The Spaatz Award - is it worth it?

[SarDragon]

How I love statistics!

87% of statistics are made up on the spot.

And 43.7% of them are at least partly incorrect.

[JeffDG]

You know, I could ask this same question about the GRW - is it worth it?

The question I pose in response to this and the original question, what do you gain by not getting it?

Two weeks of pay from work (RSC and NSC) and with your family.

[JeffDG]

How I love statistics!

87% of statistics are made up on the spot.

And 43.7% of them are at least partly incorrect.

14% of people know that!

[RogueLeader]

How I love statistics!

87% of statistics are made up on the spot.

And 43.7% of them are at least partly incorrect.

14% of people know that!

12% care.

[crisptheyounger]

To the OP,

"The road of life twists and turns and no two directions are ever the same. Yet our lessons come from the journey, not the destination."
- Don Williams, Jr.

That is how I personally view my time in CAP and my goal of earning the Spaatz award. As a C/Lt Col with a little over 5 years in the program, I have done practically everything I wanted to do in CAP, with the exception of one activity. Even now, I am eligible to attend that activity without getting the Spaatz. So, what's the point outside of having already caused myself stress over studying for the exams and now pushing myself in intense workouts to finally earn the award (Passed everything but the Physical Fitness test on my 1st attempt)? To me, it's about completing the journey.

However, if I was turning 21 tomorrow rather than in early 2013, I would be a somewhat unsettled over not being able to earn the Spaatz award, but I would never regret going for it. Through it, I have developed lasting friendships. I was able to go to Cadet Officer School, Hong Kong on International Air Cadet Exchange, and Washington, D.C. for a week during Civic Leadership Academy. I was able to serve on my wing's Cadet Advisory Council as recorder and later chair. Now, I am the region chair and serving on the National Cadet Advisory Council. This summer, I was Cadet Commander for an encampment. None of this would have happened if I had not stuck with the program.

I do not think I would be the person I am today if I was not going for the Spaatz award. I do not think high school would have turned out as well as it did if I had not being going for it. I do not think college would be turning out as well as it has been if I was not going for the Spaatz. If you want more specific examples on any of this, feel free to PM me.

I take it from your user name that you are a C/CMSgt. That said, most of what I listed above was from after I earned the Mitchell award. While it is not something everyone is able to earn, the Spaatz award is definitely something to go for. While you might not be able to earn, as other as mentioned how life can get in the way, you will learn and grow a lot just by continuing to promote towards earning the award. My advice would be to go for it.

[C/CMSgt]

To the OP,

"The road of life twists and turns and no two directions are ever the same. Yet our lessons come from the journey, not the destination."
- Don Williams, Jr.

That is how I personally view my time in CAP and my goal of earning the Spaatz award. As a C/Lt Col with a little over 5 years in the program, I have done practically everything I wanted to do in CAP, with the exception of one activity. Even now, I am eligible to attend that activity without getting the Spaatz. So, what's the point outside of having already caused myself stress over studying for the exams and now pushing myself in intense workouts to finally earn the award (Passed everything but the Physical Fitness test on my 1st attempt)? To me, it's about completing the journey.

However, if I was turning 21 tomorrow rather than in early 2013, I would be a somewhat unsettled over not being able to earn the Spaatz award, but I would never regret going for it. Through it, I have developed lasting friendships. I was able to go to Cadet Officer School, Hong Kong on International Air Cadet Exchange, and Washington, D.C. for a week during Civic Leadership Academy. I was able to serve on my wing's Cadet Advisory Council as recorder and later chair. Now, I am the region chair and serving on the National Cadet Advisory Council. This summer, I was Cadet Commander for an encampment. None of this would have happened if I had not stuck with the program.

I do not think I would be the person I am today if I was not going for the Spaatz award. I do not think high school would have turned out as well as it did if I had not being going for it. I do not think college would be turning out as well as it has been if I was not going for the Spaatz. If you want more specific examples on any of this, feel free to PM me.

I take it from your user name that you are a C/CMSgt. That said, most of what I listed above was from after I earned the Mitchell award. While it is not something everyone is able to earn, the Spaatz award is definitely something to go for. While you might not be able to earn, as other as mentioned how life can get in the way, you will learn and grow a lot just by continuing to promote towards earning the award. My advice would be to go for it.

I actually recently promoted to C/2d Lt. I should probably change my username... Anyways, awesome. Thank you for the insight, everyone! I really want to get my Spaatz now. All I have to do is convince my parental unit...

[sandman]

How I love statistics!

87% of statistics are made up on the spot.

And 43.7% of them are at least partly incorrect.

14% of people know that!

12% care.

(looks up z table in the back of the book...was the z greater than z critical value?)

So, we fail to reject the null hypothesis in favor of the alternate?

[jimmydeanno]

To the OP,

"The road of life twists and turns and no two directions are ever the same. Yet our lessons come from the journey, not the destination."
- Don Williams, Jr.

That is how I personally view my time in CAP and my goal of earning the Spaatz award. As a C/Lt Col with a little over 5 years in the program, I have done practically everything I wanted to do in CAP, with the exception of one activity. Even now, I am eligible to attend that activity without getting the Spaatz. So, what's the point outside of having already caused myself stress over studying for the exams and now pushing myself in intense workouts to finally earn the award (Passed everything but the Physical Fitness test on my 1st attempt)? To me, it's about completing the journey.

However, if I was turning 21 tomorrow rather than in early 2013, I would be a somewhat unsettled over not being able to earn the Spaatz award, but I would never regret going for it. Through it, I have developed lasting friendships. I was able to go to Cadet Officer School, Hong Kong on International Air Cadet Exchange, and Washington, D.C. for a week during Civic Leadership Academy. I was able to serve on my wing's Cadet Advisory Council as recorder and later chair. Now, I am the region chair and serving on the National Cadet Advisory Council. This summer, I was Cadet Commander for an encampment. None of this would have happened if I had not stuck with the program.

I do not think I would be the person I am today if I was not going for the Spaatz award. I do not think high school would have turned out as well as it did if I had not being going for it. I do not think college would be turning out as well as it has been if I was not going for the Spaatz. If you want more specific examples on any of this, feel free to PM me.

I take it from your user name that you are a C/CMSgt. That said, most of what I listed above was from after I earned the Mitchell award. While it is not something everyone is able to earn, the Spaatz award is definitely something to go for. While you might not be able to earn, as other as mentioned how life can get in the way, you will learn and grow a lot just by continuing to promote towards earning the award. My advice would be to go for it.

I actually recently promoted to C/2d Lt. I should probably change my username... Anyways, awesome. Thank you for the insight, everyone! I really want to get my Spaatz now. All I have to do is convince my parental unit...

Just remind them that one of the things that you learned in CAP is following through on your commitments to the end and that it's not about jumping ship once you get the tangible benefits.

[crisptheyounger]

To the OP,

"The road of life twists and turns and no two directions are ever the same. Yet our lessons come from the journey, not the destination."
- Don Williams, Jr.

That is how I personally view my time in CAP and my goal of earning the Spaatz award. As a C/Lt Col with a little over 5 years in the program, I have done practically everything I wanted to do in CAP, with the exception of one activity. Even now, I am eligible to attend that activity without getting the Spaatz. So, what's the point outside of having already caused myself stress over studying for the exams and now pushing myself in intense workouts to finally earn the award (Passed everything but the Physical Fitness test on my 1st attempt)? To me, it's about completing the journey.

However, if I was turning 21 tomorrow rather than in early 2013, I would be a somewhat unsettled over not being able to earn the Spaatz award, but I would never regret going for it. Through it, I have developed lasting friendships. I was able to go to Cadet Officer School, Hong Kong on International Air Cadet Exchange, and Washington, D.C. for a week during Civic Leadership Academy. I was able to serve on my wing's Cadet Advisory Council as recorder and later chair. Now, I am the region chair and serving on the National Cadet Advisory Council. This summer, I was Cadet Commander for an encampment. None of this would have happened if I had not stuck with the program.

I do not think I would be the person I am today if I was not going for the Spaatz award. I do not think high school would have turned out as well as it did if I had not being going for it. I do not think college would be turning out as well as it has been if I was not going for the Spaatz. If you want more specific examples on any of this, feel free to PM me.

I take it from your user name that you are a C/CMSgt. That said, most of what I listed above was from after I earned the Mitchell award. While it is not something everyone is able to earn, the Spaatz award is definitely something to go for. While you might not be able to earn, as other as mentioned how life can get in the way, you will learn and grow a lot just by continuing to promote towards earning the award. My advice would be to go for it.

I actually recently promoted to C/2d Lt. I should probably change my username... Anyways, awesome. Thank you for the insight, everyone! I really want to get my Spaatz now. All I have to do is convince my parental unit...

Well then, congratulations! And good luck!

[DBlair]

To the OP,

"The road of life twists and turns and no two directions are ever the same. Yet our lessons come from the journey, not the destination."
- Don Williams, Jr.

That is how I personally view my time in CAP and my goal of earning the Spaatz award. As a C/Lt Col with a little over 5 years in the program, I have done practically everything I wanted to do in CAP, with the exception of one activity. Even now, I am eligible to attend that activity without getting the Spaatz. So, what's the point outside of having already caused myself stress over studying for the exams and now pushing myself in intense workouts to finally earn the award (Passed everything but the Physical Fitness test on my 1st attempt)? To me, it's about completing the journey.

However, if I was turning 21 tomorrow rather than in early 2013, I would be a somewhat unsettled over not being able to earn the Spaatz award, but I would never regret going for it. Through it, I have developed lasting friendships. I was able to go to Cadet Officer School, Hong Kong on International Air Cadet Exchange, and Washington, D.C. for a week during Civic Leadership Academy. I was able to serve on my wing's Cadet Advisory Council as recorder and later chair. Now, I am the region chair and serving on the National Cadet Advisory Council. This summer, I was Cadet Commander for an encampment. None of this would have happened if I had not stuck with the program.

I do not think I would be the person I am today if I was not going for the Spaatz award. I do not think high school would have turned out as well as it did if I had not being going for it. I do not think college would be turning out as well as it has been if I was not going for the Spaatz. If you want more specific examples on any of this, feel free to PM me.

I take it from your user name that you are a C/CMSgt. That said, most of what I listed above was from after I earned the Mitchell award. While it is not something everyone is able to earn, the Spaatz award is definitely something to go for. While you might not be able to earn, as other as mentioned how life can get in the way, you will learn and grow a lot just by continuing to promote towards earning the award. My advice would be to go for it.

Your CAP involvement sounds a lot like mine as a Cadet. You make a great point that in merely striving for the Spaatz, the process/journey itself allows for personal development that may prove useful throughout life, and it is not so much that the Spaatz Award (specifically) yields automatic benefits to any notable extent. That said, just as I too became very comfortable as a C/Lt Col, don't neglect at least testing for the Spaatz, etc.

[Tim Medeiros]

You know, I could ask this same question about the GRW - is it worth it?

The question I pose in response to this and the original question, what do you gain by not getting it?

Two weeks of pay from work (RSC and NSC) and with your family.

Fair enough, and with the recent restrictions given the DL options those are certainly valid reasons to not pursue your Wilson, however some companies (as was mentioned by people I went to those schools with) will work with those who are going to those courses since it conveys information (operational and strategic leadership) that would be useful to the company.


On the other hand, what does a cadet gain by not pursuing the Spaatz?

[Ron1319]

I want to add a couple of things to the discussion, although Ned's response was extremely clear.  It's more than just whether or not it will specifically benefit you in life.  It's also about how you can benefit CAP by finishing the program.  I came back to CAP at 31 years old having been away for 8-9 years and I was astonished at how few cadet officers there were in Northern California.  The norm was for cadets to get some stripes, near the end of high school, and then move on with their lives.  Just a few cadets setting the example and now well into Phase IV and their motivating others.  We are seeing very significant growth in the cadet program and it's because of the few cadets that are well on their way to getting their Spaatz awards.  (22 weeks until Eaker and counting for two of them)

I could write a three page report on the ways that a group of cadets moving through the program can grow and what they can learn.  Those things aren't only things that can help the program but opportunities for growth that can certainly effect you for the rest of your life in ways that you won't be able to understand until much later.  I've had someone observe from watching me at my business that I am a master at delegation.  There is a reason why Ned's list of important people attribute their Spaatz accomplishment with their growth that helped them achieve other great things.  There is also probably a connection between the drive to complete the program (Eaker or Spaatz) and the drive to do great things. 

One more important thing -- My sister, her husband and I all believe that 90% of what we got out of the program came after we had three diamonds.  It's going to be hard to explain here, but things like command staff at encampment, IACE, out of state encampment leadership positions, NCC team commander, helping start a new squadron, National CAC chair, and duties at Wing HQ are all pretty much not available to a C/CMSgt.  And they shouldn't be. 

[Nathan]

Asking Spaatzens will only give half the story. I was always pretty motivated by listening to the people who capped out at Eaker tell me how much they regretted missing it, even if they didn't know exactly why.

[Ron1319]

I'm happy to lump C/LtC's in with Spaatzen for the purpose of saying that it's worth it to complete the program.  Either achievement will allow a cadet to contribute and grow as a Phase IV cadet.  If the question were "I have my Eaker and I want to know if it's worth it to take the Spaatz exam?" then the answer would be a definite "yes."

[Salty]

I regret not being able to take a second shot at it but I got drummed out of the cadet program because I went to USAF BMT. 

It's hard to say definitively but I think I would've been better prepared mentally and physically for the Spaatz had I been able to take it after I came home from USAF BMT and USAFSAM.  The person who left for BMT and USAFSAM was not the same person who came home 4.5 months later.

[FalconHatTrick]

Okay, I guess my input would be valid.  Been lurking behind the scenes of CT for a long time, but it seems to be time to speak up.

I made it through the cadet program and ended at Eaker.  I tested for the Spaatz once, and passed aerospace, failed leadership by two or three and decided to end the examination there, so no PT and no Essay.  At that point I was 20 years old, and it was about a month before my 21st birthday and figured once is enough.  So, I had been a C/Lt Col for about 2 years, and thought a lot about whether or not I should take it. 

A little background, I was already accepted into the college of my choice. I had some scholarships, but nothing to really brag about.  I got to the point in my CAP career where the "i love me wall" was full and collecting dust and it became about giving back to the squadron and really trying to inspire the younger generation. 

A couple years later, here I am.  A senior in college, graduating in June, a commercial pilot working on my CFI, I am employed as a pilot at a local skydiving dz.  Do i feel that getting my Spaatz could have helped? Not really.  I mean it would be nice to throw on my resume and have it be another talking point in an interview down the road, but so far not getting it hasn't hindered me in any way. 

The take away point would have to be, if you have the time to do it, go for it.  I should of done it sooner, than waiting two years, and rushing to get it in before my birthday.  I know there are many Spaatz Cadets out there who have done amazing things, but I also know there are Eaker, Earhart, Mitchell, etc Cadets out there doing amazing things.  Don't let the achievement of getting the Spaatz award be the sole decider on if you are going to achieve greatness in life. 

In the end, its your decision to take the test or not. Looking back, yeah it would have been nice, but I'm not going to lose sleep over the fact that I didn't pass.  I went into it saying, I want to pass at least the aerospace, and I did.  I am proud of myself for that, and honestly thats all that matters. 

I hope this helps in your future decisions, but in the end, YMMV.

[NCRblues]

I know there are many Spaatz Cadets out there who have done amazing things, but I also know there are Eaker, Earhart, Mitchell, etc Cadets out there doing amazing things. 

Also, there are many Spaatz cadets (and all the rest) who have gone on to do....nothing....

I do not judge a single cadet by what test he/she has taken and passed or failed or even attempted. I judge them on performance and respect. If a cadet wants to stay c/Lt. Col, than so be it, but that cadet must perform at c/Lt. Col or better. I have come across more than one Spaatz cadet that passed the tests, but should never have been given command of an ant hill, let alone other cadets in CAP.

In the end, it matters very little to anyone other than the person taking/not taking it and that person's family.

[MSG Mac]

How I love statistics!

87% of statistics are made up on the spot.

And 43.7% of them are at least partly incorrect.

14% of people know that!

"There are Lies, [darn] Lies, and Statistics"

[Nathan]

I know there are many Spaatz Cadets out there who have done amazing things, but I also know there are Eaker, Earhart, Mitchell, etc Cadets out there doing amazing things. 

Also, there are many Spaatz cadets (and all the rest) who have gone on to do....nothing....

I do not judge a single cadet by what test he/she has taken and passed or failed or even attempted. I judge them on performance and respect. If a cadet wants to stay c/Lt. Col, than so be it, but that cadet must perform at c/Lt. Col or better. I have come across more than one Spaatz cadet that passed the tests, but should never have been given command of an ant hill, let alone other cadets in CAP.

I generally avoid talking about "the attitude of Spaatz cadets", since there's no way anyone who disagrees with me can avoid pointing out my bias in the matter, but I would say that the Spaatz DOES indicate something that the Eaker doesn't.

When you see a Spaatz cadet, for the most part, you can at least feel somewhat safe that the individual knows how to get things done. That's definitely not to say that C/Lt Cols don't; all Spaatz cadets were once Eaker cadets. But passing the Spaatz within three tries isn't something that happens without preparation, motivation, and general know-how. Getting from C/Maj to C/Lt Col is a matter of a speech and an essay.

In other words, there's less of a difference between a C/Maj and a C/Lt Col than there is between a C/Lt Col and a C/Col, as far as testing requirements go. And getting to C/Maj is not a whole lot more complicated than getting to C/1st Lt.

I'm not trying to make the point that C/Col indicates a markedly different kind of cadet than you find in the rest of the program. I would just argue that Spaatz cadets are generally (but not always) made up of competent former C/Lt Cols; incompetent ones are pretty rarely going to make it to the Spaatz (although they manage to leak through from time to time). I think there are a lot (far too many) good C/Lt Cols that never make it to the Spaatz, for whatever reason, but far fewer bad C/Lt Cols are capable of passing the Spaatz exam on time, within three tries.

Of course, this sounds self-serving, but I do think there's a truth to it. I personally have met two C/Cols that were just awful, but I certainly found a higher percentage of competent Spaatz cadets than competent C/Lt Cols, simply because competent C/Lt Cols have a much higher chance of getting the Spaatz than incompetent C/Lt Cols. In general, I don't think it's wrong to give the award some generalized credit as a means of making initial judgments.

[Ron1319]

I'd like to add that I think that C/Col's are still cadets and still need mentoring and growth.  I don't like the assumption that just because a cadet is a C/Col and isn't immediately awesome that they can't grow into it.  I know a lot of us who wore the diamonds for years who grew a lot during that time.  For me it was the span of most of my college career, and I certainly grew in many ways during that time.

With all of this talk of "passing in three tries," can I suggest that there's no honor in taking the test more than once without getting flamed and crucified?  If anybody would like studying/preparation advice, please feel free to PM me.