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Exit Surveys

Started by jeders, April 07, 2014, 04:16:20 PM

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jeders

One thing I hear repeated on CAPTalk when it comes to membership being bled from the organization is a lack of understanding of why. Why did this person who has been in for 20 years leave, why did we fail to grab the attention of a new member; and the answer always comes back, "we don't know." I have heard repeated calls for NHQ to do exit surveys in hopes of figuring some of this out. When I let my membership lapse for 6 months more than a year ago there was no such exit survey, no one from higher up cared to learn why I had left. After continually beating my head against the wall that is CAP as hard as I can, I again let my membership lapse when it expired in December.

However, this time someone wants to know why. I just received an email from NHQ asking me to take an exit survey about why I left. It was short and simple, and the choices for why you left (bad leadership, undervalued, wasting time, etc...) are all topics that get discussed and rehashed here routinely. It also asks what you like the most and least about CAP and gives ample opportunity for you to tell your own side of the story should it not fit neatly into a multiple choice check box.

So national is listening, and while change to the status quo are slow, even glacial, they are changes nonetheless. I just hope now that national actually does something with this survey and doesn't just dump it in another black hole.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

Walkman

Unfortunately, I think the negative things that bring good people to leave aren't necessarily things that NHQ can do much about. We've rehashed the "this CC isn't doing a good job, but he's the only one willing to take the position" problem a thousand times, as well as the "I'm working in the background doing a lot of things, but nobody notices because I'm not a pilot" scenario.

Maybe better training and professional development will help in some cases. But, as pessimistic as this sounds, we're a group of volunteers doing the best we can with what we've got and sometime in that case, the best we got ain't all that great.

jeders

Quote from: Walkman on April 07, 2014, 05:16:28 PM
Unfortunately, I think the negative things that bring good people to leave aren't necessarily things that NHQ can do much about.

You're probably right. But nothing can get better if we don't first ask why these people are leaving. I know in my case, there's little to nothing that national can do to get me to rejoin any time soon, but at least now they know why I left. If they choose to share these surveys with the appropriate region and wing commanders, maybe something will change, maybe not. I am, however, glad to see them at least asking the questions.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

Alaric

I have never seen the point of exit surveys.  If someone is leaving, its too late.  We should be polling our members while they are serving, not after they have already been frustrated and left.  I'd love to see NHQ do this, as opposed to soliciting members for money.

Papabird

Quote from: Alaric on April 07, 2014, 06:25:38 PM
I have never seen the point of exit surveys.  If someone is leaving, its too late.  We should be polling our members while they are serving, not after they have already been frustrated and left.  I'd love to see NHQ do this, as opposed to soliciting members for money.

Sounds good to me!

If it results in retention of a current member, wouldn't that member then pay dues?  So, it would be better internal fundraising than anything else as you get money and a person to assist in performing the mission(s).
Michael Willis, Lt. Col CAP
Georgia Wing

Eclipse

Alaric makes a good point, and further, the disgruntled may tend to exaggerate issues or even make them up where they
don't exist, though with that said, anything is better then nothing.

My personal experience has been that CAP on the whole disdains statistics that paint anything but a rosy
picture, and the response to having reality presented tends to be apathetic crickets tinged with defensiveness over
being held responsible.

You can get where you're going if you don't know where you are, but the way CAP wanders around aimlessly,
it can be scary to look up, because you won't like the neighborhood.

Better to just keep your head down and hope you eventually get where you were going - except CAP doesn't always
know where it wants to go, either.

"That Others May Zoom"

Flying Pig

I don't see many people over my time, leaving because of anything NHQ can deal with.  Its usually issues internal to the local Sq or Grp.  Someone just isn't getting what they were looking for, not enough free flight time, ES training and mission wasn't like they had hoped it would be.  Some people it may be money and they are to proud to say that.  Some people (my case) just ran out of free time in their schedule.

I enjoyed my time immensely when I was in and active.  I wish I could go back to those days of flying around with "Bosshawk" and the rest of the crew.  In addition to not having a lot of free time, I was having a hard time finding anything meaningful that I could do.  I was going to stick around and try to get deep into CP, but when my son decided CAP wasn't his thing, I couldn't justify the time away.

When people say they are leaving because of an NCO program, or because of something related to Professional Development ..... I just shrug because if that is the reason, then there is the door. 

Eclipse

Quote from: Flying Pig on April 07, 2014, 07:12:05 PM
I don't see many people over my time, leaving because of anything NHQ can deal with.  Its usually issues internal to the local Sq or Grp.  Someone just isn't getting what they were looking for, not enough free flight time, ES training and mission wasn't like they had hoped it would be.  Some people it may be money and they are to proud to say that.  Some people (my case) just ran out of free time in their schedule.

I'd say I agree, but the experience between units shouldn't be so radically different, the command imperative to fix that >is< something
NHQ could, if not "fix" at least exert pressure on.

CAP isn't designed to allowed units to specialize or treat the mission like a menu, yet many do, to the detriment or all involved.

"That Others May Zoom"

The CyBorg is destroyed

I know many who have left because they have felt like they were "spinning their wheels;" i.e., not getting anywhere in CAP.

I wonder how much of that could be divided into the fault of NHQ, the fault of the local unit and the fault of the departing member.
Exiled from GLR-MI-011

SunDog

I'll be expiring later this year, so I'd not let NHQ off the hook too much. . .probably 70% of my frustration is under NHQ control. The bureacratic overhead eats way too much time - feeding NHQ, clumsy procedures IRT air ops, paper-work hoops without added value. . .add in bad software, bad apps, and just a bad  user experience on-line. 

So it's not one big pole in the tent - just a preponderance of frustrations. Not leaving just because eServices sucks, or becasue of the goofy sortie procedures, or the pseudo-safety nonsense, or, etc., etc.,  More the total experience, the feeling of a lot of time has to be invested that is probably wasted. . .


Eclipse

Quote from: CyBorg on April 07, 2014, 07:51:39 PM
I know many who have left because they have felt like they were "spinning their wheels;" i.e., not getting anywhere in CAP.

I wonder how much of that could be divided into the fault of NHQ, the fault of the local unit and the fault of the departing member.

I'd bet in most cases there's a little bit of blame for everyone.

Just the fact that people join and feel they have to "get somewhere" is part of the problem.

Most people join the ARC or their local CERT or BSA troop to help, not to "get somewhere".

They don't have to reinvent the wheel, they are handed the standard program and told to "work it".
And "working it" keeps them plenty busy enough at the rank and file level to be satisfied and
not worry about inventing things.

But in CAP, things are so poorly and inconsistently implemented that members feel "empowered"
and are generally encouraged to make things "Better!", "Bigger!", and ""Their Own".  What
else do you expect when you recruit people off the street and by the time their ID card is
dry they are running a unit or holding a wing-level staff position?

What NHQ could influence, significantly, are the agreements, MOUs, and top-down relationships
that are a constant sore point and drag on members' time.

Instead of expecting members to walk around to their local EMAs with their hand out, begging to
work for free, get us in the national framework in a meaningful way, and in the office of the state
officials who make the resource decisions.  Shaking hands with a Senator is "cool", but it's the
Governors who will get us the work.

And in the rare instance when someone is actually distracted enough to agree to an MOU
with us locally, NHQ could treat it with the sense of urgency it is supposed to have and actually
get it shopped, edited and back out before the OIC of the respective agency changes jobs and we
have to start over from zero.

Bottom line, idle hands are the devil's workshop.  Busy members won't have time to look around
and see the mess.  And "busy" doesn't mean another round of meaningless checkboxes NO ONE
cares about, but that have to be completed "because".

"That Others May Zoom"

Private Investigator

I like the concept of "exit interviews". When the member leaves it should be sent to: SQCC and cc: Group, Wing and Region Commanders. The bad Squadron Commanders are usually in denial if people leave. If I was guessing 1/3 leaves because of their peers, i.e. good ole boys or bad Commanders. 1/3 because all the hoops involved. The last 1/3 just got tired or can not afford it any more. JMHO, YMMV   8)

Eclipse

^ Might be a good idea to require a quarterly or annual review of those surveys with discussions as to "why".

Trade a monthly safety briefing or two for something of actual value.

"That Others May Zoom"

MSgt Van

Just received the exit survey email this morning. I expired in December. I suppose they wait awhile to weed out those who just forgot to re-up. Interesting to see if anybody from Wing contacts me since I filled in my name, CAP #, etc.

bosshawk

Van: at least you got an inquiry.  When I didn't renew over three years ago, I had no inquiry from Gp, Wing, Region or National.  Of course, I had communicated with the National CC and she knew my feelings.  I was at serious odds with the Region and Wing CCs and the Gp CC was a no-show in anything involving personnel.

If anyone cares, ask Flying Pig what he knew about my departure.  Otherwise, it will take at least three days for me to relate my situation.
Paul M. Reed
Col, USA(ret)
Former CAP Lt Col
Wilson #2777

BillB

At least National is trying to find out WHY people dropped out. BUT it's the Squadron Recruiting and Retention Officers job to see what the problems on the local level may be and forward exit interviews up the chain. Maybe the Squadron CC doesn't realize a problem exists. Exit interviews may give an insight to a problem that can be corrected at the local level. Or, may allow Wing to see a problem and offer help if needed.
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

Майор Хаткевич

Just did the UCC over the weekend. Exit surveys on the local level were discussed, and consensus was that they are really important.

Flying Pig

In the 20yrs I was in CAP I saw that most people just slowly faded away over time.  They didn't officially quite or make a production out of it.   I was probably partially in that boat. People knew I was going to be layig low for a while.  During that time other things filled in the CAP gap.   

Private Investigator

Quote from: bosshawk on April 08, 2014, 02:53:07 AM
Van: at least you got an inquiry.  When I didn't renew over three years ago, I had no inquiry from Gp, Wing, Region or National.  Of course, I had communicated with the National CC and she knew my feelings.  I was at serious odds with the Region and Wing CCs and the Gp CC was a no-show in anything involving personnel.

If anyone cares, ask Flying Pig what he knew about my departure.  Otherwise, it will take at least three days for me to relate my situation.

Colonel, I'll be the first to say we do not take care of our people. Most Commanders think it is the next Commander's job or it is in their job describition. 

Panache

Quote from: Flying Pig on April 08, 2014, 01:55:02 PM
In the 20yrs I was in CAP I saw that most people just slowly faded away over time.  They didn't officially quite or make a production out of it.   

We just lost two members from our squadron in April.  They didn't come in to a meeting one day and say "I quit!".  They just started coming less and less frequently and then just... stopped showing up.