Drone ‘Stigma’ Means ‘Less Skilled’ Pilots at Controls of Deadly Robots

Started by Майор Хаткевич, April 30, 2014, 07:24:52 PM

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Майор Хаткевич

http://news.yahoo.com/drone-stigma-means-less-skilled-pilots-controls-deadly-150240278--abc-news-topstories.html


Quote"Let's be honest, when people dream about flying... People in this generation didn't grow up and say, 'I want to fly an RPA [remotely piloted aircraft],'" Air Force spokesperson Jennifer Cassidy told ABC News last week. "They were the ones that watched re-runs of 'Top Gun' and said, 'I want to be a fighter pilot.'... So in fact the people that were lower ranking [in flight school], I guess you could say, are the folks that went to RPAs. It doesn't mean they were bad pilots, or bad officers, it just meant you got to have some at the top and some at the bottom. That's how that worked."

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[/size]I'm not going to lie. My vision sucks. I hated flying (and of course wanted to be a pilot prior to that). I make good money. I would SERIOUSLY consider doing a drone job. Bring back the Warrants, make up the criteria, let people apply. No need to break the dreams of the kids who really DID want to fly.

Eclipse

Ditto - I'm not impressed by flying beyond respect for the time and effort it takes to become a pilot.

I view it as a means to an end, like any other mode of transport - it might be different if they
scaled aircraft for "normal" sized people of this century, but physics are physics, folding myself in
half for an extended period of time is a necessary, unpleasant evil, whether for CAP or other travel.

I've said it before, merely quoting others.  The last fighter pilot has already been born, and we
will see autonomous commercial airlines within our lifetime.  Like space travel, flying is a victim
of its own success.

100 years ago driving was pretty impressive, too, now it's routine and we're moving towards
autonomous cars as well.

There will always be niches for those who like to do things themselves, or view flying as a sport,
but their numbers will dwindle increasingly in the coming years.

GA flying hasn't been viable from an economic or time perspective for years, if not decades,
assuming it ever was.  The days of an airport in every small town are long gone, and occasionally
avoiding TSA is not a good ROI on the cost of training, proficiency, rentals, and
other ancillary expenses, not to mention the raw cost of a running engine.  By the time you pull
out the plane, do your preflights, flight planning, etc., etc., you're not saving any time.  Rinse, repeat
on the destination side, and that assumes nothing breaks.

Then there are the economics of cheap commercial flying, which make working at McDonald's seem
more attractive then being a new pilot, and in some cases McD's pays more.

What I didn't see in the article is the fact that drone operators today are more a holdover then
a requirement.  Within 10 years they won't be necessary, either, for anything but combat operations,
and even then only for the illusion of a human hand over a trigger.


"That Others May Zoom"

lordmonar

Nothing new....but as the article said...."less skilled" is not the same thing as unskilled.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

HGjunkie

The AFA is going to a new system starting next year where when you you apply for the IFT/UPT program, you're essentially applying with a blank check - they determine if you go into Drone, CSO or Pilot tracks. It's still most likely based on performance, but I'm not too clear on it and it seems like a way for them to get their Drone quotas up considering they WAY underfill their slots for it.
••• retired
2d Lt USAF

Eclipse

Quote from: lordmonar on April 30, 2014, 08:19:40 PM
Nothing new....but as the article said...."less skilled" is not the same thing as unskilled.

True enough, as they say "The worst player in the NBA is still in the NBA."

"That Others May Zoom"

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: Eclipse on April 30, 2014, 08:22:19 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on April 30, 2014, 08:19:40 PM
Nothing new....but as the article said...."less skilled" is not the same thing as unskilled.

True enough, as they say "The worst player in the NBA is still in the NBA."

But those guys make a fraction of the others.

What's the logic of drone controllers being full pilots? I understand they need to know HOW flying works, but the same training?

Eclipse

Quote from: usafaux2004 on April 30, 2014, 08:28:52 PMI understand they need to know HOW flying works, but the same training?

Old school mentality that won't live past economic realities.

It's no different then hams thinking you need understand the physics of radio to use one, computer people
thinking you need to understand the guts of a PC to use the internet, or for that matter knowing
what S-S-B-B is in order to drive a car.

It usually take a couple of generations to change.

"That Others May Zoom"

lordmonar

Quote from: usafaux2004 on April 30, 2014, 08:28:52 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on April 30, 2014, 08:22:19 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on April 30, 2014, 08:19:40 PM
Nothing new....but as the article said...."less skilled" is not the same thing as unskilled.

True enough, as they say "The worst player in the NBA is still in the NBA."

But those guys make a fraction of the others.

What's the logic of drone controllers being full pilots? I understand they need to know HOW flying works, but the same training?
Well that's one of the reasons why they have full on pilots and RPA operators (non flyer line officers).

But now you are getting into why there is a stigma in the first place.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Luis R. Ramos

Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

arajca

4 step engine cycle - intake, compression, ignition, exhaust - Suck-Squeeze-Bang-Blow.

Майор Хаткевич


arajca


Майор Хаткевич


Luis R. Ramos

Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on April 30, 2014, 09:09:37 PM
I think I'll stick with Arajca's explanation for now...


But from Smash Bros you can draw a line to MarioKart, so maybe that's what it means after all?  >:D

SunDog

A lot (most? in $$$?) of GA isn't light aircraft- it includes just about anything that isn't scheduled or military.  Rode in a few Gulfstreams that didn't require many contortions.  I think Navy and USAF did relax rules on corrected vision, and also surgically corrected vision, over the not too distant past.

GA saves a lot of time for corporate types - you have a mine in North Dakota, an expert engineer in Provo, and a critical part in Omaha, and a million $$$ a day slipping away, the scheduled airlines won't be much help.  Down at the low end, my 400 mile trip once a month is 8 hours by car, 5 by airlines, 3 1/2 (or less) by light aircraft.  And more expensive flying myself, for sure! Though not much more than airline tickets, on short notice.

Niches for sure, but that's true of a lot of business. FedEx and UPS make it work for a profit. I think NetJets may, as well. Essential in Alaska, of course, and some places out west.  Quite a few self-employed people use GA aircraft to touch a lot of customers in a day or tywo, ones that might take a week in the scheduled airlines.

Anyway, real BIG hurdles to follow for regular autonomous use of aircraft with soft pink bodies in them - the last mile will be tough; see the current state of software devlopment, and the enourmous cost of developing and testing "man rated" software.  Probably too optimistic to believe the last fighter pilot has already been born - there was a lot of that kind of talk about missles vs guns more than half a century ago.

I think maybe a much smaller group of manned fighters, eventually, supplmented in combat by autonomous aircraft - likely NOT needing a ground-bound operator.  Maybe the last fighter pilot's great-grandpa was born today?  Second and third world air forces? Maybe great-great grandpa?  I think the ground-bound operator will go Away before the manned aircraft do - a ground "observor" might use a FMS-like system to ask the vehicle to manuveuar as need - the oberservor won't have/need piloting skills. It may be that the last drone pilot has already been born?

Any geo area with ambitions of economic signifigance will need aiport(s) - regionals, at least, and some a little farther down the food chain, as well.  Airport access is always on corporate checklists for locations, especially locations distant from a major. Probably need a reasonable airport (3,000' hard surface, fuel) within 45 minutes or so, if your town wants to be a player. Not every case, fer sure, but in general.

Might be a while before mission-specific autonomous vehicles are actually cheaper to operate, as well.  I read something about the Navy shelfing the predator in favor of U2's in some application, in order to save money. . .though I guess a Predator wasn't complelety autonomous? Maybe it doesn't matter where the pilot is sitting - you still gotta pay him, and I guess in the case of the Predator, you needed a real pilot?

Spaceman3750

Quote from: usafaux2004 on April 30, 2014, 08:28:52 PM
What's the logic of drone controllers being full pilots? I understand they need to know HOW flying works, but the same training?

Doesn't the FAA still require military drones in the US to be operated by someone at least rated PPL, or am I behind on the times?

lordmonar

Quote from: Spaceman3750 on April 30, 2014, 11:25:30 PM
Quote from: usafaux2004 on April 30, 2014, 08:28:52 PM
What's the logic of drone controllers being full pilots? I understand they need to know HOW flying works, but the same training?

Doesn't the FAA still require military drones in the US to be operated by someone at least rated PPL, or am I behind on the times?
Well...that's one of the problems....the FAA has yet to come out with any real rules.   But the Army is flying MQ-1Cs with Sgts and the Non-flier line officers may or may not have a PPL.   Some of the Drone Pilots in the early stages were/are only navigators...but I thing they all had civilian PPLs. 
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

BHartman007

The FAA will not currently allow drones (like Predators) to fly in controlled airspace unless (and even then the red tape is mind boggling) it is being escorted by a real plane with human eyes on it.

Wing Assistant Director of Administration
Squadron Deputy Commander for Cadets

Mustang

Quote from: Spaceman3750 on April 30, 2014, 11:25:30 PM
Quote from: usafaux2004 on April 30, 2014, 08:28:52 PM
What's the logic of drone controllers being full pilots? I understand they need to know HOW flying works, but the same training?

Doesn't the FAA still require military drones in the US to be operated by someone at least rated PPL, or am I behind on the times?

Depends. I used to be a factory pilot for General Atomics Aeronautical Systems, manufacturer of the Predator, Reaper and Avenger, and one had to be commercial/instrument rated with at least a Class 2 medical certificate. We, along with our contemporaries at Boeing and Northrop Grumman, were the "heavy iron" of the UAV world and all had similar requirements. I don't believe operators of the smaller UAV systems (Hunter, Shadow, Scan Eagle, etc) had such stringent requirements.

The FAA does indeed have rules requiring a Certificate of Authorization for all UAV ops within the National Airspace System, and a chase aircraft is required outside Special Use Airspace (restricted areas, generally) or Class A airspace (where UAVs can and do operate under IFR, with all the ATC separation services that implies, without chase aircraft).
"Amateurs train until they get it right; Professionals train until they cannot get it wrong. "


Bear555

Speaking from experience, 'Comm/Inst & medical' is a common standard world-wide for flying larger RPAS - even where no rules exist. It's widely accepted as a 'sensible' level of qualification and experience.