Pips on Uniforms?

[Major_Chuck]

Uniforms should not be this frustrating, especially for Cadets.

Uniforms should not be frustrating for any of us.  Cadet or Officer.

[SarDragon]

Uniforms should not be this frustrating, especially for Cadets.

Uniforms should not be frustrating for any of us.  Cadet or Officer.

And we seem to like to reinvent the wheel on these issues about once a year. Regarding cadet officer insignia and shoulderboards, this has been a problem for about forty years.

The obvious answer is to fix the boards and the insignia so they play nicely together. Since we know that isn't likely, why aren't the folks who have encountered or know about the problem passing on their wisdom before it gets to the point where a cadet has to ask an online forum for answers?

I never wore the darn things, but paid enough attention to the cadets around me that did, to be able to pass on my knowledge to those who needed it.

[DNall]

well, there just ain't that many C/officers around for one thing. We adults try to help, but most Sqs don't haev a former cadet in them, much less a former cadet O.

[mikeylikey]

Why not just get rid of the boards altogether.  Pin the cadet rank right on the blue coat.

[AlphaSigOU]

Why not just get rid of the boards altogether.  Pin the cadet rank right on the blue coat.

'Cause there's bound to be somebody who's gonna complain loudly and vociferously over the loss of another CAP tradition.

Being a former cadet officer, and having suffered through putting on grade insignia on shoulderboards, it's no big loss if they went the way of the dodo bird.

[MIKE]

The thing is that if you ditch the shoulder boards cadet officers will either have to use service coats with epaulets, or pin the grade to the lapel like AFJROTC.  At least with the shoulder boards it is possible to use the cheaper new style enlisted coat without epaulets.

[ZigZag911]

The thing is that if you ditch the shoulder boards cadet officers will either have to use service coats with epaulets, or pin the grade to the lapel like AFJROTC.  At least with the shoulder boards it is possible to use the cheaper new style enlisted coat without epaulets.

As a former cadet officer who thought the things were an ornamental looking pain in the posterior (pretty, but a pain!) let's either get rid of them (so they pin on collar like AFJROTC, so what!) or re-engineer the foolish things so they work!

[MIKE]

Don't get me wrong ZZ, I was a cadet officer too... and have personal experience with the current boards.  I don't care for the looks of them nor the expense, myself.

[ZigZag911]

Don't get me wrong ZZ, I was a cadet officer too... and have personal experience with the current boards.  I don't care for the looks of them nor the expense, myself.

Understood, all sides of these issues need to be considered!

[DNall]

We got a tradition of using our people up till they're burned out & pushing them away, crazy politics in the chain, and horrible retention... It's a warm & fuzzy word, but I don't know how far I carry water for it on that account alone.

I'll be a CAC meeting later this month with some good upper level cadet officers. Try to remember to ask how they feel about this. I'd think they'd not like the pin on lapel bit, but all in favor of getting rid of the current boards. Large insignia pinned thru the epaulet seems the best solution, but that's a good point about boards let you use the enlisted coat. Pretty predictable they'll say fix it.

[Al Sayre]

It's been a long long time since I had to fool with shoulder boards (my pips were Gold), but as an Engineer, here's my suggestion for pins that are just a little too short (like on my wings). 

Get a pair of diagonal cutters (dikes) and gently make an indentation all the way around the the pin about 1/4 inch from the pointy end of the pin (it only needs to be far enough to engage the internal clips of the frog).   

It's easiest to get a bite on the pin with the dikes and then rotate the insigna a few times kind of like using a pipe cutter.  You might want to practice a couple of times first on a paper clip.

This gives the "Frog" something to close around to prevent it from slipping back off. 

Viola!  Problem fixed.

[Psicorp]

The thing is that if you ditch the shoulder boards cadet officers will either have to use service coats with epaulets, or pin the grade to the lapel like AFJROTC.  At least with the shoulder boards it is possible to use the cheaper new style enlisted coat without epaulets.

Not to mention that the new enlisted service coat is readily available on Ebay.  Finding an Officer coat on Ebay,however,  is worthy of a "Find".

[MIKE]

IIRC the enlisted coat when new is still selling for under $100... Somewhere around $85 last I saw.  Officers coats go for near to $200 IIRC, for some epaulets and some sleeve braid that isn't even on the coat when you get it.

[DNall]

You know that's kind of crazy right, niether one cost nearly that much before the enlisted version was roled out - when it was all officer style.

[MIKE]

It's the class system I tells ya. 

[mikeylikey]

I think it looks goofy to have the boards on the enlisted version of the coat to begin with.  It just doesn't look the same without epaulets under the boards.  As far as using price for a determining g factor, cadets can still wear the old style of officer coat which can be found almost anywhere if you look. 

Here's a fix, get rid of the boards, allow cadet officers to either pin the rank directly on the epaulet or if they don't have epaulets, 1) buy the conversion kit, OR 2) pin it on the lapel.

[Guardrail]

I think it looks goofy to have the boards on the enlisted version of the coat to begin with.  It just doesn't look the same without epaulets under the boards.

I agree.  Just about as goofy as pinning on c/officer insignia on the lapel (although that's just my opinion).

As far as using price for a determining g factor, cadets can still wear the old style of officer coat which can be found almost anywhere if you look.

Yes, although I think the price of an old used service dress coat will probably be between the new enlisted coat and the new officer coat.  It's best to just get them used from AFJROTC (if there are any left).  The squadron I was in WIWAC got them donated for free.   

Here's a fix, get rid of the boards, allow cadet officers to either pin the rank directly on the epaulet or if they don't have epaulets, 1) buy the conversion kit, OR 2) pin it on the lapel.

I'm more in favor of directly pinning on the regular size metal grade insignia on the epaulet sleeve.  After all, the grade insignia is very separate and distinct from that of the Air Force.  Plus, it would be cheaper both for the buyer and the producer.  Those boards CAP has now are meticulously made and are probably expensive to make. 

 

[Guardrail]

Why not just get rid of the boards altogether.  Pin the cadet rank right on the blue coat.

'Cause there's bound to be somebody who's gonna complain loudly and vociferously over the loss of another CAP tradition.

Being a former cadet officer, and having suffered through putting on grade insignia on shoulderboards, it's no big loss if they went the way of the dodo bird.

You're right, it would be no big loss at all.  In fact, it would be a gain for CAP because it would be one less expense both the members and NHQ would have to deal with.  I don't know how expensive the c/officer shoulder boards are to produce, but they can't be cheap.

Sometimes traditions have to be sacrificed for the betterment of the organization.  Money not spent on c/officer shoulder boards could be better used elsewhere.  Even as a cadet officer I strongly disliked the shoulder boards. 

[A.Member]

Gorrilla Glue, blue lock tite,  JB Weld, Dermabond, spot welding....

You joke but that's exactly what I did with the insignia for my flying saucer. 

The screw-on mounting post for the insignia device did not align correctly with the mounting hole for the cap.  The result was that the eagle was flying off the top of the cap...Soviet style.  I don't know if the issue is with the cap manufacturer (it's a USAF service cap purchased from the base clothing store) or if it's an issue with the manufacturer of the device (I've purchased two and both had the same problem).

So, what did I do?  Hacked off the post, grabbed the soldering gun and re-attached the post to the "correct" location. 

[DNall]

good job. No redesign of device between old style & new style service caps. The hole has been re-positionsed to accomodate the new AF star/wing sinsignia along w/ altered officer device, CAP missed the memo. Not that I encourage use of service caps anyway, lest its an all officer competitive color guard - anyone for an enlisted device for honor guard purposes?

I actually don't know what the deal is with service coats, we got a few hundred here & every cadet has one. The co-AFJROTC cadets seem to prefer the old style for some reason, which is mostly what we got, but lots of new style enlisted coats also. Don't know if there's any new style officer coats, but it wouldn't suprise me. Lots of all-weather coats too. I'd lean toward thinking we just have a great supply officer, but whoever that is I've never met them & I'm Dep Cdr. Maybe it could be the Wg logistics officer, but no I know him & he's got an aversion to signing for govt property. We did well back in the day, but I hadn't seen much but outgoing since I came back to this Sq in Aug. I actually wear my service coat a little more than I have in the past cause cadets wear sevice coats for warmth on blues nights.