center vendor who sais they were unable (or unwilling) to deal with manual orders.
That means for the vast majority of CAP members, AAFES is a non-starter.

The only MCSS in proximity to the population center of my wing is a NAVEx, where you can get boots, and a few
other service-shared items, but on the whole, nothing for CAP members.  The only AAFES MCSS in the entire state is
5-6+ hours away from the majority of the membership, and is a very small store to boot.

Everything else is 2-3+ hours away on a good day, and they are smaller stores as well.

See https://www.militarytimes.com/veterans/2017/01/12/defense-officials-approve-expanded-veterans-online-shopping-benefit/

AFEES needs more customers. They would be smart to allow full, online access to Civil Air Patrol. Just my opinion.....

Sorry, but "serving" in CAP does not entitle you to a benefit that many have died for. You want to shop in the Exchange? Join the military.
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Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 705
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2017, 01:20:28 AM »

At some point the idea that AAFES is an option for CAP uniforms needs to be removed from the ether, it's not.

Our personnel use the Base Exchange regularly for uniform purchases. Is there a move to take that away?

That's an MCSS run by AAFES, but not AAFES, per se.

The only access the general membership had to AAFES was via manual phone order (which in itself was a somewhat daunting
process that some members were unable to get through), however they stopped taking CAP orders via phone about 2 years or more ago,
when they went to a 3rd-party call center vendor who sais they were unable (or unwilling) to deal with manual orders.
That means for the vast majority of CAP members, AAFES is a non-starter.

The only MCSS in proximity to the population center of my wing is a NAVEx, where you can get boots, and a few
other service-shared items, but on the whole, nothing for CAP members.  The only AAFES MCSS in the entire state is
5-6+ hours away from the majority of the membership, and is a very small store to boot.

Everything else is 2-3+ hours away on a good day, and they are smaller stores as well.

See https://www.militarytimes.com/veterans/2017/01/12/defense-officials-approve-expanded-veterans-online-shopping-benefit/

AFEES needs more customers. They would be smart to allow full, online access to Civil Air Patrol. Just my opinion.....

Sorry, but "serving" in CAP does not entitle you to a benefit that many have died for. You want to shop in the Exchange? Join the military.

I truly doubt that AFEES is a benefit that anybody enlisted for. And I’m pretty sure that nobody died in order to use it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Cicero
Forum Regular

Posts: 171
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2017, 01:47:49 AM »

"Expanding online shopping to all honorably discharged veterans is expected to add about $200 million annually within three years to the $8.3 billion in sales the Exchanges generated last year.

Adding those shoppers, what Shull called "the foundation of our growth," is critical to help offset the 13 percent decline in the number of active-duty Army and Air Force soldiers since 2011 when the Exchange generated $10.3 billion revenue."

https://www.stripes.com/news/us/veterans-will-soon-get-to-shop-tax-free-online-with-aafes-1.478974

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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,197

« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2017, 06:08:04 AM »

Does not include uniform items.
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stillamarine
400,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 825
Unit: SER-AL-134

« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2017, 10:28:56 AM »

Does not include uniform items.

And really isn't much cheaper then Walmart or any other online store.
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Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

USMC AD 1996-2001
USMCR    2001-2005  Admiral, Great State of Nebraska Navy  MS, MO, UDF
tim.gardiner@gmail.com
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,911

« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2017, 11:42:38 AM »

At some point the idea that AAFES is an option for CAP uniforms needs to be removed from the ether, it's not.

Our personnel use the Base Exchange regularly for uniform purchases. Is there a move to take that away?

That's an MCSS run by AAFES, but not AAFES, per se.

The only access the general membership had to AAFES was via manual phone order (which in itself was a somewhat daunting
process that some members were unable to get through), however they stopped taking CAP orders via phone about 2 years or more ago,
when they went to a 3rd-party call center vendor who sais they were unable (or unwilling) to deal with manual orders.
That means for the vast majority of CAP members, AAFES is a non-starter.

The only MCSS in proximity to the population center of my wing is a NAVEx, where you can get boots, and a few
other service-shared items, but on the whole, nothing for CAP members.  The only AAFES MCSS in the entire state is
5-6+ hours away from the majority of the membership, and is a very small store to boot.

Everything else is 2-3+ hours away on a good day, and they are smaller stores as well.

See https://www.militarytimes.com/veterans/2017/01/12/defense-officials-approve-expanded-veterans-online-shopping-benefit/

AFEES needs more customers. They would be smart to allow full, online access to Civil Air Patrol. Just my opinion.....

Sorry, but "serving" in CAP does not entitle you to a benefit that many have died for. You want to shop in the Exchange? Join the military.

I truly doubt that AFEES is a benefit that anybody enlisted for. And I’m pretty sure that nobody died in order to use it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When you enlisted or were commissioned you made a commitment that you would "support and defend the constitution" with your life if necessary.
Exchange privileges along with the commissary and medical care is just one of the benefits. But you have serve to get them.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,197

« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2017, 12:23:16 PM »

When you enlisted or were commissioned you made a commitment that you would "support and defend the constitution" with your life if necessary.
Exchange privileges along with the commissary and medical care is just one of the benefits. But you have serve to get them.

No one is talking about buying TVs.

CAP regulations and USAF AFIs still spell out AAFES as an official source for uniforms for members,
which for the majority they no longer are.
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Phillip
Member

Posts: 77

« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2017, 12:54:59 PM »

When you enlisted or were commissioned you made a commitment that you would "support and defend the constitution" with your life if necessary.
Exchange privileges along with the commissary and medical care is just one of the benefits. But you have serve to get them.

While all true, you realize do that that no one is asking for CAP members to be granted all the benefits of service?  No one is asking for VA privileges.  No one is asking for privileges at the dining facilities, MWRs, Shoppettes, etc.  Just the ability to walk in and buy a pair of ABUs, or a set of blues, or what have you.  That, in no way, shape, or form dilutes the sacrifices and contributions of any service member past, present, and future.
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Captain
Alaric
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 768

« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2017, 01:00:27 PM »

When you enlisted or were commissioned you made a commitment that you would "support and defend the constitution" with your life if necessary.
Exchange privileges along with the commissary and medical care is just one of the benefits. But you have serve to get them.

While all true, you realize do that that no one is asking for CAP members to be granted all the benefits of service?  No one is asking for VA privileges.  No one is asking for privileges at the dining facilities, MWRs, Shoppettes, etc.  Just the ability to walk in and buy a pair of ABUs, or a set of blues, or what have you.  That, in no way, shape, or form dilutes the sacrifices and contributions of any service member past, present, and future.

Of course we could solve this problem by developing a single CAP uniform and then we wouldn't need to worry about AAFES, or access to bases, etc
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NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,723
Unit: of issue

« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2017, 06:18:34 PM »

While all true, you realize do that that no one is asking for CAP members to be granted all the benefits of service?  No one is asking for VA privileges.  No one is asking for privileges at the dining facilities, MWRs, Shoppettes, etc.  Just the ability to walk in and buy a pair of ABUs, or a set of blues, or what have you.  That, in no way, shape, or form dilutes the sacrifices and contributions of any service member past, present, and future.

We presently do have this ability (CAPR 147-1, etc), however, the ability for most members to gain access to the Exchange/MCSS is often limited by the lack of a nearby base (lots of BRAC action) or the individual base's policy concerning access (which per AF policy is up to the base commander).  Not much we can really do, easily, about either.

But Civil Air Patrol is no more denied access to uniforms because of this than, say, a cadet is denied access to a glider flight because his or her wing doesn't have one.

The process to obtain uniforms is just now .. different.

My local base (an ANG base) doesn't let you on unless you're on the EAL. They have a corner of the Exchange as their MCSS, which is to say, they basically don't have one. (its literally 2-3 shelves of stuff..)

The nearest AF base, also an hour away and in another state altogether, won't let you on base without being on an EAL, either. Bummer that.

But then, I'm in another region and my driver's license and CAP ID gets me on what you would think would be one of the most secure bases in the country. Odd.

We could go back to Congress and ask them to un-BRAC some places... NOT.
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,197

« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2017, 06:51:43 PM »

We could go back to Congress and ask them to un-BRAC some places... NOT.

Or CAP could go to AAFES and ask them to get their 3rd party call center vendor to
allow Rosie to process phone orders again.

#TotalForce
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Cicero
Forum Regular

Posts: 171
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2017, 07:44:58 PM »

DoD is considering a plan to allow civilian employees to shop in exchanges

https://www.militarytimes.com/pay-benefits/military-benefits/2017/04/19/dod-is-considering-a-plan-to-allow-civilian-employees-to-shop-in-exchanges/

The initiative has the potential to significantly increase sales and profits, which would result in an upgrade of products and services, as well as additional financial support for quality of life programs, said Judd Anstey, a spokesman for the Army and Air Force Exchange Service. He confirmed that the proposal is under review by DoD.

Military exchange operations are funded by markups of merchandise. The profits go partly to help fund the services' morale, welfare and recreation programs, and partly to build and renovate exchange stores.

...

DoD and military resale officials have been searching for ways to make the exchanges more efficient and increase sales in order to put more profits toward MWR programs. Earlier this year, DoD officials approved expanding the online exchange shopping benefit to all honorably discharged veterans. That benefit, which will apply only to online stores, not exchanges on military bases, is set to start Nov. 11. 



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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,197

« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2017, 07:53:31 PM »

DoD is considering a plan to allow civilian employees to shop in exchanges

This doesn't necessarily help as they probably won't be allowed to buy uniform items.

Also, other then the lack of tax, rarely is an Exchange the best deal over Amazon or a big-box
as they are required to price goods in the same range as local retail to avoid being seen as unfair competition.
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If it doesn't make you money or doesn't make you happy, stop doing it.
abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,368
Unit: Classified

« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2017, 11:03:00 PM »

DoD is considering a plan to allow civilian employees to shop in exchanges

https://www.militarytimes.com/pay-benefits/military-benefits/2017/04/19/dod-is-considering-a-plan-to-allow-civilian-employees-to-shop-in-exchanges/

The initiative has the potential to significantly increase sales and profits, which would result in an upgrade of products and services, as well as additional financial support for quality of life programs, said Judd Anstey, a spokesman for the Army and Air Force Exchange Service. He confirmed that the proposal is under review by DoD.

Military exchange operations are funded by markups of merchandise. The profits go partly to help fund the services' morale, welfare and recreation programs, and partly to build and renovate exchange stores.

...

DoD and military resale officials have been searching for ways to make the exchanges more efficient and increase sales in order to put more profits toward MWR programs. Earlier this year, DoD officials approved expanding the online exchange shopping benefit to all honorably discharged veterans. That benefit, which will apply only to online stores, not exchanges on military bases, is set to start Nov. 11.

Even if that is the case CAP isn't included.  And the military times is hardly a credible news source.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: New Uniform Supplier?
 


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