Uniform Changes

[WheelsUp]

Have been in CAP for 1 year - after 7 years of Army - and have noticed that CAP has more uniform changes and updates than any organization I've ever seen. What gives?

Seems to me that CAP needs to concentrate on the MISSION, not the uniform.

Anyone out there with a perspective on this?

[SarDragon]

Oh, boy...  got the Nomex and .

[Major Carrales]

Have been in CAP for 1 year - after 7 years of Army - and have noticed that CAP has more uniform changes and updates than any organization I've ever seen. What gives?

Seems to me that CAP needs to concentrate on the MISSION, not the uniform.

Anyone out there with a perspective on this?

A lot of talk is spoken about uniforms in CAP.  Some try to read it to see if they can uncover clues about USAF's reationship to CAP. Others like to suggest changes and badges.  Some people think we shouldn't have a uniform at all.  Yet, other think we have too many combinations.

All in all, they are all correct at some levels and totally off on others.

My position is simple, pick a unifrom and do my best to maintain my appearance as a CAP officer.  Sometimes I falter...others I'm spot on.

My advice...stay out of the uniform threads  ("uniform..." "threads...") , lest you get hooked on joining those conversations.

[DNall]

Oh, boy...  got the Nomex and .

It does get excessive, there's few reasons for that.
The first is we don't do so well with retention so leadership is responsive to things that placate the field. In the military you'd complain, no one would listen or care, you'd get over it & move on.

Second is our leadership tends to be good hearted & intentioned folks w/o a lot of military-style leadersjip experience, so they tend to act rashly w/o thinking things thru all the way. Then reality kicks in, they try to compromise, that doesn't work & more changes come down. Sometimes that's fast, sometimes it takes a few years.

Third is the logistics of the situation. They don't have to pay for the stuff, we do. So, there are no wear tests & they can make lots of changes at minimal cost to the org.

And, then there the relationship issue. Leadership does what they can with what they control to move to & fro in the relationship w/ the AF in order to get more credibility w/ the outside world & more money & mission from the AF, but then they push back when it comes with aco[censored]ability. Basically they just want to have their cake & eat it to. Uniforms just happens to be one of the fairly obvious methods, but it goes on with everything.

Finally there's a communication issue. The AF isn't allowed by congress to tell us what to do or even what they think unless they have direct control over the item in question. That leads to a lot of problems when no one knows where the line is or can talk about it directly. It's real screwed up, just like anything congress designs.

[WheelsUp]

  I'm of the opinion that there are too many uniforms/combinations, and I've got to ask the $64,000 question here: Why do our folks wear Camo uniforms while doing SAR work?

  Common sense would dictate that something a bit more visible (to the object of the search as well as other searchers) would be appropriate.

  I'm here as a volunteer, and am not willing to spend hundreds of bucks on a complete new military wardrobe that changes at the drop of a hat.

  My solution: A CAP uniform committee sets the uniforms - no more than 3 types (flight, BDU and business...along with golf shirts..) and no more updates for 5 years.

  I stand by my earlier statement that the Mission (and training) comes first. 

[MIKE]

  I'm of the opinion that there are too many uniforms/combinations, and I've got to ask the $64,000 question here: Why do our folks wear Camo uniforms while doing SAR work?

Oh Noes... Not this again... We've covered this a bunch of times before.  Try a search.

[arajca]

  I'm of the opinion that there are too many uniforms/combinations, and I've got to ask the $64,000 question here: Why do our folks wear Camo uniforms while doing SAR work?

'cause we get them from the DoD for free. (until lately)

Common sense would dictate that something a bit more visible (to the object of the search as well as other searchers) would be appropriate.

Common Sense! Common Sense!!! Common sense had no place in CAP - or so it seems at times.

I'm here as a volunteer, and am not willing to spend hundreds of bucks on a complete new military wardrobe that changes at the drop of a hat.

The AF (blues/bdu's) uniforms you bought several years ago are still basically the same.

My solution: A CAP uniform committee sets the uniforms - no more than 3 types (flight, BDU and business...along with golf shirts..) and no more updates for 5 years.

  I stand by my earlier statement that the Mission (and training) comes first. 

That's been suggested here several times already.

[Hawk200]

The AF (blues/bdu's) uniforms you bought several years ago are still basically the same.

Which as a really good reason to stay in them. A lot of folks went out and bought the "latest and greatest", when they could have stuck with what they had.

I have considered Blue BDU's for the simple fact that there aren't any specifically required outerwear for them. Just haven't gotten the money to do it yet, and it really isn't a priority right now.

[DNall]

I know there's temporary issues with DRMO right now, but anybody ever check into the availability of surplus BBDUs? We've gotten CG blue flightsuits (royal & dark blue) in the past for members, and both they & the navy use BBDUs. Just curious.

[O-Rex]

Once in a while the services go through uniform transition periods: I remember the transition on the Army from Khaki Class-B's to what they wear now: from fatigues to BDU's: now it's BDU's to ACU's and shortly Greens to Blues.

Even USAF blue went though some subtle color-changes, not to mention the McPeak years.

CAP's recent uniform upheaval only concerns Corporate Uniforms, affecting only a segment of the population who has/prefers to wear them.  There are various "conspiracy theories" regarding the "why" of our Corporate Uniforms, but regardless, 2006 saw the advent of a somewhat homogenous look that doesn't offend USAF patrons.

I believe that the "wave" has passed: note that there are no upcoming fashion changes in the March NB agenda.

Why woodland camo? Because once upon a time, USAF had them in spades.  I don't think that terrorism is the reason behind the DRMO restriction: perhaps it's that Woodland BDU production has dwindled, they are getting scarce, and CAP may rank somewhere behind Botswana or Chechnya in the surplus pecking order..

Perhaps this too shall pass. . . .

Blue BDU's- Coast Guard uniforms are different: shirt is two-pocket and not four.  I like BBDU's, they are urban-friendly, and not as alarming as Woodland camo when the local constabulary approached you at 3 AM to find out what you are doing walking around neighborhoods or marinas with the big radio-antenna-thing in your hand.

The lanyard badge-holder with Picture I.D. also helps (just renewed and got Pic-I.D. v2.0: seems the cleaned up the CAP shield a bit.)

[MIKE]

Blue BDU's- Coast Guard uniforms are different: shirt is two-pocket and not four.  I like BBDU's, they are urban-friendly, and not as alarming as Woodland camo when the local constabulary approached you at 3 AM to find out what you are doing walking around neighborhoods or marinas with the big radio-antenna-thing in your hand.

Word on the street is that untucked ODUs are coming, may even add the pockets.

[O-Rex]

Word on the street is that untucked ODUs are coming, may even add the pockets.

They can buy them from Vanguard: only your first-born for shipping, and guaranteed to arrive before retirment 

[Hawk200]

I know there's temporary issues with DRMO right now, but anybody ever check into the availability of surplus BBDUs? We've gotten CG blue flightsuits (royal & dark blue) in the past for members, and both they & the navy use BBDUs. Just curious.

I know for a fact that the Coastie blue shirt is a tuckin BDU top design, but it has no lower pockets. Technically, I guess it wouldn't be close enough in appearance to be worn as a BBDU. The pants, however, are just standard pattern BDU pants. They would be fine.

I didn't know the Navy was using BBDU's. I know of the coveralls, but they're phasing those out. They're producing a blue/grey digital camo BDU. It's amusing to me, but the Navy has stated outright that the camo pattern is meant to hide dirt and grime, not the person. Which is nice when they're straightforward about it.

[Hawk200]

Word on the street is that untucked ODUs are coming, may even add the pockets.

They can buy them from Vanguard: only your first-born for shipping, and guaranteed to arrive before retirment 

Would depend on how close you are to retirement.... :angel:

[RiverAux]

I know for a fact that the Coastie blue shirt is a tuckin BDU top design, but it has no lower pockets. Technically, I guess it wouldn't be close enough in appearance to be worn as a BBDU. The pants, however, are just standard pattern BDU pants. They would be fine.

Only if you don't mind having anything that you put in the cargo pockets of the pants almost immediately fall out.  The CG decided to use tiny little velcro tabs instead of buttons and they just do not work if you actually put anything in them. 

[Hawk200]

Only if you don't mind having anything that you put in the cargo pockets of the pants almost immediately fall out.  The CG decided to use tiny little velcro tabs instead of buttons and they just do not work if you actually put anything in them. 

Good to know. I've looked at the designs, but I wouldn't have known that little detail unless I had worn them, or actually handled a set of them.

Which means that even surplus BDU pants from the Coast Guard probably wouldn't even work for us.

[ddelaney103]

Only if you don't mind having anything that you put in the cargo pockets of the pants almost immediately fall out.  The CG decided to use tiny little velcro tabs instead of buttons and they just do not work if you actually put anything in them.

Good to know. I've looked at the designs, but I wouldn't have known that little detail unless I had worn them, or actually handled a set of them.

Which means that even surplus BDU pants from the Coast Guard probably wouldn't even work for us.

Sure they would - you just have to add bigger pieces of "hook and loop."  It's still cheaper than "off the rack" pants.

[Hawk200]

Sure they would - you just have to add bigger pieces of "hook and loop."  It's still cheaper than "off the rack" pants.

Point taken. The big question would be: "Can we get them?"

[MIKE]

Sure they would - you just have to add bigger pieces of "hook and loop."  It's still cheaper than "off the rack" pants.

Point taken. The big question would be: "Can we get them?"

I can.    I dunno about you guys though. 

[DNall]

Point taken. The big question would be: "Can we get them?"

I can.    I dunno about you guys though. 

Point being free from DRMO. Which is going to be covered under the same letter about BDUs as is covers all utility & combat uniforms. When we get that cleared up though I would imagine the answer is yes. The problem though is the CG is pretty dang small so you get a few items here & there all over the DLA system. As I said, we got a few blue flt suits at one point, but I honestly hadn't been to DRMO in over 10 years, or even looked online for that matter (hadn't had a .gov address in a while). Worth someone taking a look around the system when this issue gets cleared up though.

[davedove]

I didn't know the Navy was using BBDU's. I know of the coveralls, but they're phasing those out. They're producing a blue/grey digital camo BDU. It's amusing to me, but the Navy has stated outright that the camo pattern is meant to hide dirt and grime, not the person. Which is nice when they're straightforward about it.

Which doesn't always work with the new digital camo uniforms.  An Army enlisted man told me that the new uniforms do not hide the occasional pen leak, unlike the BDU's where a new black spot just tends to blend into the camouflage.