Time to Evaluate CAP- Purpose and Re-purpose

[lordmonar]

The only thing preventing the smallest squadrons from training is the smallest squadrons.

We also need to move away from this idea that "training" and "qualification" are the same thing or linked inexplicably,
or that SARExs are required to get qualified.

Then they need to drop the two missions requirement from the SQTRs.

[stillamarine]

You can get a training mission number for a squadron size sarex. It doesn't have to be a wing sarex.

[Eclipse]

Then they need to drop the two missions requirement from the SQTRs.

You can get a training mission number for a squadron size sarex. It doesn't have to be a wing sarex.

Also, every wing has monthly A&B mission numbers that you can run sorties against with no notice
or prior coordination.  These can be used for your 2 missions as well.

Creativity will trump excuses any time there's initiative.

[lordmonar]

Then they need to drop the two missions requirement from the SQTRs.

You can get a training mission number for a squadron size sarex. It doesn't have to be a wing sarex.

Also, every wing has monthly A&B mission numbers that you can run sorties against with no notice
or prior coordination.  These can be used for your 2 missions as well.

Creativity will trump excuses any time there's initiative.

I'm with you....use both those things all the time.
But as written.....it is "supposed" to be a real or training "mission" not just training with a mission number.

Personally....like I said before....we just need to drop the two missions requirement. 
For some ratings we should keep the "check ride" requirement and add them to other ratings.

[JeffDG]

But as written.....it is "supposed" to be a real or training "mission" not just training with a mission number.

Says who?  The regulation even puts quotes around the word "mission"

CAPR 60-3, 2-3c

These two "missions" do not have to be on different mission numbers, be AFAMs, or be
completed after all other advanced training is complete, but personnel must have completed all
familiarization and preparatory training in order to receive credit for these sorties.

[lordmonar]

But as written.....it is "supposed" to be a real or training "mission" not just training with a mission number.

Says who?  The regulation even puts quotes around the word "mission"

CAPR 60-3, 2-3c

These two "missions" do not have to be on different mission numbers, be AFAMs, or be
completed after all other advanced training is complete, but personnel must have completed all
familiarization and preparatory training in order to receive credit for these sorties.

So....I go back to my original statement.     They just need to drop the requirement for any "missions" and replace it with a "check ride".

[Eclipse]

But as written.....it is "supposed" to be a real or training "mission" not just training with a mission number.

Um, tne Wing's monthly A&B >are< training missions.  They aren't supposed to be an excuse for burning USAF gas.
There are approved profiles to use, and there's no reason they can't be used as the qualifiers. 

Not the "best practice", but better then nothing.

I disagree on the removal of the missions - even in the A&B you have to do the full paperwork, etc., so
better then nothing.

Also as stated, a unit can gin up a mission whenever they want, and nothing says the IC has to be physically present.

[Private Investigator]

Why aren't CERT members automatically considered ground team members. In a disaster situation, those people have similar roles and do some things that are far more intensive then standard ground team members.

That is a good point. I am CERT qualified and people think it is urban, i.e. 135th Street in Harlem but I know how to safely lift a wall off somebody on First and Main in Petticoat Junction. After tornadoes we always see pictures of Cadets walking thru cities, towns or villages that has been totalled.   

[Private Investigator]

You can get a training mission number for a squadron size sarex. It doesn't have to be a wing sarex.

Exactly   :clap:

[Major Carrales]

The only thing preventing the smallest squadrons from training is the smallest squadrons.

We also need to move away from this idea that "training" and "qualification" are the same thing or linked inexplicably,
or that SARExs are required to get qualified.

Small squadron often have the people to train, but the opportunities are either 1) on the other side of the state, 2) in the big cities or 3) not validated.  By the last point of that I mean that many small squadrons do actually do rigorous training at the squadron level in COMMS and ICS; however, this training does not really "count" for more than proficiency.  I actually agree with the proficiency part, however it would be nice if it counted. We have the technology for distance learning using everything from video conferencing and simulated SAR to chat rooms.  If Wing, Region or National provided some sort of classes, with on line tests to access the learning, we could spend SARex's actually getting true hands on training instead of having to check off things that could be done on meeting night.   

The sorties need to be focused on application of the task not basic knowledge level activities.   

[Eclipse]

Why >aren't< they getting done on a meeting night?  Is ES a part of your 13-week cycle
as more then a ticket punch?  People will do what the CC decides is important.

Once your people are ready, bring the SETs to you.

One decent SET can sign off a whole bunch of >prepared< members rather quickly,
especially in the fam/prep stuff.  The problem is that members aren't prepared, so SETs
show up, watch people bumble around, and won't bother to waste their time the next time
they are called.

The compass course takes 45 minutes?  Pipeline 10 people at a time with different targets,
etc., etc.  All easier said then done, I'll grant that, but if you aren't making the calls and asking
for help, then no one will even know you are interested.

I agree, SAREx's should not be "learn-me" activities, they should be opportunities to show what
you know, and use those baseline skills in a larger context.

[Walkman]

In Wing Conference 2012, I was in a session about squadron-level ES training. One CC brought up that she had lots of people ready & willing to get ES ratings, but currently in the unit was qualified to teach and eval/sign-off tasks. It was mentioned that she should look at neighboring units to see if they could team up, and she responded that the nearest other units were hours in any direction from her. Pretty common story, right?

And then (this was the cool part), two of our Wing ES staffers who were sitting in the corner got up, walked over to her and handed out their cards saying "Both of us will come out to visit your unit any time to help train your people. Seriously. Call us". I never heard the follow up story, but knowing these two. I'm sure they made good on their word.

Once your people are ready, bring the SETs to you.

One decent SET can sign off a whole bunch of >prepared< members rather quickly,
especially in the fam/prep stuff.  The problem is that members aren't prepared, so SETs
show up, watch people bumble around, and won't bother to waste their time the next time
they are called.

Totally agree. One doesn't have to be a fully CAP qualified SET to TEACH a topic, only to evaluate and sign-off. There are a number of basic tasks on GTM3/UDF that an EMT, local LEO/FF, or RM types could competently teach.

In that same vein, I routine ask for newly qualified ES people to teach and train the next group coming in. I've found that teaching something to someone else reinforces and strengthens one's own abilities in that task.

On the original question: I think some serious steroids could be pumped into our ES program. Despite the goobers and units that are 3 hours from anything and all the negatives we've all hashed out here a dozen times, I feel like we have enormous untapped potential in this area. I have no clue how to implement this grand potential, but I really feel its there.

[Eclipse]

I've said for years that the jumpstart into this is to start doing whatever we can today, as hard, fast, and often
as possible.  The momentum will build itself, we just have to get off the couch and make some calls.

Even the most simple, baseline jobs will get us press and recruits, not to mention callbacks.

[Lord of the North]

I've long advocated for more emphasis on ground SAR by CAP as well as development of a real disaster response doctrine for something other than aerial photography and related missions.

Only problem is that we have to deal with 52 States/Districts/Territories/Commonwealths, and they all seem to have their own rules that we have to play by.

Yes, we need to have a core set of capabilities, but we need to be flexiable enough to work with the rules that govern the state we are in.

One would think that the concept of having "Wings" with each a corporate officer able to make certain decisions would mitigate that.  Once size will never fit all.

Unfortunately, there are now NO corporate officers at CAP Wing or Region Level.  So much for that thought.

[Private Investigator]

In Wing Conference 2012, I was in a session about squadron-level ES training. One CC brought up that she had lots of people ready & willing to get ES ratings, but currently in the unit was qualified to teach and eval/sign-off tasks. It was mentioned that she should look at neighboring units to see if they could team up, and she responded that the nearest other units were hours in any direction from her. Pretty common story, right?

And then (this was the cool part), two of our Wing ES staffers who were sitting in the corner got up, walked over to her and handed out their cards saying "Both of us will come out to visit your unit any time to help train your people. Seriously. Call us". I never heard the follow up story, but knowing these two. I'm sure they made good on their word.

My POV as a Wing Staffer and formerly as a CC who ask for help in the past. It is really 50/50. Some Wing ES types always promise but never deliever and some are really good at their word, YMMV is what I am saying.

Another point is reality. If your Squadron does not have a plane and the nearest plane is an hour away. You should focus on GT, UDF and base staff and not MO and MS. 

[Spaceman3750]

In Wing Conference 2012, I was in a session about squadron-level ES training. One CC brought up that she had lots of people ready & willing to get ES ratings, but currently in the unit was qualified to teach and eval/sign-off tasks. It was mentioned that she should look at neighboring units to see if they could team up, and she responded that the nearest other units were hours in any direction from her. Pretty common story, right?

And then (this was the cool part), two of our Wing ES staffers who were sitting in the corner got up, walked over to her and handed out their cards saying "Both of us will come out to visit your unit any time to help train your people. Seriously. Call us". I never heard the follow up story, but knowing these two. I'm sure they made good on their word.

I do the same thing as a group ESO, and have even put together a small-scale GT-exercise for a squadron in a neighboring group who needed help, but nothing irritates me more than driving 2 hours to task 4 members and finding out they can't even tell me 3 signs of heat exhaustion when I show up.

I have no trouble driving long distances, it's a reality of my state, but I do expect you to study before I get there, whether we're just doing fam/prep or we're doing a field exercise.

[Eclipse]

Unfortunately, there are now NO corporate officers at CAP Wing or Region Level. 

While technically true under the new governance, the Wing and Region CC's have been delegated purchase and command authority
over their respective AORs and continue to function in essentially the same way as they always have.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

Another point is reality. If your Squadron does not have a plane and the nearest plane is an hour away. You should focus on GT, UDF and base staff and not MO and MS. 

Except that to progress beyond GBD you need MS.

[Alaric]

Another point is reality. If your Squadron does not have a plane and the nearest plane is an hour away. You should focus on GT, UDF and base staff and not MO and MS. 

Except that to progress beyond GBD you need MS.

And, at least in my experience with some wings the Good Ol'boy network lives at mission base.  Doing much above MSA can sometimes be difficult if your not part of the network.  I'm been fortunate in my last couple of wings.

[JeffDG]

Another point is reality. If your Squadron does not have a plane and the nearest plane is an hour away. You should focus on GT, UDF and base staff and not MO and MS. 

Except that to progress beyond GBD you need MS.

And, at least in my experience with some wings the Good Ol'boy network lives at mission base.  Doing much above MSA can sometimes be difficult if your not part of the network.  I'm been fortunate in my last couple of wings.

Good lord...why would that be a GOB issue (not doubting you, just thinking that those doing that are nuts!)

Staff work is what you do so that folks can do the fun stuff (aircrew, ground teams) in the hopes that someone else will step up and do the staff stuff once in a while so you can go play in the field.  If someone seriously wants to horde the staff jobs, that's more fun time for me!