L2K Paper test destruction?

[Майор Хаткевич]

A couple of questions actually for Testing Officers.

CAPR 50-4 is vague to begin with, so I'm wondering a few things.

I have not found any supplements on the wing site, so I believe the destruction of tests is fully on the Testing Officer.

Is there a preferred way to destroy the tests?

Then we get to the log, where this has to be recorded.

The one that is required of us is so simple the Management-major-that-wasn't in me goes crazy.

When I say "inventory complete", where is the said list of inventory? How do I know if anything is missing? If I say "tests destroyed", what tests? Some? All? New? old? AE? L2L? etc.

Then the third question. We are finally at the point where all of our cadets are on the L2L books. So I can destroy the olde Leadership texts. BUT! What if someone transfers in, still on the old program, and they still have some time until the program sundown. Will national be able to send us out any of the old tests?

Phew, I think that's it for now.

[lordmonar]

Remove it from the test control log....and then sherd.

[Майор Хаткевич]

So you're saying make the notation of "CAPT-XX Destroyed"?

Should I do a line item for each teach test?

What of a general inventory of what is there? No requirement for the test log what so ever.

[arajca]

You are correct - the Testing Officer is responsible for the test destruction.

The methods I've used are shredding (cross cut - makes confetti) and burning. I have not heard of a preferred method.

Our log lists each test by number, so when they are counted, the actual on-hand is recorded.

When a test is destroyed, the log for that test number is annotated with "Test destroyed on XX XXX XX by Lt Smith by burning." IF you haven't uniquely numbered each test, use a memo for record with something like "The following tests were destroyed by Lt Smith by burning" and list the tests by achievement and how many, i.e. Curry Leadership L2K, 3.

I believe National can send out old tests if necessary, but if you're worried about it, keep one copy of each test.

[Майор Хаткевич]

So sounds like I should just fire up a separate excel file with quantities and numbers of all of our tests. I was specifically told to keep "inventory" off the testing log, as ours is set up online, and wing has access to it for SUIs and wants it the way they want it.

[lordmonar]

So you're saying make the notation of "CAPT-XX Destroyed"?

Should I do a line item for each teach test?

What of a general inventory of what is there? No requirement for the test log what so ever.

You can do that...just line thru it and say it was destroyed...I do that....and redo the inventory sheet at the begining of the year.

[Eclipse]

In your specific case, what you have is all you need, however the format is up to you. Your predecessor was less ... involved.
Bottom line, you can't keep two sets of books, discuss changes needs with Group and then make them.

[Майор Хаткевич]

In your specific case, what you have is all you need, however the format is up to you. Your predecessor was less ... involved.
Bottom line, you can't keep two sets of books, discuss changes needs with Group and then make them.

I've already discussed the log with higher powers. That's going to stay in the format they mandate.

What I'm talking about is the fact that CAPR 50-4 doesn't actually provide for a real accounting of inventory.

I'd simply count all the tests, throw them on an Excel spread sheet, and keep that sheet with the tests. Come next inventory, a copy of that sheet can be used to mark off everything. At least then I'd know if something is missing.

[coudano]

They are controlled but they aren't classified or anything.
So any shredder is probably sufficient.
We recently burned a bunch.

We had our test copies labeled, as such
L2K-Ch1-01 (copy 1)
L2K-Ch1-02 (copy 2)
DIM-Md1-01 (copy 1)
DIM-Md2-02 (copy 2)

Then each one that is destroyed is lined through, with a destruction date and initials of the person who destroyed it.
There is also an 'action log'  "12/12/12 All copies of L2K Chapters 1-7 destroyed (14 total items).  Obsolete.  djr"


*we keep the masters in a separate binder and label them differently as well
L2K-Master   (booklet of chapter tests master copy)
L2L-BMA-Master   (billy mitchell leadership master copy)



Our test control log is a google docs spreadsheet.
And we print a copy off and keep it in the test box with the tests.

[EMT-83]

50-4 is not subject to interpretation as to test inventory or destruction.

Test inventory is outlined in Section 1-4. The format specified in Attachment 2 must be followed. Per Note 3 on Attachment 2, each test is assigned a control number.

Test destruction is outlined in Section 1-6.

If you're keeping tests off the test inventory log, you are in violation of the regulation.

If you have need for test which has been destroyed, you can order a replacement, as per Section 2-2.

[Майор Хаткевич]

50-4 is not subject to interpretation as to test inventory or destruction.

The reg is as vague as possible...

Test inventory is outlined in Section 1-4. The format specified in Attachment 2 must be followed. Per Note 3 on Attachment 2, each test is assigned a control number.

1-4. Test Inventory Log.
Each TO will create a test inventory log for his/her unit. The inventory log may be on paper or electronic. Format for the test inventory log will be in accordance with Attachment 2 of this regulation. All transactions associated with hard-copy test materials will be entered onto the Test inventory log by the TO/assistant. This includes, but is not limited to, receipt, transfer, destruction and inventory of test materials, as well as administration of tests. Test inventory logs will be retained in accordance with CAP Regulation (CAPR) 10-2, Files Maintenance and Records Disposition.

Attachment 2 doesn't show/list/explain/demonstrate an actual inventory.

Definition of INVENTORY1 a    : an itemized list of current assets: as  (1)   : a catalog of the property of an individual or estate  (2)   : a list of goods on hand 

Only that of actions/receipt/destruction, but not a list of quantities and tests on hand.

Test destruction is outlined in Section 1-6.

True, I was wondering what the general practice for most was.

1-6. Test Inventory.
The TO conducts a test materials inventory at least every 180 days and whenever the TO or assistant(s) changes.

a. The TO opens the storage container and identifies each test in the container. Each test must be on the Test inventory log. If a test on file is NOT on the Test inventory log, annotate the examination number on the log and destroy the test booklet. (Tests will be shredded or burned.) If a test is on the test inventory log but not on file, refer to paragraph 3-1 for test compromise.

b. When the inventory is completed, the TO annotates and signs the test inventory log on the next available line (see attachment 2).

What CAPR 50-4 doesn't address is adding a list of all tests on the log at the beginning of the year. Those tests aren't received, they are already there, so there are technically no entries. It should say then that an inventory has to be done at the beginning of the year, and all tests must be listed. There is no such requirement on the attachment.

If you're keeping tests off the test inventory log, you are in violation of the regulation.

Agreed. But again 50-4 doesn't mention how it would get there year to year.

If you have need for test which has been destroyed, you can order a replacement, as per Section 2-2.

Yep. My question was based on the tests that are about to be phased out in 2013.

[a2capt]

You've hung onto them this long.. what's a few more months now?


I did thin the box out, got rid of 4 of 5 copies of each of them. I have one cadet left on paper, for Phase II. I have convinced the Phase III and IV ones to get off the paper stuff with a calendar showing them that you have to be "here" (now) in order to finish by October, and that's if you are high speed Johnny on the Spot. Otherwise, forget it.

[Майор Хаткевич]

You've hung onto them this long.. what's a few more months now?


I did thin the box out, got rid of 4 of 5 copies of each of them. I have one cadet left on paper, for Phase II. I have convinced the Phase III and IV ones to get off the paper stuff with a calendar showing them that you have to be "here" (now) in order to finish by October, and that's if you are high speed Johnny on the Spot. Otherwise, forget it.

I suppose. We'll probably pair it down to 1 copy of each. Then keep them separate and just leave them in the storage cabinet on testing nights.

[SarDragon]

You've hung onto them this long.. what's a few more months now?


I did thin the box out, got rid of 4 of 5 copies of each of them. I have one cadet left on paper, for Phase II. I have convinced the Phase III and IV ones to get off the paper stuff with a calendar showing them that you have to be "here" (now) in order to finish by October, and that's if you are high speed Johnny on the Spot. Otherwise, forget it.

I suppose. We'll probably pair pare it down to 1 copy of each. Then keep them separate and just leave them in the storage cabinet on testing nights.

FTFY. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

Goodwin's law.

[Brad]

Attachment 2 doesn't show/list/explain/demonstrate an actual inventory.

I just looked at it, it looks like it does to me. I see a transaction ID, the date, the test it is reference to or the control number if you prefer, the date the test was given, the date it was put back in the cabinet, the date it was destroyed, and a sign-off column. It even specifies how to assign the control number. Plus at the top of the example it specifically says "SAMPLE TEST INVENTORY LOG" (emphasis mine)

[Майор Хаткевич]

They can call this an inventory all they want. It's only a log. There is no actual list of all tests on file.

[Brad]

They can call this an inventory all they want. It's only a log. There is no actual list of all tests on file.

If you update that log whenever a new test is received it will become that. All you have to do is count the entries from the last inventory and that is your current inventory. If you receive like 10 at a time, note that in the log. Simple counting of entries is all it is.

[Майор Хаткевич]

We're supposed to start a new log every year. That would make legitimate inventory hard to do.

[PHall]

We're supposed to start a new log every year. That would make legitimate inventory hard to do.

Yeah, start a new log. But aren't you supposed to keep the old log for a couple of years?
There's your inventory for you.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Quite a disorganized way of keeping on top of that stuff...

[PHall]

You're using one log sheet a year. You need to do an inventory every 90 days if not more often.
So each sheet has at least four inventories on it.
And if you've kept the past three inventory sheets you have records for the last three years.
The main thing is that you need to complete and document that inventory every 90 days.
Personally. I inventoried the testing materials in my squadron every month.
Made it easy to make sure I had the current materials before I needed them.

[SarDragon]

I used to do a quick check every time I got into the test box. The tests and folders had a big red diagonal line across the edge, so missing and out of place items were really easy to see.

[EMT-83]

The regulation was recently changed. Inventory needs to be done every 180 days, not 90. Electronic logs are now okay, test storage requirements were changed a little, and  TCO appointment letters are no longer required.

Overall, the process became easier. I honestly don't understand the complaining.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Attachment 2 doesn't show a listed inventory. Just a line that says inventory done.

[Brad]

Attachment 2 doesn't show a listed inventory. Just a line that says inventory done.

Correct. Your inventory would consist of going through the logs, looking at all the receipts without an associated destruction, then making sure the logs match up with the physical inventory on hand. Once done and you're satisfied that the log and physical tests agree, you make the entry "inventory done."

[RogueLeader]

You're using one log sheet a year. You need to do an inventory every 90 days if not more often.
So each sheet has at least four inventories on it.
And if you've kept the past three inventory sheets you have records for the last three years.
The main thing is that you need to complete and document that inventory every 90 days.
Personally. I inventoried the testing materials in my squadron every month.
Made it easy to make sure I had the current materials before I needed them.

Latest revision only requires an inventory every 180 days.

Opps. Didn't see it already posted.

[PHall]

You're using one log sheet a year. You need to do an inventory every 90 days if not more often.
So each sheet has at least four inventories on it.
And if you've kept the past three inventory sheets you have records for the last three years.
The main thing is that you need to complete and document that inventory every 90 days.
Personally. I inventoried the testing materials in my squadron every month.
Made it easy to make sure I had the current materials before I needed them.

Latest revision only requires an inventory every 180 days.

Opps. Didn't see it already posted.

Rougue, start pushing, we'll tell you when you're done!

[a2capt]

As well, on an inventory, if you retire a test copy because it's ragged .. marked up, etc. .. then mark on the inventory that it's been shredded/whatevered and replaced on this day.

Now if you find that you still have the tests from the previous curriculum in there.. You know it's time for a purge..

[SarDragon]

Attachment 2 doesn't show a listed inventory. Just a line that says inventory done.

Why are you making this so hard? We've told you how to make this work, and you keep evading the answers. The reg isn't the greatest. Your interpretation is too rigid. Loosen up and work with it.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Attachment 2 doesn't show a listed inventory. Just a line that says inventory done.

Why are you making this so hard? We've told you how to make this work, and you keep evading the answers. The reg isn't the greatest. Your interpretation is too rigid. Loosen up and work with it.

Brad's post is the first that actually cleared it up for me. It's a terrible system for what it is worth, and certainly doesn't work with an online/digital set up. I get it, but it's going to take some work on my part to fix it up. Your going to run into an issue when tests were received in 2006, and are trying to do this inventory in 2013.

[a2capt]

Well, yes- There is that but also you make it a point that you are -fixing- an issue, or potential issue. You're improving the situation. What's done is done.

The inventory perhaps is not much more significant than the sheet in the fast food restroom behind the door that the employee signs when the place is checked. For all they know that is all the employee does when they walk in there is make a log entry. But without a camera with playback, that's all you can go by.  "No, really, someone must have just done that right after I left!!!"

The testing inventory log is a guide to whoever, what is in that box, and a record of any issues. No issues, nothing to report, Right? Just the entry that says "5 copies" (are here) and if they pick up that folder, there are 5 copies in it. If they look at them, they should find nothing on any of them that could be a marking signifying the answer. If a cadet marks on a test booklet I ask them to bring it to me, show me what they did and then I have them make more of the same marks on it. If I can have all four answered "marked" the same way, then i'm good. If it's any more than that .. I'll dump the thing, and make a new one. Usually just the affected page. Slide the other into the pocket shredder I have, after tearing it diagonally into a few stripes.

.. and then walk around the room and put random bits of it in one of 10 different trashcans, or walk outside and toss it into the roll off bin, and the dumpster. Of course, having first made the entry on the inventory log.

Turn on change tracking on the document even if you want, then someone can see an audit trail, since that also tells when/if change tracking was dis/enabled.

[RogueLeader]

You're using one log sheet a year. You need to do an inventory every 90 days if not more often.
So each sheet has at least four inventories on it.
And if you've kept the past three inventory sheets you have records for the last three years.
The main thing is that you need to complete and document that inventory every 90 days.
Personally. I inventoried the testing materials in my squadron every month.
Made it easy to make sure I had the current materials before I needed them.

Latest revision only requires an inventory every 180 days.

Opps. Didn't see it already posted.

Rougue, start pushing, we'll tell you when you're done!

Sorry, cat 4 disability on shoulder.  I have started situps instead.   

[PHall]

You're using one log sheet a year. You need to do an inventory every 90 days if not more often.
So each sheet has at least four inventories on it.
And if you've kept the past three inventory sheets you have records for the last three years.
The main thing is that you need to complete and document that inventory every 90 days.
Personally. I inventoried the testing materials in my squadron every month.
Made it easy to make sure I had the current materials before I needed them.

Latest revision only requires an inventory every 180 days.

Opps. Didn't see it already posted.

Rougue, start pushing, we'll tell you when you're done!

Sorry, cat 4 disability on shoulder.  I have started situps instead.   

It's only one shoulder, right?    So get cracking with the one hand push-ups!