Saluting without cover?

[spacecommand]

The other day I saluted another Senior member who is higher in grade then me, and served in the Navy. 
They didn't have their cover on and they told me I shouldn't have saluted them because they were not covered "that's how it's done in the Navy". (Regardless of the fact that they were not covered) my understanding is that the Navy/Marine corps do not salute when not covered, however the saluting etiquette in the Army / Air Force (and CAP) is different.

My research further sees that AF/Army might salute even in PT gear however the Navy/Marines do not salute in PT gear.

Any case, I'm not an expert at this matter.  Just wondering what your thoughts might be.  Though saluting other CAP members is generally optional I tend to salute anyone in higher grade then me especially when working around cadets. 


Again from my understanding in the Navy they are taught no cover, no salute, however I think the Air Force (and Army) might be different on that matter.

Also if you have any applicable regulations you might be able to cite, that would be great.

[tsrup]

In the blue-jacket's manual there was a little comic that gave examples of saluting situations and non-saluting situations..

wish I could find it, or if there was an AF version.


Regardless of the above,

If it was outdoors, and you were in uniform and unless it was designated previously as a no-salute zone, then you were in the right.  Navy regulations and procedures have no basis for policy while said senior member is acting as a member of CAP.
All it does is cause a feeling of embarrassment and cause your Squadron commander to raise an eyebrow when you accidentally say "aye sir"....

[jimmydeanno]

From CAPP 151: Respect on Display

When in uniform, salute officers upon recognition, regardless of what the officer is wearing. For example, a uniformed cadet salutes
their squadron commander even if that commander is in civilian attire. In such instances, the commander typically would verbally acknowledge the salute, but not return it.

[Eclipse]

Remind him we're not in the Navy and move on...

[spacecommand]

Another Senior Member mentioned it to them that the AF has different etiquette when saluting , however I wanted to see if I can find any applicable regulations to cite. 

[jimmydeanno]

The "Air Force Etiquette" doesn't matter.  What matters is Civil Air Patrol Etiquette, which can be found in CAPP 151: Respect on Display.

[spacecommand]

Yes true, but I figure CAP would be following more AF tradition then it would the Navy.  I didn't know the Navy/Marines had different saluting traditions then the Army / AF. 

Thanks for the help on CAPP 151. 

[Eclipse]

The Navy has the "fun" of the "Quarterdeck" which can find you wearing a hat and saluting in a steam tunnel under the right conditions...

[FlyTiger77]

Yes true, but I figure CAP would be following more AF tradition then it would the Navy.  I didn't know the Navy/Marines had different saluting traditions then the Army / AF. 

The differences between Army and Navy traditions are legion. For a practical comparison, eat in an Army dining facility and then a Navy wardroom.

[SarDragon]

I can't speak for Army dining facilities, since I've never eaten in one, but I don't recall ever seeing officers eat with the enlisted folks on Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps bases.

A wardroom is officer's country, and, in my experience, a dining facility is for enlisted folks.

Please enlighten me.

[jimmydeanno]

mmmm...Chief's mess is the best anyway, even the officers are jealous.

[FlyTiger77]

I can't speak for Army dining facilities, since I've never eaten in one, but I don't recall ever seeing officers eat with the enlisted folks on Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps bases.

A wardroom is officer's country, and, in my experience, a dining facility is for enlisted folks.

Please enlighten me.

Thank you for proving my point for me.

The Army doesn't have differential dining for officers vs. enlisted. We all eat together. Listing the other differences would totally de-rail this thread.

[a2capt]

I can't speak for Army dining facilities, since I've never eaten in one, but I don't recall ever seeing officers eat with the enlisted folks on Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps bases.

At the times I've been on an AD AFB for CAP functions that the MSA gave us access to the mess, I've always seen both officer and enlisted in the mess hall. Even coming in together sometimes.

[DakRadz]

As corrected by an officer to a MSgt (in jest), "Now, it's not a mess hall, we're the Air Force- it is a dining facility."

And we were in it with one-stripers and oak leaves as fellow diners, with no rank distinction- this was Warner Robins AFB.



My instructors never directed us to salute indoors nor wanted us to when I did Navy JROTC, as they were retired USN.

However, CAP is indeed different. In both CAP and yes, even AFJROTC, the indoor salute is often utilized.
Regardless of USAF tradition, the key guidance on this is found in this post:

The "Air Force Etiquette" doesn't matter.  What matters is Civil Air Patrol Etiquette, which can be found in CAPP 151: Respect on Display.

Which you already took note of, sir. I bring it up to point out that a conveniently sized hardcopy of Respect on Display is in print- my squadron tries to keep each member of the cadet staff supplied with them, so that we can know it well and answer questions as requested. The online version works as well.

[Eclipse]

My instructors never directed us to salute indoors nor wanted us to when I did Navy JROTC, as they were retired USN.

A quarterdeck is not considered "indoors"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterdeck

[DakRadz]

I was going off the OP with the whole "retired Navy member" situation..

[JohnKachenmeister]

Commanding officer to USO chorus girls:  "Dinner is at 1800 hours.  Do you want to mess with the officers or the enlisted men?"

Chorus girl to Commanding officer:  "We don't care, but we'd like to eat first!"

[Patterson]

The other day I saluted another Senior member who is higher in grade then me, and served in the Navy. 
They didn't have their cover on and they told me I shouldn't have saluted them because they were not covered "that's how it's done in the Navy". (Regardless of the fact that they were not covered) my understanding is that the Navy/Marine corps do not salute when not covered, however the saluting etiquette in the Army / Air Force (and CAP) is different.

Back to the OP.......

Your Navy Friend is "wrong" on multiple levels.  Wrong for not following CAP standards, Wrong for calling you out on a "Navy thing" while you are not a Navy Person and wrong for just not returning your salute and forgetting about it.

Next time politely let him now he is in CAP, needs to find a copy of "respect on display" and read it.

[FlyTiger77]

...wrong for just not returning your salute and forgetting about it.

+1

[jeders]

Commanding officer to USO chorus girls:  "Dinner is at 1800 hours.  Do you want to mess with the officers or the enlisted men?"

Chorus girl to Commanding officer:  "We don't care, but we'd like to eat first!"

It's a good thing I finished my coffee just before reading this.

[lordmonar]

The other day I saluted another Senior member who is higher in grade then me, and served in the Navy. 
They didn't have their cover on and they told me I shouldn't have saluted them because they were not covered "that's how it's done in the Navy". (Regardless of the fact that they were not covered) my understanding is that the Navy/Marine corps do not salute when not covered, however the saluting etiquette in the Army / Air Force (and CAP) is different.

Back to the OP.......

Your Navy Friend is "wrong" on multiple levels.  Wrong for not following CAP standards, Wrong for calling you out on a "Navy thing" while you are not a Navy Person and wrong for just not returning your salute and forgetting about it.

Next time politely let him now he is in CAP, needs to find a copy of "respect on display" and read it.

And wrong for being out of doors with out his cover.

[bosshawk]

Kach has a habit of cutting right to the heart of a question.

When in doubt, salute.  If saluted, return it and get on with what you were doing.  I find that a significant number of CAP members have no idea as to how to salute properly or when to salute, so it all becomes a bit comical.

[spacecommand]

I saw no cover but saluted anyway.  I always go  by "when it doubt, whip it out"

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Kach has a habit of cutting right to the heart of a question.

When in doubt, salute.  If saluted, return it and get on with what you were doing.  I find that a significant number of CAP members have no idea as to how to salute properly or when to salute, so it all becomes a bit comical.

That says it about as well as anything.

I automatically put my cover on when going outside and remove it when going inside.

When inside, salute uncovered when reporting to a commissioned or warrant officer senior in grade to you.

When outside, make sure you are covered, and salute all commissioned or warrant officers senior in grade to you.

If in doubt, it is never improper to salute, but it is certainly improper to not salute when C&C's require it.

[Major Lord]

Dear members of the Naval tradition,

We don't have "covers" in CAP. Just hats and caps, sorry. Concur on " in if doubt salute" policy.

Major Lord

[tsrup]

The other day I saluted another Senior member who is higher in grade then me, and served in the Navy. 
They didn't have their cover on and they told me I shouldn't have saluted them because they were not covered "that's how it's done in the Navy". (Regardless of the fact that they were not covered) my understanding is that the Navy/Marine corps do not salute when not covered, however the saluting etiquette in the Army / Air Force (and CAP) is different.

Back to the OP.......

Your Navy Friend is "wrong" on multiple levels.  Wrong for not following CAP standards, Wrong for calling you out on a "Navy thing" while you are not a Navy Person and wrong for just not returning your salute and forgetting about it.

Next time politely let him now he is in CAP, needs to find a copy of "respect on display" and read it.

And wrong for being out of doors with out his cover.

unless it was a corporate uniform or flight line or mess dress...

[JohnKachenmeister]

Wear your cap on the flight line unless you are working around active moving aircraft.

Your head needs protection from the sun. 

[SarDragon]

Nope. Can't do it. Got fanged too many times for doing so.