CAP Health Services Yahoo Board in Back Up

[RNOfficer]

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/CAP_HEALTH_SERVICES/info

[Holding Pattern]

I do wish this would be reborn on google groups.

[Eclipse]

The 90's were a great decade, I'm sure both members will have excellent discussions.

[RNOfficer]

The 90's were a great decade, I'm sure both members will have excellent discussions.

I'm certainly surprised to see such an ignorant comment from this frequent poster. A moment's research would have shown that the Yahoo HSO board has 169 members not two as this poster states.

Yahoo board technology may be old but it works.

[Eclipse]

Yahoo hasn't been a factor in the services sector for a decade.

How many of those 169 are still even in CAP and / or use their Yahoo address?

[RNOfficer]

Yahoo hasn't been a factor in the services sector for a decade.

How many of those 169 are still even in CAP and / or use their Yahoo address?

What no apology for denigrating the CAP Health Service Group by stating it has only two members?

Again, you write from ignorance. Yahoo Groups are not restricted to those with Yahoo email addresses. Notice of postings on this Yahoo group can be sent to any email that accepts Yahoo mail.

I suspect that if a member was no longer active in CAP, he/ she would leave the group to avoid the frequent postings. At least all of them were members when they joined.

[SMWOG]

I am in the HS PD track,very interested in HS but I dont have a yahoo email(not since 2005). How about a FB group?. I dont think Eclipse was insulting HS folks,just making fun of yahoo groups,its kinda like MySpace and AOL. 

[Pace]

As a member of the HSO group since near the beginning, my first thought is that CAP first needs to create a specialty track guide and a useful guide of how to integrate certain skill sets into the organization (health safety officer??, I know I'm reaching here)  before we (re)start a board. Sure we can share knowledge; however, I stopped acknowledging my professional training within CAP because there really isn't a routine place for it. Shock Pt on a mission; I'm your man until EMS can take over. Advising people on health issues, sure. Otherwise my medical background is useless in CAP. Just my two cents.

[RNOfficer]

I am in the HS PD track,very interested in HS but I dont have a yahoo email(not since 2005). How about a FB group?. I dont think Eclipse was insulting HS folks,just making fun of yahoo groups,its kinda like MySpace and AOL. 

As previously stated, a Yahoo mail address is not necessary to subscribe to the CAP Health Services Officer Yahoo group. You can use almost any email domain. A very few email domains will not accept Yahoo Group emails.

Just go to : https://beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/CAP_HEALTH_SERVICES/info and click "Join Group".

The CAP HSO Yahoo Group has existed since 2004, a very long time in CAP-time. We're proud of the contribution that the members of this board have made to the health and safety of CAP members. As previously stated, it would be awkward to transfer so many members to another medium. Facebook is certainly popular but it is primarily a visual medium which is not necessary for this group.

As for critics of the Yahoo Group: "Do You Create Anything Or Just Criticize Others?". 

http://thoughtcatalog.com/kovie-biakolo/2013/03/do-you-create-anything-or-just-criticize-others/

Have you created and maintained anything in CAP that has lasted for 12 years?

[Eclipse]

Have you created and maintained anything in CAP that has lasted for 12 years?

That.

Is.

Funny.

Right.

There.

[FW]

Have you created and maintained anything in CAP that has lasted for 12 years?

That.

Is.

Funny.

Right.

There.

I love CAPTalk...

[RNOfficer]

As a member of the HSO group since near the beginning, my first thought is that CAP first needs to create a specialty track guide and a useful guide of how to integrate certain skill sets into the organization (health safety officer??, I know I'm reaching here)  before we (re)start a board. Sure we can share knowledge; however, I stopped acknowledging my professional training within CAP because there really isn't a routine place for it. Shock Pt on a mission; I'm your man until EMS can take over. Advising people on health issues, sure. Otherwise my medical background is useless in CAP. Just my two cents.

I completely agree that the HSO status and role is poorly defined. I'm sorry to state that I believe that there has not been strong leadership on the National Level. You'll recall I suspended discussion on the HSO Board for just this reason - - the discussion was pointless with clearer guidelines from National.

I opened discussion up again just recently after I received numerous requests. It is on a trial basis.

The issue you raise is fundamental and I'll give it the attention it deserves.

IMO the role of an HSO is exactly that "heath" -- not medical care. Preventive medicine and health education are very badly needed in our society and in CAP. I am not qualified to give medical advice and I don't do it either on the board or in CAP. What I try to provide is information so that HSOs can help members make informed decisions on improving their health.

HSOs with varying qualifications can provide presentations on heath to CAP members. The issue becomes more problematic when an HSO is asked medical advice either in a group setting or individually. I'm willing to give rudimentary advice - - how long should one spend washing your hands? (sing "Happy Birthday to You" twice), what to apply to a small injury? (soap and water), which OTC pain reliever and fever reducer causes the least gastro upset (generic Tylenol, acetaminophen).

I also can direct members to useful, unbiased sites on the web if they wish to research something further and, of course, I can encourage them to see their PCP.

For example: I recently gave a Senior presentation on BPH, a condition that almost all men will experience if they live long enough. Some members did not know what the prostate was. Others had symptoms of BPH and had not thought to discuss it with their PCP. I didn't diagnosis anything but the members present knew what to ask their PCP. And BTW, I was able is dispel the common blief that there is a relationship between BPH and prostate cancer, a fear that keeps some men from seeking care.That's health education.

Advice that would require more medical information, such as "a guide to laxatives", I post on the HSO Yahoo Board. Some HSOs are qualified to provide this information.

In conclusion. IMO, Health Service Officers have a vital role in the CAP - not yet realized. Preventive medicine, heath education, exercise, and dietary advice are all areas that do not involve medical practice. Considering the dismal state of health knowledge among Americans AND the treacherous false information found throughout the web, I believe there is plenty for HSOs to do.

Finally, I think HSOs have a role in advocating heath issues. As you know, for example, I'm strongly in favor of training members to be able to treat traumatic injuries until EMS arrives. One in five trauma patients needless die because of poor pre-hospital care. Partially this is due to expecting too much of EMT-Bs (where I live EMT-P, paramedics, respond to each accident or medical emergency if EMS is indicated by first responders. But this is too expensive for many jurisdiction to provide.)

The other reason 1 in 5 trauma patients needlessly die is because on-lookers and even first responders are inadequately trained in trauma care. When there is a natural disaster or terrorist attack and EMS is overwhelmed, is when we we will see the fruits of our complacency.

As I said, HSOs have a variety of qualifications and this must always be considered, but information on the heath education, etc can be delivered by any HSO, so long as he/she is aware of their own limitations.

In good health I hope.

[Eclipse]

Everything above is true, to a greater or lesser degree, none of it is CAP's concern, and members are not looking to CAP to provide this
information. 

A fully staffed as to the brochures and regs, not to mention core-mission proficient CAP might have time to devote to
this kind of thing, CAP hasn't ever been that during my tenure, and certainly isn't likely to be any time soon.
That is the ongoing issue with the Health Services directorate in CAP.

I can't imagine where your unit finds the time to be presenting BPH seminars.  Mine doesn't have the time to complete the mission.

When MDs will give free flight physicals to pilots and annual physicals to cadets, you'll have my attention.

[FW]

Back in the day, properly trained HSOs (or medical officers, as they were then known) gave members valuable knowledge on "Universal Precautions" and "Blood Borne Pathogens".  It was popular to get this information in the early days of the "AIDS" epidemic.  We just don't seem to require that any longer for some reason.  Today, HSO's can work with safety officers in helping our members avoid those nasty personal injuries during encampments, special activities, and/or other such personal things we may worry about.

Personally, I agree with Eclipse;  Until we can get MDs to give free flight physicals to pilots, I'm really not interested in the HSO program...

[LSThiker]

Until we can get MDs to give free flight physicals to pilots, I'm really not interested in the HSO program...

Back in the day, CAP medical officers did just that

[stillamarine]

I am in the HS PD track,very interested in HS but I dont have a yahoo email(not since 2005). How about a FB group?. I dont think Eclipse was insulting HS folks,just making fun of yahoo groups,its kinda like MySpace and AOL. 

What HS PD Track??

[grunt82abn]

One in five trauma patients needless die because of poor pre-hospital care. Partially this is due to expecting too much of EMT-Bs (where I live EMT-P, paramedics, respond to each accident or medical emergency if EMS is indicated by first responders. But this is too expensive for many jurisdiction to provide.)

The other reason 1 in 5 trauma patients needlessly die is because on-lookers and even first responders are inadequately trained in trauma care. When there is a natural disaster or terrorist attack and EMS is overwhelmed, is when we we will see the fruits of our complacency.

I would like to know where your information comes from? I've never seen or even heard of statistics that bad, where 1 in 5 patient's deaths were caused by poor care provided by EMS pre-hospital. Also, Please explain how systems are expecting to much of EMT-B's and in what capacity and how we are inadequately trained? Please clarify, so I can go back to my EMS system and explain to them how CAP Health Services thinks EMS first responders are killing 1 in 5 patients pre-hospital, and another 1 in 5 on scene from being inadequately trained. I am sure National Registry would also like this information.

[RNOfficer]

One in five trauma patients needless die because of poor pre-hospital care. Partially this is due to expecting too much of EMT-Bs (where I live EMT-P, paramedics, respond to each accident or medical emergency if EMS is indicated by first responders. But this is too expensive for many jurisdiction to provide.)

The other reason 1 in 5 trauma patients needlessly die is because on-lookers and even first responders are inadequately trained in trauma care. When there is a natural disaster or terrorist attack and EMS is overwhelmed, is when we we will see the fruits of our complacency.

I would like to know where your information comes from? I've never seen or even heard of statistics that bad, where 1 in 5 patient's deaths were caused by poor care provided by EMS pre-hospital. Also, Please explain how systems are expecting to much of EMT-B's and in what capacity and how we are inadequately trained? Please clarify, so I can go back to my EMS system and explain to them how CAP Health Services thinks EMS first responders are killing 1 in 5 patients pre-hospital, and another 1 in 5 on scene from being inadequately trained. I am sure National Registry would also like this information.

Here ya go: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/60edc1db2da547cba8ea7c01779ef74f/1-5-trauma-deaths-could-be-prevented-study-says

"The report found a patchwork of results, from emergency medical systems — the often-volunteer first responders — that are considered more as transporters than health providers, to death rates that vary twofold between the best- and worst-performing trauma centers."

For those not familiar with EMS, there are three levels of EMT. EMT-B 110 hours, EMT-ii (or "A" for advanced or "I" for intermediate)) 306 hours, and EMT-P (Paramedic) 1090 hours. The query here is about EMT-B, the lowest level of training.

I have EMT-B training myself and have worked hundreds of hours as an EMT-B. I know how limited is the scope of practice and the training. Of course the scope of practice varies in different jurisdictions. In mine, EMT-B, for example, receive minimal training on removal of victims from vehicle, almost no  obstetric training, are not permitted to intubulate, and can administer no drugs except O2.and a victim's own MDI.

In general, EMTs provide what is considered basic life support and are limited to essentially non-invasive procedures. EMTs refer to it as "scoop and scoot".

EMT-B training is frankly minimal: "Under the NHTSA curriculum, students receive 110 hours of lecture and lab time covering anatomy, physiology, legal aspects of medical care, assessment, and treatment of medical, trauma, behavioral, and obstetric emergencies. In addition to class time, the NHTSA recommends clinical rotations on board ambulances and in emergency departments."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Registry_Emergency_Medical_Technician

Really, not much training can be done in 110 hours (my jurisdiction is 120 minimum) which is less than three weeks full-time> This is especially because there is no prerequisite training such as anatomy and physiology. So, EMT-B training is only 110 hours for someone who may well know nothing at all at the beginning.

This isn't a criticism of EMT-Bs. They are what they are. I'm sure you give the very best care consistent with your training and scope of practice. But many jurisdictions rely upon entirely EMT-Bs for pre-hospital care when higher standards of training would reduce trauma deaths.

Here's the full report from the NA

http://www.nationalacademies.org/hmd/Reports/2016/A-National-Trauma-Care-System-Integrating-Military-and-Civilian-Trauma-Systems.aspx

BTW, in California, EMT-B training is FREE for high school students through ROP and I encourage it for anyone considering nursing or medical training or who desire to be a firefighter or law enforcement officer. Good training for cadets also.

http://www.carocp.org/

I do not know if free training is available in other states. Ask your unit HSO.

[Eclipse]

Presuming everything you posted is true, how is this relevent to CAP in regards to Health Services?

CAP is explicitly barred from providing anything but basic first aid, and hasn't ever been capable of
being anything remotely resembling a "first responder".

Assuming the EMT system is broken, and I don't necessarily think it is except for maybe in rural areas,
CAP isn't in a position to impact that situation, nor is it tasked to.

You should be raising this awareness in forums that might be able to bring resources to the table and fix it.

[RNOfficer]

Everything above is true, to a greater or lesser degree, none of it is CAP's concern, and members are not looking to CAP to provide this
information. 

A fully staffed as to the brochures and regs, not to mention core-mission proficient CAP might have time to devote to
this kind of thing, CAP hasn't ever been that during my tenure, and certainly isn't likely to be any time soon.
That is the ongoing issue with the Health Services directorate in CAP.

I can't imagine where your unit finds the time to be presenting BPH seminars.  Mine doesn't have the time to complete the mission.

When MDs will give free flight physicals to pilots and annual physicals to cadets, you'll have my attention.

Contrary to what you state, CAP believes that "Our members are our best resource" and keeping them healthy is one way to keep that resource active. Contrary to what you state, members are eager for health information, but perhaps they are not as well-informed as you are.

Presentations such as the one on BPH I described don't take much time, perhaps a half hour. Our unit is well-run and the time is found.  We are mission-ready and have an active cadet and AE program.