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Diversity Committee

Started by Flying Pig, May 11, 2010, 11:48:04 PM

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JC004

Quote from: FW on May 13, 2010, 02:26:06 PM
Being against "diversity" is like being against "safety".   Having a committee to figure out ways to improve our gene pool is a good idea HOWEVER, if it is a front for some political goal, I think it would be a great disservice to CAP and it's members. 

BTW; has anyone read "CAP Insights" on the subject?

Ok, so now I'll shut up.... ;D

I'm against safety.  I figure, everybody else is a safety officer, so why do I need to be one too?  All the safety troubles in 1999 and 2000...I caused them cuz I figured people were being too safe.   >:D

Flying Pig

#41
Quote from: Star-Maker on May 13, 2010, 01:49:42 PM
I'm surprised that people are so strongly against this.  It could be done well or badly, IMO.

What would be wrong with, for instance, improving recruitment efforts among demographics that are underrepresented in CAP?  Maybe this committee can figure out whether there's reasons that these groups are underrepresented that are nobody's fault, but accidents of history that could be fixed (e.g. CAP mostly being advertised by word of mouth in a relatively segregated city).

One potential area that I would think this committee could look into, is socioeconomic diversity.  It costs a lot to actively participate in CAP, at least the ES stuff I've done.  Maybe there are ways to alleviate that.

Personally, I would love to see more women join.  Maybe this is a local thing, but when I go to senior-side squadron meetings, I am the only woman there 90% of the time (the other 10% of the time our Legal Officer is there).  I was the only woman in my mission scanner class.  I was the only woman in my ICS-300 class.  I have been the only woman at a SAREX before, and I was the only woman on my recent ELT-hunting mission.  I'm not sure I've been to a CAP function that was more than 25% women.  Maybe there is no reason that women aren't joining.  But maybe there is one!  And if it turns out to be a legitimate problem or misunderstanding or lack of knowledge that could be fixed, it might increase the size of our talent pool.

Lack of diversity can be self-perpetuating.  A prospective member of [group] looks around and sees very few members of [group] in the local squadrons.  The prospective member starts to wonder if there's something about the organization that drives members of [group] away.  S/he doesn't know that there's anything wrong, and hasn't seen anything wrong in the meetings that s/he has checked out, but s/he perceives an increased risk that something is wrong.  And, since s/he is going to be investing a lot of time, money, and energy in this, maybe s/he decides to find a different service organization where there's not this potential risk.

I largely agree with jimmydeano's post.  Also, I turn up in most of the "underrepresented" classes that he mentions or implies, including INFP.  ;D

Awesome, we could have a CAP version of a free lunch program.  All of us who can afford the regular rates still get to pay and those of us less fortunate can get discounted rates on Encampment, Airplane Hourly rates, etc.  Wait, then the rest of us would get stuck paying the bill for the other members who cant.....Am I noticing a trend?
Perhaps if its important to them, individual Squadrons could work out scholarship type programs to sponsor cadets to activities.  No, those scholarships go to the best cadets, not just the cadets with no money so that wouldn't work either.  Seniors don't get scholarships in my book.  If your financial position prevents you from participating, either scale back your participation to an affordable level, or work on improving yourself. 

Oh Darn..  No matter how you slice it, someone has to pay for it.  The day I have to start footing the bill for another adult to participate, Im done.

JC004

Quote from: Flying Pig on May 13, 2010, 02:41:34 PM
Awesome, we could have a CAP version of a free lunch program.  All of us who can afford the regular rates still get to pay and those of us less fortunate can get discounted rates on Encampment, Airplane Hourly rates, etc.

Or we could just use it as yet another reason to put a high priority on alleviating burdens on our membership.  HOWEVER, you can give me this discounted airplane hourly rates.  Just me, though.   ;D

AirAux

Well, to shoot jimmydeanno's eloquence in the foot, what are INFP's and ISTJ's??  And to mess with Star-Maker, looking at your signature stuff, it looks like you are active in CAP and have been in for a little while.  Why haven't YOU recruited more females??  I would think you would be the perfect recruiter for this.  Why aren't women joining?  You should be in the perfect situation to either know or find out.  The reason the old white haired white men are so numerous on the higher levels is that generation is the one that has given the most over the years and continues to do so.  CAP has aged with them.  Most of the younger me-gen's are too busy asking, "What's in it for me?" instead of what can I do to help.  I see no discrimination in CAP and see no reason for a diversity committee made up of a hand-picked crew of cronies with a particular agenda in mind.  This is unneccessary.  As they said in The Losers, "Don't start none, won't be none.".   

jimmydeanno

Quote from: AirAux on May 13, 2010, 03:19:30 PM
Well, to shoot jimmydeanno's eloquence in the foot, what are INFP's and ISTJ's??

Myers-Briggs personality types.  For others unfamiliar:

Quote
As an ISTJ, your primary mode of living is focused internally, where you take things in via your five senses in a literal, concrete fashion. Your secondary mode is external, where you deal with things rationally and logically.

ISTJs are quiet and reserved individuals who are interested in security and peaceful living. They have a strongly-felt internal sense of duty, which lends them a serious air and the motivation to follow through on tasks. Organized and methodical in their approach, they can generally succeed at any task which they undertake.

ISTJs are very loyal, faithful, and dependable. They place great importance on honesty and integrity. They are "good citizens" who can be depended on to do the right thing for their families and communities. While they generally take things very seriously, they also usually have an offbeat sense of humor and can be a lot of fun - especially at family or work-related gatherings.

ISTJs tend to believe in laws and traditions, and expect the same from others. They're not comfortable with breaking laws or going against the rules. If they are able to see a good reason for stepping outside of the established mode of doing things, the ISTJ will support that effort. However, ISTJs more often tend to believe that things should be done according to procedures and plans. If an ISTJ has not developed their Intuitive side sufficiently, they may become overly obsessed with structure, and insist on doing everything "by the book".

The ISTJ is not naturally in tune with their own feelings and the feelings of others. They may have difficulty picking up on emotional needs immediately, as they are presented. Being perfectionists themselves, they have a tendency to take other people's efforts for granted, like they take their own efforts for granted. They need to remember to pat people on the back once in a while.

ISTJs are likely to be uncomfortable expressing affection and emotion to others.



QuoteThe reason the old white haired white men are so numerous on the higher levels is that generation is the one that has given the most over the years and continues to do so.

Is that anything like giving themselves about 13 trillion in tax breaks for the last 40 years, establishing handout programs that are poised to completely consume our nation's income in about 30 years?  The only thing I see boomers giving us is debt.  Boomers are very much about themselves - hate to tell you.

Those same "old white haired men" also managed to spend CAPs endowments on a racecar, fail to institute proper fundraising methods, and only seem to focus on uniforms and ribbons while spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on destination meetings to do so.

QuoteCAP has aged with them.  Most of the younger me-gen's are too busy asking, "What's in it for me?" instead of what can I do to help.

The only reason that CAP has "aged with them" is because of them.  If they're in charge and have been, then we can definitively point to them as the reason for everyone one of our shortcomings, no?

Harvard Business Review, this month, has an article about mentoring and leading Gen-Xers and Millennials.  It notes that Millennials are the most civic minded, selfless generation since the WWII gen.  Of course your perspective is going to be different because you view them as "being about themselves" because they refuse to blindly follow someone just for the sake of following them.

They do this because your generation has created environments where you can't be truly loyal to something because that something will always view you as expendable.  The same article gives a great example.  A gen-xer is given the opportunity for promotion within a company.  They don't show any signs of being excited because they know there is a stipulation.  The boss says, "But you'll have to relocate to Topeka."  Instead of taking the promotion, the gen-xer quits. 

You see that as only being interested in themselves.  In reality, the Gen-Xer has seen how your generation uses them as a means to an end with layoffs (unlike in your time growing up) actually meaning that you'll never be rehired.  So, gen-xer moves all the way out to Topeka and then gets there just in time for a re-org that gets them layed off.  I suppose you would say that they should be happy that they have a nice apartment in Topeka.

It also points out that the boomers like to train Gen-Xers for a position and then hire their children. 

QuoteI see no discrimination in CAP and see no reason for a diversity committee made up of a hand-picked crew of cronies with a particular agenda in mind.  This is unneccessary.

Diversity does not equate to discrimination.  CAP isn't racist and has good anti-discrimination policy.  We have folks of varying backgrounds, but statistically, they're pretty much all the same people with different backgrounds. 

People need to stop the "affirmative action" perspective, because that isn't what it is.

I don't understand how finding ways to include more people in our organization is a bad thing.
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

JC004

Quote from: jimmydeanno on May 13, 2010, 04:25:16 PM
QuoteCAP has aged with them.  Most of the younger me-gen's are too busy asking, "What's in it for me?" instead of what can I do to help.

The only reason that CAP has "aged with them" is because of them.  If they're in charge and have been, then we can definitively point to them as the reason for everyone one of our shortcomings, no?

Harvard Business Review, this month, has an article about mentoring and leading Gen-Xers and Millennials.  It notes that Millennials are the most civic minded, selfless generation since the WWII gen.  Of course your perspective is going to be different because you view them as "being about themselves" because they refuse to blindly follow someone just for the sake of following them.
...

I'm going to have to agree with jimmy on this one.  This was a HUGE topic at the National Conference on Volunteering and Service last year.  It was heavily discussed and I've been spending a lot of time studying it and working in this area since.  It's easier for me because I am one.  There is a massive generational gap in CAP - in some units more than others (wings included, maybe especially). 

AirAux

#46
So, if these are the points on the agenda:

8) The establishment and maintenance of fair promotion and command opportunities for ethnic and gender-specific members of the Civil Air Patrol.

9) An assessment of pre-command staff and activity assignments of ethnic and gender-specific members of the Civil Air Patrol.

10) An assessment of command selection of ethnic and gender- specific members of the Civil Air Patrol.

14) The existence and maintenance of fair promotion, assignment, and command opportunities for ethnic and gender-specific members of the Civil Air Patrol at the levels of, company and junior grade, field and mid-grade, and general officers.

How these are not to be construed as "affirmative action" if there is not a discrimination problem in CAP at the present time??  These are unneccessary if we are not discriminating now.. 

JC004

What is with this terminology?  "gender-specific" - isn't most everyone of a specific gender?

AirAux

Perhaps not as we now have the transgender species.. I wonder what the quota will be on them?? 

RADIOMAN015

Quote from: FW on May 12, 2010, 01:51:10 AM
This is an interesting thread.  I was a spectator at the winter NB meeting when this concept was introduced by our national commander.  I have no objection to a diverse membership and, of course, a diverse leadership.  However, as has been said in earlier threads, what is our current demographics in relationship to the populations where our units are located?  Do we need to start units in areas which are underserved?  Do we try to recruit in areas where minority populations are more prevalent?  Can the school programs serve to increase the diversity of our membership?  I would like to think these kind of questions will be dealt with in committee discussions. 

The questions you present above, may not have in reality a good answer.  The key issue is members time available & money to form new units.   Also I hate to say this but even the Armed Forces found some zip codes in large cities are not cost effective to recruit from because of the high dropout rate prior to first duty station.   

Unfortunately we can't save everybody (or get everyone to join CAP to mirror the population diversity) and those involved currently with inner city school programs will tell you its' a real challenge.

RM

Star-Maker

Quote from: AirAux on May 13, 2010, 03:19:30 PM
And to mess with Star-Maker, looking at your signature stuff, it looks like you are active in CAP and have been in for a little while.  Why haven't YOU recruited more females??

Working on it.  :D  I've got a couple of friends who are interested, after hearing me talk about it.  Both are undergrads, so I'll press them further after finals are over.

Quote from: AirAux on May 13, 2010, 05:32:08 PM
Perhaps not as we now have the transgender species.. I wonder what the quota will be on them?? 

Just to clarify, transgender people do have a gender.

Quote from: Flying Pig on May 13, 2010, 02:41:34 PM
Awesome, we could have a CAP version of a free lunch program.  All of us who can afford the regular rates still get to pay and those of us less fortunate can get discounted rates on Encampment, Airplane Hourly rates, etc.  Wait, then the rest of us would get stuck paying the bill for the other members who cant.....Am I noticing a trend?
Perhaps if its important to them, individual Squadrons could work out scholarship type programs to sponsor cadets to activities.  No, those scholarships go to the best cadets, not just the cadets with no money so that wouldn't work either.  Seniors don't get scholarships in my book.  If your financial position prevents you from participating, either scale back your participation to an affordable level, or work on improving yourself. 

Oh Darn..  No matter how you slice it, someone has to pay for it.  The day I have to start footing the bill for another adult to participate, Im done.

I was under the impression that seniors who have achieved a senior rating in a specialty track can already get some CAP scholarships: http://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/opportunities/scholarships/index.cfm

But I was more thinking along the lines of, is there anything we can do to make CAP cheaper for everyone?  That would encourage socioeconomic diversity.  Maybe there is not, but maybe there is, in which case, I bet a lot of members would appreciate it regardless of wealth.

Or, to look at the other side of the coin, maybe people assume that CAP is more expensive than it actually is, and/or that certain costly optional things are mandatory, and don't join for that reason.  If that were a problem, it could be fixed by marketing.
"The star-maker says 'It ain't so bad.'" - The Killers

GTL, GTM1, UDF, MRO

CUL(T), MS(T), MSA(T)

AirAux

There is a time when the gender of the transgender is in a state of trans and therefore of a neutral or perhaps pleural gender.  This state can last for quite some period of time depending upon finances and procedures.  It ain't an overnight miracle.. and to be truthful, I am not sure it is ever fully corrected or completed.. It's so hard to correct God's work.. To put it biologically, it is never as perfect as God could have done if he hadn't messed up in the first place (Forgive me Father, for I am only quoting others here)..     Oh, PSS, Thank you for the recruiting effort, keep it up..

A.Member

#52
Quote from: jimmydeanno on May 13, 2010, 04:25:16 PMHarvard Business Review, this month, has an article about mentoring and leading Gen-Xers and Millennials.  It notes that Millennials are the most civic minded, selfless generation since the WWII gen.  Of course your perspective is going to be different because you view them as "being about themselves" because they refuse to blindly follow someone just for the sake of following them...
And for additional perspective, the following are excerpts about Millennials/Nexters (born 1982 - 2000) from some generational training material I have:
Quote
Nexters were born into technology, first using computers as toddlers[1]. Their parents were very focused on them and tended to over-plan their lives...

...Their fun-loving parents indulged them as children, giving them a role in family purchasing and travel decisions as never before seen. Nexters are seen as self-absorbed, with a stronger sense of entitlement then Xers. Having grown up as latchkey kids and children of divorce they are independent, competitive, eager to spend money, and place enjoying life over work. Nexters are seen as optimistic, confident, social, and tolerant[1]...

...Nexters are collaborative and prefer to have several mentors. They are effective in teams with strong leadership; however they do not like to be micromanaged. Having been bombarded by stimuli their entire lives nexters can multitask well[1]...

... They also perform best with structure and may not relate well to the independent Xers and boomers; however nexters do have affinity with seniors...

...Nexters prefer to have time to orient to a new job. Training should create a clear picture of the work environment, both positives and negatives[1]...

...Nexter learning shares the same major obstacle as Xers' learning; it's expensive... Nexters may not learn and apply skills as quickly as the organization needs if given too much discretion on learning speed. The follow-up exercises require the involvement of others, taking them away from executing their core role jobs. However, the biggest disadvantage to this learning method is one shared by all those previously suggested: it doesn't bring the four workplace generations together under one cohesive learning strategy...

Common Attributes
Common Attribute: Need to multitask to be engaged/Need constant audio/visual stimulation to be engaged (A,C,D)
Perception: Flighty, not paying attention, not accountable.

What this means for employers

  • Using PowerPoint, printed handouts and one way lectures do not impress millennials – see the employer as non-innovative (c)
  • If stimulation and rewards are not present in training, job performance could suffer (d)
  • Learn better to quicker paced, high interaction training that provides choices. (d)
  • Leads to selective hearing based on the abundance of images/resources.
  • Employers also need to train employees the perception of their multi-tasking: That listening to your iPod or texting at a meeting could be perceived as a lack of respect and offensive to others. (g)
  • Train them on technology etiquette – what is expected of them and what they can expect from others
  • According to a study by Spherion (staffing firm in FL) – "90 percent of 18-24 year olds feel that listening to an iPod while working improves their job satisfaction and productivity"

jimmydeano: 

I don't necessarily disagree with your points - they are good ones.  However, I see absolutely no need for a 'Diversity Committee', particularly in the way it's been communicated thus far, to address those points - nor will it.   As it stands, the Diversity Committee communication states (my emphasis):
QuoteThe committee shall conduct a comprehensive evaluation and assessment of CAP's current demographics and its policies and practices that provide opportunities or erect barriers to the recruitment, retention and advancement of women and minorities. The committee shall produce a plan with specific, measurable, actionable, realistic, and time sensitive goals to achieve a membership and leadership proportionally representative in gender, race, and ethnicity of the general population of the United States in the Civil Air Patrol.
What does that sound like to you?  It sounds like a different objective than the one you suggest. 

Furthermore, as someone pointed out earlier, it continues on to essentially define the make-up of this committee so as to ensure that it's comprised of those same old white guys.  A diversity council with a non-diverse committee.  Cool.

...or perhaps when they say "Senior members with outstanding diversity credentials", they really mean "women and minorities"?

Big thumbs down on the whole idea.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

RADIOMAN015

Quote from: FW on May 12, 2010, 11:43:20 AM
After reading the above description about the committee, I think I understand the true nature of it's existence.  If I am right, the answer will be coming in the next 5 or six weeks..... I will say nothing more on this topic. :-X

Didn't retired USAF Brig Gen Wilma Vaught also make a presentation recently to the board on "diversity" :o

Interestingly, when BG Vaught was the Commander of Military Entrance Processing Command, she was a regular visitor to our processing station in Baltimore where I was one of the officers assigned to this joint service activity, since she maintained her home in the Washington D.C. area even while station at Great Lakes NB IL.  The officer staff on two ocassions went to lunch and supper with her.  She was a fine officer who was very perceptive about the organization she lead and always kept the 65 processing locations & two sector commands on their toes :clap:

General Vaught is now primarily involved with "Women In Military Service For America Memorial" and you all might want to take some time to read her biography.  I think this will give you an idea about what her presentation about "diversity" was all about.
RM
           

JC004

A. - not a bad summation you quoted.  I've done better than they, though.   >:D  Where is it from?

Spike

Non-Profits receiving FEDERAL MONEY have to show a diversity breakdown and provide their "non0discrimination action plan" to get OBAMA Money now.

Come on people, do none of you read the daily papers, watch the news tickers on FOX, MSNBC, CNN etc??

This is all about CAP continuing to get federal funding, nothing more and NOTHING LESS.




AirAux

So, Spike, you're saying that we are going to develop an affirmative action plan and that's all?  No implementing that plan or anything disasterous??  I guess Obama will go right along with that, huh?  You don't really believe that do you??

alamrcn

Quote from: Spike"non0discrimination action plan"

So... Can we then just add a bullschmit "Non-discrimination Statement" to the end of our bullschmidt "Safety Pledge" that's already required to be said at every meeting/activity and call it good? I'd like federal funding to continue OR even improve! :)

And please... The title of "President" should also be used when reffering to our current, or any past Commander in Chief here. Don't let this jack the thred, I'm just saying it's the proper thing to do.



Ace Browning, Maj, CAP
History Hoarder
71st Wing, Minnesota

Spike

^ What US Code section states "citizens will address the President as "President"??  Guess I just got used to saying the name of the person because everybody and their Mother would just say "Bush" a few months ago.......

Makes you think.........

davidsinn

Quote from: Spike on May 24, 2010, 05:37:29 PM
^ What US Code section states "citizens will address the President as "President"??  Guess I just got used to saying the name of the person because everybody and their Mother would just say "Bush" a few months ago.......

Makes you think.........

He's not my commander in chief since I'm not in the military. Yes he is the president but I just say the man's name. It's quicker. I do that for all of the presidents weather I'm a fan of them or not.
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn