Crewmember wings alternative

[Майор Хаткевич]

Worlds better than the Navy wings in the 39-1 draft...

This was the inspiration...We could probably use another CAP icon as the center, but this way, much like the AF, aircrew wings and pilot wings are different.




Edit: Papabird sees the issue I see as well.

[AlphaSigOU]

Worlds better than the Navy wings in the 39-1 draft...

Ditch the 'CIVIL AIR PATROL' scroll... the shield is good enough as is.

[Майор Хаткевич]

This was a momentary idea done in PS.  Agreed on ditching it, just the concept of a shield/non pilot circle.

[Eclipse]

^ Agreed - would look pretty nice, actually.  Nicer then the MP wings, actually.

[Papabird]

This was a momentary idea done in PS.  Agreed on ditching it, just the concept of a shield/non pilot circle.

But it brings up a better point.  Is there a more rounded & CAP centric symbol that could be used.  Maybe a camera lens, or binoculars or CAP rondelle? 

Remember that the center of USAF officer wings are all shield shaped, and the enlisted aircrew/RPA is circular.
VS

I wonder why all of our wings are circular...    And yes that type of stuff matters to some people.   I don't wear either one so...shrug.

[PHall]

This was a momentary idea done in PS.  Agreed on ditching it, just the concept of a shield/non pilot circle.

But it brings up a better point.  Is there a more rounded & CAP centric symbol that could be used.  Maybe a camera lens, or binoculars or CAP rondelle? 

Remember that the center of USAF officer wings are all shield shaped, and the enlisted aircrew/RPA is circular.
VS

I wonder why all of our wings are circular...    And yes that type of stuff matters to some people.   I don't wear either one so...shrug.

The CAP ones are round probably because of the prop in a triangle in a circle insignia.

[Robert Hartigan]

It has been awhile since I have served on a uniform committee, so forgive me if my heraldry is not 100%. With regard to the wings discussion, the Civil Air Patrol wings and many of its symbols for that matter, should be round!

The round shape is symbolic of a non combatant and recognizes the benevolent nature of the wearers service and hence not hostile intentions. Side note about the USAF enlisted wings: I believe they are round because the airman is not in command. The round disk in the Civil Air Patrol wings is a Lozenge. The shield in the USAF wings is an escutcheon, or scutcheon.

The escutcheon shape is based on the Medieval shields that were used by knights in combat, today our knights would be officers.

Noncombatants, civilians, hospital workers and clergy do not wage war therefore they do not bear a shield. Instead, their symbols are portrayed on a lozenge — a rhombus standing on one of its acute corners or a cartouche (round or oval In shape) for their armorial representation.

And, in the spirit of Public Law 476, (and to stir the pot a bit) which we all know established Civil Air Patrol as a benevolent, non profit organization, the rank insignia of our full colonels should not have arrows, only olive branches.

[PHall]

It has been awhile since I have served on a uniform committee, so forgive me if my heraldry is not 100%. With regard to the wings discussion, the Civil Air Patrol wings and many of its symbols for that matter, should be round!

The round shape is symbolic of a non combatant and recognizes the benevolent nature of the wearers service and hence not hostile intentions. Side note about the USAF enlisted wings: I believe they are round because the airman is not in command. The round disk in the Civil Air Patrol wings is a Lozenge. The shield in the USAF wings is an escutcheon, or scutcheon.

The escutcheon shape is based on the Medieval shields that were used by knights in combat, today our knights would be officers.

Noncombatants, civilians, hospital workers and clergy do not wage war therefore they do not bear a shield. Instead, their symbols are portrayed on a lozenge — a rhombus standing on one of its acute corners or a cartouche (round or oval In shape) for their armorial representation.

And, in the spirit of Public Law 476, (and to stir the pot a bit) which we all know established Civil Air Patrol as a benevolent, non profit organization, the rank insignia of our full colonels should not have arrows, only olive branches.

To futher stir the pot a little...

Yes the USAF Enlisted Aircrew Wings are round, just like the ring around the US insignia that the enlisted wear on their service dress uniforms.

[Mitchell 1969]

GroundHawg is correct. There were three Stewardess Schools for Female cadets. Eastern Airlines, Delta Airlines and one on the west cost somewhere. On graduation of the two week school the cadets were awarded the Stewardess Wings. For some reason there were never produced in the small size for the blouse, only the large size which normally would be worn on thne service coat. Several years ago National told me that 275 female cadets had completed the Stewardess Schools before the program was dropped due to costs.

I met a grand total of one cadet who earned the Stewardess wing. I think she wore it for a year before replacing it with pilot wings.

[Mitchell 1969]

I'll take a stab as to why they were only produced for the "dress" uniform: unlike today, back in the classic era of flight, people dressed to go flying. Men wore ties, women hats, and everybody smoked. Flight crews looked razor sharp. Clean cut, formally dressed....These days, flying commercially is more akin to cross country travel on the big gray dog. The "laid back" nature of dress is reflected by the crews, and typified by the shorts and polos of a "directional" air carrier.

GroundHawg is correct. There were three Stewardess Schools for Female cadets. Eastern Airlines, Delta Airlines and one on the west cost somewhere. On graduation of the two week school the cadets were awarded the Stewardess Wings. For some reason there were never produced in the small size for the blouse, only the large size which normally would be worn on thne service coat. Several years ago National told me that 275 female cadets had completed the Stewardess Schools before the program was dropped due to costs.

I think the exolanation is even easier. In the 60's/70's, 2" wings were optional on the shirt. It was quite common to see 3" (coat size) wings on shirts. Also, the "full size" stewardess wing was already small, about 1.5". No burning need to make a miniature of it.

[Shuman 14]

^ Agreed - would look pretty nice, actually.  Nicer then the MP wings, actually.

Concur and much better than the AC wings shown in the draft.

[Papabird]

It has been awhile since I have served on a uniform committee, so forgive me if my heraldry is not 100%. With regard to the wings discussion, the Civil Air Patrol wings and many of its symbols for that matter, should be round!

The round shape is symbolic of a non combatant and recognizes the benevolent nature of the wearers service and hence not hostile intentions. Side note about the USAF enlisted wings: I believe they are round because the airman is not in command. The round disk in the Civil Air Patrol wings is a Lozenge. The shield in the USAF wings is an escutcheon, or scutcheon.

The escutcheon shape is based on the Medieval shields that were used by knights in combat, today our knights would be officers.

Noncombatants, civilians, hospital workers and clergy do not wage war therefore they do not bear a shield. Instead, their symbols are portrayed on a lozenge — a rhombus standing on one of its acute corners or a cartouche (round or oval In shape) for their armorial representation.

Agreed!  We should have the round shape, overall, that is what I was saying.  I have heard the same explanation about the round for combat (which always made me wonder about the enlisted wings)

Maybe like the USAF Enlisted wings (this is my limit of artistic skill):


Taking our service cap device and putting that in the middle.  What do you all think?

[THRAWN]

complicated and expensive to die.

It has been awhile since I have served on a uniform committee, so forgive me if my heraldry is not 100%. With regard to the wings discussion, the Civil Air Patrol wings and many of its symbols for that matter, should be round!

The round shape is symbolic of a non combatant and recognizes the benevolent nature of the wearers service and hence not hostile intentions. Side note about the USAF enlisted wings: I believe they are round because the airman is not in command. The round disk in the Civil Air Patrol wings is a Lozenge. The shield in the USAF wings is an escutcheon, or scutcheon.

The escutcheon shape is based on the Medieval shields that were used by knights in combat, today our knights would be officers.

Noncombatants, civilians, hospital workers and clergy do not wage war therefore they do not bear a shield. Instead, their symbols are portrayed on a lozenge — a rhombus standing on one of its acute corners or a cartouche (round or oval In shape) for their armorial representation.

Agreed!  We should have the round shape, overall, that is what I was saying.  I have heard the same explanation about the round for combat (which always made me wonder about the enlisted wings)

Maybe like the USAF Enlisted wings (this is my limit of artistic skill):


Taking our service cap device and putting that in the middle.  What do you all think?

[Papabird]

complicated and expensive to die.

Really any more than other designs?  I have not researched the cost, but the others seem to be just about as complex.  If so, the eagle might be simplified to reduce that impact.

But what do you think of the idea.  Specifically it meets the idea of unique and CAP based, but still mirrors USAF closer than what we do with MP/MO wings now.

I just really think the AC Wings in the CAPM 39-1 looks like Navy wings.

[arajca]

I had submitted this design - without the scroll - over a year ago. I had included three levels based on qualification. I never was able to find out how high it got, but apparently someone did not like the idea and I guess it never reached the NUC based on their lack of response on whether they even received it. The one that is in the draft was designed by a former historian and CAPTalk poster.point corrected by appropriate party

[Panache]

Worlds better than the Navy wings in the 39-1 draft...

Ditch the 'CIVIL AIR PATROL' scroll... the shield is good enough as is.

I like these much, much better than the current "AC" wings in the draft (which I'm really hoping is just placeholder art).  Although I would suggest keeping the scroll, but having it say "AIR CREW" instead (one word to either side).  This would further differentiate it from AF pilot wings.

For those in the know, just how much cost would it be to make the tri-prop gold (to make it even more distinct)?  Quite a few (all?) of our specialty track badges as well as some occupational badges (I'm thinking EMT/Paramedic) have more than one color, and they're not horrendously expensive.  And I wager to say that, assuming these would be awarded to Mission Scanners and Aerial Photographers, it would probably be the most frequently worn / sold wings (to help keep the costs down).

[THRAWN]

That eagle is pretty detailed, which would add to the cost of the die. Don't forget, this has to be embroidered and laid out in gold leaf as well. Conceptually, it's good. It's distinct and of a unique enough design to make it distinct from the pilot wings.

complicated and expensive to die.

Really any more than other designs?  I have not researched the cost, but the others seem to be just about as complex.  If so, the eagle might be simplified to reduce that impact.

But what do you think of the idea.  Specifically it meets the idea of unique and CAP based, but still mirrors USAF closer than what we do with MP/MO wings now.

I just really think the AC Wings in the CAPM 39-1 looks like Navy wings.

[James Shaw]

I had submitted this design - without the scroll - over a year ago. I had included three levels based on qualification. I never was able to find out how high it got, but apparently someone did not like the idea and I guess it never reached the NUC based on their lack of response on whether they even received it. The one that is in the draft was designed by a former historian and CAPTalk poster.

I submitted a design, but it was not used.

[arajca]

Worlds better than the Navy wings in the 39-1 draft...

Ditch the 'CIVIL AIR PATROL' scroll... the shield is good enough as is.

I like these much, much better than the current "AC" wings in the draft (which I'm really hoping is just placeholder art).  Although I would suggest keeping the scroll, but having it say "AIR CREW" instead (one word to either side).  This would further differentiate it from AF pilot wings.

I'd say the Navy-style are a done deal, not a place holder. If you look at the other image placeholders, they're all a boxed X.

For those in the know, just how much cost would it be to make the tri-prop gold (to make it even more distinct)?  Quite a few (all?) of our specialty track badges as well as some occupational badges (I'm thinking EMT/Paramedic) have more than one color, and they're not horrendously expensive.  And I wager to say that, assuming these would be awarded to Mission Scanners and Aerial Photographers, it would probably be the most frequently worn / sold wings (to help keep the costs down).

It would probably be cheaper and easier to make an enamalled disk than to just make the prop gold. The prop is a part of the die, so a new die without the prop would be needed plus the prop die, then there's the assembly cost. I checked the back of my EMT badge and it's a GTM badge with an enamalled disk.

[Papabird]

I like these much, much better than the current "AC" wings in the draft (which I'm really hoping is just placeholder art).  Although I would suggest keeping the scroll, but having it say "AIR CREW" instead (one word to either side).  This would further differentiate it from AF pilot wings.

I'd say the Navy-style are a done deal, not a place holder. If you look at the other image placeholders, they're all a boxed X.

For those in the know, just how much cost would it be to make the tri-prop gold (to make it even more distinct)?  Quite a few (all?) of our specialty track badges as well as some occupational badges (I'm thinking EMT/Paramedic) have more than one color, and they're not horrendously expensive.  And I wager to say that, assuming these would be awarded to Mission Scanners and Aerial Photographers, it would probably be the most frequently worn / sold wings (to help keep the costs down).

It would probably be cheaper and easier to make an enamalled disk than to just make the prop gold. The prop is a part of the die, so a new die without the prop would be needed plus the prop die, then there's the assembly cost. I checked the back of my EMT badge and it's a GTM badge with an enamalled disk.
[/quote]

Here is a really cheap idea:
Lol