"Little L" vs the "Tracker"

Started by whatevah, May 19, 2005, 02:14:29 AM

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whatevah

Do you have a preference?  Of course, you need to have a basis for it, something other than "I've never used XXXX before". :)

I've used both, and prefer the Tracker for its size, I haven't done any maximum range searches with it and the L-Per at the same time, so I don't know which has the best practical range.  The small size means your body blocks some of the signal, which takes out some of the guesswork involved with the L-Per "is it in front of me, or behind me?".
Jerry Horn
CAPTalk Co-Admin

abysmal

the question will be how does the "new-almost ready for delivery Little L-Per" compare to the Tracker...

Inquiring minds want to know....
2LT Christopher M. Parrett
[red]Deputy Commander of Cadets, Cadet Programs Officer[/red]
London Bridge Composite Squadron 501
SWR-AZ-112,  Lake Havasu City, Arizona

whatevah

when us little guys at the bottom of the pecking chain finally get the new beauty, I'll let you know. ;)
Jerry Horn
CAPTalk Co-Admin

abysmal

Quote from: whatevah on May 19, 2005, 03:05:51 AM
when us little guys at the bottom of the pecking chain finally get the new beauty, I'll let you know. ;)

And just what makes you so LITTLE?

So far as i can tell, we are ALL waiting in the same line.
Delays, Delays and Excuses is all I hear from L-Tronics.

With the revolution in GPS enabled beacons these may just fall away in a few years..
2LT Christopher M. Parrett
[red]Deputy Commander of Cadets, Cadet Programs Officer[/red]
London Bridge Composite Squadron 501
SWR-AZ-112,  Lake Havasu City, Arizona

Horn229

Well, that new 406 beacon is only good if the pilots register them, if that's not done, then we'll still be doing the same searches we do now.

As for preference, when I first used the tracker, I hated it 'cause I wasn't taught how to use it correctly. After being taught correctly and having a refresher a while ago, I absolutely love it. It takes all of the guess work out of it. Just do a 360* turn and you'll know where it is. The L-per in the other hand takes to much time to determine the direction, nevermind the time it takes to set the thing up.
NICHOLAS A. HORN, Senior Member, CAP

abysmal

Quote from: Horn229 on May 21, 2005, 02:03:10 PM
Well, that new 406 beacon is only good if the pilots register them, if that's not done, then we'll still be doing the same searches we do now.

In all honesty, how many pilots are going to shell out the dollars for one of them and NOT take the 2 minutes to go online and register it?
2LT Christopher M. Parrett
[red]Deputy Commander of Cadets, Cadet Programs Officer[/red]
London Bridge Composite Squadron 501
SWR-AZ-112,  Lake Havasu City, Arizona

arajca

There are a great many pilots who scared of this new fangled thing called The Internet. There are some who haven't got a clue about what a computer is.

I was in a senior squadron for two years and I saw this first hand. Threading an elephant through the eye of a needle was easier than getting some of these pilots - many with exceptional flying skills - to use the online access to National.

Schmidty06

The Tracker is garbage.  Plain and simple.  If you really know how to use the L-Per, there is NO guesswork at all.  Also, with just a little guage and several frequency selections, as well as two different modes for recieving signals, the L-Per is definately the unit with the most power.  I've proven in the field that a well trained UDF team with an L-Per can out-locate beacons faster and more accurately with L-Pers instead Trackers and some really fancy and expensive pistol-shaped DF unit that Wyoming wing has.  Especially when you're dealing with wide, open spaces and long distances, as well as box canyons, valleys, and the like. 

abysmal

Quote from: Schmidty06 on May 23, 2005, 09:35:11 AM
The Tracker is garbage.  Plain and simple.  If you really know how to use the L-Per, there is NO guesswork at all.  Also, with just a little guage and several frequency selections, as well as two different modes for recieving signals, the L-Per is definately the unit with the most power.  I've proven in the field that a well trained UDF team with an L-Per can out-locate beacons faster and more accurately with L-Pers instead Trackers and some really fancy and expensive pistol-shaped DF unit that Wyoming wing has.  Especially when you're dealing with wide, open spaces and long distances, as well as box canyons, valleys, and the like. 

Garbage might be a hard word for it.
But I am holding out for the NEW L-Per...
2LT Christopher M. Parrett
[red]Deputy Commander of Cadets, Cadet Programs Officer[/red]
London Bridge Composite Squadron 501
SWR-AZ-112,  Lake Havasu City, Arizona

whatevah

Quote from: Schmidty06 on May 23, 2005, 09:35:11 AM
The Tracker is garbage.  Plain and simple. 
how many actual missions have you used the Tracker on, and how many have you used the L-Per on?

The big antennas (121.5 and 243 masts) on the L-Per can receive the signal from 360 degrees.  so, there is a little guesswork needed to figure out where the signal is coming from, especially when dealing with bounces.  the small size of the Tracker removes that, since your body blocks signals from behind you.
Jerry Horn
CAPTalk Co-Admin

Horn229

Quote from: abysmal on May 23, 2005, 03:48:37 AM
Quote from: Horn229 on May 21, 2005, 02:03:10 PM
Well, that new 406 beacon is only good if the pilots register them, if that's not done, then we'll still be doing the same searches we do now.

In all honesty, how many pilots are going to shell out the dollars for one of them and NOT take the 2 minutes to go online and register it?

You'd be surprised. In 2003 I was on a mission and tracked a 406 ELT to a Boeing hangar, whiched happened to be in a nice new G4. The beacon was unregistered.
NICHOLAS A. HORN, Senior Member, CAP

abysmal

Quote from: Horn229 on May 24, 2005, 03:15:27 AM

You'd be surprised. In 2003 I was on a mission and tracked a 406 ELT to a Boeing hangar, whiched happened to be in a nice new G4. The beacon was unregistered.

Fair enough.
Was it a new bird, or an older one with a new ELT in it?
2LT Christopher M. Parrett
[red]Deputy Commander of Cadets, Cadet Programs Officer[/red]
London Bridge Composite Squadron 501
SWR-AZ-112,  Lake Havasu City, Arizona

whatevah

pretty sure it was an almost brand-new G4.   it was in the DuPont (yes, that DuPont) hangar, actually. :-D   they were claiming "no it can't be ours". a mechanic went into the cockpit, we heard a "click" and the signal went dead.  he came out and said "no, it's not on".   ::)
Jerry Horn
CAPTalk Co-Admin

abysmal

Quote from: whatevah on May 24, 2005, 05:47:12 PM
pretty sure it was an almost brand-new G4.   it was in the DuPont (yes, that DuPont) hangar, actually. :-D   they were claiming "no it can't be ours". a mechanic went into the cockpit, we heard a "click" and the signal went dead.  he came out and said "no, it's not on".   ::)

How cheesy can you get....
2LT Christopher M. Parrett
[red]Deputy Commander of Cadets, Cadet Programs Officer[/red]
London Bridge Composite Squadron 501
SWR-AZ-112,  Lake Havasu City, Arizona

Schmidty06

Actually with the L-Per, you switch it into Recieve mode and you get a strongest signal, the signal is then directly to the left of the unit.  No guessing at all.  You either listen for the strongest signal (from the left) or the null (signal from the right)  With the Tracker, your body doesn't block enough of the signal (nor is it precise enough) to get a true null or have the bits and pieces to give you a precise direction that the signal is coming from (like the DF mode on the L-Per).

I have 4 actual finds with the L-Per 11 sorties with it, 3 SAREXs with it, and I have 5 SAREXs with the Tracker.  I've tried both on a number of occaisions.  I even have a tracker sitting here in my house.  I go out and drop a practice beacon in the park down the block from time to time for practice and I still havn't been able to figure out how people can get even remotely close to a beacon with it. 

Ergo, I see the Tracker as garbage.  However, I deal with what I've got.

whatevah

Quote from: Schmidty06 on May 25, 2005, 08:40:55 PMI go out and drop a practice beacon in the park down the block from time to time for practice and I still havn't been able to figure out how people can get even remotely close to a beacon with it.
using manual mode or automatic?  manual is the way to go.
Jerry Horn
CAPTalk Co-Admin

abysmal

Might make for a fun FTX.

Take a couple different units and a single target and see how the two opperators do on locating the target.
Try it 2-3 times in the course of a day and see if one of the units comes out with a clear advantage over the other one.
2LT Christopher M. Parrett
[red]Deputy Commander of Cadets, Cadet Programs Officer[/red]
London Bridge Composite Squadron 501
SWR-AZ-112,  Lake Havasu City, Arizona

whatevah

the hard part will be factoring out the skill level of the user.  I can accurately track signals 25% further away than some people can, with the same L-Per unit.
Jerry Horn
CAPTalk Co-Admin

abysmal

agreed.
You would need to find two people, both who are in love with their respective units and fully competent in using them.
2LT Christopher M. Parrett
[red]Deputy Commander of Cadets, Cadet Programs Officer[/red]
London Bridge Composite Squadron 501
SWR-AZ-112,  Lake Havasu City, Arizona

Schmidty06

Quote from: whatevah on May 25, 2005, 09:23:38 PM
Quote from: Schmidty06 on May 25, 2005, 08:40:55 PMI go out and drop a practice beacon in the park down the block from time to time for practice and I still havn't been able to figure out how people can get even remotely close to a beacon with it.
using manual mode or automatic? manual is the way to go.

Manual.  I don't like machines taking me out of the picture  ;)

Quote from: abysmal on May 25, 2005, 10:04:44 PM
Might make for a fun FTX.

Take a couple different units and a single target and see how the two opperators do on locating the target.
Try it 2-3 times in the course of a day and see if one of the units comes out with a clear advantage over the other one.


Done it, myself and the L-Per come out on top repeatedly.  Every time that we've done it, actually.

Quote from: whatevah on May 25, 2005, 10:11:27 PM
the hard part will be factoring out the skill level of the user. I can accurately track signals 25% further away than some people can, with the same L-Per unit.

This is true, however it is just about impossible to find anyone this side of the Mississippi River, or otherwise within reasonable drive times to use the Tracker for a reference.  I myself know how to use the L-Per to identify signal bounce and correct for it, while Tracker and fancy Tracker look-a-like users keep going on in the same direction like they're in DF mode on an L-Per, headed in a straight line directly away from a beacon (kind of the opposite of what they're supposed to do, right?).  With recieve mode on the L-Per, though, you can tell almost immediately which direction the signal is coming from.