New Here and have question on CAPR 10-2, need help

[C. Miconi]

Hi All, I am new here and new to CAP as of June 2011..Just appointed Personnel Officer on Sept 2011..Just went through my first SUI and had some questions..A. I dont have a mentor to help, so trying to clean up a Pesonnel mess that was not touched since Feb 2011 and way before...PLUS, I am Admin Assistant to an Admin that doesnt have a Mentor either.

Here are the couple of questions I have:
A. Need help understanding CAPR 10-2...very confused, we have to make a file plan for paper records/forms and some that I am converting to electronic form..ei: Senior Archive files.
B.  Do we still have to keep 2, 2a in the file if it is showing up on the Member Search Report...I know Unit Cit. doesnt show and must be kept and logged on 45, but what about the others...what I am asking is (What must be kept in the Senior file in paper form)  now that we have Members Search Report on eservices.

I am current trying to find a mentor, but not getting much response from other units...so I am out to solve this problem of lack of info on my own.   Any help would be grateful excepted!!

[Rowan]

Here are the couple of questions I have:
A. Need help understanding CAPR 10-2...very confused, we have to make a file plan for paper records/forms and some that I am converting to electronic form..ei: Senior Archive files.
B.  Do we still have to keep 2, 2a in the file if it is showing up on the Member Search Report...I know Unit Cit. doesnt show and must be kept and logged on 45, but what about the others...what I am asking is (What must be kept in the Senior file in paper form)  now that we have Members Search Report on eservices.

A.  I stressed over this too, earlier this year when preparing for my squadron's SUI.  I did it just like the regs stated.  I went out and bought hanging files and manila folders and filed everything according to the regs, then labeled the folders accordingly, then labeled the filing cabinet drawers, and created a file plan and stuck that in there, too.  And the inspector never even asked to see any of our files.

B.    Since the regs didn't say to disregard the paper form since it shows in e-services, then I thought it must be required.  I grumbled about creating paper documents for what appeared in e-services, but I wanted there to be one less thing for the inspectors to nail us on, so I created the paper documents.  During the inspection, I was asked lots of questions, then I was asked to hand over all the senior members' personnel files and go away for a few minutes.  The inspector rummaged through the files but didn't say anything more.  That's when I thanked myself for making sure all the F2s, F2A, PAs and everything else were in the files.

YMMV.

Our inspection was mid-June and we were told we would hear back in 45 days or so.  We still haven't heard a word.

[EMT-83]

I'm definitely a proponent of keeping copies of forms 2, 2a and the like, but don't normally produce paper copies. I just print to a PDF file for archiving. Someday, I'll get around to scanning old documents as well.

There have been several situations where having those old documents available has been very helpful for promotions or PD awards.

[Has been]

Unfortuneately the inspection guides have not always caught up with the manual or eservices so for some time yet you will need both. There has been some discussion of getting rid of the CAPF 45 but we are not there yet and won't be until NHQ gets a lot more storage space on their computers.

Boards, committees, etc often meet without access to eservices or access to the electronic records of every individual (think squadron commander who is the wing encampment commander) so having paper can make the case for you. It is always easier to pass paper around the table.

When you transfer things get lost, systems crash ... All members should also keep a paper copy of everything in thier CAPF 45. There are times when my files get damaged but we both appear on some orders so now I can rebuild part of my file from copies of yours. Can't do that electronicly.

Old foggies like me prefer papter. If feels better, we are more comfortable with it and we know what we are looking at. It also tells me more. (I can see that a member has three commander's comendations but the paper will tell me they all were awarded 11 years ago, all within a three year period and all were approved by the same person, who happens to have the same last name as the recipient. That tells me a lot more than eservices does at the moment.)

The file maintaince and disposition plan is helpful the first three weeks you take over the job but not after that. Nobody ever looks at it and the disposal codes don't mean anything to anybody and you don't check them anyway. When I had to do them I put real phrases in that column like (31 Dec) and the inspector bought the argument (three times) I understood the code, it was more efficent and it allowed me to use the plan.

Please accept a pat on the back for being professional and doing the whole job. You are living up to the core values

[Eclipse]

The new SUI guides account for paperless retention of records as long there is a formal plan.

[Cliff_Chambliss]

Following our last SUI in July 2010 I asked the Alabama Wing IG if electronic files were acceptable or if I had to maintain actual paper copies of everything.  He stated that electronic files were perfectly acceptable.

So, not having anything better to do I set up an Office Word/Excell file for each member.  I update the Form 45 as required and have scanned in copies of all other required forms and supporting documents.  With every monthly update I make three copies on Dvd, One copy I retain as Admin/Prof Dev/Asst Pers Officer, 1 copy I give to the Unit Commander, and the last copy goes to the Personnel Officer.     

Although we are a small sqdn (30 members) the majority of our sqdn members have been in since the 1960's and a couple from the 1940's (including one with a join date of 1 Dec 1941).  So the "supporting documents" can be a hefty stack of paper.

 

[C. Miconi]

We were asked for our File Pile on our SUI and got a finding for not having one...Seems there is some tension between higher ups in Squadron and Wing..Ahhhhh Govement, nothing new.

I will be putting current files on electronic format soon..I plan to use the word format of the 45 and transfer info to that form.  This will be a huge task as we are a compsite of 122 members right now, and growing.

We just got our new Hanger (home) and the computer system is not completely set up at this point, but were working on it....or should I say I am trying to get some help to work on it...LOL

Thanks to all who responded.  I am sure I will be back he in future for more help.

:clap:

[Eclipse]

We were asked for our File Pile on our SUI and got a finding for not having one...Seems there is some tension between higher ups in Squadron and Wing..Ahhhhh Govement, nothing new.

You have no files, or they are electronic?

If you have a full electronic plan, then you simply respond to the finding with that answer.  If you don't have anything, that's a legit finding.

[SARDOC]

Remember that if you maintain your records electronically you have to have a back up (preferably at a second location).   I'm curious to see how many squadrons have a database that is accessible to multiple people.  For Example, The Squadron Commander, Personnel Officer, Emergency services officer, Deputy Commanders are all supposed to have access.  How do you share records?

[JeffDG]

Remember that if you maintain your records electronically you have to have a back up (preferably at a second location).   I'm curious to see how many squadrons have a database that is accessible to multiple people.  For Example, The Squadron Commander, Personnel Officer, Emergency services officer, Deputy Commanders are all supposed to have access.  How do you share records?

That part's easy...especially if you're backing up your records frequently.

Put everything on a USB stick.  Make a copy for the CC, Personnel, ESO, and Deputy CC.  Provides automatic offsite backups.  Carry it on your keychain...wherever you are, you could pull up the data immediately, and so can all the other people...no need to come into the Squadron office and crack open a file cabinet.

[SARDOC]

Put everything on a USB stick.  Make a copy for the CC, Personnel, ESO, and Deputy CC.  Provides automatic offsite backups.  Carry it on your keychain...wherever you are, you could pull up the data immediately, and so can all the other people...no need to come into the Squadron office and crack open a file cabinet.

So when you have multiple people updating records on a thumbdrive how do you avoid having 5 different copies of a master record? How do you know the version you have is the most current if you don't have a shared database?

[C. Miconi]

Well, our File Plan is half paper and half electronic...so yes, we needed a File Plan and didnt have one, so we got the finding..Now I am out to fix that by asking the questions about the file plan...As for back up off site, I just load everything to a thumb driver...As for keeping everyone up dated, well, I am working on that area...I am thinking a server that when I down load an update, will be avaible for anyone with a password for the serve to be able to pull up what they need...You can get servers fairly cheap (Craigslist)..Set a password for each person and set it up for just what they need to see.  Example, Personnel, Pilots, Commander, Alerting Officer and Operations should be able to see info on PIlots, but ES Ground, Historian, Public Affiars, Cadet Commander do not need that info...Its going to take me a couple of months, but I will work it out.   PLUS, after I get that set up, then I can get a back up service like carbonite (around $50 a YEAR) and every time I add or delete something (and everone else on the server) it will back up right then and there.

I hope this makes sense?  I am not IT, I am just married to one for 25 years.  So I have  general idea of how this is suppose to work.  lol  Now I just have to convice Hubby to do the work....he is not CAP, he has other interests.

[Eclipse]

One example (attached below):

The file plan need not be complex, and really shouldn't be more than a single page.  It is simply an index that says where a respective file "is", but you have to insure that when they go and look "where ever", they actually find them.

Google Docs is all you need for a very robust file plan.  Either light up an Apps for education domain for your unit, or create an email address in Gmail - you  can share docs to anyone with a click, view, print, publish, all secure, all for free.

[Cliff_Chambliss]

Remember that if you maintain your records electronically you have to have a back up (preferably at a second location).   I'm curious to see how many squadrons have a database that is accessible to multiple people.  For Example, The Squadron Commander, Personnel Officer, Emergency services officer, Deputy Commanders are all supposed to have access.  How do you share records?

That part's easy...especially if you're backing up your records frequently.

Put everything on a USB stick.  Make a copy for the CC, Personnel, ESO, and Deputy CC.  Provides automatic offsite backups.  Carry it on your keychain...wherever you are, you could pull up the data immediately, and so can all the other people...no need to come into the Squadron office and crack open a file cabinet.

I use MS Office for the actual files and then save as read-only pdf's and copy to Color coded Dvd's (ex:  if it's blue it is either Jan or Jul update) for distribution to Off Site Back-up, Commander, and the Personnel Officer.  For the next question, yes, the commander has a copy of all the passwords for the program should something happen to me. 

It took a lot of time to get the initial files created, but monthly updates go rather quick now.  This is an ongoing work in progress and I am always open to new ideas.  However, I also want to keep the security rather tight, we do not need multiple people changing files willey-nilley.

[JeffDG]

Put everything on a USB stick.  Make a copy for the CC, Personnel, ESO, and Deputy CC.  Provides automatic offsite backups.  Carry it on your keychain...wherever you are, you could pull up the data immediately, and so can all the other people...no need to come into the Squadron office and crack open a file cabinet.

So when you have multiple people updating records on a thumbdrive how do you avoid having 5 different copies of a master record? How do you know the version you have is the most current if you don't have a shared database?

Designate one person as the authority of record.  If other people update stuff, their first step is to send to the authority of record.

[Eclipse]

^ That's so "last century"...

[JeffDG]

^ That's so "last century"...

Still a helluva lot better than a filing cabinet full of paper.

Personally, were I designing the system, I'd go with a proper document management system with check-out/check-in capability, versioning, etc..  Auditors in the real world (IGs in CAP) love it...leaves an audit trail anytime something changes.  But if you just want to go digital without a lot of hassle, the thumb-drives work pretty darn well.

[rmutchler]

For something like that, you would need to do something either in Sharepoint, or a true Document Management System.

[Eclipse]

For something like that, you would need to do something either in Sharepoint, or a true Document Management System.

Sharepoint isn't free, nor simple to administer.

[JeffDG]

For something like that, you would need to do something either in Sharepoint, or a true Document Management System.

Sharepoint isn't free, nor simple to administer.

Nor is it a document management system.