Excellent quality of video feed at NB / National Board Aug '11

[BillB]

The Head of the Canadian Air Cadet League is sitting at the head table. Thus the flag of canada.

[BillB]

Eaker Cadet

There is still a STRONG Pineda influence in Florida Wing.

[jeders]

The Head of the Canadian Air Cadet League is sitting at the head table. Thus the flag of canada.

That explains that then.

[JC004]

...
Even back in the Pineda days.....there was almost zero inpact at the squadron level.

That's the problem as I see it.

[NIN]

Clearly, its time to add a third thing to that old joke about the "two things you should never watch being made."

It was "Sausage and the law."

Now it should be "Sausage, the law, and National Commanders of CAP"

[bosshawk]

NIN:

+100 :clap: :clap: :clap:

[JeffDG]

The Head of the Canadian Air Cadet League is sitting at the head table. Thus the flag of canada.

Ahhh...I thought it was just for me...

[JeffDG]

This whole election just seems like a lot of back room deals where made.  Just my opinion.

OK, not commenting on the merits of either candidate here...really, I just don't know enough to do so intelligently...but what do you expect?

CAP currently operates on a closed-loop governance system.  Col. Weiss campaigned for the position, but did so with people who had no vote, and to top that off, those who did have a vote are not, in any way, accountable to those who he was campaigning with. 

It's a closed-loop system because the appointment goes:

CAP/CC->Region/CC->Wing-CC->CAP/CC...lather, rinse and repeat.  The governance model is not designed for change, it is designed to maintain the status quo.  Until such time as an outside force is applied to the loop, it will continue to operate as it has in the past.

For a historical reference, the only thing I can think of that had such a closed-loop governance model was the Soviet Union (note, this is not a Godwin's Llaw type of reference, simply a pointer to an analogous model used elsewhere):

General Secretary->Central Committee->Politburo->General Secretary

[Eclipse]

I know it is owing to our corporate nature, but I'd prefer the CC and CV be appointed by CAP-USAF, and perhaps the major staff postions like CS would have to be approved by them.

[Persona non grata]

I know it is owing to our corporate nature, but I'd prefer the CC and CV be appointed by CAP-USAF, and perhaps the major staff postions like CS would have to be approved by them.

That would be the better option!!!!!

[jeders]

I know it is owing to our corporate nature, but I'd prefer the CC and CV be appointed by CAP-USAF, and perhaps the major staff postions like CS would have to be approved by them.

I have to agree 100% on this one.

[JeffDG]

I know it is owing to our corporate nature, but I'd prefer the CC and CV be appointed by CAP-USAF, and perhaps the major staff postions like CS would have to be approved by them.

My personal opinion, membership on the NB should be separated from Wing Command.

Any time someone proposes electing NB members, the complaint always comes back that you shouldn't elect your boss (even though that's what the NB just did in elected a new CAP/CC).  And that has a lot of merit from a chain-of-command perspective.

But, why does the job of NB member and Wing/CC have to go together?  Why couldn't each Wing elect a NB member.  The NB members from each region could select from among themselves a representative for the NEC.  Then the NB would appoint the CAP/CC, who would appoint the Region/CCs and the Wing/CCs.  The NB members would have no special role in the chain-of-command, however, Wing/CCs would be wise to seek and accept their counsel I'm sure.

Now, the membership has a meaningful input into the process (electing their NB reps), and the chain-of-command is not polluted with selecting your own boss.  The NB/NEC sets policy, the chain of command carries out that policy.

[flyguy06]

The Head of the Canadian Air Cadet League is sitting at the head table. Thus the flag of canada.

I was wondering about that myself

[keystone102]

The afternoon session has started. Time to elect the National Vice Commander

[flyguy06]

I don't think sour grapes serves anyone, whether in CAP, or in National elections - we see where that gets us.  Day-to-day, who the National CC is has much less effect on the membership than who the Wing Admin is.

I have no specific issue with Gen. Carr, I just don't think he will be the instrument of disruptive change that FW was purporting, and that is what CAP needs, disruptive change.  I perceive that things will be status quo, for all that means.

I agree with this too. It really doesnt matter who the National Commander is. As long as we hlp our community at thelocal level. Thats what is important.

[Mustang]

Did Vasquez just claim, with great pride, credit for the most ridiculous rewrite of a CAP reg in recent memory?  Since that rewrite, CAPR 60-1 is next to useless. 

[a2capt]

Do have to say one thing though.. at least they know CT exists .. their [Filter Subversion] is going to get scrutinized..

[jeders]

I know it is owing to our corporate nature, but I'd prefer the CC and CV be appointed by CAP-USAF, and perhaps the major staff postions like CS would have to be approved by them.

My personal opinion, membership on the NB should be separated from Wing Command.

Any time someone proposes electing NB members, the complaint always comes back that you shouldn't elect your boss (even though that's what the NB just did in elected a new CAP/CC).  And that has a lot of merit from a chain-of-command perspective.

But, why does the job of NB member and Wing/CC have to go together?  Why couldn't each Wing elect a NB member.  The NB members from each region could select from among themselves a representative for the NEC.  Then the NB would appoint the CAP/CC, who would appoint the Region/CCs and the Wing/CCs.  The NB members would have no special role in the chain-of-command, however, Wing/CCs would be wise to seek and accept their counsel I'm sure.

Now, the membership has a meaningful input into the process (electing their NB reps), and the chain-of-command is not polluted with selecting your own boss.  The NB/NEC sets policy, the chain of command carries out that policy.

That's another way to skin a cat. Though I have a feeling that it would end up where the vast majority of the NB nominees would come from the Wing CC and those close to him/her. That would just bring that cycle back, though admittedly not as bad.

My personal opinion is that if Nat CC/VC were chosen by some outside force, either the BoG or CAP-USAF, and then Region/Wing CCs were appointed, then we would permanently end the electing your boss cycle.

[JC004]

...
Col. Weiss campaigned for the position, but did so with people who had no vote, and to top that off, those who did have a vote are not, in any way, accountable to those who he was campaigning with. 
...

That is incorrect.  If you are not a National Board member, then you did not see the campaigning with the National Board members. 

National Board members were targeted through SEVERAL means (mail, e-mail, telephone, etc.).  The campaign simply INCLUDED the entire membership for the purpose of involving the membership in their organization's future. 

Do you know what's sad?  A new National Commander gets elected and people are relieved that they historically have had little impact on the local level. 

[jeders]

38-28, Col Vasquez wins.