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CAPSOC_0pur8ur
Member

Posts: 52

« on: December 11, 2017, 11:38:29 PM »

Alright, here's a question: if everyone hates vanguard so much (and rightfully so), why don't other companies make CAP stuff? Is it something national has to authorize? What's stopping another company from selling high quality CAP accessories/apparel? It just doesn't make sense to me that a company like vanguard is the only option for CAP accessories.
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"To be somebody or to do something. In life there is often a roll call. Thatís when you will have to make a decision. To be or to do? Which way will you go?Ē -Col John Boyd
SarDragon
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« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2017, 11:42:51 PM »

Vanguard has an exclusive licensing agreement to produce CAP specific merchandise. In return, they return a portion of the profit to CAP. It's an intellectual property issue, which CAP, Inc. diligently protects.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
CAPSOC_0pur8ur
Member

Posts: 52

« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2017, 11:46:30 PM »

So basically, only vanguard can make CAP stuff, and national wants to keep it that way. Correct?
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"To be somebody or to do something. In life there is often a roll call. Thatís when you will have to make a decision. To be or to do? Which way will you go?Ē -Col John Boyd
SarDragon
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2017, 11:52:33 PM »

Yup. There's a legal contract involved.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
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Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
CAPSOC_0pur8ur
Member

Posts: 52

« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2017, 11:55:23 PM »

Well phooey. I kinda thought there must be a legitimate reason, since everyone obviously dislikes vanguard, but I figured I'd check and make sure. Thanks for the info
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"To be somebody or to do something. In life there is often a roll call. Thatís when you will have to make a decision. To be or to do? Which way will you go?Ē -Col John Boyd
CAPSOC_0pur8ur
Member

Posts: 52

« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2017, 12:02:33 AM »

Is the Vanguard/CAP agreement public?
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"To be somebody or to do something. In life there is often a roll call. Thatís when you will have to make a decision. To be or to do? Which way will you go?Ē -Col John Boyd
SarDragon
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Posts: 10,342
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« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2017, 12:39:38 AM »

What does it matter? There is little you or I can do to change it.

Let's drop this and move on to something more productive.
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Dave Bowles
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Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
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CAPSOC_0pur8ur
Member

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« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2017, 10:10:16 AM »

Not to be rude, but that attitude is exactly why we still have a company like vanguard as our vendor.
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"To be somebody or to do something. In life there is often a roll call. Thatís when you will have to make a decision. To be or to do? Which way will you go?Ē -Col John Boyd
stillamarine
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« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2017, 11:58:04 AM »

There used to be another supplier. Great supplier. Vanguard put them out of business with a cease and desist. No one is going to try again.
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Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

USMC AD 1996-2001
USMCR    2001-2005  Admiral, Great State of Nebraska Navy  MS, MO, UDF
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kwe1009
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Posts: 915

« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2017, 12:03:05 PM »

Not to be rude, but that attitude is exactly why we still have a company like vanguard as our vendor.

Actually SarDragon is correct.  CAP NHQ is happy with the agreement they have with VG and it is doubtful that any other company would be willing to take this on.  Things are getting better with VG as far as quality and speed of shipping but there is still work to do.  The prices are high because the volume is low and the fact that VG give 10% to CAP (not sure if that is gross or net).  That 10% is passed on to us so we are paying a higher price so CAP can get some additional funding.
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Ned
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« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2017, 01:21:00 PM »

We've talked about this several times before, but it's worth remembering that CAP formerly ran our own uniform and insignia sales (along with a bunch of doodads and trinkets) in the form of the Bookstore and CAPMart for decades.  And despite multiple reorganizations and restarts, we lost our shirts trying to do so.  That lost money came from your dues and mine.  Tens of thousands of dollars.  And members often complained about the level of service.

So the volunteer leadership decided that running a retail operation was not one of our corporate core competencies, and wisely decided to outsource the function.  There was a competitive process where several companies submitted proposals, and after a careful vetting, VG was selected.  They are granted a license by CAP to produce those items which are exclusively CAP property - things like our unique insignia and other items that are reserved to the corporation by law.  The license does NOT cover things like uniform clothing items, which members are free to purchase at AAFES, military clothing sales, or eBay.

The license agreement is a "win-win" for the membership and CAP.  We stopped losing thousands of dollars annually (dues money, remember) and gained a small, but significant revenue stream from licensing fees.  Initially that money was fenced for use at training sites like Hawk, Blue Beret, and others. 

This kind of licensing is the norm, not the exception.  No one can produce or sell official Boy Scout, NFL, NCAA, or (insert your favorite rock band)'s merchandise except licensed manufacturers/venders who pay a licensing fee for the privilege.  The groups get to control the quality of the gear, and some control over distribution.  Good for both sides.

The members gain reliable and rapid delivery of their orders, reasonable prices, and a responsive customer service staff that go out of the way to make it right should there be errors or quality issues in a member's order.

We should also remember that VG has absolutely no interest in poor customer service or substandard products, because they know that the license is for a limited term (3 years at a time, IIRC), and accordingly is up for renewal periodically.  When other companies can make a pitch to take over the license because they can show that their service would be better and the products of higher quality.  It is actually reassuring that so far, VG continues to earn each renewal of the license.

Members should absolutely complain if their order is incorrect or of poor quality.  VG's staff genuinely wants to make it better.  Ultimately, if after dealing with VG staff, the matter can't be resolved, members should send feedback on VGs performance to NHQ through the chain, so that we will have it available to discuss with the VG folks, especially around license renewal time.

Finally, VG has nothing whatsoever to do with policing other venders who might be pirating CAP's intellectual property by manufacturing CAP stuff that is protected by law.  VG has no rights to CAP IP; all they hold is a license to produce it.  It is our corporate legal staff at NHQ that is responsible to the occasional letter to offending businesses to remind them of the protected status of IP that belongs to CAP, Inc..

I buy my insignia at VG, and have always had a good experience personally.  I don't buy my uniforms there, because I can get both my AF-style and corporate uniform components elsewhere because I can get a better price.  Not everyone has choices, but I do.

Ned Lee
Col, CAP
Former Senior CAP Leader

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CAPSOC_0pur8ur
Member

Posts: 52

« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2017, 01:26:50 PM »

I guess what's surprising to me is that even with issues like the fake ABU's and other poor quality uniform items, another company hasn't been able to earn the contract yet  :-\
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"To be somebody or to do something. In life there is often a roll call. Thatís when you will have to make a decision. To be or to do? Which way will you go?Ē -Col John Boyd
Briank
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Posts: 75
Unit: GLR-OH-016

« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2017, 06:44:47 PM »

since everyone obviously dislikes vanguard,

VG has done fine by me.  No complaints here.
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abdsp51
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« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2017, 08:50:36 PM »

Only ever had minor issues with Vanguard and they always came through after a phone call.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2017, 09:01:34 PM »

I guess what's surprising to me is that even with issues like the fake ABU's and other poor quality uniform items, another company hasn't been able to earn the contract yet  :-\

Did you not read Ned's response all the way through?

To restate an important point, emphasis mine:
Quote from: Ned
[Vanguard was] granted a license by CAP to produce those items which are exclusively CAP property - things like our unique insignia and other items that are reserved to the corporation by law.  The license does NOT cover things like uniform clothing items, which members are free to purchase at AAFES, military clothing sales, or eBay.
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Dave Bowles
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Unit: PCR-OR-055

« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2017, 10:18:02 PM »

As someone who remembers the bookstore from way back when, I've been happy with Vanguard's service. I've only had one issue and it was minor.
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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2017, 10:32:30 PM »

I guess what's surprising to me is that even with issues like the fake ABU's and other poor quality uniform items, another company hasn't been able to earn the contract yet  :-\

When it gets renewed, does it go out for bid? Or just get renewed? If the latter, then nobody else will ever earn the contract.


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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
MSG Mac
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« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2017, 11:22:29 PM »

A request for bids is put out whenever the contract comes out, But remember that VG is the largest supplier of insignia for all the armed services, ROTC, and the auxiliaries. I would assume that any bid would have to include one time startup costs for the winning bidder, including purchasing VG stock for a quick turnover. VG wouldn't have these added costs. So they would have to be the winning bid in almost all cases. 
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
Alaric
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Posts: 781

« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2017, 09:59:45 AM »



The license agreement is a "win-win" for the membership and CAP.  We stopped losing thousands of dollars annually (dues money, remember) and gained a small, but significant revenue stream from licensing fees.  Initially that money was fenced for use at training sites like Hawk, Blue Beret, and others. 

This kind of licensing is the norm, not the exception.  No one can produce or sell official Boy Scout, NFL, NCAA, or (insert your favorite rock band)'s merchandise except licensed manufacturers/venders who pay a licensing fee for the privilege.  The groups get to control the quality of the gear, and some control over distribution.  Good for both sides.

The members gain reliable and rapid delivery of their orders, reasonable prices, and a responsive customer service staff that go out of the way to make it right should there be errors or quality issues in a member's order.

We should also remember that VG has absolutely no interest in poor customer service or substandard products, because they know that the license is for a limited term (3 years at a time, IIRC), and accordingly is up for renewal periodically.  When other companies can make a pitch to take over the license because they can show that their service would be better and the products of higher quality.  It is actually reassuring that so far, VG continues to earn each renewal of the license.

Members should absolutely complain if their order is incorrect or of poor quality.  VG's staff genuinely wants to make it better.  Ultimately, if after dealing with VG staff, the matter can't be resolved, members should send feedback on VGs performance to NHQ through the chain, so that we will have it available to discuss with the VG folks, especially around license renewal time.


Ned Lee
Col, CAP
Former Senior CAP Leader


I disagree with the "win-win", reasonable prices, reliable and rapid delivery, and responsive customer service

Other than that they're great, and at least they're giving us kickbacks  Which certainly justifies their outrageous prices
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Alaric
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Posts: 781

« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2017, 04:25:07 PM »

Not to be rude, but that attitude is exactly why we still have a company like vanguard as our vendor.

Actually SarDragon is correct.  CAP NHQ is happy with the agreement they have with VG and it is doubtful that any other company would be willing to take this on.  Things are getting better with VG as far as quality and speed of shipping but there is still work to do.  The prices are high because the volume is low and the fact that VG give 10% to CAP (not sure if that is gross or net).  That 10% is passed on to us so we are paying a higher price so CAP can get some additional funding.

Basically, CAP is using wealth redistribution by requiring members to buy from Vanguard so they can continue their revenue stream.  I have seen no evidence that VG is getting better (and in some cases is getting worse) which makes sense from an economics point of view, they are a monopoly and monopolies have no incentive to change because their is no competition in the marketplace to incentivize them to improve quality or lower price.
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OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 393
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2017, 04:23:49 AM »

See https://www.propper.com/ for an alternative supplier for non CAP specific uniform items.
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HandsomeWalt_USMC
Member

Posts: 53
Unit: NER-MA-019

« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2017, 10:51:39 AM »

Something I've touched on here before, and my primary complaint with the Vanguard-CAP relationship, is the lack of proper specifications for CAP insignia.

Vanguard, as noted before, is a primary supplier to the military and provides excellent products, because military insignia are made to exacting specifications issued by the various services. Fabric, thread colors, embroidery ratios, sizing, logo designs, etc are all given in explicit detail and the insignia made to those specs. This ensures that each time one orders a particular insignia, like my wings of gold, for example, the product recieved will be consistently the same.

CAP, to my knowledge, has not given Vanguard the same consistent specifications for it's insignia. This results in situations like the funky styling on the embroidered new silver on dark blue wings (for the record, I actually think they look cool), and the "Bozo the clown" commander's insignia. When CAP gets around to providing VG with proper specs, then we will have higher quality insignia available to us.

The other gripe I have is somewhat minor, and that is Vanguard's lack of military insignia on the flight suit nametags. I can order my Naval Aircrew wings in gold with silver stamped lettering IAW CAP requirements from another vendor, but if I wanted a nametag with both them and CAP insignia such as observer wings if I rated them, or an EMT badge, then I'd be SOL. In a perfect world, I would like to see the license agreement amended to allow certain manufacturers, such as nametags4u or wings'n'things, to produce CAP nametags. Vanguard doesn't seem to be interested in providing flight suit tags with other branch insignia.
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Semper Fidelis
Eclipse
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Posts: 28,614

« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2017, 12:12:38 PM »

+1 - CAP made this bed and is now stuck with it.  You can't hold a vendor to a non-existent
specification, and it's made worse in that it appears the contracts have stipulations regarding the need to
buy out existing inventories when changes are made, so that limits the ability to fix things assuming you want to.

When they C&D'ed the Hock, that was the end of any other company, at least one in the CONUS,
ever being a CAP supplier again.

NHQ can put out an annual RFP and its not going to get any other takers because the tooling costs
won't bring a decent ROI for the low-volume insignia they would need to create and stock.

VG is the only game in town because they have the molds, dies, and designs.   

The only way this changes is if CAP went to using standard military insignia for the majority of their badges
and jelly beans, even if they aren't used in the same way as the military, you know like what just about every
LEA and FD does so that they can buy stuff off the shelf from a large swath of commercial vendors. That
"low light" provision is a handy way to insure that never happens unless the leadership is very motivated to
make changes no one apparently wants.

At some point the idea that AAFES is an option for CAP uniforms needs to be removed from the ether, it's not.
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OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 393
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2017, 05:21:00 PM »

At some point the idea that AAFES is an option for CAP uniforms needs to be removed from the ether, it's not.

Our personnel use the Base Exchange regularly for uniform purchases. Is there a move to take that away?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2017, 05:44:15 PM »

At some point the idea that AAFES is an option for CAP uniforms needs to be removed from the ether, it's not.

Our personnel use the Base Exchange regularly for uniform purchases. Is there a move to take that away?

That's an MCSS run by AAFES, but not AAFES, per se.

The only access the general membership had to AAFES was via manual phone order (which in itself was a somewhat daunting
process that some members were unable to get through), however they stopped taking CAP orders via phone about 2 years or more ago,
when they went to a 3rd-party call center vendor who sais they were unable (or unwilling) to deal with manual orders.
That means for the vast majority of CAP members, AAFES is a non-starter.

The only MCSS in proximity to the population center of my wing is a NAVEx, where you can get boots, and a few
other service-shared items, but on the whole, nothing for CAP members.  The only AAFES MCSS in the entire state is
5-6+ hours away from the majority of the membership, and is a very small store to boot.

Everything else is 2-3+ hours away on a good day, and they are smaller stores as well.

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OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 393
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2017, 10:17:49 PM »

At some point the idea that AAFES is an option for CAP uniforms needs to be removed from the ether, it's not.

Our personnel use the Base Exchange regularly for uniform purchases. Is there a move to take that away?

That's an MCSS run by AAFES, but not AAFES, per se.

The only access the general membership had to AAFES was via manual phone order (which in itself was a somewhat daunting
process that some members were unable to get through), however they stopped taking CAP orders via phone about 2 years or more ago,
when they went to a 3rd-party call center vendor who sais they were unable (or unwilling) to deal with manual orders.
That means for the vast majority of CAP members, AAFES is a non-starter.

The only MCSS in proximity to the population center of my wing is a NAVEx, where you can get boots, and a few
other service-shared items, but on the whole, nothing for CAP members.  The only AAFES MCSS in the entire state is
5-6+ hours away from the majority of the membership, and is a very small store to boot.

Everything else is 2-3+ hours away on a good day, and they are smaller stores as well.

See https://www.militarytimes.com/veterans/2017/01/12/defense-officials-approve-expanded-veterans-online-shopping-benefit/

AFEES needs more customers. They would be smart to allow full, online access to Civil Air Patrol. Just my opinion.....
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,099

« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2017, 12:19:27 AM »

At some point the idea that AAFES is an option for CAP uniforms needs to be removed from the ether, it's not.

Our personnel use the Base Exchange regularly for uniform purchases. Is there a move to take that away?

That's an MCSS run by AAFES, but not AAFES, per se.

The only access the general membership had to AAFES was via manual phone order (which in itself was a somewhat daunting
process that some members were unable to get through), however they stopped taking CAP orders via phone about 2 years or more ago,
when they went to a 3rd-party call center vendor who sais they were unable (or unwilling) to deal with manual orders.
That means for the vast majority of CAP members, AAFES is a non-starter.

The only MCSS in proximity to the population center of my wing is a NAVEx, where you can get boots, and a few
other service-shared items, but on the whole, nothing for CAP members.  The only AAFES MCSS in the entire state is
5-6+ hours away from the majority of the membership, and is a very small store to boot.

Everything else is 2-3+ hours away on a good day, and they are smaller stores as well.

See https://www.militarytimes.com/veterans/2017/01/12/defense-officials-approve-expanded-veterans-online-shopping-benefit/

AFEES needs more customers. They would be smart to allow full, online access to Civil Air Patrol. Just my opinion.....

Sorry, but "serving" in CAP does not entitle you to a benefit that many have died for. You want to shop in the Exchange? Join the military.
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Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 776
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2017, 01:20:28 AM »

At some point the idea that AAFES is an option for CAP uniforms needs to be removed from the ether, it's not.

Our personnel use the Base Exchange regularly for uniform purchases. Is there a move to take that away?

That's an MCSS run by AAFES, but not AAFES, per se.

The only access the general membership had to AAFES was via manual phone order (which in itself was a somewhat daunting
process that some members were unable to get through), however they stopped taking CAP orders via phone about 2 years or more ago,
when they went to a 3rd-party call center vendor who sais they were unable (or unwilling) to deal with manual orders.
That means for the vast majority of CAP members, AAFES is a non-starter.

The only MCSS in proximity to the population center of my wing is a NAVEx, where you can get boots, and a few
other service-shared items, but on the whole, nothing for CAP members.  The only AAFES MCSS in the entire state is
5-6+ hours away from the majority of the membership, and is a very small store to boot.

Everything else is 2-3+ hours away on a good day, and they are smaller stores as well.

See https://www.militarytimes.com/veterans/2017/01/12/defense-officials-approve-expanded-veterans-online-shopping-benefit/

AFEES needs more customers. They would be smart to allow full, online access to Civil Air Patrol. Just my opinion.....

Sorry, but "serving" in CAP does not entitle you to a benefit that many have died for. You want to shop in the Exchange? Join the military.

I truly doubt that AFEES is a benefit that anybody enlisted for. And Iím pretty sure that nobody died in order to use it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 393
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2017, 01:47:49 AM »

"Expanding online shopping to all honorably discharged veterans is expected to add about $200 million annually within three years to the $8.3 billion in sales the Exchanges generated last year.

Adding those shoppers, what Shull called "the foundation of our growth," is critical to help offset the 13 percent decline in the number of active-duty Army and Air Force soldiers since 2011 when the Exchange generated $10.3 billion revenue."

https://www.stripes.com/news/us/veterans-will-soon-get-to-shop-tax-free-online-with-aafes-1.478974

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Eclipse
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« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2017, 06:08:04 AM »

Does not include uniform items.
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stillamarine
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« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2017, 10:28:56 AM »

Does not include uniform items.

And really isn't much cheaper then Walmart or any other online store.
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Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

USMC AD 1996-2001
USMCR    2001-2005  Admiral, Great State of Nebraska Navy  MS, MO, UDF
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,099

« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2017, 11:42:38 AM »

At some point the idea that AAFES is an option for CAP uniforms needs to be removed from the ether, it's not.

Our personnel use the Base Exchange regularly for uniform purchases. Is there a move to take that away?

That's an MCSS run by AAFES, but not AAFES, per se.

The only access the general membership had to AAFES was via manual phone order (which in itself was a somewhat daunting
process that some members were unable to get through), however they stopped taking CAP orders via phone about 2 years or more ago,
when they went to a 3rd-party call center vendor who sais they were unable (or unwilling) to deal with manual orders.
That means for the vast majority of CAP members, AAFES is a non-starter.

The only MCSS in proximity to the population center of my wing is a NAVEx, where you can get boots, and a few
other service-shared items, but on the whole, nothing for CAP members.  The only AAFES MCSS in the entire state is
5-6+ hours away from the majority of the membership, and is a very small store to boot.

Everything else is 2-3+ hours away on a good day, and they are smaller stores as well.

See https://www.militarytimes.com/veterans/2017/01/12/defense-officials-approve-expanded-veterans-online-shopping-benefit/

AFEES needs more customers. They would be smart to allow full, online access to Civil Air Patrol. Just my opinion.....

Sorry, but "serving" in CAP does not entitle you to a benefit that many have died for. You want to shop in the Exchange? Join the military.

I truly doubt that AFEES is a benefit that anybody enlisted for. And Iím pretty sure that nobody died in order to use it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When you enlisted or were commissioned you made a commitment that you would "support and defend the constitution" with your life if necessary.
Exchange privileges along with the commissary and medical care is just one of the benefits. But you have serve to get them.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,614

« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2017, 12:23:16 PM »

When you enlisted or were commissioned you made a commitment that you would "support and defend the constitution" with your life if necessary.
Exchange privileges along with the commissary and medical care is just one of the benefits. But you have serve to get them.

No one is talking about buying TVs.

CAP regulations and USAF AFIs still spell out AAFES as an official source for uniforms for members,
which for the majority they no longer are.
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Phillip
Member

Posts: 77

« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2017, 12:54:59 PM »

When you enlisted or were commissioned you made a commitment that you would "support and defend the constitution" with your life if necessary.
Exchange privileges along with the commissary and medical care is just one of the benefits. But you have serve to get them.

While all true, you realize do that that no one is asking for CAP members to be granted all the benefits of service?  No one is asking for VA privileges.  No one is asking for privileges at the dining facilities, MWRs, Shoppettes, etc.  Just the ability to walk in and buy a pair of ABUs, or a set of blues, or what have you.  That, in no way, shape, or form dilutes the sacrifices and contributions of any service member past, present, and future.
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Captain
Alaric
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 781

« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2017, 01:00:27 PM »

When you enlisted or were commissioned you made a commitment that you would "support and defend the constitution" with your life if necessary.
Exchange privileges along with the commissary and medical care is just one of the benefits. But you have serve to get them.

While all true, you realize do that that no one is asking for CAP members to be granted all the benefits of service?  No one is asking for VA privileges.  No one is asking for privileges at the dining facilities, MWRs, Shoppettes, etc.  Just the ability to walk in and buy a pair of ABUs, or a set of blues, or what have you.  That, in no way, shape, or form dilutes the sacrifices and contributions of any service member past, present, and future.

Of course we could solve this problem by developing a single CAP uniform and then we wouldn't need to worry about AAFES, or access to bases, etc
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NIN
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Posts: 4,870
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« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2017, 06:18:34 PM »

While all true, you realize do that that no one is asking for CAP members to be granted all the benefits of service?  No one is asking for VA privileges.  No one is asking for privileges at the dining facilities, MWRs, Shoppettes, etc.  Just the ability to walk in and buy a pair of ABUs, or a set of blues, or what have you.  That, in no way, shape, or form dilutes the sacrifices and contributions of any service member past, present, and future.

We presently do have this ability (CAPR 147-1, etc), however, the ability for most members to gain access to the Exchange/MCSS is often limited by the lack of a nearby base (lots of BRAC action) or the individual base's policy concerning access (which per AF policy is up to the base commander).  Not much we can really do, easily, about either.

But Civil Air Patrol is no more denied access to uniforms because of this than, say, a cadet is denied access to a glider flight because his or her wing doesn't have one.

The process to obtain uniforms is just now .. different.

My local base (an ANG base) doesn't let you on unless you're on the EAL. They have a corner of the Exchange as their MCSS, which is to say, they basically don't have one. (its literally 2-3 shelves of stuff..)

The nearest AF base, also an hour away and in another state altogether, won't let you on base without being on an EAL, either. Bummer that.

But then, I'm in another region and my driver's license and CAP ID gets me on what you would think would be one of the most secure bases in the country. Odd.

We could go back to Congress and ask them to un-BRAC some places... NOT.
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversationsô
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,614

« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2017, 06:51:43 PM »

We could go back to Congress and ask them to un-BRAC some places... NOT.

Or CAP could go to AAFES and ask them to get their 3rd party call center vendor to
allow Rosie to process phone orders again.

#TotalForce
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OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 393
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2017, 07:44:58 PM »

DoD is considering a plan to allow civilian employees to shop in exchanges

https://www.militarytimes.com/pay-benefits/military-benefits/2017/04/19/dod-is-considering-a-plan-to-allow-civilian-employees-to-shop-in-exchanges/

The initiative has the potential to significantly increase sales and profits, which would result in an upgrade of products and services, as well as additional financial support for quality of life programs, said Judd Anstey, a spokesman for the Army and Air Force Exchange Service. He confirmed that the proposal is under review by DoD.

Military exchange operations are funded by markups of merchandise. The profits go partly to help fund the services' morale, welfare and recreation programs, and partly to build and renovate exchange stores.

...

DoD and military resale officials have been searching for ways to make the exchanges more efficient and increase sales in order to put more profits toward MWR programs. Earlier this year, DoD officials approved expanding the online exchange shopping benefit to all honorably discharged veterans. That benefit, which will apply only to online stores, not exchanges on military bases, is set to start Nov. 11. 



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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,614

« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2017, 07:53:31 PM »

DoD is considering a plan to allow civilian employees to shop in exchanges

This doesn't necessarily help as they probably won't be allowed to buy uniform items.

Also, other then the lack of tax, rarely is an Exchange the best deal over Amazon or a big-box
as they are required to price goods in the same range as local retail to avoid being seen as unfair competition.
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abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,547
Unit: Classified

« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2017, 11:03:00 PM »

DoD is considering a plan to allow civilian employees to shop in exchanges

https://www.militarytimes.com/pay-benefits/military-benefits/2017/04/19/dod-is-considering-a-plan-to-allow-civilian-employees-to-shop-in-exchanges/

The initiative has the potential to significantly increase sales and profits, which would result in an upgrade of products and services, as well as additional financial support for quality of life programs, said Judd Anstey, a spokesman for the Army and Air Force Exchange Service. He confirmed that the proposal is under review by DoD.

Military exchange operations are funded by markups of merchandise. The profits go partly to help fund the services' morale, welfare and recreation programs, and partly to build and renovate exchange stores.

...

DoD and military resale officials have been searching for ways to make the exchanges more efficient and increase sales in order to put more profits toward MWR programs. Earlier this year, DoD officials approved expanding the online exchange shopping benefit to all honorably discharged veterans. That benefit, which will apply only to online stores, not exchanges on military bases, is set to start Nov. 11.

Even if that is the case CAP isn't included.  And the military times is hardly a credible news source.
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Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 776
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2017, 01:59:38 AM »

At some point the idea that AAFES is an option for CAP uniforms needs to be removed from the ether, it's not.

Our personnel use the Base Exchange regularly for uniform purchases. Is there a move to take that away?

That's an MCSS run by AAFES, but not AAFES, per se.

The only access the general membership had to AAFES was via manual phone order (which in itself was a somewhat daunting
process that some members were unable to get through), however they stopped taking CAP orders via phone about 2 years or more ago,
when they went to a 3rd-party call center vendor who sais they were unable (or unwilling) to deal with manual orders.
That means for the vast majority of CAP members, AAFES is a non-starter.

The only MCSS in proximity to the population center of my wing is a NAVEx, where you can get boots, and a few
other service-shared items, but on the whole, nothing for CAP members.  The only AAFES MCSS in the entire state is
5-6+ hours away from the majority of the membership, and is a very small store to boot.

Everything else is 2-3+ hours away on a good day, and they are smaller stores as well.

See https://www.militarytimes.com/veterans/2017/01/12/defense-officials-approve-expanded-veterans-online-shopping-benefit/

AFEES needs more customers. They would be smart to allow full, online access to Civil Air Patrol. Just my opinion.....

Sorry, but "serving" in CAP does not entitle you to a benefit that many have died for. You want to shop in the Exchange? Join the military.

I truly doubt that AFEES is a benefit that anybody enlisted for. And Iím pretty sure that nobody died in order to use it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When you enlisted or were commissioned you made a commitment that you would "support and defend the constitution" with your life if necessary.
Exchange privileges along with the commissary and medical care is just one of the benefits. But you have serve to get them.

True. But thatís not what you said. You said that people DIED to get Exchange benefits. I doubt that anybody who died is buying anything at any Exchange.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,870
Unit: of issue

« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2017, 09:52:28 AM »

True. But thatís not what you said. You said that people DIED to get Exchange benefits. I doubt that anybody who died is buying anything at any Exchange.

Zing!
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversationsô
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,862

« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2017, 11:16:48 AM »

#TotalForce

Eclipse posted a Twitter hashtag? A clear sign that end times are near.
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stillamarine
400,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 833
Unit: SER-AL-134

« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2017, 01:16:28 PM »


True. But thatís not what you said. You said that people DIED to get Exchange benefits. I doubt that anybody who died is buying anything at any Exchange.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No but I heard they vote.  >:D >:D >:D
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Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

USMC AD 1996-2001
USMCR    2001-2005  Admiral, Great State of Nebraska Navy  MS, MO, UDF
tim.gardiner@gmail.com
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,342
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2017, 05:23:32 PM »

Click.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
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