More to promote?

[Cadet Snuffy]

Who else thinks there should  be more to promoting? Because just about anyone can do a PT test and take a few online tests which mean your getting cadets that are 12 and NCOs and officers that are 13, and that power can go to their heads, or they don't fully understand it. Now I'm not saying ALL young cadets are like that, but still. If promotions are based solely on pt, drill and a couple tests, you dont really show you actually understand how to lead and you get some jerks in charge of a flight and or a squadron or just a bunch of high ranking cadets that couldn't care less or that cant do jack. So who thinks there should be more to do to promote?

[TheGooseLover]

I for one believe maybe having a quarterly evaluation of all your cadets would be a good idea, to make sure they aren't letting power get to their head, as you said. Maybe ask a few questions about "why would you do" scenarios or something, but I think a good SM or Cadet would see a cadet advancing too quickly an maybe mention something but that's just me

[Cadet Snuffy]

That's the issue though. Most cadets that do go power crazy, the other cadet either do say something and get in trouble, (which I have seen happen) or the cadet that has the power issue, just gets a slap on the wrist and watched for a few weeks, then they go right back to it.

[TheGooseLover]

A way to fix such a thing (in my eyes): take all their power away for awhile. If they are C/CC and a C/Maj, give their position to another cadet. Another way to fix this before it starts is to (if your squadron is big enough), rotate positions o high authority, Exp. 1st Sgt, C/CC, C/XO, etc. the only drawback is it would require a large squadron that is semi-top heavy to achieve this! Those are my thoughts!

[TheGooseLover]

Do keep in mind however, I've been in CAP for 6 months, I'm 13 and I'm only a C/SrA, so I'm not a genius on this matter.

[abdsp51]

You do know that 52-16 says that promotion boards are now required for cadets to promote and the basis for the promotion boards decision is the CAPF-50 and that the CC ultimately has the say so on who promotes and who doesn't. 

I recommend you cadets read 52-16 fully. 

[Airplane girl]

I think the idea of there being more to promote is a good one. There is actually something that's supposed to be like that already. If you look at the Cadet Super Chart there are expectations for each grade, including stuff like "leads by example, is not a boss". However, this frequently isn't enough.

I know a cadet that does not meet any basic standards for wearing the CAP uniform. His uniform is worse than the average Cadet Airman Basic's. He's a C/MSgt. I've been trying to stop stuff like this as a cadet commander, but I don't have the authority to sign the form to retain a cadet in grade.

In an ideal world, promotion boards would stop that kind of thing. The people on the board would decide if the cadet was really ready to handle the extra responsibility of their grade. But a lot of squadrons care about looking good on paper, so they'll promote people to make themselves look good.

One way that I can see to solve this is to have someone from Group, or someone from another squadron who doesn't know anyone in the squadron, visit the squadron to watch the cadet's performance for a meeting or two before a promotion. Then they can strongly suggest that the cadet isn't promoted, if they don't think the cadet is ready. There would be a problem finding people to do that, though. Maybe only for milestones?

[abdsp51]

I think the idea of there being more to promote is a good one. There is actually something that's supposed to be like that already. If you look at the Cadet Super Chart there are expectations for each grade, including stuff like "leads by example, is not a boss". However, this frequently isn't enough.

I know a cadet that does not meet any basic standards for wearing the CAP uniform. His uniform is worse than the average Cadet Airman Basic's. He's a C/MSgt. I've been trying to stop stuff like this as a cadet commander, but I don't have the authority to sign the form to retain a cadet in grade.

In an ideal world, promotion boards would stop that kind of thing. The people on the board would decide if the cadet was really ready to handle the extra responsibility of their grade. But a lot of squadrons care about looking good on paper, so they'll promote people to make themselves look good.

One way that I can see to solve this is to have someone from Group, or someone from another squadron who doesn't know anyone in the squadron, visit the squadron to watch the cadet's performance for a meeting or two before a promotion. Then they can strongly suggest that the cadet isn't promoted, if they don't think the cadet is ready. There would be a problem finding people to do that, though. Maybe only for milestones?

Read 52-16.

[Cadet Snuffy]

Thats what I have been saying since I joined. I'm the oldest cadet at my squadron so I tend to notice more of the immaturity, but still. At my squadron, this is basiclly the attitude. "Oh! Cadet so and so has passed their PT test, Drill test and AE and leadership test! Go ahead and give them that Sgt Rank!" And then as I said, you end up with little kids running things they cant handle yet.

[TheGooseLover]

I'd like to point out however (and I'm not saying you meant this, just a reminder), some kids are much more mature then they seem, such as myself. I'm 13 which most people think 13 y/o are immature, but I am opposite. I'm the oldest child of 5, and been told by many I'm on the maturity level of a 25 year old. Just a reminder

[almostspaatz]

Its not an issue of their age, 17 year old cadets might not all be mature enough to handle the responsibilities of an C/NCO...

the only way to 'require' maturity to promote is through the command approval regulation, the issue would be solved (mostly) if more people read the regs (52-16) and followed them...

[Майор Хаткевич]

I'd like to point out however (and I'm not saying you meant this, just a reminder), some kids are much more mature then they seem, such as myself. I'm 13 which most people think 13 y/o are immature, but I am opposite. I'm the oldest child of 5, and been told by many I'm on the maturity level of a 25 year old. Just a reminder

Trust me, as a 25 year old. No you're not.


More mature than other 13 year olds? Perhaps. A 25 year old? Nope.

[Cadet Snuffy]

Its not an issue of their age, 17 year old cadets might not all be mature enough to handle the responsibilities of an C/NCO...

the only way to 'require' maturity to promote is through the command approval regulation, the issue would be solved (mostly) if more people read the regs (52-16) and followed them...

The problem (to me) falls in the age range of the 12-15 year olds. I know some cadets in that age range that do great, but, you know. When you are 4-5 years older than the person telling you what to do and they are just being, well, an annoying power crazed brat, hard to not think "why are you here in this position?" I don't mind having younger people in charge of me, it's the bratty ones that just yell to yell that tick me off.

[lordmonar]

Cadet snuffy
The numbers don't support your assessment. A good percentage of our cadets don't even ever get their Curry.  Less then 25% get Mitchell.    So why yes some hot shots burn through the ranks.  The statistics say they are outliers and do not require any action on our part.   And as pointed out it takes more than a few tests and running a mile to get promoted.   52-16 is your friend.   

[Spam]

I'd like to point out however (and I'm not saying you meant this, just a reminder), some kids are much more mature then they seem, such as myself. I'm 13 which most people think 13 y/o are immature, but I am opposite. I'm the oldest child of 5, and been told by many I'm on the maturity level of a 25 year old. Just a reminder

Trust me, as a 25 year old. No you're not.

More mature than other 13 year olds? Perhaps. A 25 year old? Nope.

Relative maturity is pretty subjective. Trust ME, as an almost 50 year old, I can say... depends, since we haven't even met this cadet. Now we need a 75 year old members perspective too... (grin).  He may be more mature than MANY people in their twenties. I mean, look at some of the poster children:

[Cadet Snuffy]

I'd like to point out however (and I'm not saying you meant this, just a reminder), some kids are much more mature then they seem, such as myself. I'm 13 which most people think 13 y/o are immature, but I am opposite. I'm the oldest child of 5, and been told by many I'm on the maturity level of a 25 year old. Just a reminder

Trust me, as a 25 year old. No you're not.

More mature than other 13 year olds? Perhaps. A 25 year old? Nope.

Relative maturity is pretty subjective. Trust ME, as an almost 50 year old, I can say... depends, since we haven't even met this cadet. Now we need a 75 year old members perspective too... (grin).  He may be more mature than MANY people in their twenties. I mean, look at some of the poster children:

You just made my day with that! 😅😂😂😂

[Cadet Snuffy]

You also realize not all squadrons actually follow through with that right? You really need to stop trying to prove people wrong lol that's all I'm gonna say.

[SARDOC]

Thats what I have been saying since I joined. I'm the oldest cadet at my squadron so I tend to notice more of the immaturity, but still. At my squadron, this is basiclly the attitude. "Oh! Cadet so and so has passed their PT test, Drill test and AE and leadership test! Go ahead and give them that Sgt Rank!" And then as I said, you end up with little kids running things they cant handle yet.

The Civil Air Patrol Cadet Program is a leadership program.  You worry about a kid punching the basic requirements to promote not being ready for the responsibility that comes with the promotion.  Yes, that is absolutely a concern, but sometimes putting them in a position that requires them to take a little more responsbility is the best learning environment.  This is where the Senior Cadets and the Senior membership provide advice, guidance and mentorship to the junior member.  That's really kind of the point.  All kids are not the same so the best we can do is lead by example.  Immaturity levels will vary but again that is something the board should consider and senior members should council them on. 

[Capt Thompson]

You also realize not all squadrons actually follow through with that right? You really need to stop trying to prove people wrong lol that's all I'm gonna say.

I find it interesting that a Cadet would create a post about promotions and maturity, after having a tantrum on a uniform thread and creating 2 troll accounts to further fuel his/her adolescent rant to the point a mod had to lock the thread.

To the point in your other thread, promotions boards are at the discretion of the CC. If they are being held, and everything is done per 52-16, there's really no arguement to be made.

[abdsp51]

You also realize not all squadrons actually follow through with that right? You really need to stop trying to prove people wrong lol that's all I'm gonna say.

I find it interesting that a Cadet would create a post about promotions and maturity, after having a tantrum on a uniform thread and creating 2 troll accounts to further fuel his/her adolescent rant to the point a mod had to lock the thread.

To the point in your other thread, promotions boards are at the discretion of the CC. If they are being held, and everything is done per 52-16, there's really no arguement to be made.

Just a note 52-16 says promotion boards will be held and a CAPF50 will be the basis for the board.