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January 18, 2018, 06:02:33 AM
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CAP Talk  |  Recent Posts
CAP Talk  |  Recent Posts
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 21 
 on: Yesterday at 03:42:20 AM 
Started by cobra6987 - Last post by cobra6987
So, I've been looking more into CAPR 1-2, specifically in regards to directive publications. Right now, only Supplements and OI's can be issued to mandate anything. I've been noticing that most regulations are prohibiting supplements or OI for anything below wing level. Right there, Group and Squadron Commanders no longer have a right to "Establish plans, policies, and procedures necessary to the fulfillment of the CAP mission, which are not in conflict with the directives of higher headquarters." from CAPR 20-1. How can you set policies and procedures without being able to make an OI, Supplement, or Memorandum? This means that any squadrons and groups that have a policy or set procedure have to have the Wing make a supplement saying "members of the XYZ unit will follow these procedures..." and next thing you know, we have 20+ supplements to every regulation. This is exactly what NHQ did NOT want, as they should be kept to an absolute minimum per CAPR 1-2.

Another observation I have is that if everything has to be approved by the NHQ OPR ("All supplements and OIs require NHQ OPR approval prior to issuance." R 1-2), does the Wing/Region actually have power beside "disapprove"? We essentially have Staff Officers confirming that a Command Officer can approve something. So basically, NHQ OPR's are our only people in charge, and our commanders are only liaisons to see if we can do something.

Am I missing something? I've HAVE to be reading this wrong.

 22 
 on: Yesterday at 03:28:33 AM 
Started by NIN - Last post by eehite
This thread strikes me as a perfect summary of why CapTalk is dead. Three pages in and nobody has learned anything, nobody has convinced anyone, and everyone is steamed.

 23 
 on: Yesterday at 01:54:40 AM 
Started by koverman - Last post by MSG Mac
Here in Maryland there is a Wing Board to decide who will get green lighted and you must attend. When I was in Florida Wing the NCSA's were combined with the Cadet of the Year (Airman, NCO, Junior Officer, and Senior Officer). It included a review board, mile run, and a written test.

Every Wing does it differently and by now your Wing should have already sent out notification about their process.

 24 
 on: Yesterday at 01:08:14 AM 
Started by NIN - Last post by etodd

Your choice, I guess, but it's a shame to see folks deliberately isolating themselves from the rest of the membership.

From SAREXs and more, I work with hundreds of CAP members, both Seniors and Cadets. No isolation here.

But, to each his own. The diversity of personality types and varied interests I feel sure is a good thing in CAP.

There is a place in the Squadron for everyone.  :)

 25 
 on: January 16, 2018, 11:34:53 PM 
Started by NIN - Last post by ZigZag911
I'm a big baseball fan.

Major League Baseball requires the manager and coaches to wear uniforms...the only professional sport that does, as far as I know.

Seems a little silly, but then again, why does someone need a tuxedo to wait on tables in an upscale restaurant or play an instrument in a symphony orchestra?

Organizations have customs and traditions, in part, to build group cohesion.

The regs call for all senior members, at minimum, to own  a set of gray & whites.

I'm not clear on what the big deal is against wearing the darn things occasionally, like at award ceremonies, change of command and such.

That is all part and parcel of CAP...if you choose never, ever to participate in anything but your own limited area of interest, you are missing the scope of the experience, which includes getting to know some dedicated, interesting people.

Your choice, I guess, but it's a shame to see folks deliberately isolating themselves from the rest of the membership.

 26 
 on: January 16, 2018, 10:31:12 PM 
Started by NIN - Last post by grunt82abn
OK. I'll throw this personal info out there. I was never in the military. My grandfather was, uncles, and my father was. My father (passed away years ago) had half his back blown off in Korea by a mortar shell and I have his Purple Heart.

I'm not worthy of wearing anything that looks like a real military uniform. I don't feel right about it. I'm a civilian who has a tremendous respect for our soldiers. I'm not worthy. Its a very personal thing, and I don't expect anyone to understand it. Just the way it is 'for me'.

As long as regulations at events I attend say polo is OK ... then thats my choice.
I understand completely!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 27 
 on: January 16, 2018, 10:16:02 PM 
Started by NIN - Last post by etodd

We have formal events where we promote our members, laud and recognize their accomplishments. Events where the level of formality is much higher than a "polo shirt and grey tactical pants." Are you not going to go to an event like that?


I answered that on page one. No, I don't attend the rubber chicken dinners where folks do 'photos ops' getting their awards, etc.  Great for them and those who enjoy it.  Its a wonderful thing. I'm just a little worker bee, happy to stay home and work while others do the formal affairs.  They are following uniform code at the banquet, and I'm following uniform code back at the airplane hangar.  Its all good, all within regs, ... so no reason to jump on us folks that don't wear the dress blues.  :)

Everyone seems to be following the regs, so this whole thread is meaningless ... until such time uniform regs are changed by Hdqs. 

 28 
 on: January 16, 2018, 09:39:16 PM 
Started by NIN - Last post by stillamarine
What I was told (and this came from an AF vet / CAP member) was until 911 in both USAF daily wear and CAP, BDU/ABU was for field work, blues for office. Until 911. Then it was "off with the toga and on with the sagum" and we have remained in battle dress ever since.

No just the USAF.  The majority of our Armed Forces, post 9/11, went to "combat uniforms" all the time.  The Air Force, as a matter of fact, got a lot of flak from their brother and sister services because the AF just kind of kept on "business as usual" for a long time after that.

and a few years back, tried to get back to their "the business men of the DOD" roots with "Blues Mondays."

As the gentleman who was my chief of staff when I was in the Army Cadets (a Navy guy, no less) used to lament: "The Army will get married and buried in ACUs if they thought they could get away with it."

My mentor as a Phase IV cadet and as a young senior was a 20+ year full-time Air Guard guy, and he wore blues to work every day. That was his job, he had no need for BDUs and rifle in his particular billet. He used to tell us "Fatigues is a working uniform, meant to be worn while working, getting dirty, that kind of thing.  Blues is your everyday wear apart from that."

The vast majority of the Marine Corps wore utilities everyday prior to 9/11. At LeJeune we had Chuck Fridays, where we had to wear Service Charlies on Fridays. That sucked. Luckily I was in a deployable unit and we were exempt from that most of the time. There were some shops where I always saw them in Chucks.

 29 
 on: January 16, 2018, 09:15:32 PM 
Started by NIN - Last post by NIN
What I was told (and this came from an AF vet / CAP member) was until 911 in both USAF daily wear and CAP, BDU/ABU was for field work, blues for office. Until 911. Then it was "off with the toga and on with the sagum" and we have remained in battle dress ever since.

No just the USAF.  The majority of our Armed Forces, post 9/11, went to "combat uniforms" all the time.  The Air Force, as a matter of fact, got a lot of flak from their brother and sister services because the AF just kind of kept on "business as usual" for a long time after that.

and a few years back, tried to get back to their "the business men of the DOD" roots with "Blues Mondays."

As the gentleman who was my chief of staff when I was in the Army Cadets (a Navy guy, no less) used to lament: "The Army will get married and buried in ACUs if they thought they could get away with it."

My mentor as a Phase IV cadet and as a young senior was a 20+ year full-time Air Guard guy, and he wore blues to work every day. That was his job, he had no need for BDUs and rifle in his particular billet. He used to tell us "Fatigues is a working uniform, meant to be worn while working, getting dirty, that kind of thing.  Blues is your everyday wear apart from that."


 30 
 on: January 16, 2018, 08:46:57 PM 
Started by NIN - Last post by NIN
OK, guys, take a step back. Breathe.

The reason I bring this up isn't to divide.  I have the CAP Working Uniform and I love wearing it when appropriate.

(A year or so back, at one of our wing meetings, everybody in the room was wearing the polo. It was a neat surprise)

My point in posting this was two fold:

1) CAP's minimum uniform, technically, is NOT the Working Uniform. I get that "the polo is all I ever needed." Yep, tracking. But its not always the most appropriate uniform for all circumstances.  And folks doing recruiting and onboarding and initial training for new senior members are doing our membership a disservice by saying "this is all you'll ever need."  As I suggested in my OP, its a great *first* uniform to get you in the plane and participating.  But our members need to be aware, and trained, that the polo shirt is not the ONLY uniform combination.

2) There are circumstances, as I alluded to in 1) above, where the Working Uniform is not the most appropriate uniform for the activity at hand.  You'd no sooner show up in blues or aviator whites to fill sandbags (I've seen it.. not pretty) than you would wear a flight suit to the banquet at a Wing Conference.  Just like you'd no sooner wear your only pair of (unfortunately grubby) Levis and a clean shirt to your nephew's wedding, or a sport coat and slacks for range clean up day.

Now, there are people who will say "Oh, I don't bother with such high-falutin' stuff as to need the aviator shirt combo."

Yet at the same time, we have formal events where we promote our members, laud and recognize their accomplishments. Events where the level of formality is much higher than a "polo shirt and grey tactical pants." Are you not going to go to an event like that?

My larger point is that when the invitation for a "fairly formal" events is sent out and says "Uniform is USAF-style Class B or Class A, or CAP Corporate Dress or the Aviator Shirt combo, or appropriate civilian attire" we get back "Can I wear my polo shirt?"

The answer is NO.  I don't have a single beef with a pilot who's been in CAP less than a year and so far only has the polo shirt combo arriving at Wing Conference in a sport coat and slacks, if thats what he's got.

If you're going to an event to support the members of your squadron who are getting awards or you yourself are getting awards, DRESS APPROPRIATELY.  A blue open-collar polo shirt with a pair of grey 5.11s is not in any way equivalent to the way the presenter is dressed in the blazer combo or Class As or,in the case of a member of Congress, a local legislator, or the Mayor, in a civilian suit.  Wear a coat. Wear a tie.  Look like you belong there, in the moment, and in a manner keeping with the gravitas of the event.

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