Gen Vazquez's Statement on CAP Part of USAF Total Force

[RiverAux]

This is based on specific locations and individual experiences. I've seen quite the opposite in my AOR. We have a great relationship with the Air Force and support them in many ways.

I was citing my specific experience, but I think it goes beyond just relationships between specific units.  Since the CG has direct control over almost everything of any significance relating to the Aux they take a much greater interest in and responsibility for the Aux.  It is undeniable that at all levels the CG Aux has a closer relationship with the CG than CAP does with the AF.  A big part of that is structural differences between the two organizations.

Would the CG Aux be as isolated and generally ignored as CAP has been by the AF if they were as independent of AF control as CAP is?  Probably so. 

This total force thing is good in a generic way for CAP and may possibly lead to a few specific improvements in the relationship, I don't think there is a chance of CAP ever getting as close to the AF as the CG Aux is to the CG until such time as the federal laws relating to CAP are changed such that the AF actually totally controls CAP.  I'm not sure that would actually be a good thing since it seems that the real growth in our missions is more likely to come based on our relationships with state and local agencies rather than being closer to the AF. 

[TarRiverRat]

When I was in the CG Auxiliary I had a great relationship with the Active side, but I had to seek out those relationships.  My flotilla did a great service on Lake Gaston, but they seemed to only want to do Lake Gaston and seemed like more of a boating club.  Lot of older gentleman and a few older ladies that were quite satisfied to putter around the lake.  A few of us younger ones went out and trained with the Active and got invited to work on Cutters, aircraft, and did radio watches on bases.  They loved it when we did radio watches.  We would bring chili for everyone and the ones that was supposed to work may be able to get a pass to go home and visit family.  We all wore the same uniform no matter weight or grooming.  Our uniforms and insignia had Auxiliary or the letter "A" on them.  If we were staff officers for the flotilla, our insignia looked like a 2Lt bar with a red "A".  We would wear that with the flotilla and for Auxiliary events.  If we worked at the bases or on the different CG facilities, we would wear the USCG Auxiliary Member pin instead.  I always figured it was so we would not look like officers while walking around base.  I enjoyed my time with the Auxiliary, but I missed CAP and wanted to come back.  My dad was USAAC / USAAF during WWII and I wanted to come back to the Auxiliary of the US Air Force for that reason.  I have mixed feeling about being called an Airmen.  If the General says that is what we are then so be it.  I have no problem being called a Volunteer Airman. 

[ZigZag911]

We should all stop looking for concrete "benefits" from this change in status.

We should also stop being so cynical about it.

Let's look at it for what it appears to be: recognition by the Air Force of CAP's decades of service.

Think of it as an early 75th anniversary gift!

[Panache]

Let's look at it for what it appears to be: recognition by the Air Force of CAP's decades of service.

^^ This.

I've always considered myself a "CAP Airman".  Nothing has changed.

[Eaker Guy]

Let's look at it for what it appears to be: recognition by the Air Force of CAP's decades of service.

^^ This.

I've always considered myself a "CAP Airman".  Nothing has changed.

+1

[PHall]

The "Usual Suspects" here will always find the dark side of the USAF - CAP relationship.
It's all they know how to do...

[radioconsult]

It is my understanding that this will change our CAP ID cards from something that is currently useless for base access at most bases, to a form with the biometric information that will meet the requirements for base access, maybe not a CAC card but something better than what we have now. Actually this was something that was brought up by the General himself  at our annual Wing banquet where he was the keynote speaker.

[Storm Chaser]

That was already possible even without this announcement. The main issue preventing us from having more suitable ID cards is cost.

[abdsp51]

It is my understanding that this will change our CAP ID cards from something that is currently useless for base access at most bases, to a form with the biometric information that will meet the requirements for base access, maybe not a CAC card but something better than what we have now. Actually this was something that was brought up by the General himself  at our annual Wing banquet where he was the keynote speaker.

Base access is really only an issue for folks that don't want to play by the rules.  Simply being CAP does not grant access.  All of the instalations I have been at have been relatively CAP friendly when it came to access.  Problem lies with people who feel simply because a CAPR and an AFI that applies to only a small section of the AF are the key to the city. 

[TarRiverRat]

I have never had any problems getting access to an Air Force Base using my CAP card.  I was always polite and gave them the info they needed and was granted access.  If they told me no this time, I would say thank you and move on.  I would not make an issue of it and they appreciated it.  I only had a few times where the base guard would ask what is CAP and I would explain it.  He would make a phone call to verify and they would grant me access.  I would only go to the base if I really needed something that I was allowed to have from clothing sales, which is very rare now these days due to weight standards for me at this time.

[Fubar]

Maybe more folks in the AF will know about us now, assuming the "Total Force" concept is taught internally.

That seems like a good thing to me.

[Brit_in_CAP]

CAP Talk complains that USAF never shows us any love.

USAF shows us some love.

CAP Talk complains about USAF showing us love.

:clap: :clap:

[TheSkyHornet]

This is based on specific locations and individual experiences. I've seen quite the opposite in my AOR. We have a great relationship with the Air Force and support them in many ways.

The same can be said of the USCGAux. There are units that are active and work closely with the USCG. And there are others that get together to talk about boats and not much else. Unfortunately, where you are and which unit you belong to makes a different in these two organizations.

Very true. Many CAP units and USCG Aux units are on indefinite standby, as in they conduct their own preparedness exercises but really don't get the...opportunity, if that's a correct way of putting it...to go on live missions. Now, in reality, we hope no live mission ever comes up because we don't want to see anyone get hurt, but conducting a live mission is part of that rationale behind of lot of people opining as to whether or not CAP and USCG Aux are always on standby or are mission ready and active.

The subject of the "Airman" status came up at our meeting yesterday, as I'm sure it's something to be discussed at every CAP meeting at least once since the press release. We had a few people who said they favor the comments from Maj Gen Vazquez, and some people who said they do not want to refer to CAP as airmen because we don't get DD 214s after leaving CAP. I think this argument has become too in-depth over semantics.

Are we the United States Air Force Auxiliary or not? Yes, we are. Embrace your standing with the Air Force. Wear the uniform proudly. And carry yourself to represent the CAP Core Values.

[NIN]

I prefer this guy's take:

"We're not Watusi. We're not Spartans. We're Americans. With capital 'A', huh?"

That kind of "capital A"

[TheSkyHornet]

I prefer this guy's take:

"We're not Watusi. We're not Spartans. We're Americans. With capital 'A', huh?"

That kind of "capital A"

[Flying Pig]

As a veteran, should i choose to rejoin in the future I dont see myself ever referring to myself as a CAP Airman.  Im simply a member of Civil Air Patrol.   "Airman" is a title specific to people who are serving in the military.   Is it semantics?  A little bit.  But as a former Marine I believe titles have purposes.  Being a CAP Airman I think goes a bit father than what CAP is doing.  We arent deploying, we come and go at our pleasure.  There is never a time when CAP may have to calculate acceptable losses.  Airman is a term that embodies responsibilities and a lifestyle we do not have to deal with.    Just my thoughts.  Granted, if the USAF wants to call us "Airmen" then its their title to award I guess.

[Capt Thompson]

There is never a time when CAP may have to calculate acceptable losses.  Airman is a term that embodies responsibilities and a lifestyle we do not have to deal with.

65 "Members," including Cadets, lost during WWII while performing missions for the Army Air Corps definitely earned the title "Airmen." A big part of this title the Air Force has bestowed on us is a recognition for every member who has served over the past 74 years, and the sacrifices many have made.

[THRAWN]

"Airman" is a title specific to people who are serving in the military.

Wrong. The FAA issues Airmen certifications, makes frequent reference to "civil airmen" and I'm pretty sure they're not the military...

[Flying Pig]

"Airman" is a title specific to people who are serving in the military.

Wrong. The FAA issues Airmen certifications, makes frequent reference to "civil airmen" and I'm pretty sure they're not the military...

Really?  That the correlation you drew?  Not even the same context of the word.  "Airman" is a title the USAF uses to denote members serving in that branch, like Soldier, Sailor, Marine, Coast Guardsman.  I really thought one would understand I was referring to titles used in the military context. 

[Flying Pig]

There is never a time when CAP may have to calculate acceptable losses.  Airman is a term that embodies responsibilities and a lifestyle we do not have to deal with.

65 "Members," including Cadets, lost during WWII while performing missions for the Army Air Corps definitely earned the title "Airmen." A big part of this title the Air Force has bestowed on us is a recognition for every member who has served over the past 74 years, and the sacrifices many have made.

Then I stand corrected on "never".  Yes, there have been CAP members who hung it out there in combat.  I sorta chuckle when I think about what if CAP was connected to the Marines Corps :clap:.  You could all be Marines.  Interesting to look back in time.   You are all now Airmen, and should I ever rejoin, I imagine I could claim the title as well.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=14187.0