Squadron Transfer

[Thisguy12345]

Alright i'm in a situation, in my squadron I have been wanting to transfer for some time. reason being I was getting more and more pissed off at the Exec staffs decisions and because there is a lack of just about everything.  the only reason I have stayed so long was because I wanted my chief before I transferred.  (I am a SMSgt)   A few days ago I had my chief review board, in the review board they said things about me that were not true and never have been, they called me a boss and that I believe that its rank not the person that gets the respect, among other things... its actually the opposite with me and I suspect foul play, they also remarked that I had bad customs and courtesies with officers which is not true in the slightest. (people have always said my customs and courtesies were good and that I was respectful) also I was never forewarned about these problems they just suddenly "showed up" in this review board. (this is my first review board with this Exec staff, I have never had any problems or concerns in any other review board) another thing they chose to do is strip me of my rank for a month, (I cant wear my SMSgt insignia until my next review board. they said it wasn't a punishment but a learning experience)  needless to say I did not pass my board.  I have had problems in the past with this exec staff outside of CAP (I knew one of them and he was a jerk and did a lot of stuff that ruined his reputation with a lot of people including myself)  but I held my tongue and just smiled and waved acting like nothing was the matter...  I am done playing that game.  In my mind I have left the squadron and I am so pissed that I cannot go back for even a few minutes, is there anyway to do the squadron transfer without having to stick my nose into the squadron building (I am friends with the Squadron Commander.) could I email him? talk to him in person? just hand in my form A2 or do it through e services with the new squadron commander and begin showing up there? also if did transfer how long could it be until I could begin promoting again.  also could this corrupt exec staff try to stop me? 

Please answer my questions and thank you for listening to my rant. 

A frustrated cadet

P.S. I do not mean to look like I am complaining, I looked at this board and took the things which were true and are actively trying to fix them. I am extremely frustrated because these people have there own ideas of how cadets promote and they are basing the rank system off the air force expectations... not the CAP ones.  I am sorry but I have not been in CAP or the air force for twenty years so therefore I cannot always meet those expectations.  I am feeling cheated and betrayed by my own home squadron, we recently created an honor guard for our squadron and the only reason they have that honor guard is because I got my Color guard up to comp, even though I had 2 months notice, no training, and I was an A1C. I did it for them, and this is how they repay me by stripping me of my rank.  that exec staff member I had problems with?  he caused these same problems in my old home school group with me and my family, he caused problems, people defended him, and then they blamed us because we tried to point out those problems.  Ugh I hate CAP politics

[a2capt]

There's one sticky wicket above all.

A transfer can not be used to avoid disciplinary action. That said, there's more to every story.
If the losing unit command sees this as you see it, you may very well get your wish. If they see it from the un-informed review board side of things.. it may not be so easy.

Suffice to say, if you're saying that you can't wear -any- rank for a month, that's a violation on the amount of demotion allowed. It also has to be documented. Sounds like it may not be. 

The Review Board should be based around the items for discussion on the CAPF 50. All of this trickery and game playing that seems to prevail in many "high speed gung ho hardkewl" units is simply far from the intention of the leadership portion of the cadet program. In fact, it could be argued that those doing that simply do not understand their reason for being there either.

A unit, at -ANY- level, can not add requirements to the promotion conditions. That is a change of regulation, and that has to be submitted up the chain, approved and come from the top down.

CAPR 52-16 has 60+ years of thought behind it. I think they know what they are doing. Some reinvent because they think the know better. That's fine. Start a new program. Others have never even read the thing. Shocking, yes. But true.

There's bigger problems here.

[Eclipse]

Honestly, from 50k feet, your tightly-spaced text would point to that review board being correct, or at least close.

Regardless, there is no reason to ever go back to the unit if you don't want to, though one could also ask why, if the Squadron Commander is "a friend", you don't think
this could be worked out.

The gaining commander initiates the transfer with no action required on the part of the losing commander, assuming you are not on any probationary or disciplinary
status that would be a legitimate block, this also assumes you have no unit property that needs to be returned.

Professional courtesy would dictate that you either send an email, or discuss in person (phone) your intent to transfer, and if the new unit CC is worth his pin,
he'll be asking about the situation at the previous unit.  It's not unheard of for two CC's to decide together that a transfer is not in the best interest of the member,
or CAP, or both.   The new unit CC is under no obligation to accept you if he feels you are bringing baggage that would be disruptive to his unit.

The actual process:

1) Gaining CC initiates the transfer, which is immediate (losing CC has 60 days to disapprove, with cause).
2) Your records need to get to the new unit - the regs say the member, senior or cadet, hand carries them, but they can also be mailed or otherwise transferred.

That's it.

...another thing they chose to do is strip me of my rank for a month, (I cant wear my SMSgt insignia until my next review board. they said it wasn't a punishment but a learning experience)

Yes, this will be a learning experience... for them, as this is not permitted in any fashion.  This would require they demote you, which is not something a cadet review board has the authority to do.
Time to discuss this with your friend, the unit CC, and perhaps involve your parents.

Unless that review board included a Form 50, they have a few other things to worry about as well.

[Storm Chaser]

Let me start by saying that while I understand your frustration, you need to "cool off" your attitude a bit, especially if you're trying to get a transfer approve. Saying things like "I was getting more and more pissed off at the Exec staffs decisions" will NOT help your case, even if you're right. Customs and courtesies include attitude and behavior and, as a cadet senior NCO, you want to act like a professional at all times. That includes your written communication, which in this case is lacking (misspellings, grammar, etc.).

Now to your problem; the unit commander is the approving authority for cadet promotions, achievements and awards (this authority may be delegated to other officers, especially the deputy commander for cadets). While senior cadets may participate in promotion boards and feedback sessions, they have no authority in the promotion process. Even if the commander wasn't part of this evaluation, commanders may approve or disapprove it in accordance with (IAW) CAPR 52-16. They must also ensure cadet progress is evaluated properly.

Promotion Boards, if used, are there to help the commander make a decision on whether cadets are ready or not for the increased responsibilities that come with their promotion. Even if a cadet meets all minimum requirements, commanders may choose to delay such promotion until the cadets are ready. Appropriate feedback must be provided and a follow-up review must be conducted within 60 days.

Now this is where your unit has a (potential) problem. CAPR 52-16 specifically prohibits temporary demotions. That means that they cannot temporarily take away your rank with the purpose of providing you with a "learning experience". A commander may only demote a cadet "in exceptional circumstances" and only "for cause". The commander must also notify the cadet of the demotion in writing and the demotion begins on the date it was approved if there is no appeal. The cadet may appeal the demotion in writing with 30 days of receiving the demotion notice. As you can see, your unit can't just ask you not to wear your rank for a month whether as a punishment or to teach you a lesson. They must follow the process set in CAPR 52-16.

Now, as far as the transfer goes, you can transfer to another unit as long as you're a member in good standing in your current unit. According to CAPR 39-2, a member "may not transfer to preclude an adverse action". That means that if your unit is initiating disciplinary actions against you, you may not transfer to avoid that. That being said, it is the gaining commander who initiates the transfer and, if you already know where you want to go, I would talk to the new commander and explain the situation. Again, watch your attitude as you don't want to convey the wrong message. Once the transfer is initiated by the gaining commander, the losing commander must approve it.

The best course of action is for you to sit down your current commander and explain that it would be in everyone's best interest to allow you to transfer to another unit. Be polite and respectful. Present only the facts and try not to let your feelings cloud your discussion. At the end, a good unit commander is going to do what's best for you and the squadron. Good luck!

[Майор Хаткевич]

If it was me, I'd be at the next meeting, wearing my stripes. Until there's a proper, official notice of me loosing 1, 2, or 3 stripes, no one is going to tell me NOT to wear them. Cadets have no power over cadets. They have a minor leadership authority handed to them by the SM staff, nothing more.

g. Temporary & Discretionary Grades. There are no temporary promotions or demotions,
including temporary or "field" promotions or demotions at encampments and other activities. There
are no discretionary grades. Cadets will wear their earned grade on their uniform at every CAP
activity. The only grades authorized are those shown in CAPVA 52-100.

5-14. Demotions and Terminations. In exceptional circumstances, the unit commander may
demote a CAP cadet for cause, up to a maximum of three steps in the Cadet Program (i.e.: three
achievements, or two achievements and a milestone award).
a. Notification and Effective Date. The unit commander notifies the cadet of the demotion
in writing, forwarding a courtesy copy to the commander at the next echelon. The demotion period
begins the date the unit commander approves the demotion request, ifthere is no appeal.
b. Re-Earning Achievements. The cadet will need to re-earn the demoted achievements and
awards through satisfactory performance over a period of 60 days per achievement or award (For
example, a cadet who had been insubordinate would need to show a willingness to follow directions
and CAP rules). If the cadet's performance does not warrant a one-achievement promotion at the end
of 60 days, the unit commander may initiate termination (see CAPR 35-3).
c. Appeals. The cadet may appeal the demotion decision by writing the commander of the next
echelon, courtesy copied to the unit commander, within 30 days of receiving the demotion notice.
(1) The commander at the next echelon (normally at the group or wing level) will rule on
the cadet's appeal request within 30 days of receiving the appeal request letter. This commander is
the final authority on all cadet demotion actions.
(2) Cadets who appeal a demotion are ineligible to progress in the Cadet Program until
the commander who has the appeals authority rules on the appeal. If the demotion is approved after
an appeal, the cadet will be immediately demoted. If the demotion is overturned after an appeal, the
cadet will be allowed to progress as if no demotion occurred.
(3) In evaluating an appeal, the commander reviews the facts of the situation, whether
demotion was the appropriate punishment and whether the demotion was carried out in accordance with
this regulation.
d. Effect on Ribbons and Awards. The demotion will not affect ribbons worn on the
uniform, just the achievements earned and any grade associated with these achievements. Demoted
cadets retain their milestone awards, unless the awards are revoked as outlined in paragraph 5-15.

[Thisguy12345]

@Storm Chaser,

Thank you for your feedback, my parents are also advising me not to get emotional, and it really helps to here it from someone else.

I also apologize for the misspells and grammar errors and any lack of professionalism that you saw.  I have one question, is being

retained in grade considered a disciplinarian action?

Again thank you for the feedback

[Майор Хаткевич]

If done properly, yes.

[Critical AOA]

If you are indeed friends with the squadron commander, why are you asking advice here rather than chatting with him?

[Eclipse]

I have one question, is being
retained in grade considered a disciplinarian action?

No, those are two different things.

A disciplinary action might cause you to be retained in grade, but then it has to be properly documented as such.

Being retained in grade is not supposed to ever be punitive, especially for cadets.  It happens because your commander deems you
not ready for the assumed additional responsibility.

[Thisguy12345]

@David Vandenbroeck the reason I am not talking to my squadron commander about this is because the Exec staff's parents are the

DCFC and in charge of the parents group. I am trying to plan carefully so I can transfer without problems, and not stir up trouble.

[Eclipse]

The Department of Children and Family Counseling is involved?

[SarDragon]

I think he means Deputy Commander For Cadets.  Same initials.

[Eclipse]

I think he means Deputy Commander For Cadets.  Same initials.

OK, if you're going to turn over all the cards this game won't be fun anymore!

[MacGruff]

I think he means Deputy Commander For Cadets.  Same initials.

OK, if you're going to turn over all the cards this game won't be fun anymore!

Gotta love TLAs. Or, in this case, FLAs!

[mwewing]

Alright i'm in a situation, in my squadron I have been wanting to transfer for some time. reason being I was getting more and more pissed off at the Exec staffs decisions and because there is a lack of just about everything.

I suspect that your feelings were obvious to the cadet leadership, and probably played a role in the decisions of the review board.

A few days ago I had my chief review board, in the review board they said things about me that were not true and never have been, they called me a boss and that I believe that its rank not the person that gets the respect, among other things... its actually the opposite with me and I suspect foul play, they also remarked that I had bad customs and courtesies with officers which is not true in the slightest. (people have always said my customs and courtesies were good and that I was respectful)

If the review board considered false information, you should have brought it to their attention, and corrected their understanding of the circumstances. However, just because their perception of your attitude and behavior is different from yours, doesn't mean the feedback you are getting is untrue. As has been stated to you by others, customs and courtesies are about more than standing at attention or saluting an officer. Customs and Courtesies are an outward display of the respect we show one another, and include our attitude, and willingness to function as a team. It is necessary to function as a member of the team, even when you disagree with decisions made by your leadership. It sounds like your attitude has not been one of cooperation. However, if you suspect foul play, you should discuss the feedback and outcome of the review board with your commander. I would caution you to present only facts - not emotion - and make sure your evidence is sound before making allegations.

also I was never forewarned about these problems they just suddenly "showed up" in this review board. (this is my first review board with this Exec staff, I have never had any problems or concerns in any other review board)

I have had problems in the past with this exec staff outside of CAP (I knew one of them and he was a jerk and did a lot of stuff that ruined his reputation with a lot of people including myself)

As a general rule, I don't think anything discussed in an evaluation or performance feedback session should be new. This is certainly how I operate at work when I evaluate my team. However, the frequency of cadet promotions does make that more difficult if review boards are done for each achievement. If the attitude and behaviors that were brought up have been recent developments, it may not have been possible to adequately address them prior to the review board. Also, the lack of constructive criticism in your previous boards has little relevance to your recent experience. The board is considering your preparedness for the new grade, which comes in large part from your current performance. Lastly, your external relationship with members of the cadet leadership should not be considered. Factual evidence of this should be shared with your commander, but keep in mind that just because you don't get along outside CAP doesn't automatically mean the cadet leadership isn't raising valid points during your review board.

As others have stated, striping you of all rank is not within regulations. This should certainly be discussed with the commander. If the commander is in fact officially demoting you, it should be to c/SSgt and you should be entitled to the appeal process that has been described to you. If your commander is unwilling to bring this matter in line with regulations, you and your parents should contact the next higher echelon for assistance.

To be honest, I think there is a lot more to this situation than you have shared. I think you got some feedback during your review board that was tough to hear, probably even tougher when coming from people you don't especially like. I think there is a disconnect between your expectations and those of your cadet leadership, and a breakdown in communication that has contributed to your hurt feelings. I find it very unlikely that a commander you consider a friend would allow "foul play" to influence their decision to retain you in grade, or demote you in accordance with policy. I think there might be a reason you are sharing your thoughts on this forum instead of discussing them with your commander. To be honest, I would not promote a cadet to Chief that didn't know that these matters should be discussed through the CoC instead of being aired on a public forum. You may be able to transfer, so long as your not avoiding disciplinary action, but I think you are going to continue to have difficulty relating to leaders who hold different opinions and priorities unless you find a way to address the issues that affected you at your current unit.

You should definitely be talking about this with your commander and your parents. They can help you make the best possible decision and grow from this experience. Best of luck whatever you chose.

[Danger]

My advice would be to find out exactly why they're doing what they're doing. Sort it all out before transferring, and be able to explain what happened, why it happened, and how it was resolved, so you can explain exactly why you are transferring. Also, if you hold a staff position, train in someone so that if you do in fact transfer, you can leave and have someone take over what you did.

[Critical AOA]

@David Vandenbroeck the reason I am not talking to my squadron commander about this is because the Exec staff's parents are the

DCFC and in charge of the parents group. I am trying to plan carefully so I can transfer without problems, and not stir up trouble.

That commander is there for a reason.  You should start there.  If you are on good terms with him and respect him, then show it by talking honestly with him.  Otherwise, you are not being honest about the situation.