CAP members to get Army awards

[RiverAux]

For those wondering about occassionally putting CAP members in for Air Force awards when appropriate:

From CAP News Online:

Iowa Wing officers to receive rare honor from Army

5 recognized with Commander's Award for Public Service
November 13, 2006

IOWA -- The adjutant general of Iowa will present the Department of the Army Commander's Award for Public Service on Tuesday to the Iowa Wing's Col. Ralph Tomlinson, Lt. Col. Mike McCoy, Maj. John Halbrook, Maj. Doug Jansen and Capt. Roger Elliott.

Tomlinson will also be presented with the Department of the Army Outstanding Civilian Service Award. 

Maj. Gen. Ron Dardis, the adjutant general, will preside over the ceremony and CAP National Commander Maj. Gen. Antonio J. Pineda will participate.

The ceremony is believed to mark the first time these awards have been conferred upon CAP officers and the first time Army medals will be pinned on CAP chests since World War II.

The officers are being presented with thee awards because of their efforts and support of the re-organization of the Iowa Wing over the past two years.

[MIKE]

Even so, I don't think they can technically be worn on the CAP uniform.

[BillB]

If Maj Gen Pineda was there, you can bet your bippy the army awards can be worn.

[Nick Critelli]

Way to go Col Tomlinson, Lt Col McCoy, Maj Jansen, Maj Halbrook and Capt. Elliott.  Hoorah  :clap:

PS  I just dropped off Gen. Pineda at the hotel to get ready for the award banquet and asked him that question. Answer YES

[Lamh Dearg]

Outstanding, gentlemen!!

Congratulations!  :clap:

[Pylon]

Excellent work!   :clap:

[thefischNX01]

Congratulations, sirs.  :clap:  If what I've heard about Iowa Wing is true, you more than deserve it.

[MIKE]

If Maj Gen Pineda was there, you can bet your bippy the army awards can be worn.

PS  I just dropped off Gen. Pineda at the hotel to get ready for the award banquet and asked him that question. Answer YES

Figures... I'll go get some salt.  

[A.Member]

Congrats to Col. Ralph Tomlinson, Lt. Col. Mike McCoy, Maj. John Halbrook, Maj. Doug Jansen and Capt. Roger Elliott. 

[TDHenderson]

Congrats to Col. Ralph Tomlinson, Lt. Col. Mike McCoy, Maj. John Halbrook, Maj. Doug Jansen and Capt. Roger Elliott. 

Congratulations to them as well!  I am very lucky to be a part of the Iowa Wing and to serve with these fine Officers. 

[Nick Critelli]

I've just returned from the award ceremony at the Joint Forces HQ.   This is a proud day for CAP.  Here are some of the comments that they made about CAP in awarding the medals (paraphrased)

--- These are awarded to "our brothers in CAP" for their dedication and professionalism in responding to emergencies.

---They  serve our community selflessly, without cost or thought of award.  

While the remarks were directed at the awardees, they were addressed to all in CAP.  CAP is an incredible asset to our communities. By working TOGETHER, in a POSITIVE manner, consistent with our core values we can move CAP into the future by building upon our heritage.  

[NEBoom]

Congrats to Col. Ralph Tomlinson, Lt. Col. Mike McCoy, Maj. John Halbrook, Maj. Doug Jansen and Capt. Roger Elliott. 

Hear, Hear!!  Congratulation gentlemen from your Nebraska Wing friends!

[cyclone]

From CAP News Online:

Iowa Wing officers to receive rare honor from Army

5 recognized with Commander's Award for Public Service
November 13, 2006

IOWA -- The adjutant general of Iowa will present the Department of the Army Commander's Award for Public Service on Tuesday to the Iowa Wing's Col. Ralph Tomlinson, Lt. Col. Mike McCoy, Maj. John Halbrook, Maj. Doug Jansen and Capt. Roger Elliott.

Tomlinson will also be presented with the Department of the Army Outstanding Civilian Service Award. 

Maj. Gen. Ron Dardis, the adjutant general, will preside over the ceremony and CAP National Commander Maj. Gen. Antonio J. Pineda will participate.

The ceremony is believed to mark the first time these awards have been conferred upon CAP officers and the first time Army medals will be pinned on CAP chests since World War II.

The officers are being presented with thee awards because of their efforts and support of the re-organization of the Iowa Wing over the past two years.

So to move this to a more appropriate forum to avoid the 39-1 nazis and their debate....  (shoo, go away)

So what do you think about this?  Iowa Wing officers were presented with these medals by the Adjutant General of Iowa.  This was done in formation with the entire leadership of the Iowa National Guard and the CAP National Commander present. 

The Adjutant General refered to CAP as their "brothers."   

So what the heck did these Iowan's do to get this honor?  Ask questions and you will find out.

Also.  Maj Gen Pineda flew in to Iowa and was briefed for two days by the Wing Leadership, Iowa National Guard, and Iowa Homeland Security and Emergency Management Division on all of the things that are going on in Iowa.

[DNall]

So to move this to a more appropriate forum to avoid the 39-1 nazis and their debate....  (shoo, go away)

See, that's what I mean, good job!

I don't know that there's much to think about it. Oviously it's absolutely outstanding & the officers involved, as well as the unrecognized faces behind/beside them, deserve every bit of this. I hope this is a spring board to expanding what Iowa is doing to the rest of us (with some modification), which sounds promissing given the attention.

[cyclone]

Given Maj Gen Pineda's comments while in Iowa it would seem reasonable to assume that he would like us to help present what was done to other Wings for them to consider making similar strides.

[Pylon]

So to move this to a more appropriate forum to avoid the 39-1 nazis and their debate....  (shoo, go away)

I split the original topic into two, with all posts dealing with congratulations for the awardees and talk of their merit here, and all the discussion on the validity of wearing Army awards on CAP uniforms in a separate discussion thread in the Uniforms section.

I also merged the two previously existing discussions congratulating the awardees ("CAP members to get Army Awards" and "Iowa Wing Recognized") into this one central discussion.

Carry on the discussions in the appropriate areas.  Thanks!  (And congrats again to the Iowa Wing team being recognized!)   

[DNall]

Given Maj Gen Pineda's comments while in Iowa it would seem reasonable to assume that he would like us to help present what was done to other Wings for them to consider making similar strides.

I think that's a reasonable assumption, but I have to say that it seems very wierd to me. I aplaud what Iowa has done to fill the void at the top, but we took Wg patches off for a reason & I would hope this outstanding transformation isn't viewed as something each Wg should pursue individually, but rather something NHQ views as a possiblity to be implemented nationally... I've suggested before that the best vehicle for that would be via 1AF and thru them to the state AGs. That could work out awfully slick. As far as the facilities, I think most of us have access at least quarterly to facilities of that type, probably at the Group level, but at least at the Wg level. The funding & freedom to use it to offset transportation (travel per diem) for regular training purposes is another story. If you scale Iowa's funding up, on a geographical & membership quantity scale, to the rest of the country, that's just not a lot of money total. I think you could get a lot of that from the states if teh AG conf goes well, and I think AU would see the light on backing funding for the rest, plus providing enormous resources for training content. When they get to that content, I think we've tossed around some outstanding ideas to fill out the program. I look forward to seeing CAP develop along this path, and the officers in Iowa have my great appreciation for finally moving CAP in the direction it should be going. Any award along those lines is more than appropriate.

[cyclone]

I'm not concerned with the wear policy in talking about the issue, but rather the status of the award as a spring board from which to seek broader recognition by the AF (and NG in this case) for our services - which has little to do with awards & lots to do with integration - AND, as a spring board to revising the Iowa model to a nationally adoptable system - such as under 1AF in the scenerio I mentioned. None of this has squat to do with if these very deserving individuals can or can't wear Army civil service/civilian decorations on CAP uniforms, I could care less to be honest.

I've heard you mention the idea of using 1AF as a horse to help derive similar benefits as the Iowa Model.  1AF has next to no active relationships with the States.  Their relationships with the State EMA / HLS agencies is pretty non-existent (at least as far as I've noticed).   The State EMA / HLS agencies are the ones with additional missions for us to do, not 1AF.

The reason that partnering with the National Guard (Air and Army) in Iowa was because they are plugged in to the State infrastructure and political scene.   1AF has no additional funds to throw CAP's way, but each state may.  The National Guard has state missions that we have a stake in and have a high probability of participating in.  These state missions are the secret to Iowa's success.  The National Guard is not necessarily generating all the missions Iowa is doing, but they have helped to improve the relationship with Iowa HLSEM so that CAP is thought of for more and more missions.  1AF... not so much.

For example I was involved in an Air Defense mission.   The event occured over the airspace of our state and the state authorities and National Guard had no clue that it was even happening.  Not a great way for 1AF to foster positive relationships with the State authorities.

Anyway, I respectfully disagree about riding on 1AF to do much good for the CAP Wings locally.   However, I'd gladly take whatever missions they want to throw our way whenever those infrequently occur.

[RiverAux]

CAP could have more missions than we could handle if we were better plugged in at the county and state levels.  I agree that the AF has very little else that they could have us do.   Luckily, one of the stated missions of CAP is to provide emergency assistance at the local level.

[fyrfitrmedic]

CAP could have more missions than we could handle if we were better plugged in at the county and state levels.  I agree that the AF has very little else that they could have us do.   Luckily, one of the stated missions of CAP is to provide emergency assistance at the local level.

Very true - IMHO the wings need to step up in order to make these happen.

[Johnny Yuma]

I gotta shout RESPECT! to all of IAWG for this award. I also know Nick Critelli's put a boatload of work into this himself and deserves kudos as well.

The only black eye to all this is Pineda's presence. He only shows up when it makes him look good, a la Katrina and he's created enough grief in NCR recently.

[DNall]

I'm not concerned with the wear policy in talking about the issue, but rather the status of the award as a spring board from which to seek broader recognition by the AF (and NG in this case) for our services - which has little to do with awards & lots to do with integration - AND, as a spring board to revising the Iowa model to a nationally adoptable system - such as under 1AF in the scenerio I mentioned. None of this has squat to do with if these very deserving individuals can or can't wear Army civil service/civilian decorations on CAP uniforms, I could care less to be honest.

I've heard you mention the idea of using 1AF as a horse to help derive similar benefits as the Iowa Model.  1AF has next to no active relationships with the States.  Their relationships with the State EMA / HLS agencies is pretty non-existent (at least as far as I've noticed).   The State EMA / HLS agencies are the ones with additional missions for us to do, not 1AF.

The reason that partnering with the National Guard (Air and Army) in Iowa was because they are plugged in to the State infrastructure and political scene.   1AF has no additional funds to throw CAP's way, but each state may.  The National Guard has state missions that we have a stake in and have a high probability of participating in.  These state missions are the secret to Iowa's success.  The National Guard is not necessarily generating all the missions Iowa is doing, but they have helped to improve the relationship with Iowa HLSEM so that CAP is thought of for more and more missions.  1AF... not so much.

For example I was involved in an Air Defense mission.   The event occured over the airspace of our state and the state authorities and National Guard had no clue that it was even happening.  Not a great way for 1AF to foster positive relationships with the State authorities.

Anyway, I respectfully disagree about riding on 1AF to do much good for the CAP Wings locally.   However, I'd gladly take whatever missions they want to throw our way whenever those infrequently occur.

I understand, and certainly I'm not describing it as a silver bullet to solve all our problems. The issue I have with that characterization of the guard is that it isn't necessary. CAP can plug in equally well in direct partnership w/ state EMA & none of the help or money Iowa is getting. As I've mentioned, Texas is not all that far from such a situaiton now & that's a relationship that has existed for a very long time. The reason it isn't closer is they have tons of similiar resources & don't need us to the extent a state like Iowa has.

Personally, I believe the great benefit to CAP in the Iowa example is not so much the missions produced, but the reorganization & professionalization of the force w/ the help of the guard on their model. I realize the motivation to go down that road was more missions (being relavent) and the change in CAP there makes them more useful to all parties, not just the state. If you stick strctly to the NG as in the Iowa model, it just doesn't work in most states. If it would have then we would have been moved to the NGB as was considered in depth by Air Staff.

I do feel 1AF in conjunction w/ the NGB are a good basis for such a CAP reorganization on a national scale. I don't care so much about the missions. They come to a qualified force in the right place at the right time w/ the right tools. I'm not sure how the technicalities have worked in Iowa to date, but I imagine when they want to deploy CAP on a mission that they do call AFRCC to make the request so AF will pay the bill versus the state, and AFRCC works for 1AF. Wuld it be better if 1AF was better plugged in w/ state EMA/HLS networks & the AGs, for sure, but that's well above my paygrade. All I can say is CAP might be appealing to 1AF as a little lubricant in bridging some of that gap, in that doing this w/ CAP builds those coordination relationships. I think it's definately something worth exploring by all parties.

There's pros & cons to what's going on in Iowa. I like 90% of it & am highly hopeful it'll be the catlyst to change across CAP. However, it can be copied almost no where: for the logistis/funding/size issues for starters; but also, because the need just isn't there in many places & the route taken to get there isn't the most efficient. There is a way to learn from this unique situaiton & carry its lessons to a national scale, but it means making some changes along the way. Respectfully.

[RiverAux]

Although the money IA Wing is getting from the state is nice, it isn't all that unusual.  The most important thing I think they're getting from the Guard is the logistical support that allows them to put 100 members up over night and feed them one weekend a month. 

There are other commercial and even non-profit venues where that sort of thing could be put on but the Wing would have to pay good $ for it. 

[Nick Critelli]

Yuma

I disagree with your comments about Gen. Pineda. He came  at our invitation. It was extremely important that we have  the National Commander in attendance.  It was an affirmance that all of CAP is on board with what we have done.  It confirmed that CAP can bring much more in terms of assets than that which are stationed in Iowa.  But more importantly, it provided an opportunity for The Adjutant General to colloborate with our National Commander. As a result of the colloboration, we will be briefing the TAG's of all 50 states at their Februray meeting with a goal of introducing the opportunities CAP can bring to them. Many don't know about us or of our benefits. 

Regardless of what you think about the National Commander you must give him this: He went out of his way to come here.  All weekend he was at a region conference and flew here immediately afterwards.  He  spent three days here which meant he hadn't been home in a week. He came through for us when asked.

[flyguy06]

Please show me where you see this ribbon? I cant find it.

         
http://www.army.mil/soldiers/jan1998/ribbons/ribbonsleft1.html

[Pylon]

Please show me where you see this ribbon? I cant find it.

         
http://www.army.mil/soldiers/jan1998/ribbons/ribbonsleft1.html

It's because those in the chart you posted are only Department of the Army awards for military personnel.  The aforementioned awards are a Department of the Army award for civilian service.

[flyguy06]

Ohhhhhhhhh. Didnt know there was such a thing. TRhanks for clearing that up for me.

[DNall]

Sure, there's a whole series of awards from each service & the DoD for civil service employees. Under some circumstances those are given to private citizens, just like under some circumstances certain military decorations are also awarded to civilians.

[arajca]

Here's the Army Civilian awards Department of the Army Civilian Medals and Decorations

The Commander's Award for Public Service is here.

[flyguy06]

On what kind of clothing would a civilian wear these medals?

[lordmonar]

A buisness suit, or formal tuxido.

[flyguy06]

Yuma

I disagree with your comments about Gen. Pineda. He came  at our invitation. It was extremely important that we have  the National Commander in attendance.  It was an affirmance that all of CAP is on board with what we have done.  It confirmed that CAP can bring much more in terms of assets than that which are stationed in Iowa.  But more importantly, it provided an opportunity for The Adjutant General to colloborate with our National Commander. As a result of the colloboration, we will be briefing the TAG's of all 50 states at their Februray meeting with a goal of introducing the opportunities CAP can bring to them. Many don't know about us or of our benefits. 

Regardless of what you think about the National Commander you must give him this: He went out of his way to come here.  All weekend he was at a region conference and flew here immediately afterwards.  He  spent three days here which meant he hadn't been home in a week. He came through for us when asked.

Just out of curiosity, how does the National Commander find time to do al this volunteering and travelling around the country? What about his civilian job? I could never get that much time off from my job.

[RogueLeader]

Yuma

I disagree with your comments about Gen. Pineda. He came  at our invitation. It was extremely important that we have  the National Commander in attendance.  It was an affirmance that all of CAP is on board with what we have done.  It confirmed that CAP can bring much more in terms of assets than that which are stationed in Iowa.  But more importantly, it provided an opportunity for The Adjutant General to colloborate with our National Commander. As a result of the colloboration, we will be briefing the TAG's of all 50 states at their Februray meeting with a goal of introducing the opportunities CAP can bring to them. Many don't know about us or of our benefits. 

Regardless of what you think about the National Commander you must give him this: He went out of his way to come here.  All weekend he was at a region conference and flew here immediately afterwards.  He  spent three days here which meant he hadn't been home in a week. He came through for us when asked.

As you say that he came at your request, but do you think that it possible that some was pure politics. 

[RogueLeader]

Just out of curiosity, how does the National Commander find time to do al this volunteering and travelling around the country? What about his civilian job? I could never get that much time off from my job.
[/quote]

I would like to know what job he has in the civ sector.  I would like to get that kind of time off too, was well as the money to do it.

[BillB]

Having worked with MGen Pineda prior to his becoming National Commander, I think many are misjudging his goals for CAP. Granted he has to play the petty politics of the corporate structure, but his aims are to improve CAP as an organization. His state job in Florida allows a flex schedule so he can put the required time in for CAP and still complete the job in Florida.

[cyclone]

Maj Gen Pineda survived a grueling schedule while in Iowa.  We had him out the door at 7 am and back at his room at 11 pm for the three days he was here (which was after 3 days at a conference out east).  He wanted to see what CAP was doing, not just at the high level, but every level.

He commented that he would like to visit a squadron meeting, but unfortunately none of our squadrons in the area met on the evenings he was in town.

I think it wisest for us not to worry about how he can spend this much time helping CAP, but how your wings could lobby the state legislatures to protect your jobs while you are doing CAP.

[DNall]

Having worked with MGen Pineda prior to his becoming National Commander, I think many are misjudging his goals for CAP. Granted he has to play the petty politics of the corporate structure, but his aims are to improve CAP as an organization. His state job in Florida allows a flex schedule so he can put the required time in for CAP and still complete the job in Florida.

Which is all fine, and trust me when I say I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he has to COMMUNICATE!!!! I think he would find if he played straight with people in the field & pulled no punches that he might just fund overwhelming grassroots support, and with that support he can freely tell the NB to stick it & get on with making a force that the members & AF approve of.

[Steve Kuddes]

So MG Pineda thought it was great enough to brief all of the Wing Commanders by conference call.  Anybody know what happened on that conference call?  Do you know who asked a lot of questions and who was rudely told to "shut up" by MG Pineda?
The questions concerned the membership drop of 17% since IAWG started this program.  Do you know how many squadrons have folded and how many members have left CAP or transferred to other Wings?
Before we accept this program as the "cure all" for CAP, we need all of the facts.  How many officers and squadrons did they have at the beginning of the year and how many do they have now?
How about it Lt Colonel Critelli?

[DNall]

Can you call yourself "Spy" and post in a conspiratorial tone? Is that really allowed?

I can't quote you statistics on Iowa, but let me help you understand the situation. CAP now has ~53k members on the books. However, as best as we can determine less than half of those are active & that rate has been consistent for longer than Gen Pineda has been around. The percentages inside that number tend to favor higher cadet participation than senior. If you took an honest look at our membership numbers, you'd find a very different picture. Now if you recall, Iowa moved inactive members out of local units to a reserve status in the Wg holding unit. That left numbers on the books at local units that were actually accurate reflections of what was going on at the ground level. If you look at that honest assessment & see a unit that's had 3-5 adults & 10 kids for the past 15 years, do you need to keep them as a Sq? Is it fair to ask them to complete the work load expected of 20-30 adults & 40-50 kids? Is putting that operations load on them cause them to spend so much time & effort to create a minimum standard performance on paper that they are not able to do justice to the programs in reality & hence snowball teh retention problem? In reality, that's the case with I'd say 90-95% of CAP Sqs in the country. It's completely unfair & inaccurate to judge performance by MML or unit numbers. In point of fact, any serious effort to fix the situation & make CAP strong would begin with getting & operating on accurate metrics.

In short, it seems like you're questioning the validity of what iowa is doing on teh basis of inaccurate to the point of being meaningless numbers, and it wouldn't suprise me at all if Wg CCs did the same cause that's teh best metrics they have to work with.

[RiverAux]

I can't speak to membership numbers, but I do have capwatch downloads for the past year.  They indicate that as of November 30, 2005 Iowa Wing had 1 HQ unit, 1 "ghost/reserve" squadron, 1 legislative squadron, 9 squadrons, and 2 flights.  As of November 30, 2006 all those units except the 2 flights are still in existence. 

I assume the flights were disestablished as separate units and redesignated as "bases" under the Iowa plan. 

[NEBoom]

So MG Pineda thought it was great enough to brief all of the Wing Commanders by conference call.  Anybody know what happened on that conference call?  Do you know who asked a lot of questions and who was rudely told to "shut up" by MG Pineda?
The questions concerned the membership drop of 17% since IAWG started this program.  Do you know how many squadrons have folded and how many members have left CAP or transferred to other Wings?
Before we accept this program as the "cure all" for CAP, we need all of the facts.  How many officers and squadrons did they have at the beginning of the year and how many do they have now?
How about it Lt Colonel Critelli?

If you have anything to say about what's going on in Iowa (good, bad, or indifferent) and you want anyone to treat your comments with any kind of credibility, then you need to grow a pair and put your name behind your accusations.  Taking pot shots at the Iowa Wing's leadershp on an internet message board behind a fake name is not only cowardly, it's stupid as well.  If you think you're changing anyone's mind with crap like this, you're sadly mistaken.  Please do all of us a favor and get a clue/life/job.

To everyone else:  "PLEASE DON'T FEED THE TROLL!!"

[Nick Critelli]

For those of you who are genuine in doing your due diligence on the Iowa program so that you can properly advise your wing's leadership,  let me give you some information regarding wing size, recruiting, retention etc. 

1.  Gross size of a wing only measures the effectiveness of your recruitment program.  All other metrics must be based upon performance or member progression.

2.  Iowa Wing's gross size varies  on a seasonal basis from between 380 to 407. In the late fall early winter we will hit a low, in the late spring we will hit a high.  Right now we are around 390, last month we were at 403  Most of the variance  is due to the cadet program.  There has not been a 17% decrease in membership.  That would mean that 70 members had left. So far we have identified 7 members who have left due to disagreements with the new wing program.  More on them later.  Our retention has been horrible. We used to turn over more that  35% of the Wing annually. That has changed.  We are now ending 2 years of our Officer Training School. 72 have graduated.  We've only lost 1.   


3.  Squadrons come and go. This is a terrible problem. Previously we operated under a rush-to-charter theory. Now we are paying the price.  A squadron with 4 active people is not a squadron.  Consequently we de-chartered two squadrons but kept their physical base which we refer to as a CAP Air Station. The old squadrons were rolled into the All Iowa Squadron.  Another squadron may be headed that way.  The goal is to get them into the AIS, target recruit in the geographical area, get the new recruits strong meeting at the air station and then grow into a full squadron.  It's a process designed to grow and rejuvenate dying squadrons. 

4.  (The following comments apply only to officers and not the cadet program. Cadet recruitment and retention is an entirely different problem which we have yet to solve.) We paid a heavy price for allowing the squadrons to engage general recruitment.   They would recruit but not follow through on the education, training, etc.  Those members usually quit after six months.  Worse yet, they left with a very bad taste for CAP.  That was stupid on our part.  We have not gone to targeted wing based recruitment.  We look at a squadron, assess its operational needs and then try target our recruitment to fill the need.  It doesn't make sense to have a squadron full of pilots when you need ground team members or vice versa. To be a useful tactical tool the squadron must be balanced in some manner.  The manner in which it is balanced depends upon its intended need.  We do the recruiting, education and training. All the squadron commander must do is retain them by providing a positive and active environment.  We even help with that by requiring our squadrons to engage in some form of ES practice outside of the WTA at least one time per quarter...at our cost.  Yes...free flying.  This means that squadron commanders lose some power (recruitment, education and training) but we are a wing based organization not a squadron centric confederation. 

5.  Why did the seven members leave?  Personality conflicts; they wanted it their way.  The problem is they didn't do the investigation, research and due diligence to verify that their way was the way to go.  Their response was a simple "That's  not the way we've done it before."   That didn't cut it over here.  We have lost 4 Lt Col's,  2 Majors and 1 Captain.

6.  Iowa has NO GHOST SQUADRON. We have a very viable IAWG CAP Reserve Squadron (000).  Those in the reserves (including myself next year) take great offense to being called members of a ghost squadron.  Members routinely transfer in and out of the reserve squadron.  I have a heavy trial schedule next year which may limit my CAP time.  I will transfer to the Reserves.  While in the reserve, I will have no CAP obligations, WTA, training, etc.  When things ease up I will transfer back.  If my qualifications remain current I will return at the same level, grade, rank, etc Over here, only active officers remain in a squadron.  This is important because each squadron must meet certain preparedness and readiness standards which require that their members actually do something rather than sit around and drink coffee.  If a squadron is loaded with dead weight (like me next year) its P&R standards will suffer.  The squadron cc or the officer can initiate a transfer to the Reserves. If the officer objects, they remain but are asked to step up their participation.  While in the Reserves, I can come to the WTA or any squadron meeting I wish, I can even be called out on a mission if I am qualified. I just have no meeting or drill obligation.  We are in the process of naming a squadron commander for the Reserves.  That squadron will meet (virtually) via  the Internet.

NICK CRITELLI, Lt Col CAP
Chief of Staff —Iowa Wing

[RiverAux]

Consequently we de-chartered two squadrons but kept their physical base which we refer to as a CAP Air Station.

CAPWATCH identified these two units as flights.  Was that an error?

[Nick Critelli]

Consequently we de-chartered two squadrons but kept their physical base which we refer to as a CAP Air Station.

CAPWATCH identified these two units as flights.  Was that an error?

Yes, unless someone updated it recently. 

[RogueLeader]

There is a member that is, oops- WAS, in our squadron who is currently deployed to Iraq, and was transfered to the Reserve squad.  This was not initiated by him, or those at the squad.  He feels that this was in retribution for not being active in the squad.  We also have a Captain in the squad, as the Seinor Activities Officer who has not been to a meeting for quite some time, about six to eight months.  I had to take her job as TCO so cadets could have a regular tester.  Why is she still in the squad, but not him?  Does this not make sense?

[Psicorp]

There is a member that is, oops- WAS, in our squadron who is currently deployed to Iraq, and was transfered to the Reserve squad.  This was not initiated by him, or those at the squad.  He feels that this was in retribution for not being active in the squad.  We also have a Captain in the squad, as the Seinor Activities Officer who has not been to a meeting for quite some time, about six to eight months.  I had to take her job as TCO so cadets could have a regular tester.  Why is she still in the squad, but not him?  Does this not make sense?

*Concentrates*  Hmmm...Difficult to see, it is.  The Dark Side clouds everything.  Ask your Jedi Council, you should.

[RogueLeader]

*Concentrates*  Hmmm...Difficult to see, it is.  The Dark Side clouds everything.  Ask your Jedi Council, you should.

Hmmm... the Jedi Council it is not.  The Senate, it has become.

[RogueLeader]

About one of the LtCol that left.  He told me "I don't want to serve at wing.  That's why I quit [Wing Safety Officer].  Now they tell me to serve there, or take a transfere to the Reserve Squadron."

[Al Sayre]

While in the Reserves, I can come to the WTA or any squadron meeting I wish, I can even be called out on a mission if I am qualified. I just have no meeting or drill obligation.  We are in the process of naming a squadron commander for the Reserves.  That squadron will meet (virtually) via  the Internet.

Sounds like the Reserves is just the place for those who don't want to/can't serve at Wing.  It gives them a pretty wide range of options and they can still attend squadron meetings...

[MIKE]

Please refrain from referring to squadrons as squads.  Thanks.

[flyguy06]

Having worked with MGen Pineda prior to his becoming National Commander, I think many are misjudging his goals for CAP. Granted he has to play the petty politics of the corporate structure, but his aims are to improve CAP as an organization. His state job in Florida allows a flex schedule so he can put the required time in for CAP and still complete the job in Florida.

I am in law enforcement myself in my state and I dont see how he does it

[flyguy06]

Maj Gen Pineda survived a grueling schedule while in Iowa.  We had him out the door at 7 am and back at his room at 11 pm for the three days he was here (which was after 3 days at a conference out east).  He wanted to see what CAP was doing, not just at the high level, but every level.

He commented that he would like to visit a squadron meeting, but unfortunately none of our squadrons in the area met on the evenings he was in town.

I think it wisest for us not to worry about how he can spend this much time helping CAP, but how your wings could lobby the state legislatures to protect your jobs while you are doing CAP.

I am curious because i want to be able to do the same thing so that I can help my squadron be successful

[DNall]

MajGen Pineda works for state LE agency in Florida. As you can imagine, Florida has pretty strong language on the books for state employees who also serve in volunteer or part-time capacities with ES/Disaster related orgs. To be frank, I think most any large Govt agency would be very open to working with someone that is serving in a capacity as national commander of something like CAP. Then as I understand it he also uses flex time & does some work from the road. What he's billing htem for & what he's not, you'd have to ask him, his accountant, & his boss about.

Nick,
That sounds even better organized than I thought it was. Keep up the good work. I'll be referring some people to talk to you shortly.

[RogueLeader]

While in the Reserves, I can come to the WTA or any squadron meeting I wish, I can even be called out on a mission if I am qualified. I just have no meeting or drill obligation.  We are in the process of naming a squadron commander for the Reserves.  That squadron will meet (virtually) via  the Internet.

Sounds like the Reserves is just the place for those who don't want to/can't serve at Wing.  It gives them a pretty wide range of options and they can still attend squadron meetings...

The deal is that they WANT to serve locally.  They want to have a job at the squadron.  They don't want to just show up.  Being assigned to IA 000, that means that they have no job.  Me, I'm the TCO and PDO, but they can't be as they are not members of that unit.

[DNall]

I imagine if they REALLY want a Sq job, & don't want the responsibilities that come with their level of advancement, that they can fill out a 2a & demote to Captain. They're free to make a decision on if their grade or assignment is more important to them. All the Wing is doing is putting people in units & assigning them jobs appropriate to their experience. To me it sounds like the Wing is trying to put things right & a few people, who liked the anarchy freedom of the old system, now want to have their cake & eat it too. It's jsut a problem in transition, and obviously not a very wide-spread one. As this thing moves forward in time, people who want to stay locally will just not apply for promotion to field grade.

[lordmonar]

I'm not really sure how it is done there in Iowa...but if you are a member of a squadron and they have a job for you.....can't they just transfer you?

Being sent to reserve squadron as far as I can see does not mean you can't participate....in only means that you being managed by the wing and not the squadron.

From what I gathered....90% of the SM's in the wing will be in the 000 squadron and only those who are "leadership" will actually be assigned to the local squadrons (or operations bases).

Since all the SM PD and ES training are done at the central training facility there is no need for most of the local squadron staff duty jobs....just the operations and aircraft management jobs.

Also...getting moved to the reserve squadron is not some sort of punishment (like getting sent to the Leper Colony in 12 o'clock High) but is just a way of centerally maintaining the wing's personnel.

They have already stated that they are moving to a wing centric operations...this is just one of those steps.

I may be wrong...I'm not there....but by the plan I read an the positive posts I have heard about this...I don't see what the problem is.

If you still getting your training, if you are getting a meaningful job (if you want one and are qualified) if you being called out for missions....does it matter what your charter number is?

[flyguy06]

MajGen Pineda works for state LE agency in Florida. As you can imagine, Florida has pretty strong language on the books for state employees who also serve in volunteer or part-time capacities with ES/Disaster related orgs. To be frank, I think most any large Govt agency would be very open to working with someone that is serving in a capacity as national commander of something like CAP. Then as I understand it he also uses flex time & does some work from the road. What he's billing htem for & what he's not, you'd have to ask him, his accountant, & his boss about.

Nick,
That sounds even better organized than I thought it was. Keep up the good work. I'll be referring some people to talk to you shortly.

We all know he works for FDLE. Thats no secret. I am not trying to bash. I am honestly trying to find out how he does it so I can do it also.

[RogueLeader]

I'm not really sure how it is done there in Iowa...but if you are a member of a squadron and they have a job for you.....can't they just transfer you?

Being sent to reserve squadron as far as I can see does not mean you can't participate....in only means that you being managed by the wing and not the squadron.

From what I gathered....90% of the SM's in the wing will be in the 000 squadron and only those who are "leadership" will actually be assigned to the local squadrons (or operations bases).

Since all the SM PD and ES training are done at the central training facility there is no need for most of the local squadron staff duty jobs....just the operations and aircraft management jobs.

Also...getting moved to the reserve squadron is not some sort of punishment (like getting sent to the Leper Colony in 12 o'clock High) but is just a way of centerally maintaining the wing's personnel.

They have already stated that they are moving to a wing centric operations...this is just one of those steps.

I may be wrong...I'm not there....but by the plan I read an the positive posts I have heard about this...I don't see what the problem is.

If you still getting your training, if you are getting a meaningful job (if you want one and are qualified) if you being called out for missions....does it matter what your charter number is?

I'm not saying it is a punishment.  The CAP officer in Iraq, says its a punishment.  I don't really care one way or another.  I thought it relevant to those out there of what SOME people think.  In our squadfron, there are 8 SM's with jobs.

[TDHenderson]

I'm not saying it is a punishment.  The CAP officer in Iraq, says its a punishment.  I don't really care one way or another.  I thought it relevant to those out there of what SOME people think.  In our squadron, there are 8 Sm's with jobs.

It all has to do with Squadron readiness.  The Squadrons in Iowa are now being held responsible by the Wing (who is being held responsible by the State for the overall preparedness of the Wing) for our unit ES readiness, or the ability to respond to a mission.  Officers who are not able to contribute to that ES readiness (for reasons of illness, military deployment, family commitments, etc) reduce that Squadron's readiness factor.  If that factor drops below the set standard the unit is no longer able to respond to a mission.  So to avoid that from happening the Officer (or Unit Commander) should initiate a transfer to the Reserve Squadron (IA-000) until such time as the Officer can return to "active" status with the home Squadron and is able to respond to ES missions.   

If you do not know about this I suggest you ask your Squadron Commander.  They were all briefed on this new program recently and should know the details.  Or come to the WTA this weekend at Camp Dodge and get all of the details.

[RogueLeader]

What about those people who are not ES qualified because of they don't have the training, but are want that particular training? Should they be transfered to 000 until they are ES qualified?  The number of ES qualified people at our squad is only half the roster due to new members and several leaving for other reasons.

[lordmonar]

What about those people who are not ES qualified because of they don't have the training, but are want that particular training? Should they be transfered to 000 until they are ES qualified?  The number of ES qualified people at our squad is only half the roster due to new members and several leaving for other reasons.

From what I understand...that is what happens.  A new member goes through the officer training program and at the end of it, he is level II and has some ES qualification.  He is then assigned to a unit near him that is in most need of his services.  So for his first 6-8 month he would be in the 000 unit.  Again...this is just going off the white paper sent to National and some posts here.

[RogueLeader]

From what I understand...that is what happens.  A new member goes through the officer training program and at the end of it, he is level II and has some ES qualification.  He is then assigned to a unit near him that is in most need of his services.  So for his first 6-8 month he would be in the 000 unit.  Again...this is just going off the white paper sent to National and some posts here.

But thats not the case at my squadron.  We have 8 SM's assigned to our Squad- not 000 with assigned jobs.  I too am there with no ES qual, other than GES and SET.  While not a SM anymore, I still can't get the trainig at the moment.

[DNall]

MajGen Pineda works for state LE agency in Florida. As you can imagine, Florida has pretty strong language on the books for state employees who also serve in volunteer or part-time capacities with ES/Disaster related orgs. To be frank, I think most any large Govt agency would be very open to working with someone that is serving in a capacity as national commander of something like CAP. Then as I understand it he also uses flex time & does some work from the road. What he's billing htem for & what he's not, you'd have to ask him, his accountant, & his boss about.

We all know he works for FDLE. Thats no secret. I am not trying to bash. I am honestly trying to find out how he does it so I can do it also.

Flex time & state leave law that covers some aspects of CAP service, plus they're lenient when you're talking about national command versus staffing encampment or GTL on some mission.

[cyclone]

I'm not saying it is a punishment.  The CAP officer in Iraq, says its a punishment.  I don't really care one way or another.  I thought it relevant to those out there of what SOME people think.  In our squadfron, there are 8 SM's with jobs.

How is it punishment to be transferred to an inactive reserve while he serves his country overseas?  It's not like he is going to respond to a mission or go to a meeting?   His seat is being kept warm while he is gone.

This CAP officer has been fairly inactive since joining the military and has stated that he has been looking for a unit to join locally near his home station for quite some time.  His commander transferred him to the CAP Reserves along with some other inactives that haven't been seen or heard from in a while.  If he showed up at the unit doorstep tomorrow ready to roll he'd get transferred back in to the active unit.

[RogueLeader]

1) I'm not talking about those who just don't show up becasue of work.  Thosse deserve to be moved, but to somebody was ordered to leave!?!    Come on. 
2) That particular CAP Officer has said in no uncertain terms that he felt that transfere was punitive, and that the transfere was not initiated by him him or with his consent.
3) Why is it that only some who don't show up reguarlyare transfered?  Why not all?  Thats what I want to know.

[cyclone]

1) I'm not talking about those who just don't show up becasue of work.  Thosse deserve to be moved, but to somebody was ordered to leave!?!    Come on. 
2) That particular CAP Officer has said in no uncertain terms that he felt that transfere was punitive, and that the transfere was not initiated by him him or with his consent.
3) Why is it that only some who don't show up reguarlyare transfered?  Why not all?  Thats what I want to know.

Unit Assignment and duty position are at the discretion of command.

It's funny that this transferred person has not contacted either his unit commander or wing commander to express any of his concerns.  But yet, his troubles are aired on NOTF?  <I am starting to feel a disturbance in the force>

I think that you need to sit down for a nice chat with your new Unit Commander that authorized the transfer of this guy.  I think you are getting fed a bunch of information from un-informed and disgruntled sources that are using you as a well-intended pawn.  It is obvious from your posts that you just don't have a clue as to what is going on in the Wing and you haven't taken the time to talk in-depth to people who truly know what is going on.  Yet you still continue to post...

Rogue Leader, I recommend you fall out and report to headquarters for briefing!

[Pylon]

The number of ES qualified people at our squad is only half the roster...

We have 8 SM's assigned to our Squad- not 000 with assigned jobs. 

Sorry to be pedantic, but a squad is an Army term which means "1. a small number of soldiers, commonly 10 privates, a staff sergeant, and a corporal; the smallest military unit."

A squadron is a chartered unit of Civil Air Patrol.

One thing that looks like-in my opinion- is to ensure that all new members- Cadets and Seniors alike, know the proper way to communicate with others in CAP.

Proper communication is indeed important. 

[DNall]

I don't know what the deal is with this deployed guy, but I assume he's in the guard/reserves, which means he has a full-time job back home right? And lets see, are they still scheduling him for shifts & sending him a paycheck? Is he somehow telecommuting from Iraq during his off hours? No, I imagine they followed the law & gave him military leave (leave of absence) - a status in which he's moved off the active employee roles but when he comes back he'll ba ble to pick up his job where he left off w/ full seniority & no penalty of any kind. So, how exactly is that different from moving to the All Iowa Reserve Sq, where any member is free to come to meetings of any Sq & participate very actively if they want, but just can't hold a position with them & are not required to keep up with any training they don't have time for. It sounds like a pretty nice deal to me. I wish we did it here.

[isuhawkeye]

Unless I am mistaken this particular member is a soldier with the 101st Airborne division, and is stationed out of Fort Kamble KY.  I'm not sure what the issue is here.

[RogueLeader]

It seems that I have been, shall we say- misinformed, about the nature of a soldiers deployment and the nature of his transfere.  I apologize for the confusion this has created, and I thus retract my statements concerning that.  I have read nothing, or posted anything to the NOTF.  I have been given a breifing about some of the reorginzation in Iowa.  While it is no secret that I do not like all of what is going on, I can accept what is going on as well as give advice to help out.

[RogueLeader]

The number of ES qualified people at our squad is only half the roster...

We have 8 SM's assigned to our Squad- not 000 with assigned jobs. 

Sorry to be pedantic, but a squad is an Army term which means "1. a small number of soldiers, commonly 10 privates, a staff sergeant, and a corporal; the smallest military unit."

A squadron is a chartered unit of Civil Air Patrol.

One thing that looks like-in my opinion- is to ensure that all new members- Cadets and Seniors alike, know the proper way to communicate with others in CAP.

Proper communication is indeed important. 

Yes Sir, You are right, I just was short for time, and my short hand ttok over.  I know I should take more time.  I will try to keep that in mind.

[DNall]

There are appropriate abbreviations.

I think most of us DO want to hear problems going on in Iowa. We'd like to know the good, bad, & ugly of it. However, I'm not sure there would be a lot of tolerance for whinning or simple refusal to change & accept a higher harder standard. Please state your problems, but clarify the situation professionally & you'll be better recieved even supported.

[Major Carrales]

There are appropriate abbreviations.

I think most of us DO want to hear problems going on in Iowa. We'd like to know the good, bad, & ugly of it. However, I'm not sure there would be a lot of tolerance for whinning or simple refusal to change & accept a higher harder standard. Please state your problems, but clarify the situation professionally & you'll be better recieved even supported.

I agree, we need to look at a program objectively to improve it.

[RogueLeader]

Here's a topic that I started that might help with things.  Tell me what you think.
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1172.0

[flyguy06]

I am confused on a few things I am reading I must be in a totally differant Civil Air Patrol then the people on this board. I just got back fro a year tour in Iraq with my Guard unit. I wasnt transfered to any inactive Squadron. I stayed in my sqaudron. We have people on our membership roster that havent been to a meeting in years. They keep renewing their membership every year but are not active.

Also, From the year I have been reading this board. It seems that people think to be in CAP, you HAVE to be invovled in ES. There are many people that join CAP and have no interest in ES. They want to work woth youths or they want to study aerospace. Its NOT a requirement to be ES qualified to be in CAP. I read a post that said you join, go through officer training and get ASSIGNED an ES speicalty. What if you dont want one?


Again, from what I read, this is a differant organiation that I joined. and I have been in CAP since I ws 14 years old cntinuously.

[lordmonar]

In this case we are talking about the Iowa Wing consolidation plan.  The have moved to a wing centric system.  They are moving all the inactive people to a reserve squadron with a 000 charter number.

If you are not in Iowa, none of this applies to you.

Those of us not in Iowa are intrested in how this because we MAY see this system migrate to other wings.

Also, From the year I have been reading this board. It seems that people think to be in CAP, you HAVE to be invovled in ES. There are many people that join CAP and have no interest in ES. They want to work woth youths or they want to study aerospace. Its NOT a requirement to be ES qualified to be in CAP. I read a post that said you join, go through officer training and get ASSIGNED an ES speicalty. What if you dont want one?

This is the only bad thing I can think of by using the Iowa plan.  However, a valid argument could be, that CAP is first and formost an ES organization.  AE and CP are important but are secondary to ES.  With that said, I understand that Iowa is addressing the CP problem and is taking steps to intragrate the CP into their wing centric operations.

[RogueLeader]

One thing that I noticed is that the Iowa Plan is that we are searching hard to get missions- for all parts of the Wing.  As all should be able to tell, a Squadron with few ES qualified members, it is hard to get missions where there is little local ES presense.  Iowa Wing HQ is trying to correct that.  It makes sense, but again, there are some locally don't want it because they don't want ES.  It seems that Wing is going hard on them.  I understand why they are going in the fashion that they are, and again it makes sense for the stated objectives that IAWG has stated.

[flyguy06]

In this case we are talking about the Iowa Wing consolidation plan.  The have moved to a wing centric system.  They are moving all the inactive people to a reserve squadron with a 000 charter number.

If you are not in Iowa, none of this applies to you.

Those of us not in Iowa are intrested in how this because we MAY see this system migrate to other wings.

Also, From the year I have been reading this board. It seems that people think to be in CAP, you HAVE to be invovled in ES. There are many people that join CAP and have no interest in ES. They want to work woth youths or they want to study aerospace. Its NOT a requirement to be ES qualified to be in CAP. I read a post that said you join, go through officer training and get ASSIGNED an ES speicalty. What if you dont want one?

This is the only bad thing I can think of by using the Iowa plan.  However, a valid argument could be, that CAP is first and formost an ES organization.  AE and CP are important but are secondary to ES.  With that said, I understand that Iowa is addressing the CP problem and is taking steps to intragrate the CP into their wing centric operations.

I would disagree that CAP is first and foremost an ES organization. Where did you get that from? When I took level 1 in 1990, they said that ALL three missions were on the same level. (The whole three bladed propellar thing) Again, I joined CAP because I was interested in becomming a pilot in the Air Force. I had no interetes in going to the woods. (ironically I ended up joining the Army in the Infantry and I basically lived in the woods).


I have 23 people in my Suadron. 2 are ES qualiied (me and another guy). Everyone else is here to fly or work with cadets. Although I am ES qualified. I am not active. My main concern is mentoring to youths. No I have to disagree that cadet programs are secondary missions. We spend a lot of money on National SPecialActivities, flight encampments Oshkosh and miliary Orientation rides in military aircraft.

[RogueLeader]

I thought flying, such as Mission Pilot, Observer, and Scanner, were ES Qualities.  Am I wrong?

[flyguy06]

WHen I say flying I mean just flying. I know its wrong, but basically they use CAP as a flying cclub. They dont fly for ES. They get their Form 5 and then do "proficiency" flights. Its a way to get cheap flying time. I disgaree with it, but what can I do?

[davedove]

However, a valid argument could be, that CAP is first and formost an ES organization.  AE and CP are important but are secondary to ES.  With that said, I understand that Iowa is addressing the CP problem and is taking steps to intragrate the CP into their wing centric operations.

Each of the three missions are important, it's just that ES tends to get the most notice.  A lot of people join just to work with cadets, and I'm sure there must be some who are only interested in AE.

[RogueLeader]

Notify your sq/cc or higher if needed.

[flyguy06]

Of what? He's quite aware. Like I said in another thread. You cant MAKE them be involved.

[RogueLeader]

Of what? He's quite aware. Like I said in another thread. You cant MAKE them be involved.

Ok, I didn't know if you CC knew.  If what they are doing is wrong, let the IG know.  Maybe if they get "profficency" flights suspended, they might get more involved to get them back.  Just an idea.

[lordmonar]

I would disagree that CAP is first and foremost an ES organization. Where did you get that from? When I took level 1 in 1990, they said that ALL three missions were on the same level. (The whole three bladed propellar thing) Again, I joined CAP because I was interested in becomming a pilot in the Air Force. I had no interetes in going to the woods. (ironically I ended up joining the Army in the Infantry and I basically lived in the woods).

Right....I know what it says on paper, but we all know that it is not so.  AE has always been the red headed step son of CAP.  Cadet Squadrons may or may not do any ES (in fact overseas squadrons are forbidden to do ES).  Senior squadrons tend to focus on just the flying part of ES.  

Is that the way it should be?  Probably not.  But it is the way it is.

I have 23 people in my Suadron. 2 are ES qualiied (me and another guy). Everyone else is here to fly or work with cadets. Although I am ES qualified. I am not active. My main concern is mentoring to youths. No I have to disagree that cadet programs are secondary missions. We spend a lot of money on National SPecialActivities, flight encampments Oshkosh and miliary Orientation rides in military aircraft.

Okay I agree with you to a point...but...we spend most of our budget on ES related operations/support.  And again we are talking about Iowa again.  They formed their plan to become a better ES provider to their state and to the USAF.  They are focusing on their ES mission.  They have admitted they are focusing on the ES mission and that their CP mission is lacking...and they are working on that.

[Major Carrales]

I have not read all the replies to this, but I would like to make an observation.

Anytime an outside organization recognizes CAP, be it the RED CROSS, Salvation Army and (MOST especially) the ARMED FORCES; I get a bit excited.  It is a sign that we are on task and serve a useful purpose that other see.  It's all about pride.

Iowa...God Bless it!!! 

[flyguy06]

Oh, well, I dont know anything about Iowa. Never been there.

[RogueLeader]

Come and visit some time, we'd be glad to have you.  If you want a ride from the airport to our unit, I could arange it, or even come to our WTA.  That way you can see our new model.

[Nick Critelli]

The gentleman raises a good point about CAP members who do not want to do ES. Regardless of what we want or how we think about CAP we must recognize that it is Congress that tells us who we are and what we are going to do.  The Iowa program recognized that we just started with the premise that federal law makes two demands: 10 USC 9441 (USGov Missions, so called "A" missions) and 36 USC 40302 (state and local missions, so called "B" and "C" missions). We had to establish an foundation that would fund the state organization,  be able to recruit the right people to do the missions, provide adequate training and provide for survivability. Once created the structure, procedure and operating protocol (that you have heard about ad nauseum ) we focused our attention upon  and we were better situated to comply with the statutes.  What our our missions?  We often rattle them off as ES, CP and AE. Actually that is incorrect.  Congress has tasked us in our Title 36 mode with a much broader mission set.  Let me reprint it for you directly from the federal statute itself.  The purpose of CAP is: 36 USC 40302

"(1) To provide an organization to--

(A) encourage and aid citizens of the United States in contributing their efforts, services, and resources in developing aviation and in maintaining air supremacy; and

(B) encourage and develop by example the voluntary contribution of private citizens to the public welfare.

(2) To provide aviation education and training especially to its senior and cadet members.

(3) To encourage and foster civil aviation in local communities.

(4) To provide an organization of private citizens with adequate facilities to assist in meeting local and national emergencies.

(5) To assist the Department of the Air Force in fulfilling its noncombat programs and missions."

That is what the CAP mission is and each Wing has an obligation to ensure that it know the law and has programs in place that will fulfill the requirements of the law.  Do we do a good job of it? Usually we do but it could be better. Some Wings because of limited resources can focus more attention on some rather than other aspects of the missions.  Other Wings are better funded and organized and can focus on all aspects.  Here in Iowa we are building program that will allow us to focus on all aspects of the law.  But it won't happen overnight. We had to triage the problem which required that we first focus on Emergency Services and Disaster Relief.   Our position was that matters involving life and death must take precedence over the promotion of aviation, etc.  But that doesn't mean that we are not mindful of the other aspects of our Title 36 charge.  Our 'ES get strong strategy' has been successful and now we are starting to turn our attention to the other missions.  Next on our list if the Cadet Program.  I am ashamed and embarrassed to admit that only 0.000145% of the young people in Iowa take advantage of CAP's incredible Cadet Program.  Our new Job Number One is to change that.  Keeping in mind that it has been this way for over half a century, I feel it will take us about 2 years to change it.  Hopefully by this time next year we will have doubled our numbers...which is still a miserable showing but it is an improvement.

AE is also a critical federal mission long ignored. We have just settled upon an AE strategy that hopefully will benefit CP and external AE.  It's still in the final stages of development. I had hoped to roll it out by March 07 but that has proven to be overly ambitious. 

So, as you can see there is a heck of a lot more to CAP than Emergency Services. The beauty of it all is that if you can get all three in sync they enhance  one another.

We have a strategy to bring life back into our CP and AE programs.

Nick Critelli

PS to DNall and RiverAux:   Notice I am using different termology, Title 10 and Title 36.  Stick to federal law and all will be made clear. Drop back to October 29, 2000 termology and everything gets confused.  There are NO corporate missions in Iowa.  There are Title 36 missions.  We do not work for corporations.

[RiverAux]

I don't know what you can do about it, but If I was your Wing Commander I would consider your squadron a prime candidate to lose its plane.  I'm sure he could find another unit willing to do ES work with it in addition to cadet o-rides, etc. 

[lordmonar]

I don't know what you can do about it, but If I was your Wing Commander I would consider your squadron a prime candidate to lose its plane.  I'm sure he could find another unit willing to do ES work with it in addition to cadet o-rides, etc. 

Hear! Hear!  And that is who we handle the "flying club" mentality!

Proficiency flight should be to make sure you are ready to fulfil your ES and AE (that is o-ride) responsibilities, not for personal gratification.

[Hammer]

However, a valid argument could be, that CAP is first and formost an ES organization.  AE and CP are important but are secondary to ES.  With that said, I understand that Iowa is addressing the CP problem and is taking steps to intragrate the CP into their wing centric operations.

Each of the three missions are important, it's just that ES tends to get the most notice.  A lot of people join just to work with cadets, and I'm sure there must be some who are only interested in AE.

I'm one of those interested in only AE.  I got enough of CP from three years in AFJROTC.  As far as ES...if i wanted that kind of stuff, I'd join the Arrmy and be a Ranger, and I meant no offence to anyone who's earned the RANGER Tab.

[flyguy06]

I don't know what you can do about it, but If I was your Wing Commander I would consider your squadron a prime candidate to lose its plane.  I'm sure he could find another unit willing to do ES work with it in addition to cadet o-rides, etc. 

Squadrons do not have planes. There is no plane near our squadron. Planes are startegically located throughout the state. People assume that because there is a plane near where they meeet, the aircraft belongs to that unit. Any member in the state can fly any plane inthe state. They dont have to go through any squadron to do that. AT any rate, ther eis NO plane near my unit. We meet in a church

[flyguy06]

I wouldnt necessarily say the AE mission is ignored. We have a strong voice in NCASE and we wrk with local school systems helping to develop AE courses in school. It may not be all sexy and high profile but we make a dent I believe

[lordmonar]

Squadrons do not have planes. There is no plane near our squadron. Planes are startegically located throughout the state. People assume that because there is a plane near where they meeet, the aircraft belongs to that unit. Any member in the state can fly any plane inthe state. They dont have to go through any squadron to do that. AT any rate, ther eis NO plane near my unit. We meet in a church

Well if the pilots from your unit are eating up wing funds to get proficiency training and not maintaining their ES qualifications...then the wing king can ground them just as easily that is instruct all his flight release officers not to allow them to fly and not approve any of the mission numbers.

[flyguy06]

They dont have ES qualifications to maintain.  SOunds like a good idea to me though. But then they would just quit.

[RiverAux]

If there is a group of pilots who do not want to do ES and there is another group of pilots who are willing to do ES as well as other legitimate flights (o-rides, etc.), then they need to go to the bottom of the heap in regards to access to airplanes. 

But then they would just quit.

If they aren't contributing, as you implied, then let them.  There is no advantage to CAP in having them fly CAP planes if they're not serving a real CAP purpose in doing so.  It may make the Wing look better by having more hours put on the plane, but thats about it. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with some units becoming more focused on certain CAP missions over another.  Sometimes you just don't have the manpower or equipment to do it all.  However, if your unit gets that focused on certain activities it has to realize that it will always lose out in competition with other squadrons for equipment and funding when those other squadrons are more well-rounded. 

There are NO corporate missions in Iowa.  There are Title 36 missions.  We do not work for corporations.

CAPR 60-1 designates certain missions as CAP Corporate missions.  We do not work for corporations but we ARE a corporation so using that term is perfectly accurate and appropriate.  You will note that Air Force assigned missions also fit perfectly well into the Title 36 purposes for CAP so using "Title 36 mission" can easily imply an AFAM, so the term is not a synonym for CAP corporate mission.

[DNall]

If there is a group of pilots who do not want to do ES and there is another group of pilots who are willing to do ES as well as other legitimate flights (o-rides, etc.), then they need to go to the bottom of the heap in regards to access to airplanes. 

But then they would just quit.

If they aren't contributing, as you implied, then let them.  There is no advantage to CAP in having them fly CAP planes if they're not serving a real CAP purpose in doing so.  It may make the Wing look better by having more hours put on the plane, but thats about it. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with some units becoming more focused on certain CAP missions over another.  Sometimes you just don't have the manpower or equipment to do it all.  However, if your unit gets that focused on certain activities it has to realize that it will always lose out in competition with other squadrons for equipment and funding when those other squadrons are more well-rounded. 

There are NO corporate missions in Iowa.  There are Title 36 missions.  We do not work for corporations.

CAPR 60-1 designates certain missions as CAP Corporate missions.  We do not work for corporations but we ARE a corporation so using that term is perfectly accurate and appropriate.  You will note that Air Force assigned missions also fit perfectly well into the Title 36 purposes for CAP so using "Title 36 mission" can easily imply an AFAM, so the term is not a synonym for CAP corporate mission.

I got nothing but respect for the guy that does o-flights but sticks to teh ground on the ES side. He should be able to fly prof as well, there's just no SAREx opportunities for him so he's going to go deeper into the pockets to keep up his prof. Obviously your wing Ops folks should be watching the situation & know what's going on. We have a gillion pilots in our wing & that's still a fairly manageable task.

I also got no prob at all with people that don't contribute quitting with boot in butt if need be. I'm quite tolerant of needing to take a step back or even time off. But if you want to abuse the system for your own gain & not pay for it with your direct service in the area those funds were intended for, then later.

I like that they call it "Title 36 missions" Title 10 spells out our federal roles on behalf of the AF. By definition, any service to the AF is done under Title 10. Title 36 just contains our corporate charter, and that's where the latitude to do corporate missions comes from, so let em role. It sounds good. Just so the guard isn't confused about it our title 10/36 roles versus their title 10/32 roles, which could be easily done.