I know some of you have seen this

[Hawk200]

So I went there and read the article and immediately regretted doing so as I felt my IQ drop another point and a half.

Nah, you only get the IQ drop if you believe it....

[ZigZag911]

DNall,

As I recall, the AF does have control over the general rank.   I think it was  shortly after 9/11 either the Sec AF or Chief of staff made the decision to make the Natl CC a major general as it was only a one star prior to that. That was based on the perceived duties that CAP was becoming involved in and a 2 star would be commensurate with those responsibilities.

I just checked 35-5, general officer promotion requires the "concurrence of the Chief of Staff USAF" (with the NB election result)

[SAR-EMT1]

T'was not to long ago some people on this very forum (and in the Portal) suggested making CAP Region Commander's Brig Generals.

National CC- Major General
Vice-CC/Region Commander- Brig Generals
Wing- Colonel
Group- Lt Col
Squadron: Maj or Capt
Flight- ? 1st Lt?

Did that make those people evil?  I think not...

You are correct, this is a moot point being agendistically played into a MAJOR SIGN of EVIL and SINISTER INTENT.

Please...

I would actually support something like this. It would bring us more in line with RealMilitary, and if the Sq. CC's are Majors you have alot more room for staff officers in "appropriate grades"  as opposed to 2nd/ 1st Lt CC's with Capt/ Maj/Lt Col.  Staff Officers... JMHO

[DNall]

The problem with that is our Wings can be as small as a couple hundred folks & a 2-4 planes. That's Sq size in the real mil. You put a whole region together & you're still talking about Gp to Wg sized elements as far as people, resources, etc (total responsibility level), so that's till just a LtCol to Col level position.

What makes more sense is calling our local units flights instead of Sqs; small geographic Gps of 3-5 local units become Sqs... then some states can be Gps & some can be Wgs based on the size/resources/membership, responsibility... And regions can be realigned as Wgs over several smaller states.... you'd end up with 12-15 wings, retain your state based unit (for varriables in state law) commanded by a corporate officer. That's the reality of what we actually have on the books, not to mention how much smaller we are in practice. You can't just toss grade around based on symantics.

[flyguy06]

I visited the Rhode Island WIng website some years ago. They three airplanes in the whole wing. Or at least they did a few years ago

[NoNamesPlease]

Oh...and how the heck is CAP a Ponzi Scheme?

That *is* the question, Major.

The argument that this "PhD" makes (I think his PhD is in Divinity Studies.....which is nice, but has no bearing on almost anything involving this matter except showing what an egomaniac the writer is) is ludricious.

For example, if I took out a one year subscription to the New York Times, then threw out each delivery after the first week when I find that it's not to my liking, is the New York Times guilty of running a 'Ponzi Scheme' when they list the number of subscribers they have to their advertisers?

Hardly...yet this writer pontificates this very point, somehow showing an organized criminal scheme to defraud Congress.

That's a bit of stretch, don't ya think? 

I think the editor of this blog-rag needs to get back on his tranquilizers.

[DNall]

The scheme mentioned involves defauding people by charging a high entry fee on the promise of eventual grand returns, when the main business of the venture is attracting peopel to pay the entry fees rather than the supposed business that they are buying into. Clearly fruad.

CAP charges $10 more in the first year then subsequent years, hardly a massive initiation fee, and that pays for books & junk (your great start CD). I think they actually take a hit on first year dues versus renewals. CAP brings in about 4mil from member dues, near as I can figure w/o looking up the numbers, and that may be high. We take in 25mil give or take from the AF, plus what gets spent on actual missions, and plus what they spend on planes, radios, etc. All told, that's about 40mil this year. Then you add the money that comes from states... You're talking about member dues coming in at 6-8% of total annual operating funds. It's important money cause it comes w/o strings on where it needs to be spent, but it's hardly the prime concern of the organization, and very far from defrauding members.

Now the gentleman goes on to say that these inaccurate numbers are used to defraud congress... again a flat lie. Congress is paying for a mission & doesn't care if we have 50k or 500k members. The number of planes, radios, etc are fixed by the square mile, not the number of members. I personally believe NHQ can and should be leaned up & streamlined, but that doesn't meant they don't work hard, and every one of those position one by one is justified to AF & AF makes a determination if it is neccessary in comparison to all the other needs of the AF. They're pretty smart the AF, & they got reservists all the way down to the ground level keeping an eye on things. I'm pretty sure no one is pulling anything over on them. If you have any doubt of that, you should talk to Chief Chiafos or one of the past CAP-USAF CCs or Reg LOs that are running around.

We all know the number CAP uses nationally is far from the number fo ACTIVE members, but categorizing all inactive members as having quit & just riding out the year till they drop from the role is a flat lie. Even if it weren't a lie, it wouldn't matter statistically cause they'd still be calculated in that month in the add/loss column.

You can search around & see me in other threads talking about an idea for units to report attendance on eServices so active versus inactive can be tracked, resources correctly allocated, and troubled units identified early on so help can be sent in before it's too late. From a mgmt perspective, there is great value to knowing who is actively participating at what point, but the gentleman is blending reality with twisted fantasy & calling it fraud. That just ain't so. Any logical person should be able to see that & call it for what it is. And in doing so you should be abel to dismiss most everything else that ever comes out of his mouth.

It's sad really. I hate to give up on people, I really believe you can help most anyone if they're willing to be a better person, but this guy persists in his personal anger over his misunderstanding the rules to taking it out on CAP as a whole. We have our problems, no doubt about it, but we're working for the better of the country while this guy is out of touch with reality & dragging down the interests of the country as expressed by Congress.

[ddelaney103]

Defraud?  That's a stretch.  However, there is something a little deceitful in the presentation of our numbers.

The stock text we plop on the bottom of every PAO press release invariably mentions the "more than 57,000 members nationwide" line.  However, we all know that has little to do with any of the end strength we can apply towards any missions.

The last time I waded into the ops database (some time ago) it listed about 1.5k mission rated pilots.  Even the most generous estimates wouldn't give us more than 10k troops to throw at ES.  We have no desire to clear our rolls of deadweight because of the income from our "ghost members" as well as the numbers we like to throw at Congress and the public.

[SAR-EMT1]

I say we simply petition Pylon to add 'Discussion's regarding NOTF are not allowed' to the TOS. 

Or better yet... add 'NOTF' and 'News of the Force' to the word list in the forum's censor-bot! 

Now that's the kind of sneaky I like. Question is what phrase should auto insert when someone posts such prases? 

Well, I just read Harry Potter  to my 6 year old cousin tonight so Ill go with
" Site-which-shall-not-be-named "

[DogCollar]

The argument that this "PhD" makes (I think his PhD is in Divinity Studies.....which is nice, but has no bearing on almost anything involving this matter except showing what an egomaniac the writer is) is ludricious.
/quote]

Just an FYI!  There really is no such thing as a PhD in Divinity Studies.  It might be a PhD in Theology, Biblical Studies, Religious History, Ethics, etc...

[JohnKachenmeister]

Adding to the list of inconsistencies in the NOTF article, was the comment that TP refered to the Natl CV as a "Dyke" and for that reason sought her removal.

TP supported her with great vigor for the appointment to Natl. CV, even though there was opposition that was based on her membership on the board of directors of an advocacy group pushing for homosexual persons to be permitted to join the military.

[Major_Chuck]

The argument that this "PhD" makes (I think his PhD is in Divinity Studies.....which is nice, but has no bearing on almost anything involving this matter except showing what an egomaniac the writer is) is ludricious.
/quote]

Just an FYI!  There really is no such thing as a PhD in Divinity Studies.  It might be a PhD in Theology, Biblical Studies, Religious History, Ethics, etc...

Wait a minute!  According to the Universal Life Church of Modesto California I can be a Doctor of Divinity if I send them $35.

[NoNamesPlease]

The argument that this "PhD" makes (I think his PhD is in Divinity Studies.....which is nice, but has no bearing on almost anything involving this matter except showing what an egomaniac the writer is) is ludricious.
/quote]

Just an FYI!  There really is no such thing as a PhD in Divinity Studies.  It might be a PhD in Theology, Biblical Studies, Religious History, Ethics, etc...

Wait a minute!  According to the Universal Life Church of Modesto California I can be a Doctor of Divinity if I send them $35.

Well, there you go. Sounds like a scholar and deep-thinker if ever there was one. Is this the 'think tank' behind NOTF?

"I'd like one PhD and two MBA's.....can you break a hundred?"

[Pylon]

The argument that this "PhD" makes (I think his PhD is in Divinity Studies.....which is nice, but has no bearing on almost anything involving this matter except showing what an egomaniac the writer is) is ludricious.
/quote]

Just an FYI!  There really is no such thing as a PhD in Divinity Studies.  It might be a PhD in Theology, Biblical Studies, Religious History, Ethics, etc...

Wait a minute!  According to the Universal Life Church of Modesto California I can be a Doctor of Divinity if I send them $35.

You're right.  There is such as thing as Doctor of Divinity.  That's a D.D.  A number of (real, accredited) institutions (aka: seminaries and the like) award D.D.s

What was said was that it's not a PhD in Divinity.  PhD = Doctor of Philosophy (in ________).  Divinity degrees are not PhDs, they're "D.D."s.  That's all the was being said.

[Eclipse]

Its exactly what the guy wants - 751 views and 50+ replies.

It keeps this nonsense in play.

Every notice, too, how the manifesto guys type in single space HUGE paragraphs?

[Lancer]

From the daily dustbin...

Letters to the Force
    "All of the dedicated and clear-headed members of the Civil Air Patrol are looking forward to the day when Gen. Courter will take the helm away from Tony Pineda, who has plagued CAP with his self-aggrandizing agenda.
    "Pineda has made no secret of his plan to replace Courter when he believes he is in "safe" company. This plan has been in the works for the better part of a year and I hope with all of the fire coming at him now from all directions his plan has been stymied for good.
    "There are many CAP ostriches who still profess that all of the accusations levied against Pineda are false. It would be one heck of a conspiracy from all parts of the country to try to pull this off and the truth is that there is no conspiracy. The facts are simple -- Pineda is not a good man and he is a deplorable leader.
    "There is a blog out there trying to get all bloggers to refrain from mentioning News of the Force "NOTF" by name. They want the moderators to censor any reference made to it. This is just how Pineda works.  Censor any opposing views, because there is no way to debate them with facts.      "I know Pineda is guilty of much, if not all, of what he is being accused of -- and so does he.  Whoever is supporting censorship to protect Pineda is not doing a service to CAP, no matter what they think.
    " It's past time to get rid of this dead weight and move on with the important and worthwhile functions of
what can be a great organization. I am holding on to my membership hoping that day arrives very soon.
    "Signed, Still a Member."

<rant>

I had to chuckle a bit when I read this, since I'm the one who 'proposed' the idea of filtering NOTF in jest.  Namely because they called the forum a blog and because whoever wrote this thinks our CC has somehow communicated to us that we should all 'stick our fingers in our ears' when there are 'opposing views'.

No, sir, it's not the opposing views we don't want to listen to, it's the delivery vehicle that we're tired of.

...and since I'm in a NOTF 'fun poking mood', I was also amused at the statement made at the bottom of this cut and pasted article http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewsoftheForce/message/4893

(Ed. Note: If you are on a Navy or Marine Corps base, you can try accessing WND through our Web site at http://newsoftheforce.org .)

As if somehow clicking links from his website will magically allow you to view websites blocked by military internet filters. If the military should block any website, it's News of the Force.

</rant>

[baronet68]

OK, I'm a little late on this one, but thought I'd point out that...

b) The AF has no authority over CAP general officer grades. That's how it moved to Maj Gen & Vice to Brig Gen in the first place, and the second place. AF does get pissed when that grade is abused by CAP, but they have no authority to stop it.

...the above statement isn't completely true.

1.3.1. CAP Grade. CAP uses military style grade for its membership at the discretion and approval of the Air Force. CAP officer or noncommissioned officer grade does not confer commissioned or noncommissioned officer status. CAP personnel have no authority over members of the armed forces.  CAP members who are active, reserve, and retired members of the armed forces will be treated according to their CAP status when acting in a CAP capacity. The Air Force has authority over the CAP grade structure.

Emphasis added.

[Psicorp]

<rant>

I had to chuckle a bit when I read this, since I'm the one who 'proposed' the idea of filtering NOTF in jest.  Namely because they called the forum a blog and because whoever wrote this thinks our CC has somehow communicated to us that we should all 'stick our fingers in our ears' when there are 'opposing views'.

No, sir, it's not the opposing views we don't want to listen to, it's the delivery vehicle that we're tired of.
</rant>

You mean our CC didn't send out the memo I'm now holding and decrypted with my CAP Secret CC Memo Decoder Ring telling us to "pay no attention to the man behind the NOTF curtain"?  


My biggest gripe is that if there is actual physical evidence and witnesses of civil or criminal wrongdoing, then take it through the proper channels.  I know that's a bit of a shock, especially when it means credit may not be given for the "breaking news", but accusations from an "unnamed source" or accusations heard through the grapevine and transmitted via CW through a string between two paper cups mean NOTHING.  

As for "opposing views", the key word there is "views" i.e. opinions.  I have absolutely no problem listening/reading "opposing views" but simply putting ten jig saw pieces together from ten different puzzles doesn't a Picaso make.   If you have an opinion, a true original thought, then stand up and say it.

[DNall]

quote AFI10-2701
1.3.1. CAP Grade. CAP uses military style grade for its membership at the discretion and approval of the Air Force.

Okay, that does seem to indicate AF has authority, but it's directed at AF personnel & explaining we do have permission to wear that.

My biggest gripe is that if there is actual physical evidence and witnesses of civil or criminal wrongdoing, then take it through the proper channels.  I know that's a bit of a shock, especially when it means credit may not be given for the "breaking news", but accusations from an "unnamed source" or accusations heard through the grapevine and transmitted via CW through a string between two paper cups mean NOTHING.