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CAP Talk  |  Recent Posts
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 21 
 on: Today at 12:04:34 PM 
Started by stratocaster29 - Last post by jb512
I'm not saying that he/she would not be a toolbag - that's a whole different discussion. I'm just saying that being a toolbag is not against regulations.  :D

Maybe that should be General Order #1.

"Don't be a toolbag."

If they had just added that we wouldn't have needed this entire discussion...

 22 
 on: Today at 12:01:27 PM 
Started by stratocaster29 - Last post by jb512
I mean, it's pretty clear, (emphasis mine):

Quote
8.1. USAF-style and Corporate-style Flight Duty Uniform (FDU) Guidance
8.1.1. Authorized FDU.
8.1.1.1. The USAF-style FDU and Corporate FDU (CFDU) are Flight duty includes preparation, preflight, in-flight, post-flight, and other flight related duties associated with aircraft operations. The FDU and CFDU are authorized for wear by personnel who have or previously had a CAP aeronautical rating as defined by CAPR 35-6, Aeronautical Ratings, Emergency Services Patch and Badges, and Ground Team Badges, and/or have a current aircrew mission qualification (mission pilot, transport pilot, observer, scanner, aerial photographer, etc.). Personnel who do not have a current aircrew mission qualification or a current or prior aeronautical rating may be authorized wear of the FDU and CFDU on days when actual flying is planned or anticipated. Wing commanders will determine when FDU and CFDU wear is appropriate.

So:
  • Is authorized functional clothing for wear by individuals who perform aviation particular duties.
  • Is authorized for wear by personnel who have or previously had a CAP aeronautical rating as defined by CAPR 35-6
  • Can be worn by those without an aeronautical rating / aircrew rating when actual flying is planned or anticipated.
  • Can be worn by those with an Aircrew or Aeronautical Rating (no restrictions are given except those outlined in 8.1.2 of the CAPM-39-1 for those WITH a rating)

The problem with this assertion is it negates the need for 1/2 the verbiege - why assert only aero ratings and then
later say assert "anyone" regardless of rating?

That said, don't be the one dude at the squadron wearing a flight suit on a squadron meeting when everyone is in ABU's or Blues. Don't be that toolbag.

This.

It doesn't give blanket authorization though, it says "may be authorized", so that means they still need approval from someone higher up. I wouldn't say that negates any of the verbage above it.

May indicates an acceptable or suggested means of accomplishment (nondirective).

CAPR 1-2 Attachment 7

 23 
 on: Today at 11:59:13 AM 
Started by stratocaster29 - Last post by Eclipse
I'm not saying that he/she would not be a toolbag - that's a whole different discussion. I'm just saying that being a toolbag is not against regulations.  :D

Maybe that should be General Order #1.

"Don't be a toolbag."

 24 
 on: Today at 11:58:44 AM 
Started by stratocaster29 - Last post by DocJekyll
I mean, it's pretty clear, (emphasis mine):

Quote
8.1. USAF-style and Corporate-style Flight Duty Uniform (FDU) Guidance
8.1.1. Authorized FDU.
8.1.1.1. The USAF-style FDU and Corporate FDU (CFDU) are Flight duty includes preparation, preflight, in-flight, post-flight, and other flight related duties associated with aircraft operations. The FDU and CFDU are authorized for wear by personnel who have or previously had a CAP aeronautical rating as defined by CAPR 35-6, Aeronautical Ratings, Emergency Services Patch and Badges, and Ground Team Badges, and/or have a current aircrew mission qualification (mission pilot, transport pilot, observer, scanner, aerial photographer, etc.). Personnel who do not have a current aircrew mission qualification or a current or prior aeronautical rating may be authorized wear of the FDU and CFDU on days when actual flying is planned or anticipated. Wing commanders will determine when FDU and CFDU wear is appropriate.

So:
  • Is authorized functional clothing for wear by individuals who perform aviation particular duties.
  • Is authorized for wear by personnel who have or previously had a CAP aeronautical rating as defined by CAPR 35-6
  • Can be worn by those without an aeronautical rating / aircrew rating when actual flying is planned or anticipated.
  • Can be worn by those with an Aircrew or Aeronautical Rating (no restrictions are given except those outlined in 8.1.2 of the CAPM-39-1 for those WITH a rating)

The problem with this assertion is it negates the need for 1/2 the verbiege - why assert only aero ratings and then
later say assert "anyone" regardless of rating?

That said, don't be the one dude at the squadron wearing a flight suit on a squadron meeting when everyone is in ABU's or Blues. Don't be that toolbag.

This.

It doesn't give blanket authorization though, it says "may be authorized", so that means they still need approval from someone higher up. I wouldn't say that negates any of the verbage above it.

 25 
 on: Today at 11:58:07 AM 
Started by stratocaster29 - Last post by jb512
Another good source is CAPR 1-2 Attachment 7 which has the definition of terms - what is directive, non-directive, etc. The words "Shall, Shall Not, Will, Will Not, Must or Must Not" or "May", "Should".

Unfortunately that's not any more help, as NHQ does not follow it's own guidelines for that in a lot of cases,
and / or has regs that internally conflict with themselves, or conflict with other regs or pamphlets.

On that I agree with you.

 26 
 on: Today at 11:56:37 AM 
Started by stratocaster29 - Last post by jb512
I mean, it's pretty clear, (emphasis mine):

Quote
8.1. USAF-style and Corporate-style Flight Duty Uniform (FDU) Guidance
8.1.1. Authorized FDU.
8.1.1.1. The USAF-style FDU and Corporate FDU (CFDU) are Flight duty includes preparation, preflight, in-flight, post-flight, and other flight related duties associated with aircraft operations. The FDU and CFDU are authorized for wear by personnel who have or previously had a CAP aeronautical rating as defined by CAPR 35-6, Aeronautical Ratings, Emergency Services Patch and Badges, and Ground Team Badges, and/or have a current aircrew mission qualification (mission pilot, transport pilot, observer, scanner, aerial photographer, etc.). Personnel who do not have a current aircrew mission qualification or a current or prior aeronautical rating may be authorized wear of the FDU and CFDU on days when actual flying is planned or anticipated. Wing commanders will determine when FDU and CFDU wear is appropriate.

So:
  • Is authorized functional clothing for wear by individuals who perform aviation particular duties.
  • Is authorized for wear by personnel who have or previously had a CAP aeronautical rating as defined by CAPR 35-6
  • Can be worn by those without an aeronautical rating / aircrew rating when actual flying is planned or anticipated.
  • Can be worn by those with an Aircrew or Aeronautical Rating (no restrictions are given except those outlined in 8.1.2 of the CAPM-39-1 for those WITH a rating)

That said, don't be the one dude at the squadron wearing a flight suit on a squadron meeting when everyone is in ABU's or Blues. Don't be that toolbag.

I'm not saying that he/she would not be a toolbag - that's a whole different discussion. I'm just saying that being a toolbag is not against regulations.  :D

 27 
 on: Today at 11:55:46 AM 
Started by stratocaster29 - Last post by Eclipse
I mean, it's pretty clear, (emphasis mine):

Quote
8.1. USAF-style and Corporate-style Flight Duty Uniform (FDU) Guidance
8.1.1. Authorized FDU.
8.1.1.1. The USAF-style FDU and Corporate FDU (CFDU) are Flight duty includes preparation, preflight, in-flight, post-flight, and other flight related duties associated with aircraft operations. The FDU and CFDU are authorized for wear by personnel who have or previously had a CAP aeronautical rating as defined by CAPR 35-6, Aeronautical Ratings, Emergency Services Patch and Badges, and Ground Team Badges, and/or have a current aircrew mission qualification (mission pilot, transport pilot, observer, scanner, aerial photographer, etc.). Personnel who do not have a current aircrew mission qualification or a current or prior aeronautical rating may be authorized wear of the FDU and CFDU on days when actual flying is planned or anticipated. Wing commanders will determine when FDU and CFDU wear is appropriate.

So:
  • Is authorized functional clothing for wear by individuals who perform aviation particular duties.
  • Is authorized for wear by personnel who have or previously had a CAP aeronautical rating as defined by CAPR 35-6
  • Can be worn by those without an aeronautical rating / aircrew rating when actual flying is planned or anticipated.
  • Can be worn by those with an Aircrew or Aeronautical Rating (no restrictions are given except those outlined in 8.1.2 of the CAPM-39-1 for those WITH a rating)

The problem with this assertion is it negates the need for 1/2 the verbiege - why assert only aero ratings and then
later say assert "anyone" regardless of rating?

That said, don't be the one dude at the squadron wearing a flight suit on a squadron meeting when everyone is in ABU's or Blues. Don't be that toolbag.

This.

 28 
 on: Today at 11:54:31 AM 
Started by stratocaster29 - Last post by jb512
Wing commanders will determine when FDU and CFDU wear is appropriate.

So...members should email the Wing CC each time they go to a meeting and ask if they
can wear a given uniforms?

Or maybe there should be a report that's updated each week so when people get a rating
the Wing CC can access it to be able to respond?

Or...

Wear a flight suit when you're going to be in a CAP plane, and not when you're not.

Your last idea would be an appropriate directive for a wing commander to issue according to the reg.

 29 
 on: Today at 11:53:46 AM 
Started by stratocaster29 - Last post by Eclipse
Another good source is CAPR 1-2 Attachment 7 which has the definition of terms - what is directive, non-directive, etc. The words "Shall, Shall Not, Will, Will Not, Must or Must Not" or "May", "Should".

Unfortunately that's not any more help, as NHQ does not follow it's own guidelines for that in a lot of cases,
and / or has regs that internally conflict with themselves, or conflict with other regs or pamphlets.

 30 
 on: Today at 11:50:41 AM 
Started by stratocaster29 - Last post by DocJekyll
I mean, it's pretty clear, (emphasis mine):

Quote
8.1. USAF-style and Corporate-style Flight Duty Uniform (FDU) Guidance
8.1.1. Authorized FDU.
8.1.1.1. The USAF-style FDU and Corporate FDU (CFDU) are Flight duty includes preparation, preflight, in-flight, post-flight, and other flight related duties associated with aircraft operations. The FDU and CFDU are authorized for wear by personnel who have or previously had a CAP aeronautical rating as defined by CAPR 35-6, Aeronautical Ratings, Emergency Services Patch and Badges, and Ground Team Badges, and/or have a current aircrew mission qualification (mission pilot, transport pilot, observer, scanner, aerial photographer, etc.). Personnel who do not have a current aircrew mission qualification or a current or prior aeronautical rating may be authorized wear of the FDU and CFDU on days when actual flying is planned or anticipated. Wing commanders will determine when FDU and CFDU wear is appropriate.

So:
  • Is authorized functional clothing for wear by individuals who perform aviation particular duties.
  • Is authorized for wear by personnel who have or previously had a CAP aeronautical rating as defined by CAPR 35-6
  • Can be worn by those without an aeronautical rating / aircrew rating when actual flying is planned or anticipated.
  • Can be worn by those with an Aircrew or Aeronautical Rating (no restrictions are given except those outlined in 8.1.2 of the CAPM-39-1 for those WITH a rating)

That said, don't be the one dude at the squadron wearing a flight suit on a squadron meeting when everyone is in ABU's or Blues. Don't be that toolbag.

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