Should CAP Even Consider Encouraging Healthy Habits for Seniors?

[RNOfficer]

And when people can't understand an argument, they believe they are being personally insulted.

Usually I don't bother responding to trolls but this is matter of importance.

It's a simple distinction, so even you should understand it.

Which one of the above did I misunderstand?

Sadly, you don't understand what you don't understand.

Here's what you did not understand:

"Advice" is not the same as "educational information".

Advice is directed at a particular person's particular health problems. Education gives general information that may be applicable to a person's problems.

Telling a person that he should reduce salt intake because it is contributing to his hypertension = advice.

Explaining that limiting salt intake is one of the easiest ways to reduce hypertension = education.

[Eclipse]

So then you're just going to ignore the whole calling me a troll and insinuating I am too simple to understand the issue then, and then
do it again?

I understand exactly what the issue is - HSO's who feel frustrated that their professional skills have no meaningful role to play in CAP, and who want to try and involve themselves in preventative medicine, and NHQ which (to date) disagrees with that idea.  Members do not need or want unsolicited advice regarding health issues that CAP has no stake in.

CAP does not provide health insurance, so there is no cost benefit.

CAP cannot show any evidence that members' health, on the average or the mean, is any different then the overall demographic of its membership,
nor that it has ever affected mission performance at anything higher then statistical zero.

In regards to this thread, trying to make a distinction between "advice" and "education" is just legalese.

[RogueLeader]

So then you're just going to ignore the whole calling me a troll and insinuating I am too simple to understand the issue then?

While I normally agree with you, lately, your tone has been less humanish and more towards the troll side.  If you were somebody that has not established themselves, many would be outwardly a troll.

[bflynn]

"Advice" is not the same as "educational information".

Advice is directed at a particular person's particular health problems. Education gives general information that may be applicable to a person's problems.

Telling a person that he should reduce salt intake because it is contributing to his hypertension = advice.

Explaining that limiting salt intake is one of the easiest ways to reduce hypertension = education.

So - I think Eclipse gets that - he is a smart man.  He, like most of us here, probably have heard this advice before.

Do you understand that he has been asking you and anyone else to justify why CAP should care?   What happens if CAP doesn't do what you propose?

Do you also understand you responded in a less than respectful way and implied that he was too simple to understand what you failed to communciate effectively?  The responsibility with making sure that a message is understood lies with the sender and analysis of any problem always should grow in increasingly larger cocentric circles centered around your own desk.  If you believe he didn't understand your message, then your job is to repeat, not berate.

[PA Guy]

Siigh.

In an attempt, probably and exercise in futility, to bring this thread somewhat back on topic.  CAPR 160-1 sect. C clearly outlines what the duties and expectations of a HSO are.  The issue isn't whether you like it or not. It is a CAPR and we are bound to follow it afterall we don't get to pick and choose which regs we support and don't support. And we don't get to choose which programs/members we will support.  I personally think the DDR program has been the largest waste of time and money to come along in yrs but as a leader I support it. You don't like HSOs and their duties as outlined in CAPR 160-1 change the reg don't characterize HSOs as useless baggage and a drain on your program. We all bring something to CAP and no single member is worth more than the other.

HSOs clearly have a role to play in CAP in those areas outlined in CAPR 160-1 and one of those areas is promoting a healthy lifestyle.

[Eclipse]

The reg says what an HSO can do, it doesn't mandate a unit have one.

DDR, on the other hand, is a required component of a a units operations as well as encampments and a few other similar larger-scale activities.

[PA Guy]

The reg says what an HSO can do, it doesn't mandate a unit have one.

No, and you don't have to have many other positions so what is your point? Your antipathy toward HSOs and the HSO program has been clearly demonstrated in mult. threads. Are you letting your personal bias determine how things are done in your AOR? Are you saying that you would refuse to apporve an HSO slot in your AOR?

So, back to the thread. Yes, HSOs have a role in encouraging a healthy lifestyle for senior members.

[Eclipse]

Are you saying that you would refuse to approve an HSO slot in your AOR?

Refuse to approve one? No, if a unit CC felt the need to check a box on their roster, so be it, that's their call.
At the unit staff / operations level I have never had a need which would have been filled by an HSO on the basis of their professional skills.
I have, however, had any number of issues where HSOs felt the need to insinuate themselves into situations where they actually had no
particular need to be involved, try to push the line on emergency care, "regs be darned!", or request advanced grade and other
PD credit despite having no track record of CAP service, experience, or knowledge.

At the large activity level, I, like so many other commanders, have had to ride the edge between wanting to provide the best, safest environment
for my cadets and other participants, and the very real and specific regulations regarding what HSOs are, and are not, allowed to do.  Were they not on staff, 911 would have, and did serve us just fine, and now that NHQ has made it clear that the primary allowed job of most HSOs is, the most part,  verboten, the need for them on staff of activities which are otherwise in urban areas with modern, responsive, emergency medical care becomes even more questionable.  As a parent, I want a mobile trauma unit on hot-standby at all times, as an activity or unit commander in CAP, I have
the fiduciary responsibility to follow the regs and protect the corporation as well.  In the case of HSOs, this is not always a clear, simple task.

That doesn't mean I don't sympathize with their situation. The medical professionals, lawyers, and clergy, that we regularly solicit for their
specific skills (or who come to us for the same reason), find themselves with little-to-nothing that they can use their skillset for.  But that doesn't mean we should be looking to create make-work for them any more then we would do the same for law enforcement, plumbers, or trapeze artists. 

The simple fact of the matter is that while we absolutely need more educated professionals in CAP, we just don't need them for their specific skills,
but for their managerial and related general knowledge and attitude.

And we also need more plumbers and trapeze artists.

[RNOfficer]

I understand exactly what the issue is - HSO's who feel frustrated that their professional skills have no meaningful role to play in CAP, and who want to try and involve themselves in preventative medicine, and NHQ which (to date) disagrees with that idea. 

In regards to this thread, trying to make a distinction between "advice" and "education" is just legalese.

You are completely mistaken in your belief that preventive medicine by HSOs is not supported by National HQ. I suggest that you take the time to read CAPR 160-1 rather than repeatedly writing about something you apparently know nothing about.

Physical  fitness,  health  promotion,  environmental  protection,    and  skill  and  knowledge  in  providing emergency care are readiness issues.  Training at every level must reflect these issues.  Since CAP is an integral part of the Air Force family, a program reflecting the foregoing is necessary.  CAP health services' overarching program goal is to assist our entire membership to become and/or remain optimally healthy and fit, and to be skilled in providing
basic emergency care.

I have carefully explained the difference between "advice" and "education". I'm not going to encourage your trollish behavior by explaining again.

[Critical AOA]

I am fine with being provided with information regarding general wellbeing, health and fitness as long as it is presented in a group format to the group as a whole.  If a commander believes that the safety program could be expanded to safety & health with periodic presentations on the latter in lieu of or in addition to that week's or month's safety presentation, then so be it.

However, if someone were to specifically address me in regards to what he believes about my personal fitness level, that would be different.  But in today's world with so many different types of media warning about the health risks of being obese, smoking, etc. and extolling the benefits of losing weight and exercising, I personally see very little added benefit that a few minutes talk at a CAP meeting will add.

The only area in which I do see value is in regards to flight physiology, fatigue, stress and other related health aspects of human factors as that is not something that you hear or see much about unless you seek it out.   However my slightly larger than preferred girth is my business.  I hear enough about it from the misses. 

[RiverAux]

Physical  fitness,  health  promotion,  environmental  protection,    and  skill  and  knowledge  in  providing emergency care are readiness issues.  Training at every level must reflect these issues.  Since CAP is an integral part of the Air Force family, a program reflecting the foregoing is necessary.  CAP health services' overarching program goal is to assist our entire membership to become and/or remain optimally healthy and fit, and to be skilled in providing
basic emergency care.

I guess that reg quote actually answers the question that Ned originally posed that started this thread.  CAP already made the decision to promote healthy lifestyles among its members. 

[PA Guy]

 :clap: :clap: :clap:

[RNOfficer]

I am fine with being provided with information regarding general wellbeing, health and fitness as long as it is presented in a group format to the group as a whole. 

However, if someone were to specifically address me in regards to what he believes about my personal fitness level, that would be different.

But in today's world with so many different types of media warning about the health risks of being obese, smoking, etc. and extolling the benefits of losing weight and exercising, I personally see very little added benefit that a few minutes talk at a CAP meeting will add.

The former is health education which is what HSOs do. The latter would require diagnosis, which is what HSOs do not do.

However, I believe that you are mistaken in your statement that members have enough exposure through the media. Much of what appears in the media is simply not correct, much of the rest is too preliminary for laypersons to utilize.

Did you see this?  The members of my squadron did. A 12% reduction in cancers, (other than prostate cancer)? That's a big deal.

A large clinical trial of nearly 15,000 older male doctors followed for more
than a decade found that those taking a daily multivitamin experienced 8 percent
fewer cancers than the subjects taking dummy pills.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/health/daily-multivitamin-may-reduce-cancer-ri\
sk-clinical-trial-finds.html

Multivitamin use had no effect on the incidence of prostate cancer, which was
the most common cancer diagnosed in the study participants. When researchers
looked at the effect of vitamin use on all other cancers, they found a 12
percent reduction in occurrence.

[CAP4117]

What if certain members of your squadron have medical conditions or are on medications that preclude them from taking multi-vitamins? These are conversations they should be having with their doctors.

EDIT: Also, it's interesting that you say that much of the media is incorrect, and then cite a NY Times article. Do you want to be the one telling people in your squadron which media advice to take and which to ignore? I don't - that is the job of their physician.

[PA Guy]

What if certain members of your squadron have medical conditions or are on medications that preclude them from taking multi-vitamins? These are conversations they should be having with their doctors.

EDIT: Also, it's interesting that you say that much of the media is incorrect, and then cite a NY Times article. Do you want to be the one telling people in your squadron which media advice to take and which to ignore? I don't - that is the job of their physician.

The HSOs job is only to make you aware of the information. What if anything you decide to do with it is up to you.  No competent HSO is going to suggest you change your medication regimen withour first consulting the health care provider that prescribded the meds to you.

The NYT article was discussing the original reasearch. They were not saying it was their research. It wasn't just some online article advocating coffee enemas or dancing in the moonlight nude.

So at worst an HSO presenting this has done what?  Make a group of seniors aware of some new research that they may want to discuss with their health care provider on their next visit? No one is telling you to do anything only providing information that you can do with as you please.

[CAP4117]

Fair enough, as long as it's really presented that way. Maybe I misinterpreted, but the poster didn't really specify how it was presented to the squadron.
I'm all for HSOs, promoting healthy lifestyles, etc. I would even be in favor of an optional senior member PT program connected with some type of award (as others here have proposed). I appreciate RNOfficer's distinction between advice and education, but it's important to remember that that line can become pretty blurry, depending on how the members decide to use the material and how litigious they decide to be when something goes wrong.

[RNOfficer]

What if certain members of your squadron have medical conditions or are on medications that preclude them from taking multi-vitamins? These are conversations they should be having with their doctors.

EDIT: Also, it's interesting that you say that much of the media is incorrect, and then cite a NY Times article. Do you want to be the one telling people in your squadron which media advice to take and which to ignore? I don't - that is the job of their physician.

A responsible HSO always closes a discussion with "this in only general information; you should consult your health provider for specific health information"

The NY Times is media of course but it's not media that most people read and it's authoritative.

Finally as others have pointed out, it references the research so the reader can view it himself.

You can take it from me though: 15,000 subjects, 10 years, double-blind study, within the limitation cited (only males in study, subjects were health conscious to begin with, few smokers), this is BIG SCIENCE.

[bflynn]

Fair enough, as long as it's really presented that way. Maybe I misinterpreted, but the poster didn't really specify how it was presented to the squadron.
I'm all for HSOs, promoting healthy lifestyles, etc. I would even be in favor of an optional senior member PT program connected with some type of award (as others here have proposed). I appreciate RNOfficer's distinction between advice and education, but it's important to remember that that line can become pretty blurry, depending on how the members decide to use the material and how litigious they decide to be when something goes wrong.

I don't know why - but this sparked a semi serious thought -

As long as it's voluntary, non-intrusive and CAP doesn't discriminate against overweight people, then it's fine.  But what kind of activity does that leave as permissible?