Air Force Tech Schools...

[NCRblues]

This question is based on a hypothetical thought.  Just trying to see how much interest there is in bettering our organization on the Senior level.

[coudano]

on whose dime, meh...

[mc_delta]

As a cadet that will be transitioning over to the Senior Member program in the next couple of years, I do believe this sounds like a fantastic idea.  I would see it as a great experience to learn what I need to learn for my position in CAP.  Attending a tech school would also allow for the uniformity of Senior Member training. 

[NCRblues]

on whose dime, meh...

Like i said earlier, this is just a hypothetical. This is an idea that was floated by some SM's and active duty members at a local meeting. The logistics have yet to be figured out, just wanted to gauge support.

[RiverAux]

In general I would be interested, but that would depend an awful lot on how much of the curriculum would be applicable to CAP use and the duration of the school.  I could see CAP members finding any public affairs and historian classes potentially helpful and maybe a few others.

[DBlair]

I believe the USCG Aux does this to a certain extent, and are provided a number of funded slots to these schools. As a CGAux member, I remember reading about the various opportunities, and some sounded quite interesting.

...now if only I could get them to send me to scuba or jump school. lol 

[lordmonar]

I think the AFIs and regulations already allow for that....if the individual is willing to pay for it and there is room for the the training pipe line.

That said.....there is probably not a lot of empty seats and who has the money for the 6-8 weeks most tech schools take.

[MICT1362]

I think the AFIs and regulations already allow for that....if the individual is willing to pay for it and there is room for the the training pipe line.

Cite Please.

[AirDX]

I think the AFIs and regulations already allow for that....if the individual is willing to pay for it and there is room for the the training pipe line.

Cite Please.

AFI10-2701

3.18.1. Space Available Training Opportunities. All CAP members may, at their own expense,
attend training programs offered at DoD Installations. FTCA/FECA does not extend to this activity.
Such training will be offered for CAP personnel on a space available basis at no additional cost to the
Government. CAP-USAF/CC and the training activity commander must approve the request prior to
CAP participation. Examples of such programs include aerospace physiological training in accordance
with AFI 11-401, Aviation Management, CISM training, etc..

[PhoenixRisen]

Examples of such programs include aerospace physiological training in accordance
with AFI 11-401, Aviation Management, CISM training, etc..

What...?  No special operations or Security Forces training?   

[NCRblues]

^ the group that put this idea together did not have that kind of training in mind. We were more thinking along the lines of logistics, flight ops, PAO, ext.... and even then only for portions of the Tech schools. (I.E. our PAOs don't need the 2 weeks the AF spends on "PA and military law" or "PA overseas training")

[DBlair]

Examples of such programs include aerospace physiological training in accordance
with AFI 11-401, Aviation Management, CISM training, etc..

What...?  No special operations or Security Forces training?   

I guess my scuba or jump school hopes are out as well. lol

[PhoenixRisen]

^ the group that put this idea together did not have that kind of training in mind. We were more thinking along the lines of logistics, flight ops, PAO, ext.... and even then only for portions of the Tech schools. (I.E. our PAOs don't need the 2 weeks the AF spends on "PA and military law" or "PA overseas training")

I'm well aware that those types of schools aren't within the realm of necessity (or even feasability) for this program.  It was all in jest, hence, the 

[FlyTiger77]

... jump school hopes are out as well. lol

At the risk of derailing the thread, airborne school is highly overrated although the curriculum is fairly straightforward:

Week 1: Separate the men from the boys
Week 2: Separate the men from the fools
Week 3: The fools jump

By the way, I am a 1988 graduate of that particular course at the Benning School for Wayward Boys.

We now rejoin your regularly scheduled discussion thread already in progress.

[RickFranz]

Funny this should come up.  I was a Admin NCO in the USAF, and to think my first rating was in Admin.  At least it gives you a view of how the USAF runs things.

[vmstan]

I'd be all over it.

[MICT1362]

So, Im guessing something like this:

Logistics Officer- Logistics Tech School
Administrative Officers-Admin Tech School
Chaplains-Chaplain Corp Trainig Program
Cadet Programs- Instructor School (Cadence, Drill, C&C Portions ONLY)
Public Affairs- PAO Tech School
Operations Officers- PJ (GSAR portion ONLY!)
Plans and Programs- Plans and Programs Course
Comm Officer- Comm Tech School
Transportation- Transportation and Vehicle Maintenance
Supply Officers- Supply Tech School
Historian- Historian Tech School
IT Officers- Cyberspace Support Tech School
Finance Officers- Finance Tech School

If I'm wrong NCR please correct me.

[PhoenixRisen]

IT Officers- Cyberspace Support Tech School

I'd be all over that...  *drool*

</nerd status>

[sarmed1]

I think from a continuity stand point it would be hard to pick and choose the class portions you need to attend at an official tech school.  What is more realistic, and much more cost effective; CDC's:  basically the either online or hard copy self study courses all airmen do for their respective jobs after the completion of tech school in order to meet the 5 level skill requirement.  (the same way CAP officers can enroll in SOS, ACS etc etc)

Also there a number of on-line/computer based training courses that the various agencies of the AF run that would be useful to CAP members.  I have in the past coordinated access to the USAF med-learn training site for HMRS medics to complete the contingency public health course; one or two told me they took some of the other courses offered as well.   Basically they need to be sponsored into DEERS as a contractor (DEERS enrollment is required for eligibility verification)  the rest is up to the member.

Its an area you should look at; all of the CDC are on the Air University page. 

mk

[SJFedor]

So, Im guessing something like this:

Logistics Officer- Logistics Tech School
Administrative Officers-Admin Tech School
Chaplains-Chaplain Corp Trainig Program
Cadet Programs- Instructor School (Cadence, Drill, C&C Portions ONLY)
Public Affairs- PAO Tech School
Operations Officers- PJ (GSAR portion ONLY!)
Plans and Programs- Plans and Programs Course
Comm Officer- Comm Tech School
Transportation- Transportation and Vehicle Maintenance
Supply Officers- Supply Tech School
Historian- Historian Tech School
IT Officers- Cyberspace Support Tech School
Finance Officers- Finance Tech School

If I'm wrong NCR please correct me.

Why would a CAP Operations Officer go to PJ training? Even just the GSAR portion, what benefit would that give a Ops Officer? You may want to take a look at 20-1 and the description of what an Ops Officer does...

An ES officer, on the other hand, maybe could use it, but even that's a stretch.

[Short Field]

^^^^ LOL - it would be a very rare CAP member who could keep up with the PJ class during the GSAR portion of the class. 

Which specific courses do you want CAP members to be taking?  I see a lot of general "xyz tech school", but which specific courses are you talking about?  Are you recommending our CAP Officers take USAF enlisted tech school courses or USAF officer tech school courses?  If you are recommending USAF officer tech school courses, do you intend to require the CAP officers meet the same education requirements as the USAF officer or do you feel a GED is good enough for a class in which all the USAF officers students have BA or BS degrees?

There is very little in the tech schools that would translate well to CAP.

[RiverAux]

I'm not sure it is still possible, but I thought CAP members did have access to the AF correspondence courses through AFIADL at one point.  The last time I looked at it, there were VERY few that had even remote CAP applications.

As to what is available now and assuming CAP members can access them from their home computers, NHQ and CAP-USAF should go through the course catalog and get pre-approval for CAP enrollment in any that seem relevant. 

[sarmed1]

CAP members still have access.  As of currently there is no complicated (ie CAC reader required) to access the courses (I am currently working on Fire Instructor I from home) but true, very few would have a direct CAP relevance.
mk

[vmstan]

^^^^ LOL - it would be a very rare CAP member who could keep up with the PJ class during the GSAR portion of the class. 

Which specific courses do you want CAP members to be taking?  I see a lot of general "xyz tech school", but which specific courses are you talking about?  Are you recommending our CAP Officers take USAF enlisted tech school courses or USAF officer tech school courses?  If you are recommending USAF officer tech school courses, do you intend to require the CAP officers meet the same education requirements as the USAF officer or do you feel a GED is good enough for a class in which all the USAF officers students have BA or BS degrees?

There is very little in the tech schools that would translate well to CAP.

Probably about as useful as our pilots learning how to fly an F15. Still would be fun

[raivo]

... why?

I can't imagine that any sort of USAF tech school, even one covering a CAP specialty track, would be of much (if any) use to a CAP member. I can't imagine that knowing how to process a travel voucher, or cut someone's PCS orders, is going to help many CAP finance/admin officers.

I mean, the only tech school I've attended has exactly zero relevance to CAP members, so I'm not exactly speaking from experience here, but...

[DBlair]

I have a feeling that attending these schools would be more for fun/personal fulfillment rather than something actually useful to CAP.

[BGNightfall]

I don't see a great deal of direct relevance to CAP by attending Air Force tech schools for a couple of reasons.

- Generally, CAP Senior Members are more actively engaged in the oversight and management of activities than they are in performing the actual actions.  Most USAF tech schools (and in fact, most US military tech schools) are geared to teach the basic minimum to perform a given action, with follow-on training provided at the airman's gaining unit.  Higher-level training is normally accomplished via OJT versus actual formal schooling.

- USAF tech schools are for  training USAF personnel how to perform USAF missions.  Our organization already has a professional development program in place that mirrors our civilian status.  Many of our Senior Members are well-established adults that already have a professional life outside of CAP.  Putting that on hold to attend entry level training for at least one month on their own dime seems like madness, especially when their local unit should already have a professional development program in place to integrate a new member into their framework. 

However, if CAP wanted to expand our role as USAF Aux to include more non-combat missions stateside, then perhaps this would be more worthwhile.  Given the huge draw-downs USAF has experienced over the past 5 years, it would definitely be in their best interests to augment their dwindling, and extremely expensive, workforce with unpaid volunteers. 

[Flying Pig]

1A7X1-USAF Aerial Gunner. Who's going?

[DakRadz]

1A7X1-USAF Aerial Gunner. Who's going?

I think you're the only one who can make an argument that you are qualified, sir.
But take me with you! I'll learn real quick, I'm sure! 

[jb512]

1A7X1-USAF Aerial Gunner. Who's going?

Gotta get through fundies first...  That's the fun weeding out part!

For nerdy fun I like to compare the weight and balance sheets between the 172 and the C-5.   

[Capt Rivera]

Thinking about it... It would be hard to convince the AF to send me anywhere for free to get training I want... But if I could go as a CAP member, get the training, and parlay that into a new AFSC that would be worth the effort...

Also... Being able to reference a particular bit of education related to whatever my next civilian job might be is worthwhile... Graduation from tech school X can demonstrate that I should be able to do X for that civilian institution, i would only need to learn how to do X the way they want me to do it... The question of can I learn to do X will already be answered....

Even if we are hard press to find CAP related uses, it still appears to me that it would be a benefit of CAP worth having for some. I say for some because it would not be for everyone... We have many benefits that are not for everyone to say the least...

[RADIOMAN015]

Many of you need a reality check.  (Probably the same BDU/ABD crowd ).

This is CIVIL Air Patrol.  Military courses are for military training for specific military related positions.  In some case some civilian employees that will perform these jobs will also be sent to the same training courses.

CAP at this point does not supplement AF base staffing.  Most members do not have the time available to take these courses or to obtain upgrade training when at a specific military base.     

I'm sure there's many in the AF are getting a real  good laugh out of this thread (especially those that have met some of the "goofy" senior members we let into the organization).
RM

[PhoenixRisen]

I'm sure there's many in the AF are getting a real  good laugh out of this thread (especially those that have met some of the "goofy" senior members we let into the organization).

And I'm sure that "many" is really a miniscule number, given the average Airman probably has no clue we even exist as an organization, let alone, would they care about (or again, even know about) the discussions that take place on this site.

[Capt Rivera]

Many of you need a reality check.  (Probably the same BDU/ABD crowd ).

This is CIVIL Air Patrol.  Military courses are for military training for specific military related positions.  In some case some civilian employees that will perform these jobs will also be sent to the same training courses.

CAP at this point does not supplement AF base staffing.  Most members do not have the time available to take these courses or to obtain upgrade training when at a specific military base.     

I'm sure there's many in the AF are getting a real  good laugh out of this thread (especially those that have met some of the "goofy" senior members we let into the organization).
RM

RM: It looks like your answer is "No". You would not attend if offered... At the moment there seems to be more people on this thread then not that would be interested for whatever reason, if offered the opportunity... Thanks for sharing your input...  Since your not interested, I invite you to exit the conversation as your input is not constructive to the question at this point.

Thanks for playing the Reality check game... Back to the OP post if there is anyone else who cares to say anything that fits the hypothetical nature of the thread. 

[NCRblues]

Many of you need a reality check.  (Probably the same BDU/ABD crowd ).

This is CIVIL Air Patrol.  Military courses are for military training for specific military related positions.  In some case some civilian employees that will perform these jobs will also be sent to the same training courses.

CAP at this point does not supplement AF base staffing.  Most members do not have the time available to take these courses or to obtain upgrade training when at a specific military base.     

I'm sure there's many in the AF are getting a real  good laugh out of this thread (especially those that have met some of the "goofy" senior members we let into the organization).
RM

i guess you missed this part of the discussion so i will repost it for you sir,

" AFI10-2701

3.18.1. Space Available Training Opportunities. All CAP members may, at their own expense,
attend training programs offered at DoD Installations. FTCA/FECA does not extend to this activity.
Such training will be offered for CAP personnel on a space available basis at no additional cost to the
Government. CAP-USAF/CC and the training activity commander must approve the request prior to
CAP participation. Examples of such programs include aerospace physiological training in accordance
with AFI 11-401, Aviation Management, CISM training, etc.."

Notice it says AFI...not CAPM or CAPR. So it seems the AF disagrees with you. This is something i am working on in my region with CAP-USAF and the idea has been well received all the way up the AETC chain of command. It seems the AF likes the idea of being able to teach us...

It seems that you would like a higher standard to volunteer for your nation, amazing considering we are highly respected in my region and very very well liked by the AF around here

[Eclipse]

CAP at this point does not supplement AF base staffing.

Incorrect.  http://www.capmembers.com/events/vsaf_program/index.cfm

Most members do not have the time available to take these courses or to obtain upgrade training when at a specific military base.

Irrelevant to those that do, and depending on the training, many companies would likely allow for PTO for relevant training that the company doesn't actually have to pay for.  Further to that, a good number of CAP members, especially those in positions of influence as you move up the chain, have "creative" employment - consultants, remote offices, or are simply retired - all would benefit from the opportunity, not to mention the recruiting boost to be able to add these training opportunities to the list of member benefits.
     

I'm sure there's many in the AF are getting a real  good laugh out of this thread (especially those that have met some of the "goofy" senior members we let into the organization).

Yes, like the ones who join a paramilitary organization with a clear military lineage and paramilitary structure and then try their best to convince other members that its really nothing but a HAM and flying club.

[raivo]

i guess you missed this part of the discussion so i will repost it for you sir,

" AFI10-2701

3.18.1. Space Available Training Opportunities. All CAP members may, at their own expense,
attend training programs offered at DoD Installations. FTCA/FECA does not extend to this activity.
Such training will be offered for CAP personnel on a space available basis at no additional cost to the
Government. CAP-USAF/CC and the training activity commander must approve the request prior to
CAP participation. Examples of such programs include aerospace physiological training in accordance
with AFI 11-401, Aviation Management, CISM training, etc.."

Notice it says AFI...not CAPM or CAPR. So it seems the AF disagrees with you. This is something i am working on in my region with CAP-USAF and the idea has been well received all the way up the AETC chain of command. It seems the AF likes the idea of being able to teach us...

It seems that you would like a higher standard to volunteer for your nation, amazing considering we are highly respected in my region and very very well liked by the AF around here

Some RM training courses are relevant to CAP; tech schools, not so much.

[PHall]

I'm sure there's many in the AF are getting a real  good laugh out of this thread (especially those that have met some of the "goofy" senior members we let into the organization).
RM

No, but I am getting a real good laugh at some of the stuff you post.

Oh, and I am Retired Air Force Reserve.