Clearly, Cadets are evil......

[Major Lord]

These JROTC cadets must be real hooligans! I am glad that CAP cadets would never engage in terrorism like this!  http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=256917

So here is my question: A CAP cadet gets booted from school under identical circumstances-How is it handled within the Squadron? Ignored? Mocked" 2B? Flogging or keelhauling?

Major Lord

[Major Carrales]

These JROTC cadets must be real hooligans! I am glad that CAP cadets would never engage in terrorism like this!  http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=256917

So here is my question: A CAP cadet gets booted from school under identical circumstances-How is it handled within the Squadron? Ignored? Mocked" 2B? Flogging or keelhauling?

Major Lord

Its a disruption of class, In School Suspension (ISS) would have been the better punishment.   In Texas a disruption of class can result in a citation.

Many of you forget that the purpose of school is education and that it is a teacher's job to instruct the subject matter, not babysit students.   And then, who can forget the parents that enable immature behavior by defending their children even in cases where those children are clearly guilty.  If one's child cannot behave in a public school setting, please...get them out of there and teach them yourself.  I am a big proponent of home schooling despite being a public school teacher.

Both the student and the school should have exercised better judgment.  The student should have refrained from shooting anyone with anything and the School should have handed out a more fitting punishment.

[jeders]

I agree with Joe that ISS/OCS would have been a far better punishment. Considering the number of times that this sort of thing is done every year in every school in the country, I would say that even a 10 day suspension was slightly on the excessive side.

As far as what would be done in CAP, I'd warn the cadet that if he does that in CAP, he's gone. Other than that, let him continue in the program. Perhaps CAP is what will keep him from going down a long bad road.

[Major Carrales]

I agree with Joe that ISS/OCS would have been a far better punishment. Considering the number of times that this sort of thing is done every year in every school in the country, I would say that even a 10 day suspension was slightly on the excessive side.

As far as what would be done in CAP, I'd warn the cadet that if he does that in CAP, he's gone. Other than that, let him continue in the program. Perhaps CAP is what will keep him from going down a long bad road.

I agree, for this sort of thing a warning should be given.  This tests the integrity of the cadet, if the cadet fails to learn from the lesson...or promises to refrain from such acts and does similar again, then they lack integrity, a core value, and we can take more drastic action. 

Now, had this been a genuine assault...the result of something much more serious than "spit wads..." more drastic action should be taken.   

[a2capt]

So much for expungement - even if he does play the game, and finish HS as a home school student, if this is cause for any possible chance at acceptance to the academy ..

So, if it was a real gun, would the punishment been the same, with the same chances of concealment?

Lame.

[Major Carrales]

There is a good chance that the school was "grandstanding" or "making an example," in my opinion.  Either that or that there are some other circumstances that the article does not delve into.  We often tend to make judgments on these things with less facts that is necessary.

[Flying Pig]

STUPID!  I cant tell you how many schools I have been to where school admin has completely gone crazy with this zero tolerance.  What I love the best is when I tell a Vice Principle that there is no crime and that its an internal school issue. Something like a girl taking a fingernail file to school and using it in class and the admin calls it a "weapon".  Even though she was doing her nails.  Or when a student calls another student "gay" or "fag" and some administrator wants a police report.  You can see it takes the wind out of their sails.  They wanted the police to do something so THEY wouldn't look like the bad guy.  They have all the guts in the world to call the police, but when we tell them its not am LE issue, they get this "Oh crap" look on their face.

Kids getting suspended for fighting when they were CLEARLY defending themselves or another weaker student is what irks me the most.  Even when its all caught on a CCTV.  Complete inability to think. And people wonder why in society to people do not want to get involved.  Schools wonder why kids have no respect for them.  I was a campus officer for about 3 months once.  Let me tell you...that was the toughest assignment I think I ever worked.  When a fight came out, I would investigate it.  If it was just two knuckleheads bumping chest, OK, both of you are out of here.  But if it was a case of self defense, or there was a history of bullying or its a case of a student coming to the aid of a weaker student and the school wanted to suspend the victim and the good samaritan, I would write a report documenting that very thing.  I had a football player lay out a little gangster because he was coming to the aid of a weaker kid who was being picked on.  I told the vice principle that this football player needed a parade at lunch time in his honor, not to be suspended.  But.....rules are rules I was told.  Personally, the VP was a non-vertebrate who had a complete inability to see the situation.  He was afraid to make a decision is what it was.    I wrote a very detailed report with several student witness accounts that the football player was in fact the hero.  I made sure mom and dad got a copy for their records.  A Senior getting suspended while applying to colleges is not good timing. 

This spit wad incident? Please.  Unless this kid was continual problem.  However, based on the article, Im thinking emptying trash cans at lunch.  If this were my cadet, I figure I don't work for the school.  I would not apply this "blanket mentality" to my cadet.  I have the ability to think and investigate on my own.  If I believe the school was wrong, I am not going to compound the problem by jumping on the bandwagon that is clearly headed down the wrong road.  If this was a decent cadet, I dont know that I would do much.  My decisions arent going to be based on the actions of another organization that I feel is inept.  Now, if he ends up being criminally charged and convicted of something?  Then my hands start getting tied to a point.  But administrative decisions by a school arent binding to me as a CC.  Especially if there is another side of the coin.

[ZigZag911]

"Zero Tolerance" is an excuse for school administrators and school boards to duck the responsibility of making judgment calls...it conveys a PC sense of 'fairness', in which their is one, ultimate punishment for every crime!

Dumb doesn't begin to describe it.

Can't see any reason for the cadet's squadron to raise this issue with him.

[Major Lord]

I think that "Zero Tolerance" is much more that just an attempt by the Educational Group-Think to duck using reason and apply appropriate judgment. ( Although there is plenty of evidence to suggest that, at least in CA schools, they are nearly absent of both capabilities) The Zero Tolerance Policies quite frequently end in civil litigation against the schools, and if their intent was to avoid complications by applying a single algorithm, it has backfired tremendously.  The example of kids having U.S. Flag Pins characterized as "gang attire", an honor student expelled for "Narcotics" for being in possession of Midol, a Kindergartner being expelled for drawing a picture of his Army-dad carrying a gun, and possession of a Bible viewed as "Hate Speech" are not the most grievous examples. Clearly, public schools have a Political agenda, and it looks like indoctrination is a higher priority than education. If Education is the sole priority of public schools, than thank God we have a lot of Home-school kids in CAP!

Major Lord

[Eclipse]

This is a waste of everyone's time, and an inappropriate punishment considering the actual level of "crime".  In my high school, depending on the class / teacher, this kind of behavior would have resulted in:

1) A book thrown across the room with a hearty "knock it off!"  (Social Studies)

2) A choice between "3 hits (paddle) or 3 hours (detention)I'd take the hits" (Shop)

3) A trip to the dean's office with a similar "offer" of "hours" and the prayer they would not call my dad. (English class)

The bar of expulsion was somewhat higher in my youth, although that was before we started seeing the level of teen angst and violence in
schools which were considered otherwise "safe".

With that said, he's been suspended from school and charged criminally.  You can commiserate with the cadet and his family, but it would be hard to not suspend him from CAP on those grounds.  There's no way he can maintain academic excellence when he's suspended.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

What Flying Pig is talking about is a good example of The Peter Principle on behalf of (too) many school administrators today.

The "zero tolerance" bit is a good example of passing the buck: "I don't want to deal with it, so kick the kid out."

My great-niece's high school expelled a girl for giving another girl (who asked for one) a Midol.

Spitwads?  When I was in high school that was the least of one's worries.  I remember bad actors taking pins and attaching makeshift paper fins to them and shooting THOSE at other kids.

Of course, back in my day, "jocks" were The Exalted Ones and never, ever were held culpable for trouble, and it was always assumed that the small, shy kid getting bullied must have "asked for it" and was usually told to "ignore it."

If it were a CAP cadet doing something like that at school s/he should be watched closely to see if that kind of behaviour exhibits itself in CAP.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

3) A trip to the dean's office with a similar "offer" of "hours" and the prayer they would not call my dad. (English class)

I would rather have had the school call the juvenile authorities than my dad.  I could have stood a better chance of reasoning with them.

[Eclipse]

Not that it changes my opinion, but we should call a spade a spade - these were clearly airsoft pellets, harmless, yes, but not spitwads.

[Eclipse]

3) A trip to the dean's office with a similar "offer" of "hours" and the prayer they would not call my dad. (English class)

I would rather have had the school call the juvenile authorities than my dad.  I could have stood a better chance of reasoning with them.

No kidding - I was telling my kids the other day about how things used to work - Sister would give you a well-deserved smacking with the ruler,
and you didn't come home and tell mom, because rather than sue the school, mom would be wanting to know why you hacked off Sister and
there might be more smacking coming your way!

[a2capt]

Heh, unless you did like me- and grabbed that ruler on the inbound swing, broke it in half, and said "No, you are not going to hit me with that." and put it on the desk.

This scenario would have not nil in the mid-80's, when I was in high school. In fact, if thats all they had to deal with I'm sure they would have been thrilled. I don't remember what they were called, but these guns shot little yellow rubber balls about that same size, and they bounced really good. I used to shoot them from a pistol down the hallway in the house, into a shoebox with tinfoil on it, collect them back up, reload and do it again.

I brought the thing to 3rd grade once, we were all shooting with it during lunch. You know darn well that wouldn't fly here, now. The reason I never brought it back? Most of the ammo got lost and it cost too much to get more

[manfredvonrichthofen]

If I were the one going into that court room I would have three simple items that almost every teacher has in their desk; a Bic pen, one fat rubber band, and a paper clip. I would ask the principle on the stand if she had those items in her desk, if she does I would ask if she thinks she deserves the same punishment. If not I would ask her why not? These items could be more dangerous than what that student had. The pen could easily be taken apart, and the paper clip straightened out and broken into three pieces and the rubber band used as the firing mechanism. Hell, even if the school has a large cutting board with a large bladed handle, the bladed handle could be taken off and used as a sword. Teachers even have large sharp scissors.

This is a large steaming pile of male cow fecal matter! This is a prime example why there should be no school boards making up rules for schools, parents should be coming together to make up the rules. This principal should just be removed from her position, because it sounds like she is just tired of kids.

[a2capt]

Exactly. With that mentality, and thats where it's leading - Wal*Mart is a giant store of weapons. Knives, swords, ropes, mallets, etc. Ridiculous.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Gotta start making the kids eat off of Styrofoam plates with their fingers. We can't give them trays because they could beat each other to death with them, no sporks because of their deadly tongs, no plastic spoons because they can be sharpened on the side walk into shivs. God forbid a teacher would bring in a steak for lunch and have to use a knife on it.

Come on, if you are now over the age of 25 when you were in high school you had friends, or you yourself had a gun rack in your truck's back window, and it was full. People are going nuts about some of the stupidest things in the world, and not doing anything about some of the worst things in the world.

[SARDOC]

Since he was suspended for having a "weapon" capable of firing a projectile in school.  I think the rule should be applied fairly...any teacher or student with a dangerous pen such as the one this student possessed should be suspended for the rest of the year.  Next year they'll use pencils...hmm..you can stab someone with a pencil....Crayons...everyone must use crayons.   Don't even get me started with all those lunch ladies and their straws.

[HGjunkie]

This makes me hate the rules of the public school system more and more. They micromanage this kind of crap but let bigger things fly(I've seen it happen too many times to count).