If you were a gambling man...

[Ned]

One >easy< fix in the interim is to actually enforce the existing regulations, across the board,
with ramifications for non-compliance, especially willful or repeated.  As I have said before,
if the willful offenders in the leadership (at all levels) were actually held to the standard they espouse,
things would change overnight.

I agree. 

Interestingly, however, enforcement is a prickly issue not just with the leadership, but also the rank and file.  You may recall that I wrote some language about weigh-ins that was included in a draft of the 39-1 that was released for comment.  I tried to make it as gentle and non-threatening as possible (weigh-ins publicized in advance, optional, done privately, etc.) and there was quite a negative reaction right here on CT.  So strong, in fact, was the feedback from both here and the field that the language was removed.

It seems like enforcement is only popular in the third person "he, she, or they" should have the h/w/grooming standards enforced.  Not quite so popular in the first person.

But I agree that enforcement is certainly both an individual and command responsibility that could be greatly improved.

[Майор Хаткевич]

One >easy< fix in the interim is to actually enforce the existing regulations, across the board,
with ramifications for non-compliance, especially willful or repeated.  As I have said before,
if the willful offenders in the leadership (at all levels) were actually held to the standard they espouse,
things would change overnight.

I agree. 

Interestingly, however, enforcement is a prickly issue not just with the leadership, but also the rank and file.  You may recall that I wrote some language about weigh-ins that was included in a draft of the 39-1 that was released for comment.  I tried to make it as gentle and non-threatening as possible (weigh-ins publicized in advance, optional, done privately, etc.) and there was quite a negative reaction right here on CT.  So strong, in fact, was the feedback from both here and the field that the language was removed.

It seems like enforcement is only popular in the third person "he, she, or they" should have the h/w/grooming standards enforced.  Not quite so popular in the first person.

But I agree that enforcement is certainly both an individual and command responsibility that could be greatly improved.

There's your problem. It was wishy washy, apparently. And now it's been removed.


If it was an annual thing, required (if you choose to wear AF Style uniforms), and to be recorded in Eservices, that's fine. But leaving it "optional" with "non-threatening" language would have guaranteed the measures failure anyway.

[Angus]

One >easy< fix in the interim is to actually enforce the existing regulations, across the board,
with ramifications for non-compliance, especially willful or repeated.  As I have said before,
if the willful offenders in the leadership (at all levels) were actually held to the standard they espouse,
things would change overnight.

I agree. 

Interestingly, however, enforcement is a prickly issue not just with the leadership, but also the rank and file.  You may recall that I wrote some language about weigh-ins that was included in a draft of the 39-1 that was released for comment.  I tried to make it as gentle and non-threatening as possible (weigh-ins publicized in advance, optional, done privately, etc.) and there was quite a negative reaction right here on CT.  So strong, in fact, was the feedback from both here and the field that the language was removed.

It seems like enforcement is only popular in the third person "he, she, or they" should have the h/w/grooming standards enforced.  Not quite so popular in the first person.

But I agree that enforcement is certainly both an individual and command responsibility that could be greatly improved.

Part of that sounds like you're channeling Ben Franklin.

[Ned]

But leaving it "optional" with "non-threatening" language would have guaranteed the measures failure anyway.

To be fair, as written it was only "optional" if you were under 18 and/or did not want to wear the AF-style uniforms.  Otherwise it was required.

But as you note, in any event it is moot at this point.

And FWIW, I'm one of the few CAP officers that has both required and conducted weigh-ins for folks wanting to wear USAF style uniforms.  I thought it worked out pretty well.

[THRAWN]

Lord and Nin-

You are behaving like bullies to Thrawn and Panache. I thought you were better than that.

Thanks, although it's hardly bullying. If they stole my milk money, maybe....

Eclipse, you said that one "easy" fix, would be to enforce the existing regs. Agreed. However, wouldn't an easier fix be to drop the AF service uniform for SMs all thogether? Let's face it. That's the only AF style uniform on the list right now. Put all SMs in a common corporate style uniform (as much as it pains me, the Pineda suit comes to mind), and all members in a single style utility.

usafaux2004, you hit on the weigh ins and some of the key issues surrounding the wear of the GW kit. Sure you and I could "get away with it", but something about integrity prevents that. Single non AF uniform, CAP distinctive, eliminates the need for weigh ins, and doesn't have to put commanders in the "Well Joe's a nice guy and my pencil isn't sharp" position...

Garibaldi, I haven't been called belligerent in weeks. Thank you.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Agreed. However, wouldn't an easier fix be to drop the AF service uniform for SMs all thogether? Let's face it. That's the only AF style uniform on the list right now. Put all SMs in a common corporate style uniform (as much as it pains me, the Pineda suit comes to mind), and all members in a single style utility.

Semi-agreed...on the grounds that it isn't the bloody awful current "corporate" suit.  I want to look like someone with something to do with aviation, not a security guard, a Realtor, a corporate executive, a volunteer in a hospital who gives people directions (again, no offence to any of those)...at least something that has a connection with our heritage and/or the AF and/or aviation in general.

I have the blue uniform but currently cannot wear it due to medical issues (medication side effects) that put me over the limit.  I could wear it, but I won't.  So I wear the uniform I loathe, out of integrity issues.  However, I'll be [darn]ed if I ever wear that blazer getup.  IIRC (Colonel Lee, please feel free to correct me), that kit was designed for IACE originally.  I am not on IACE, not yet anyway.

Even the regs for the G/W are illogical enough to make a Vulcan's blood boil bilious green.  It is supposed to be a "civilian" kit but there are at least two military items authorised with it that I know of - the AF blue cardigan and the AF blue tie.

Colonel Lee, I do not expect an explanation from you...you are no longer on the national leadership and it would be illogical to vent at someone who is powerless to change things.

Thanks, although it's hardly bullying. If they stole my milk money, maybe....

The last person who tried to steal my milk money (actually, lunch money, since as a kid I was violently allergic to dairy products) way back in elementary school ended up having a lengthy "session" with the school nurse.   I don't suffer bullies, which is one reason I got involved in CAP, to try and give kids a bully-free environment.

[Garibaldi]

Garibaldi, I haven't been called belligerent in weeks. Thank you.

I would expect nothing less in a Chiss Grand Admiral..but I did say at times. We call can be. Even an alky chief of security...

[Eclipse]

Interestingly, however, enforcement is a prickly issue not just with the leadership, but also the rank and file.

So?  Its a baseline requirement, and generally as visible as hangar rash.

Enforcement is required today, yet it's almost universally ignored at many of the highest levels.

Enforcement today requires no new regs, special language, or any other changes, it only requires command imperative.

We have plenty of time for CGMs, new grade structures, and other pet projects, but running the actual program seems
to be too much to ask.

And for the record, the >only< people for whom it's "prickly" are those who are violating the regulations,
so why do we care what they think or if they are uncomfortable?

[THRAWN]

Garibaldi, I haven't been called belligerent in weeks. Thank you.

I would expect nothing less in a Chiss Grand Admiral..but I did say at times. We call can be. Even an alky chief of security...

Literally lol-ing out loud. Wonder how many even get that reference...

[Eclipse]

That was pretty good!

[Angus]

Garibaldi, I haven't been called belligerent in weeks. Thank you.

I would expect nothing less in a Chiss Grand Admiral..but I did say at times. We call can be. Even an alky chief of security...

Literally lol-ing out loud. Wonder how many even get that reference...

Only if you had blue skin. 

[THRAWN]

Garibaldi, I haven't been called belligerent in weeks. Thank you.

I would expect nothing less in a Chiss Grand Admiral..but I did say at times. We call can be. Even an alky chief of security...

Literally lol-ing out loud. Wonder how many even get that reference...

Only if you had blue skin. 

Well I am holding my breath in anticipation of the 39-1 release....

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

And for the record, the >only< people for whom it's "prickly" are those who are violating the regulations, so why do we care what they think or if they are uncomfortable?

Slight addendum: I would say that it is also "prickly" for those who do obey the regulations by wearing a uniform they dislike but have no other options (within regs)...even though they could break regulations and wear the one they want to wear.

(Which is why I wear the BlBDU/blue flight suit whenever possible, so I can at least feel good about what I am wearing.)

[Panache]

Panache, if the name tags on the blue BDUs are pushing you over the edge, I submit to you that perhaps there are other things going on.

There are, as I've shared with some other folks.  If you want, I'll PM you.  I think I've used up my Public Ranting ration for the week.

Lord and Nin-

You are behaving like bullies to Thrawn and Panache. I thought you were better than that.

I thank you for your concern, sir, but I don't feel as if they're bullying us.  We've all gotten into more, um, "strongly worded discussions" on CAPTalk before.

You may recall that I wrote some language about weigh-ins that was included in a draft of the 39-1 that was released for comment.  I tried to make it as gentle and non-threatening as possible (weigh-ins publicized in advance, optional, done privately, etc.) and there was quite a negative reaction right here on CT.  So strong, in fact, was the feedback from both here and the field that the language was removed.

CyBorg was right.  Status Quo is God.

I want to look like someone with something to do with aviation, not a security guard, a Realtor, a corporate executive

If it came with the perks of being a corporate executive, I may be more open to the idea....

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

CyBorg was right.  Status Quo is God.

Well, I would leave the theological terminology out...but the status quo is the status quo, and looks to remain the status quo:

"Can't wear the AF uniform?  OK, we've got this ugly, colourless 'uniform'...suck it up and wear it."

[Shuman 14]

Garibaldi, I haven't been called belligerent in weeks. Thank you.

I would expect nothing less in a Chiss Grand Admiral..but I did say at times. We call can be. Even an alky chief of security...

Literally lol-ing out loud. Wonder how many even get that reference...

[Shuman 14]

All kidding aside, if I a patron member, with, as many here like to point out, no horse in this race, can figure it out... why can't your leadership?

You have hard working volunteers, who put in hundreds of hours, but get treated like second class citizens. Why? Because of weight issues or grooming issues? Seriously? It's amazing that CAP retains as many of these volunteers as it does.

But I'm wrong for pointing out the gorilla in the room.... because I'm an outsider.

CAP needs to come up with one service/dress uniform, one feild/working uniform, and one flight uniform for ALL senior members. This two class system needs to end... its just wrong.

[THRAWN]

Garibaldi, I haven't been called belligerent in weeks. Thank you.

I would expect nothing less in a Chiss Grand Admiral..but I did say at times. We call can be. Even an alky chief of security...

Literally lol-ing out loud. Wonder how many even get that reference...

The other reference in that comment. I get the reference to the Empire's last Grand Admiral...

[Shuman 14]

Garibaldi, I haven't been called belligerent in weeks. Thank you.

I would expect nothing less in a Chiss Grand Admiral..but I did say at times. We call can be. Even an alky chief of security...

Literally lol-ing out loud. Wonder how many even get that reference...

The other reference in that comment. I get the reference to the Empire's last Grand Admiral...

Sorry my Bad. 

[RogueLeader]

Garibaldi, I haven't been called belligerent in weeks. Thank you.

I would expect nothing less in a Chiss Grand Admiral..but I did say at times. We call can be. Even an alky chief of security...

Literally lol-ing out loud. Wonder how many even get that reference...

Only if you had blue skin. 

And glowing red eyes, plus blue-black hair. . . .