Plane taxiis without pilot, flips

[Spaceman3750]

http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-runaway-plane-flips-text,0,4337127.story

My question is, how could his Cessna Skylane II only be valued at $80k?

[heliodoc]

^^^^

What year?
What condition?
What has the maintenance been like?
What the labor rates?
What if the aircraft is not salvagable? (sp) and quite possibly MORE questions will determine if its only worth 80 K
ETC

AND what is the insurance company going to value the airframe for?  Some of the "twisted" metal could be in need for some serious straightening possibly exceeding the value of the hull or even going further

[cachambliss]

Then just maybe 80k is the limit of the hull insurance the owner purchased.  (In effect the palne was under insured).

[SilverEagle2]

A 1978 Skylane II would be worth about 80K. Not terribly unusual.

Not to mention the plane market has tanked just like the housing. I own a bird and trust me...I would not be trying to sell it right now.

What do you think it should be worth?

[a2capt]

A 1974, prior service CAP 182P went for $42K about 16 months prior. It, too- suffered a similar fate last December.  Too hot, too fast, on a 2160 runway, right off the end and flipped over.

[Spaceman3750]

Hm. Maybe in my own mind I'm simply overvaluing it.

Regardless, flipping your plane is no fun. IIRC, you're supposed to have the throttle engaged slightly for a hand-start but surely not enough for the plane to move so fast that you lose it?

[SilverEagle2]

IIRC, you're supposed to have the throttle engaged slightly for a hand-start but surely not enough for the plane to move so fast that you lose it?

More importantly, you need to have a qualified pilot inside when hand propping too. Should never be done alone as was the case here.

[Short Field]

Parking brake and chocks.....

[DC]

Parking brake and chocks.....

I'm pretty sure the Engine Start checklist for a Cessna says something about setting the parking brake. Or better yet, get someone else to stand on the brakes for you while you turn the prop.

This sort of incident is caused by nothing more than stupidity and carelessness.

[a2capt]

Or the thing tied down, chocked, or something and a way to deal with the tie down or chock in a sensible way.  Like use the tow bar handle from inside the aircraft, to yank the chock rope out of the way after you are in the seat.


The brake handle usually is .. lame. It's okay on a ramp at a fuel pit, for instance, but it can't keep the thing from rolling away under power, unless when you engaged it, you pulled really hard and most people won't do that, thinking they have either pulled enough, or pulling too much will break it. Which I have found with a note "it just came off".. yeah.. okay.

[heliodoc]

Did the article say the guy was 73 yrs old

You know ....starts like an old Cub or Aerknocker (Aeronca)  etc all with the hand propping BITD and the scratch and sniff wasn't going to put up with ....you know ...going to ask for help

You could call it stupidity and carelessness

You could call it senility which could contribute to the above

You could call it armchair piloting from CAPTAlkers...you know...pretty sure it says parking brake in the Cessna POH, should never be alone, etc

You could call it a thread drift when the OP asked about the valuation of the airplane and the thread drift into CAPTalkers...again... talking and issuing how smart the guy is as opposed to how educated CAP members are about flying...it's really great

You could, as well as me, could make the next mistake in an aircraft , in a car, etc  then the CAPpeanut gallery can turn out in force doing some more aviation quarterbacking.......almost as bad or worse than the press who reports this stuf

You could thank God for the press in this case, for CAPTalk, to derail a thread from aircraft valuation to Principles of Airmanship by forum

[Smithsonia]

I am a member of the Black Sheep Squadron. We meet at Centennial. We fly at Centennial. I was on Centennial Airport as a pilot, owner, and hangar owner for 20 years. When a similar accident occurred, Centennial outlawed hand-propping in the early 80s. I think that is still in effect. I am assuming this gentleman will have some problems with the Airport Authority, the Arapaho County Sheriff's Dept., his insurance company, the local group of pilots who he put at risk, and of course members of CAPTALK. 

[Spaceman3750]

for CAPTalk, to derail a thread

Don't worry, it will end up about uniforms shortly.

[heliodoc]

Yep,ED

He's got a handful of problems with all those you mention.

Maybe CAPTalkers here could be dispatched to Centennial pronto......for their NTSB prowess to be included in the fray making them some experts in aircraft accident / incident investigation

Just think of the cost savings CAPers could help in achieving.......lost cost aircraft investigations on the level of NTSB.  Just think of the savings to the US taxpayer(s)!!

[Smithsonia]

Heliodoc;
Of course I have no idea how any of this will work out - but *reckless endangerment* is not too crazy a charge.

* the offense of recklessly engaging in conduct that creates a substantial risk of serious physical injury or death to another person
Reckless endangerment is a misdemeanor but sometimes rises to a felony, as when a deadly weapon is involved.

[Short Field]

You could call it a thread drift when the OP asked about the valuation of the airplane and the thread drift into CAPTalkers...again... talking and issuing how smart the guy is as opposed to how educated CAP members are about flying...it's really great

The OP's question was asked and answered.  Should we lock the thread?

Trade a Plane lists three 1978 C-182s for between 78K to 85K, all low time engines.  $80K would be a reasonable value if the engine was low-time.  A major overhaul could cost $10K - $14K so the price would be lowered to compensate.  A new engine could cost $40K. 

You could, as well as me, could make the next mistake in an aircraft , in a car, etc  then the CAPpeanut gallery can turn out in force doing some more aviation quarterbacking.......almost as bad or worse than the press who reports this stuf

The pilot was not being safe when he hand-propped the airplane without making sure it couldn't take off without him.  That was NOT an accident, that was a foreseeable and logical result of the unsafe action taking place.   I hope that any CAP member would be smart enough not to do that - especially since CAPR 60-1 prohibits hand starts. 

You could thank God for the press in this case, for CAPTalk, to derail a thread from aircraft valuation to Principles of Airmanship by forum

??

[a2capt]

The OP may have commented on that, but thats not to say a discussion can't take place around the content of the news article that was linked to, as well. So if there is to be that, should a new thread be started, and if you don't wanna participate, then don't?

[heliodoc]

Got it, Short Field...

WE ALL KNOW he was being unsafe.  Was he a CAP member?  Did the person who hand propped the acft read the airport by laws,etc?

Maybe CAP can go on a 60-1 campaign at Centennial Airport and get the buy in from the public....how about someone doing an Aero Ed production?  Kill four birds with one stone.......a safety presentation, an aero ed presentation, and a sign off on a Tech /Master / Senior Aero Ed or Safety Specialty track signoff?

Think that could be done from the CAP membership?  Something that benefits the goodwill of CAP and the GA public rather than lipping off about someone else and their faults and practices.  Just remember to give credit to me for this little suggestion or exercise when thinking it is your idea...  from love it or hate it (CAP) member

Lock the thread?? Do what the mods want...

Can CAPTAlkers come up with any better suggestions rather than chirping about someone else's flying?  Was he wearing the proper safety uniform when he was hand propping his plane??

[tdepp]

for CAPTalk, to derail a thread

Don't worry, it will end up about uniforms shortly.

:clap:  It always does.  Even if the person is a non-CAP member.