There is no grade of Sergeant (Sgt) in CAP. Our grade is based on the USAF which abandoned Sgt quite a while ago. NCO grades start at SSgt and go to CMSgt.
Quote from: afgeo4 on November 27, 2006, 04:42:18 PMThere is no grade of Sergeant (Sgt) in CAP. Our grade is based on the USAF which abandoned Sgt quite a while ago. NCO grades start at SSgt and go to CMSgt.Go read CAPR 35-5 again.
So it would seem that either the regulation is wrong/hasn't been updated or the Knowledge Base is wrong.
A military (Army, Navy, AF, MC, CG) NCO - active, retired, or discharged- can join CAP and keep their NCO grade if they do not want to become CAP officers. They cannot promote in CAP unless they get promoted in their service. That being said, the NB approved advanced officer grade for SNCO's. This includes NG and Reserve NCO's. IIRC, E-7 gets 1st Lt; E-8, Capt; E-9, Major, after completing Level I and CPPT.If you're not a military NCO, you cannot become a CAP NCO.
Or a SrA today AND a 2Lt in six months. No, I do think it's that the CAP reg has never been updated caus frankly, how many retired E-1 to E-4s to we see that keep their grade. I mean look around and tell me how many total NCOs you see in CAP at all. It just didn't come up. [stuff redacted]
doesnt the senior members ranks start at senior member and then go flight officer, technical flight officer, senior flight officer 2nd lt. etc. so how does one become a CAP NCO?
Quote from: arajca on January 20, 2007, 02:09:22 AMA military (Army, Navy, AF, MC, CG) NCO - active, retired, or discharged- can join CAP and keep their NCO grade if they do not want to become CAP officers. They cannot promote in CAP unless they get promoted in their service. That being said, the NB approved advanced officer grade for SNCO's. This includes NG and Reserve NCO's. IIRC, E-7 gets 1st Lt; E-8, Capt; E-9, Major, after completing Level I and CPPT.If you're not a military NCO, you cannot become a CAP NCO.When did this happen?
what abour retired and current US armed forces officers? can they join CAP at an advanced rank?
Why would someone not want to be a CAP Officer? What advantages are there for not being one, or what disadvantages exist in being one that somebody would opt out of the officer choice?
The pay is the same...
Im payed with learning!!!
Just as a point of information, NHQ Public Affairs is urging public affairs folks to use for all PA purposes the military grade abbreviations in the AP Style book, which are different from CAP's "official" abbreviations. Check the Volunteer for the differences...
Oh, no, we have to talk about common sense again.Internally, on official paper correspondence, the grade abbreviations, as defined in the CAP reg, should be used whenever practical. Conputer generated forms may not comply because somebody got lazy and didn't think about the difference between data stored in a computer, and the paper form. Computer data storage uses the shortest practical abbreviation to minimize the number of bits and bytes in a program, and in data storage.Externally, it may be necessary to adhere to an external set of rules that provides some better consistency among the different abbreviations.Bottom line - it's a situational thing. Do your best to follow the reg when you can, but maintain some flexibility when the situation doesn't allow strict compliance.
And just for the record - media is the plural of medium.
Quote from: SarDragon on June 15, 2007, 09:03:17 PMAnd just for the record - media is the plural of medium.Wait, so all these years I should have been referring to "media of communication" instead of "mediums of communication"? WoW.Dude. That's, like, gramatically paradigm shifting.
Quote from: SarDragon on March 21, 2007, 01:10:10 AMOh, no, we have to talk about common sense again.Internally, on official paper correspondence, the grade abbreviations, as defined in the CAP reg, should be used whenever practical. Conputer generated forms may not comply because somebody got lazy and didn't think about the difference between data stored in a computer, and the paper form. Computer data storage uses the shortest practical abbreviation to minimize the number of bits and bytes in a program, and in data storage.Externally, it may be necessary to adhere to an external set of rules that provides some better consistency among the different abbreviations.Bottom line - it's a situational thing. Do your best to follow the reg when you can, but maintain some flexibility when the situation doesn't allow strict compliance.Concur!It's called communications. You adjust the deliver of your message to the conditions and the listener. Outside communications needs to conform to the standards of the receiver. The media uses APA as their standard so we should use that as well.What is stupid is that we don't just change our regulation to APA as well.
Quote from: lordmonar on March 21, 2007, 01:32:38 AMQuote from: SarDragon on March 21, 2007, 01:10:10 AMOh, no, we have to talk about common sense again.Internally, on official paper correspondence, the grade abbreviations, as defined in the CAP reg, should be used whenever practical. Conputer generated forms may not comply because somebody got lazy and didn't think about the difference between data stored in a computer, and the paper form. Computer data storage uses the shortest practical abbreviation to minimize the number of bits and bytes in a program, and in data storage.Externally, it may be necessary to adhere to an external set of rules that provides some better consistency among the different abbreviations.Bottom line - it's a situational thing. Do your best to follow the reg when you can, but maintain some flexibility when the situation doesn't allow strict compliance.Concur!It's called communications. You adjust the deliver of your message to the conditions and the listener. Outside communications needs to conform to the standards of the receiver. The media uses APA as their standard so we should use that as well.What is stupid is that we don't just change our regulation to APA as well.Just to further confuse things, AP style and APA style are not the same. AP is the documentation and notation style used by the Associated Press. APA is the style manual published by the American Psychological Association for use in a great deal of scientific research literature.
MLA is much better than APA.
Quote from: RogueLeader on June 19, 2007, 11:39:09 AMMLA is much better than APA....and Chicago Manual of Style better than both of those.
Quote from: SARMedTech on June 19, 2007, 05:10:47 AMQuote from: lordmonar on March 21, 2007, 01:32:38 AMQuote from: SarDragon on March 21, 2007, 01:10:10 AMOh, no, we have to talk about common sense again.Internally, on official paper correspondence, the grade abbreviations, as defined in the CAP reg, should be used whenever practical. Conputer generated forms may not comply because somebody got lazy and didn't think about the difference between data stored in a computer, and the paper form. Computer data storage uses the shortest practical abbreviation to minimize the number of bits and bytes in a program, and in data storage.Externally, it may be necessary to adhere to an external set of rules that provides some better consistency among the different abbreviations.Bottom line - it's a situational thing. Do your best to follow the reg when you can, but maintain some flexibility when the situation doesn't allow strict compliance.Concur!It's called communications. You adjust the deliver of your message to the conditions and the listener. Outside communications needs to conform to the standards of the receiver. The media uses APA as their standard so we should use that as well.What is stupid is that we don't just change our regulation to APA as well.Just to further confuse things, AP style and APA style are not the same. AP is the documentation and notation style used by the Associated Press. APA is the style manual published by the American Psychological Association for use in a great deal of scientific research literature.MLA is much better than APA.
Well, the Chicago Manual of Style is in at least its 14th Edition, and has been around since 1906.
Quote from: SarDragon on June 19, 2007, 06:44:20 PMWell, the Chicago Manual of Style is in at least its 14th Edition, and has been around since 1906. For those of you may want to find this style manual, its official name is the University of Chicago Style Manual and I think its now in its 17th or 18th edition.
(The Army uses all 3-character rank abbreviations until you get to the general officer ranks due to the fact that there are only 3-characters allowed in the SIDPERS system).
Maybe because it's regulated. Attention to detail and all.
I probably deserve to be smacked for not only bringing this thread back up, but also for asking this question. Why do some find it horrible to not properly abbreviate rank? What is the problem fir 1LT being in place instead of 1st Lt.? Everyone gets the idea that the person is a first lieutenant. But why are so many people irritated by something so small?
As far as the abbreviation thing, it is something the AF did to differentiate itself from the Army.
That is one reason I have been very disappointed with the phasing out of branch insignia on the ACU's. I am sorry, but a captain in the infantry is very different that a captain in the medical corps.
What about on the CAC card. Mine says CPT (as in Captain). Does an AF CAC card also say CPT, as the CAC program is run through DEERS, I seriously doubt they would differentiate between the services. So based on if it is the same abbreviation scheme by the DEERS (DOD) then that is the greenlight to use it, right?
I will do my best to *unlearn* what over eight years in the Army taught me...but I find the CAP abbreviations idiotic.
You know, with the war on terrorism and things like over 724 square miles of land having just burned in the San Diego area and a whole lot more going on, one would have more to worry about than if Captain was abbreviated as Capt or CPT.
That's my point.
You know, with the war on terrorism and things like over 724 square miles of land having just burned in the San Diego area and a whole lot more going on, one would have more to worry about than if Captain was abbreviated as Capt or CPT.I'm sure that depending on what branch of the service you were in you learned it one way and you still use it that way. If you don't like the way it's abbreviated you can spell it out. I'm sure the services all spell it the same way.
Quote from: Grumpy on November 16, 2007, 03:37:56 AMYou know, with the war on terrorism and things like over 724 square miles of land having just burned in the San Diego area and a whole lot more going on, one would have more to worry about than if Captain was abbreviated as Capt or CPT.I'm sure that depending on what branch of the service you were in you learned it one way and you still use it that way. If you don't like the way it's abbreviated you can spell it out. I'm sure the services all spell it the same way.Glad I don't live in California! In fact, compared to what burns throughout the rest of country, that is a small area. You and the news make it sound like the whole State was on fire. Don't forget California is a desert and that they steal all of their water from other states. Perhaps you can start by stopping illegals from entering through your state. I think I read that one of the California fires was actually started by an illegal Mexican boy anyway!So anyway.......I will use Capt. Thank you everyone for clearing that up for me!
Well, we could carry this on and on. It would be more appropriate to use email. But to bring it back on line, things must be getting better if all we have to worry about is how to abbreviate Captain.
I think you could make the case that someone who was a Sgt (E-4) prior to the elimination of the rank in the USAF would qualify for the CAP grade of Sgt... As long as those persons were not required to revert to SrA, and loose NCO status with the change in structure.
Quote from: MIKE on December 20, 2006, 12:36:11 PMI think you could make the case that someone who was a Sgt (E-4) prior to the elimination of the rank in the USAF would qualify for the CAP grade of Sgt... As long as those persons were not required to revert to SrA, and loose NCO status with the change in structure.As far back as 1959 when I was in the AF they didn't have Sgt rank. E4 was A/1C, the next rank was Ssgt. A person would have had to be in the brown shoe corps (AAF) to be a Sgt.
Quote from: mikeylikey on September 19, 2007, 06:38:02 PMWhat about on the CAC card. Mine says CPT (as in Captain). Does an AF CAC card also say CPT, as the CAC program is run through DEERS, I seriously doubt they would differentiate between the services. So based on if it is the same abbreviation scheme by the DEERS (DOD) then that is the greenlight to use it, right?Air Force CAC cards use the abbreviation Capt.
Today was the 60th anniversery of the establishment of the Department of Defense and the services still don't use 1 system of writing grade between the Army, Navy, and Marines. I would think that with all the forms and publications they put out someone would have decided on one.
Sure they do... all paygrades are written in the same manner. E-1 through O-9
That's why I put both "titles" in my signature block, as per my "user name" is my Army grade, not CAP, as I plan on getting promoted sooner than later....but my retired grade will always stay the same.
I have seen two first hand that were SSgt. They are content with their choice. Just because you do not understand the reasons why, that doesn't mean that they do not have good ones.
Interesting that now they seem to have eliminated the CAP NCO Grade of SGT. I can't imagine anybody wanting to hang on to their enlisted grade if they were below E-7....
I was actually just making an observation because this thread began (in 2006) mentioning the NCO grade of SGT, and apparently that was removed sometime a little bit more recently than when the AF did away with it.
Again, I will refer you to the first page of this thread, where it was cited in 2006.