Should CAP Even Consider Encouraging Healthy Habits for Seniors?

[Eclipse]

Even if we take them at face value, won't most of those guys be the dead weight you mentioned earlier?

No, these are active pilots we need to keep.

If most of the wings only get between 25 and 50% member participation, maybe the overweight pilots who leave weren't doing much anyway. If they were the hot shot multi-hat wearing gung ho members, well, we were looking for pilots when they joined too. There will always be pilots who join for the flying. If the expectation was clear that we need pilots who won't have a cardiac episode in the plane, so much the better. All the overweight pilots out there, they're dreading the flight physical after they get those blood pressure meds, because a special issuance medical isn't a slam dunk. And it gets dicier each time. To me, if we want to solidify the pilot supply, we need to be at least raising the question.

You don't just wake up on a Monday and suddenly "decide" this is a risk.

You look at historical data - times when missions went undone, or members were injured or killed due specifically because of a weight or health
related issue. The only data on this is in the '78's, and the '78's won't get you where this thread leads.

[BigShu]

Millions were spent adding +10% to the existing USAF chart?  A chart that is in excess of 20 years old?

The USAF has not maintained the same program during that time, but ours remained static.   They also moved to "fat-boy" programs
and BMI tests, and only recently went back to standards which are so tight that 80% of CAP members could never get near them,
and a fair number of active and reservists struggle to maintain.

Making the number doesn't guarantee ability or skill, but it increases the odds of success.

Making the number, in a CAP context, means nothing but making the number, because for starters, the chart isn't based on actual CAP ops, it isn't even our chart.

The millions have been spent by the AF, trying to find the right approach to ensuring fit airmen. As you state, it's a moving target, and that mirrors society at large. The point is, whatever program is in place is there because there is belief that weight control is very important to military personel. Not so much with volunteer organizations. Personally, I think there would be more interest in CAP if the common example the public sees wasn't either an easy 50# overweight, or 80 years old (never mind the beard and ponytail). What is the 1st year attrition rate, anyway?

[SarDragon]

Oh, boy.

Gotta agree with Bob on this one. The chart is way out of date, and doesn't really do the job it was intended to do. I seriously doubt that millions were spent, particularly by the DoD. These have been common numbers since I joined the Navy, over 40 years ago.

According to the chart, I'm within standards for the AF. According to my doctor, because of my body makeup, I'm overweight. I agree. I'm working on fixing that.

As for the pilot thing, most of the pilots in my unit are in their 50s, or older, and have broadened a bit as they have aged. These overweight pilots do most of our flying. We had a slow year, and and only flew about 250 hours. The year before we had over 300. If all these heavy guys leave,  I'm guessing the airplane would leave, too, because there wouldn't be enough pilots left to fly it the required number of hours.

[BigShu]

Even if we take them at face value, won't most of those guys be the dead weight you mentioned earlier?

No, these are active pilots we need to keep.

If most of the wings only get between 25 and 50% member participation, maybe the overweight pilots who leave weren't doing much anyway. If they were the hot shot multi-hat wearing gung ho members, well, we were looking for pilots when they joined too. There will always be pilots who join for the flying. If the expectation was clear that we need pilots who won't have a cardiac episode in the plane, so much the better. All the overweight pilots out there, they're dreading the flight physical after they get those blood pressure meds, because a special issuance medical isn't a slam dunk. And it gets dicier each time. To me, if we want to solidify the pilot supply, we need to be at least raising the question.

You don't just wake up on a Monday and suddenly "decide" this is a risk.

You look at historical data - times when missions went undone, or members were injured or killed due specifically because of a weight or health
related issue. The only data on this is in the '78's, and the '78's won't get you where this thread leads.

Heaven forbid we take an open minded look at the subject without waiting for missions to go undone, or members to croak due to excess weight. When all is said and done, we can only speak for ourselves. Then someone can tally the answers and start moving in the indicated direction. I think a healthy weight awareness program that includes volutary weight reduction information is a splendid idea.

[Eclipse]

I think a healthy weight awareness program that includes voluntary weight reduction information is a splendid idea.

We have that today.

http://www.nutrition.gov/

Done.

[RiverAux]

Millions were spent adding +10% to the existing USAF chart?  A chart that is in excess of 20 years old?

It just so happens that if you're too heavy to wear the uniform based on this 20 year old chart that you'd fall in, or very close to, the definition of "obese" used under the BMI system. 

In other words, if can't wear the AF-style uniform due to weight issues, you've got some SERIOUS weight issues.

[Eclipse]

The issue is >not< who's chart says you're fit or not, the issue is the relevance in a CAP context.

In that context it is only relevant from a mission performance perspective.

[RNOfficer]

1.  Can or should CAP have a role in helping larger seniors improve their health by losing weight and engaging in appropriate exercise?

Providing educational information on how CAP members can improve their health is one of the things Health Service Officer do.

Members (and the public) are bombarded with bad health information often endorsed by half-witted celebrities.


For reliable, evidence-based health information online:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAP_HEALTH_SERVICES/        the CAP Health Services Board

http://www.mayoclinic.com/       The Mayo Clinic

http://www.nih.gov/       The National Institute of Health

http://www.jointcommission.org/assets/1/18/patient_101.pdf     The Joint Commission

or your physician or a Nurse/ Practitioner

[Eclipse]

Providing educational information on how CAP members can improve their health is one of the things Health Service Officer do.

Has NHQ endorsed this "advice"?

Including accepting liability for its use?

HSOs have less medically-related contact time the most people spend in the waiting room of their GP, and that time does >not< include an exam.  Beyond common sense, HSOs should not be offering "advice".

[bflynn]

Providing educational information on how CAP members can improve their health is one of the things Health Service Officer do.

Members (and the public) are bombarded with bad health information often endorsed by half-witted celebrities.

So, why would the HSO advice be good?  Is CAP going to engage a panel of doctors to come up with the recommendations for members so we're not also bombarded with bad health information from CAP as well?  What is the cost-benefit analysis on that, how do we know whether or not CAP gets our money's worth out of it?  What is the goal and how do you know when you've accomplished it?

In the end, the only relevant health information for an individual can come from a doctor that has personally examined them.  Something that is good advice for one person may be deadly to someone else.

[Flying Pig]

If a person is truly interested, they will find it.  If a CAP member REALLY wants to get involved in fitness within CAP, I have an idea.......get your Cadet Programs rating, get HEAVILY involved in cadet programs and push yourself to meet the same standards.  When I was DCC, I did the CPFT every month with my cadets.   I had just left the Marines so I pretty much beat every one of them at everything  THat is the place for it.  What was interesting to see though was that as daily civilian life took over, the ability to maintain that intense level of fitness that I had enjoyed as a full time infantryman actually started to fall away.  I got the point where I saw my mile times slipping, my sit ups getting a few less every couple of months.  It actually bothered me to the point where I was going to go back into the Reserves just as a way to motivate myself to stay in top shape.  Living a life of fitness is just that.... it s a lifestyle. 

In my opinion, SM's dont need to be bothered with it nor does CAP as an organization need to waste time on the SM side with it.

[RNOfficer]

Providing educational information on how CAP members can improve their health is one of the things Health Service Officer do.

Has NHQ endorsed this "advice"?

Including accepting liability for its use?

HSOs have less medically-related contact time the most people spend in the waiting room of their GP, and that time does >not< include an exam.  Beyond common sense, HSOs should not be offering "advice".

Usually I don't bother responding to trolls but this is matter of importance.

"Advice" is not the same as "educational information".

Advice is directed at a particular person's particular health problems. Education gives general information that may be applicable to a person's problems.

Telling a person that he should reduce salt intake because it is contributing to his hypertension = advice.

Explaining that limiting salt intake is one of the easiest ways to reduce hypertension = education.

It's a simple distinction, so even you should understand it.

[SARDOC]

Usually I don't bother responding to trolls but this is matter of importance.

Hahaha...RNOfficer just called Eclipse a Troll.   Wow...Way off base.

[johnnyb47]

Holy toledo, this thread is still going?
Wow.


Ned,
this thread inspired me. I have taken some of the thoughts and advice from here (as well as a few other threads with similar topics) and have started on my way to getting in shape.
So thanks for bringing it up.

-Me

[PHall]

Usually I don't bother responding to trolls but this is matter of importance.

Hahaha...RNOfficer just called Eclipse a Troll.   Wow...Way off base.

How exactly is it off base? Please enlighten us.

[SARDOC]

How exactly is it off base? Please enlighten us.

While on occasion I have disagreed with Eclipse on issues, I don't believe he is a troll.   He is a well informed member of our organization and a frequent poster to this board.  A troll is someone who makes trouble just for the sake of making trouble.  I don't believe that is the case here at all.  I think his post was well intentioned based on his comments on similar threads throughout these boards.

[Eclipse]

How exactly is it off base? Please enlighten us.

While on occasion I have disagreed with Eclipse on issues, I don't believe he is a troll.   He is a well informed member of our organization and a frequent poster to this board.  A troll is someone who makes trouble just for the sake of making trouble.  I don't believe that is the case here at all.  I think his post was well intentioned based on his comments on similar threads throughout these boards.

Danke - as usual when people can't make an argument they revert to personal insults.

Hall?  Love you man!

[a2capt]

Holy toledo, this thread is still going?

It's showing a bit of unraveling, but otherwise still in stitch..

[RNOfficer]

How exactly is it off base? Please enlighten us.

While on occasion I have disagreed with Eclipse on issues, I don't believe he is a troll.   He is a well informed member of our organization and a frequent poster to this board.  A troll is someone who makes trouble just for the sake of making trouble.  I don't believe that is the case here at all.  I think his post was well intentioned based on his comments on similar threads throughout these boards.

Danke - as usual when people can't make an argument they revert to personal insults.

Hall?  Love you man!

And when people can't understand an argument, they believe they are being personally insulted.

[Eclipse]

And when people can't understand an argument, they believe they are being personally insulted.

Usually I don't bother responding to trolls but this is matter of importance.

It's a simple distinction, so even you should understand it.

Which one of the above did I misunderstand?