Do they count everything you have at encampment?

[a2capt]

3. (as someone said) don't pack items that require other things to work, like laundry soap. Unless however that thing something that you can bring (i.e. bringing starch, you should bring an iron.)
...
5. don't overpack on stupid things. What are you going to do with 800 hangers?  Especially since the packing list recommended like 3?

But you could hawk hangers to those who didn't bring enough, too - and earn 'points' or even cash ... and that can of starch, while it might be empty at the end of the week, it could make or break your flight, element, etc. from winning something because everyone's uniform was squared away, when someone else didn't have any.


But yes, don't overpack. You'll find you won't touch most of it, if it's not on the list anyway. The lists are created from past experience, current curriculum and experience. A small package of laundry powder may go a long way and take up little to no impact in your overall packing scheme though.

[Dieneces]

That would almost certainly depend on what was missing and how hard it would be to replace it.

If you have some examples, we might be able to speculate more.

Hahahaha, well tx wing requires sport supports and I don't really care to bring those.

When I was encampment commander and this happened, the cadet was not allowed to participate.  Remember you have to complete 80% of the curriculum.  And part of that curriculum is met with the sports/pt activities you do.  If you are not allowed to participate, you may be putting your own graduation credit at risk - and it would be shame to go through all of encampment but not receive credit because you chose not to bring something that simple.

[davidsinn]

That would almost certainly depend on what was missing and how hard it would be to replace it.

If you have some examples, we might be able to speculate more.

Hahahaha, well tx wing requires sport supports and I don't really care to bring those.

When I was encampment commander and this happened, the cadet was not allowed to participate.  Remember you have to complete 80% of the curriculum.  And part of that curriculum is met with the sports/pt activities you do.  If you are not allowed to participate, you may be putting your own graduation credit at risk - and it would be shame to go through all of encampment but not receive credit because you chose not to bring something that simple.

You mandate the under garments a cadet is allowed to wear? Isn't that going a bit far?

[Spaceman3750]

That would almost certainly depend on what was missing and how hard it would be to replace it.

If you have some examples, we might be able to speculate more.

Hahahaha, well tx wing requires sport supports and I don't really care to bring those.

When I was encampment commander and this happened, the cadet was not allowed to participate.  Remember you have to complete 80% of the curriculum.  And part of that curriculum is met with the sports/pt activities you do.  If you are not allowed to participate, you may be putting your own graduation credit at risk - and it would be shame to go through all of encampment but not receive credit because you chose not to bring something that simple.

PT represents 20% of encampment now? WIWAC at encampment I remember a lot of death by PowerPoint, drill, and inspections, but not a whole lot of PT...

[davidsinn]

That would almost certainly depend on what was missing and how hard it would be to replace it.

If you have some examples, we might be able to speculate more.

Hahahaha, well tx wing requires sport supports and I don't really care to bring those.

When I was encampment commander and this happened, the cadet was not allowed to participate.  Remember you have to complete 80% of the curriculum.  And part of that curriculum is met with the sports/pt activities you do.  If you are not allowed to participate, you may be putting your own graduation credit at risk - and it would be shame to go through all of encampment but not receive credit because you chose not to bring something that simple.

PT represents 20% of encampment now? WIWAC at encampment I remember a lot of death by PowerPoint, drill, and inspections, but not a whole lot of PT...

It shouldn't but if taken with missed time elsewhere in the program it could be the straw that breaks the camels back and hits that 20% mark.

[Dieneces]

That would almost certainly depend on what was missing and how hard it would be to replace it.

If you have some examples, we might be able to speculate more.

Hahahaha, well tx wing requires sport supports and I don't really care to bring those.

When I was encampment commander and this happened, the cadet was not allowed to participate.  Remember you have to complete 80% of the curriculum.  And part of that curriculum is met with the sports/pt activities you do.  If you are not allowed to participate, you may be putting your own graduation credit at risk - and it would be shame to go through all of encampment but not receive credit because you chose not to bring something that simple.

You mandate the under garments a cadet is allowed to wear? Isn't that going a bit far?

Lol you read too much into my reply, what I meant was essentially - if someone knowingly did not bring an item on the list (in my mind I was think items like vollleyball knee pads etc) then they would not participate. I was talking about the basic idea of purposely not bring gear, not undergarments. Next time I will be sure to specify my generality lol

[davidsinn]

That would almost certainly depend on what was missing and how hard it would be to replace it.

If you have some examples, we might be able to speculate more.

Hahahaha, well tx wing requires sport supports and I don't really care to bring those.

When I was encampment commander and this happened, the cadet was not allowed to participate.  Remember you have to complete 80% of the curriculum.  And part of that curriculum is met with the sports/pt activities you do.  If you are not allowed to participate, you may be putting your own graduation credit at risk - and it would be shame to go through all of encampment but not receive credit because you chose not to bring something that simple.

You mandate the under garments a cadet is allowed to wear? Isn't that going a bit far?

Lol you read too much into my reply, what I meant was essentially - if someone knowingly did not bring an item on the list (in my mind I was think items like vollleyball knee pads etc) then they would not participate. I was talking about the basic idea of purposely not bring gear, not undergarments. Next time I will be sure to specify my generality lol

The thing that gets me is that list has athletic supporter on it. That's too far in my mind. Even V-ball kneepads is a bit far. You can play without them. I wouldn't buy a pair just for encampment. If kneepads are so important that you wouldn't allow a cadet to participate without them then you really should supply them.

[Nathan]

The thing that gets me is that list has athletic supporter on it. That's too far in my mind. Even V-ball kneepads is a bit far. You can play without them. I wouldn't buy a pair just for encampment. If kneepads are so important that you wouldn't allow a cadet to participate without them then you really should supply them.

A cadet doesn't NEED deodorant, either. Or a toothbrush. Or soap. Or glasses.

Or, for that matter, BDU's. The basic uniform for any cadet is blues. And there's no reg that says you can't do PT in blues.

Would you have an issue mandating any of these?

[davidsinn]

The thing that gets me is that list has athletic supporter on it. That's too far in my mind. Even V-ball kneepads is a bit far. You can play without them. I wouldn't buy a pair just for encampment. If kneepads are so important that you wouldn't allow a cadet to participate without them then you really should supply them.

A cadet doesn't NEED deodorant, either. Or a toothbrush. Or soap. Or glasses.

Or, for that matter, BDU's. The basic uniform for any cadet is blues. And there's no reg that says you can't do PT in blues.

Would you have an issue mandating any of these?

All I'm saying is I was a kid once too and vollyball is not that dangerous that you should be benching a cadet because they didn't want to/couldn't afford to buy a single use item. If you feel it is that dangerous then you should provide the necessary PPE as part of your ORM and not rely on the cadet to bring them. As far as undergarments that's a personal thing and no one should be mandating what kind a person can wear. I was a high school athlete not that long ago so I'm not totally talking our of my FPOC.

[Nathan]

All I'm saying is I was a kid once too and vollyball is not that dangerous that you should be benching a cadet because they didn't want to/couldn't afford to buy a single use item. If you feel it is that dangerous then you should provide the necessary PPE as part of your ORM and not rely on the cadet to bring them. As far as undergarments that's a personal thing and no one should be mandating what kind a person can wear. I was a high school athlete not that long ago so I'm not totally talking our of my FPOC.

So your argument is that cadets shouldn't be forced to bring athletic protectors because it's embarrassing?

I don't think it's a huge issue. Even at COS, we had to wear the protective gear. No, volleyball isn't that dangerous. But asking cadets to bring a bit of protection just in case also isn't really asking much. So if you can make the activity safer (a good thing) without much of a detriment, then you say we shouldn't do it because cadets shouldn't have to be embarrassed when the leaders see a piece of equipment they were ordered to bring?

[davidsinn]

All I'm saying is I was a kid once too and vollyball is not that dangerous that you should be benching a cadet because they didn't want to/couldn't afford to buy a single use item. If you feel it is that dangerous then you should provide the necessary PPE as part of your ORM and not rely on the cadet to bring them. As far as undergarments that's a personal thing and no one should be mandating what kind a person can wear. I was a high school athlete not that long ago so I'm not totally talking our of my FPOC.

So your argument is that cadets shouldn't be forced to bring athletic protectors because it's embarrassing?

I don't think it's a huge issue. Even at COS, we had to wear the protective gear. No, volleyball isn't that dangerous. But asking cadets to bring a bit of protection just in case also isn't really asking much. So if you can make the activity safer (a good thing) without much of a detriment, then you say we shouldn't do it because cadets shouldn't have to be embarrassed when the leaders see a piece of equipment they were ordered to bring?

I'm saying that in all of the sports I ever played that I never wore one because I didn't like them. That was a personal choice. I don't think you should mandate an item that the cadet may never use again when the potential gain in safety is so small. If your ORM matrix requires a specific piece of safety gear for the activity to proceed then the onerous is on the activity to provide that piece of gear.

An example: If your encampment has the cadets swim 50m in deep water and you have cadets that can't swim, then you need to provide appropriate PFDs. You shouldn't try and require the cadet to bring them when they may never be around deep water again.

[Cool Mace]

At NCC Drill comp. back in '03 all the teams had to bring their own knee pads to play vollyball. It's part of the comp. and no one said anything about it. I know I liked having them when I dove for the ball on a hard court. 2 bucks at walmart? No big deal. I'm sure they can find that money in the couch.

Sir, with all due respect, I think you're reading too far in to this.

[davidsinn]

Sir, with all due respect, I think you're reading too far in to this.

Maybe. But I have had enough cadets that had enough trouble affording dues that buying knee pads would be a problem.  My wife just took command of another unit and some of those cadets are in just as bad of shape. Remember encampment is a mandatory part of the program so efforts should be made to keep it inexpensive. Buying two dozen pairs of pads and rotating them through the teams and then reusing them year to year would make the per cadet cost almost nil.

[Nathan]

I'm saying that in all of the sports I ever played that I never wore one because I didn't like them. That was a personal choice. I don't think you should mandate an item that the cadet may never use again when the potential gain in safety is so small. If your ORM matrix requires a specific piece of safety gear for the activity to proceed then the onerous is on the activity to provide that piece of gear.

An example: If your encampment has the cadets swim 50m in deep water and you have cadets that can't swim, then you need to provide appropriate PFDs. You shouldn't try and require the cadet to bring them when they may never be around deep water again.

No, if you have a cadet who can't swim, the cadet doesn't get in the part of the pool that is too deep. I've never heard of an encampment that required cadets to complete a swim for completion, but if such a requirement was necessary, it would be noted in advance. And cadets who can't swim, if they want to get in the deep end of the pool, would need to learn how to swim, bring their own equipment, or not go.

Come on, you can't put ALL of the responsibility on the senior members. The staff is responsible for ensuring the safety of the cadets, but that doesn't mean that they are responsible for providing equipment necessary to ensure that safety. All it means is that certain equipement is mandated, and if the cadets don't bring it, then they can't safely participate, and therefore, don't get to participate.

They don't bring canteens? They don't get to stay. They don't bring tennis shoes? They're either running in boots, shelling out money to a gracious senior member who will make a Wal-Mart run, or going home. They didn't bring appropriate equipment for sports? They're not going to play sports.

It's not a foreign concept. When encampments CAN provide, then all power to them. But the cadets are expected to be responsible for meeting the seniors halfway. I have no problem going out on a mission with a complete n00b to SAR, but I'm not going to keep a whole second set of gear just in case the n00b doesn't remember something. I'll teach the n00b about how to use his equipment, but I'm not going to buy it for him.

If it has been determined that cadets need the equipment to participate safely, then they wear it. Just like they'll wear tennis shoes for PT. Just like they'll wear a canteen on their PT at all times. They'll bring what the staff says they'll need to participate, or they don't get to participate. Seems pretty simple to me. It's not up to the cadet to run a personal risk assessment on an activity they didn't help plan and decide that they don't need certain pieces of equipment just because they didn't use it for their non-CAP activities.

BTW: Have you used knee-pads for any sport? You can't just "reuse" them. If they're a little too tight, you can't move. If they're a little too big, they won't stay on. You have to find ones that fit you. And you're seriously saying that encampments should reuse athletic supporters?

And having encampments shell out money to buy equipment for every cadet is only going to drive encampment costs UP, not down. The cadets are going to be paying for that equipment anyway. They might as well buy it themselves and make sure that they're getting something that fits and that they can personally afford.

[Eclipse]

Encampment, to my chagrin, is not a mandatory part of the program.

I gotta go with Nathan on this, for the most part.

[davidsinn]

Encampment, to my chagrin, is not a mandatory part of the program.

I gotta go with Nathan on this, for the most part.

It's required for Mitchell. If you don't promote you get 2b'd. I'd consider that mandatory.

BTW: Have you used knee-pads for any sport? You can't just "reuse" them. If they're a little too tight, you can't move. If they're a little too big, they won't stay on. You have to find ones that fit you. And you're seriously saying that encampments should reuse athletic supporters?

No, I have not worn kneepads for a sport. I played soccer where knee pads are specifically forbidden. There are only 12 people on the court for volleyball at a time. I'm sure you can stock proper sizes and reuse them and amortize the cost over many years. I'm saying you should not be mandating specific types of undergarments at all. Period.

[Eclipse]

The point about Mitchell has been made before and doesn't really hold any water.

Only about 15% of cadets achieve the Mitchell, and far too few commanders adhere to the guideline regarding progression requirements.
Plenty of cadets have had a successful experience in CAP and never been to an encampment.

As it is today, encampments are a value-add to CAP, not a requirement.

[davidsinn]

As it is today, encampments are a value-add to CAP, not a requirement.

That's a sorry state of things too.

[ElectricPenguin]

Wow, I thought this thread was dead a week ago... 

[Eclipse]

As it is today, encampments are a value-add to CAP, not a requirement.

That's a sorry state of things too.

On this we agree...