Please Help? I don't know what to do about this cadet issue.

[maurer172]

In June or July, an 8Th grader at the time, also a Civil Air Patrol cadet, (I was in 6Th grade at the time and also a Civil Air Patrol cadet [which I still am]) text me using my friends phone and pretending to be my friend and cussed me out, put me down, and so much more. I was and I believe still am a higher rank.She didn't text me that until I moved to TX, well I moved back 5 months ago. I recently found out she broke 3 regulations, just on the first page. What is your feedback? What should I do?

[davidsinn]

In June or July, an 8Th grader at the time, also a Civil Air Patrol cadet, (I was in 6Th grade at the time and also a Civil Air Patrol cadet [which I still am]) text me using my friends phone and pretending to be my friend and cussed me out, put me down, and so much more. I was and I believe still am a higher rank.She didn't text me that until I moved to TX, well I moved back 5 months ago. I recently found out she broke 3 regulations, just on the first page. What is your feedback? What should I do?

Talk to your chain of command.

[maurer172]

My only problem with that is, I'm afraid she might start a fight if I do. How can I go through my chain of command without getting her to start a fight.

[Pylon]

That's what your chain of command is there to prevent.  They can help you.  Your flight commander, cadet commander, and most importantly the senior members will always do what they can to help.


If you don't feel comfortable talking to them and if your squadron has a chaplain, you can always request to speak to the chaplain confidentially.

[coudano]

first of all, this is not a rank issue
nor is it a regulations issue



this is an interpersonal issue.
she did a jerk move, on you.
that's all there REALLY is to it.  Respond to the situation on those terms and those terms alone.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

This is one thing the chain of command is there for.

I'm going to echo what the others have said on that.

She was way out of line, regardless of rank.

If you have access to a CAP Chaplain - if your unit doesn't have one your wing probably will - they can intervene.  A Character Development Instructor can help too but I would still recommend a Chaplain.

As for "starting a fight"...CAP is supposed to be a SAFE PLACE.  Anyone who wants to "start a fight" has no business in that SAFE PLACE.

When I first joined CAP back in '93 I attended a Wing Communications Course and there was one (older) cadet about ready to leave for the Marines in the class.  There was also a younger cadet who stuttered.  The older cadet openly made fun of the younger one and the more I heard it the angrier I got.

I went to the officer in charge of the course and told her.

Within the hour I saw the cadet commander disciplining the bad actor...and the officer in charge directed said bad actor to sit with me for the remainder of the class!

Bullying is too prevalent in society as it is.  It has no place in CAP.

[IceNine]

Your chain of command will be able to evaluate the situation, but you will need to tell them the WHOLE story and determine the best course of action.

[Capination]

Do you have evidence that she did it? At the end, it will come down to a hearsay thing. I'll advise you to learn from this experience: did this situation affect your performance as a Cadet? don't think so. Move on and continue your advancement, continue your development and use this exprerience as a character development exercise. The best way to tell her that she was wrong is to get your Spaatz Award...yeap, that award that she would most probably never see on her uniform. Character involves focusing on the mission....thus, focus on your mission. Your mission is to continue your development and making no unnecessary stops to handle minor incidents like this one. With regards to getting this to the Chain of Command, if you've been harassed again by the same individual or you believe that the same individual can get violent...your safety is first....take it then to the Chain of Command and the Chaplain for immediate attention.

[Patterson]

Seriously............

Stop txtN.  muv on w yor Lyf alredi.

[SII-117]

Seriously............

Stop txtN.  muv on w yor Lyf alredi.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
It was a one time deal. Seriously.
For all you know, he/she, was having a really bad day, and you were open to attack.
Or this particular cadet was ticked off by something you did, and overreacted.
ITS NOT BULLYING UNLESS YOU ARE BEING BULLIED!!!

[Eclipse]

ITS NOT BULLYING UNLESS YOU ARE BEING BULLIED!!!

Perhaps you should use that sentence above as the basis of a CDI discussion at your next unit meeting.

I would also suggest you review CAP's Cadet Protection training, and perhaps spend a little time with the first part of the
curriculum from Encampment RST.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^^What Eclipse said.

Those who try to minimise the impact of bullying do so at their own peril.

I was one of those who was bullied as a child...and the Official Response Handed Down From Heaven Above By The Ever-Wise School Administration Was: just ignore it and it will stop.  It did not, and at 45 years old I still feel the effects of it.

It's multiplied now by the cyber-bullying aspect.

One of my "crusades," for want of a better term, is to, as much as I can, minimise the effects of bullying on kids today.  That's a big reason why I do what I do in CAP...because there are so precious few "safe places" for kids nowadays, I want CAP to be one of those.

That means zero tolerance for bullying.  If I witness it, I turn the issue and perpetrator over to the Sqn CC, with recommendations:

First offence: Verbal reprimand/talk to parents
Second offence: Written reprimand in file/talk to parents again
Third offence: Take a stripe and suspend from CAP activities for 60 days
Fourth offence: 2B

Thankfully, I haven't had to do so yet.  I hope I don't.

[davidsinn]

I was one of those who was bullied as a child...and the Official Response Handed Down From Heaven Above By The Ever-Wise School Administration Was: just ignore it and it will stop.  It did not, and at 45 years old I still feel the effects of it.

Got one better for you. My mother was told: "I'm not going to do anything about it because he's leaving the other kids alone when he bullies your son."

[Eclipse]

From personal experience I can tell you that the only thing more dangerous than a bully is the kid who decides
he's had enough.  Which I literally did one day early in high school after having a fairly rough time in grammar school.
I was usually the biggest kid in my class but I just couldn't be bothered to push back.

Until one day when a young man found my last nerve, and was shocked to be thrown down a flight of stairs with me on
his back. 

Luckily no one was hurt, we could have literally both been killed or disabled.

The result was just a fair amount of detention, and the typical becoming if not "friends", at least respectful acquaintances.

This was before all the "zero tolerance" nonsense, and when there was still an expectation people would fight relatively fair,
especially at a catholic boys high school.  Today those frazzled kids either hurt themselves or come to school with guns.

[SARDOC]

I was getting harassed in junior high for a couple of weeks...until I broke his nose.  He wasn't expecting it...the harassment stopped.

[HGjunkie]

I was bullied in middle school... I found out that if you fight back here in Florida, it's "Mutual Combat." Either way, I don't have that problem anymore after getting into High School.... after I had to threaten a kid to get him to back down. No problems with anyone since. 

[Woodsy]

I had this one kid bully me all through middle and high school.  I was a big guy (think defensive lineman) and he was about 5'2 100lbs soaking wet.  It really didn't bother me too much, I just laughed it off and thought he was an idiot.  One day my junior year, he took it a little too far on a particularly sensitive subject (I had just recovered from some pretty serious medical issues) and was giving me hell in the hallway.  Well I dropped my bookbag, towered over him and told him to bring it.  He was shocked to say the least and ran away with his tail between his legs like the coward he was.  In a mater of a few weeks, he had gone from mr. popular to the sissy loser, his girlfriend (hottest girl in school, cheerleader captain, prom queen, etc...) dumped him for me, and pretty much had a very different life.  He got what he deserved if you ask me, and no one got hurt.

[peter rabbit]

That means zero tolerance for bullying.  If I witness it, I turn the issue and perpetrator over to the Sqn CC, with recommendations:
First offence: Verbal reprimand/talk to parents
Second offence: Written reprimand in file/talk to parents again
Third offence: Take a stripe and suspend from CAP activities for 60 days
Fourth offence: 2B

from CAPR 52-10 para 1: Hazing.  Hazing is defined as any conduct whereby someone causes another to suffer or to be exposed to any activity that is cruel, abusive, humiliating, oppressive, demeaning, or harmful.  Actual or implied consent to acts of hazing does not eliminate the culpability of the perpetrator.

1.   Reporting Requirements.  Senior members, cadets, and parents/guardians should immediately report incidents of observed or suspected abuse to the unit commander or commander at the next higher level of command.  Whenever a commander has received a report of abuse, suspects that abuse has occurred or may occur, or believes there is an appearance of impropriety in the nature of cadet abuse by a member of CAP, the commander will immediately suspend the member from CAP and will report the abuse ...........

[AngelWings]

Has others have said, report the person, and has I say, if you feel the need. Ignore it until it becomes something serious enough where it happens everyday/often.
And to contribute to the stories of self defense. This one kid irrated me so much. He called me "gay","fat", and "dumb". He got me so mad that I snapped and kneed him in the face. Was suspended for 3 days, and went to a WWE event. Best time of my life.

[peter rabbit]

Has others have said, report the person, and has I say, if you feel the need. Ignore it until it becomes something serious enough where it happens everyday/often.

This is part of the problem - it is ignored until it becomes something serious. Why not "nip it in the bud", immediately let the person know that type of conduct will not be permitted in CAP?

[AngelWings]

Has others have said, report the person, and has I say, if you feel the need. Ignore it until it becomes something serious enough where it happens everyday/often.

This is part of the problem - it is ignored until it becomes something serious. Why not "nip it in the bud", immediately let the person know that type of conduct will not be permitted in CAP?

Some people made have been in a bad mood, and could have been looking to let some steam off. If you know the person is a good person, then reporting them might be a bad choice. If they are a bad person, reporting them would be a great choice. Over-treating is just has bad has under-treating. It takes alot of critical thinking to be balanced in treating a case like such. Last thing is that zero-tolerance thinking breaks up critical thinking, and reporting at the speed of light may cause a few more problems, the biggest one being a suspension and a bad record for a good person, like I hinted before.

[MO10]

some things to consider:
- has it continued?
- was this person just "running their mouth?"
- is the cause for the text known, and did your actions somehow cause the response?
- were there threats of violence?
- do you (honestly) feel concerned for your safety?

None of the questions are meant to undermine or belittle your feelings.  Someone mentioned earlier that critical thinking needs to be applied to the problem so that any response is appropriate.  Many times this type of incident is not one sided.  For example if you responded in kind to those texts you could appear to be a willing participant in the exchange and possibly not that intimidated by this person.  That perspective is from that of criminal enforcement.

I would recommend as others have report the incident to your command so they are aware.  This too should help in keeping that behavior in check while on CAP activities.  Something else to consider is whether or not the incident occurred while on CAP time.  If it didn't it's complete and proper resolution is a matter for your parents and possibly your local law enforcement.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

There's a real fine line with this matter...and first off, I am not impartial, having been the victim of bullying from grade school through high school.  By the time I got into high school I was so depressed and missed so much school because of it that I got kicked out.  However, I did go back and get my GED and later a degree.  As I said earlier, at 45 I still feel the effects, mostly in the form of PTSD.

MO10 said "was this person just 'running their mouth?'"  I used to hear almost those exact words from so-called "school administrators," who would tell me and my parents, "kids are just being kids...they shoot their mouth off all the time...just ignore it."

(Incidentally, I DID finally strike back, but I'll decline to elaborate on that.)

MO10 - sorry, not meaning to pick on you - also said "did your actions somehow cause the response?"  I remember being told by several of my antagonists that it didn't matter if I fought back or stayed quiet to them.

Parents could complain all they wanted then.  My dad went to the principal several times, first trying to be reasonable and finally getting so angry over the way they were mishandling it (after all, many of my antagonists were "good boys" from "good homes" - meaning, they had more money) that the principal told him to leave or he was calling the police.

But also, consider the times - it was the '70s/'80s, there was no Facebook, instant messaging or cell phones.  The closest equivalent was writing Bravo Sierra about someone on a bathroom wall.  Also, at my grade school if you got caught fighting, they took you down to the gym, put boxing gloves on you and let you fight it out (with the school nurse supervising).  No way would that be allowed now.

A big reason why I take part in CAP is to hopefully make some sort of safe place for young people, with the focus on PREVENTION.

I would rather apply constructive, corrective discipline to a bad actor rather than see just one kid grow up being someone's favourite target.  BTDT.

[MO10]

Cyborg I agree with you.  I don't feel picked on.  As I invesitgate this type of crime I find the situation is not (always) as black and white as the reporting party would like me believe.  Those questions I posed are intended to help gain more incite to the problem.  I find it is difficult to rectify a problem without knowing what the problem is and how it came to be.

[Hawk200]

How many people have seen the video of Casey Haynes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI0XvPbJOu0&feature=player_embedded

Can't say I agree with the violence, but I really can't fault the kid for his response. However, I certainly can't agree with the boy being suspended for his actions when the school had a history of saying "Just tell a teacher." He had been "telling a teacher", and nothing was done. He took the only action left to him.

[HGjunkie]

How many people have seen the video of Casey Haynes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI0XvPbJOu0&feature=player_embedded

Can't say I agree with the violence, but I really can't fault the kid for his response. However, I certainly can't agree with the boy being suspended for his actions when the school had a history of saying "Just tell a teacher." He had been "telling a teacher", and nothing was done. He took the only action left to him.

BODYSLAM!!! But seriously, good on him.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

When I was a sophomore in high school, one day I was out sick.

It was a Friday, and when I went back to school on Monday, I heard something that was almost unbelievable.

One of the quietest guys in my shop class had finally had-it-up-to-here and kicked the living SNOT out of one of the worst big-mouth rectal cavity bullies in the class, if not the school.  The jerk carried black-and-blue marks to prove it.

I congratulated the guy who did it...but he seemed embarrassed that he'd done it.  I loathed the bully and would have paid good money to have seen this quiet kid chastise the bigmouth.

Of course, since he "threw the first punch" he got nailed for it by the powers that be.  Never mind what led up to it on the other guy's behalf...all they cared about was who got the first lick in.

The best way to prevent bullying, especially in CAP, is prevention.

If that doesn't work, intervention.

A bully will be a bully until s/he is called on it.

[Hawk200]

How many people have seen the video of Casey Haynes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI0XvPbJOu0&feature=player_embedded

Can't say I agree with the violence, but I really can't fault the kid for his response. However, I certainly can't agree with the boy being suspended for his actions when the school had a history of saying "Just tell a teacher." He had been "telling a teacher", and nothing was done. He took the only action left to him.

BODYSLAM!!! But seriously, good on him.

I've got a lot of respect for the guy. He slammed the brat, took a few steps away, and stopped to make sure the kid didn't come after him. When the brat didn't, he turned and walked away. I could understand if he just beat the crap out of him, but I wouldn't have much respect for him after that.

What a lot of bullies don't seem to realize is that someday someone will respond in a matter that leaves them seriously out matched or out in the cold. You may not get bruised now, but your behavior can cost you a lot later in life.

[Chappie]

Covered this topic in a Character Development session conducted this past week at a local squadron.  Used a film clip of a "classic" scene from "The Christmas Story" where the voice-over spoke of three categories: bullies, toadies (bully's group) and the victims as well as the Haynes clip.  Discussed the characteristics of both bullies and victims...had a bully cycle slide.  Great discussion time with the cadets on this hot topic. 

[AngelWings]

Has others have said, report the person, and has I say, if you feel the need. Ignore it until it becomes something serious enough where it happens everyday/often.

This is part of the problem - it is ignored until it becomes something serious. Why not "nip it in the bud", immediately let the person know that type of conduct will not be permitted in CAP?

True. But good people who are having problems shouldn't be in the same crosshairs has the bad people.

[peter rabbit]

True. But good people who are having problems shouldn't be in the same crosshairs has the bad people.

Please give an example.

[AngelWings]

True. But good people who are having problems shouldn't be in the same crosshairs has the bad people.

Please give an example.

One of my peers, who I know is a really good person from experience, was having a bad day. I saw him in a hallway at my school and something got him to yell at this kid. I learned that he was given a detention because of it. This added to the problems he was having and he left the school in disgust. He ,later that week, was back to normal, but was upset because he got a detention. He explained to me (after offering out my hand in friendship) that he just needed someone to talk to.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Maybe not the best example.

From personal history, I'd say it's a bit unfair when I tell bullies to "go away" when they are picking on someone, get punched for my trouble with a nice shiner right before encampment, and get the same punishment for having the nerve to defend myself...

[peter rabbit]

So - Littleguy - you're saying there should be no consequences for someone's actions because they were having a bad day?

[lordmonar]

Are we still talking about the OP....or are we now just talking about bullying?

Bullying is bad....ummmm okay....so don't do it....umm okay.

As for how we or anyone handles discipline......we as in all things....it is relative.  No one thinks what they did is all that bad....and most supervisors don't have all the information to make the "best" decision.  But we all do the best we can with the information at hand and with our own mission/goal/agendas at heart.

Lots of good people have been burned by blanket rules that did not forsee their particular situation.   But we live in a system of rules and we have to abide by them.

[Spaceman3750]

Bullying is bad....ummmm okay....so don't do it....umm okay.

The proper way to say it is "mmmkay", as in "Drugs are bad, mmmkay?" .

[AngelWings]

So - Littleguy - you're saying there should be no consequences for someone's actions because they were having a bad day?

I'm saying that if you know a person is good then instead of giving them a harsh punishment that could scar a clean record, you should seek a better, more teach/learn talk about what the mistake and how to avoid making it again. Everyone makes mistakes, and a person who is able to learn correctly should very well be given a chance to do just that, learn from their mistake. I remember when I first joined this forum I said some stupid things, but rather than having someone flame the situation and kick me off, they talked to me, and I learned that I should think before I speak, and I should avoid saying things that beg people to argue with me. Anyways, if someone acts the same way again, then a harsh punishment is suitable for that person because they need to be taught the hard way not to do something, like in this case, bully someone for no reason. I'm not sticking about for anybody, and I don't know the aggressor here so I all I can do is offer my wisdom and my experiences.

[DogCollar]

Rarely is aggressive behavior caused by having "a bad day."  I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but bullying is not a "one and done" behavior.  There is almost always a long pattern of misbehavior that is learned most often at home.  Dad may not be a physical bully, but may lay the onerous expectation of "to be a real man...you've got to be tough" on a son.

I was also bullied all through middle school.  I tried anything and everything I could think of to get the bully who was tormenting me to stop.  He went to a different high school than me and life got a lot better.  Almost 35 years later I encountered him when he was a patient in the hospital I work in.  I is a hard core homeless man, raging alcoholic, and suffers both mental and physical impairments.  I don't know the whole story and he certainly didn't remember me.  Instead of feeling vindicated or superior, I couldn't help but feel very sad for him.  While he made me miserable for three years, in the long term, he has suffered the worse misery.

We know that every bully doesn't become homeless.  Some never change, most grow up and learn to live within societies rules.  Adults have, especially in CAP, have an opportunity to respond to both the victims of bullying and the bullies themselves in ways that sometimes can influence positive change.