Do you ever feel frustrated, used, abused as a member of CAP? I have and it is the reason why I quit in 1975. I am older and wiser but I see that CAP has not changed much. We seem to be led by an egotistic autocratic few who often rose to be a Colonel in 5 years. Or wing staff who have not flown a mission, or been on mission base staff in a decade or more.
Sure, Bob: every year in January. I renew in Feb and have considered it at least 15 times in 16 years. That said, the missions and a few of my closest associates cause me to keep coming back.
Never actually quit, but have taken a couple extended vacations from CAP in my 10 years of membership.
Even though I'm inactive, I keep renewing... I'd hate to up and quit and then five years down the road decide I want back in, and have to start over 'cause my files got destroyed.... And if I do 15 more, I can "retire".
On occasion, primarily because I've been doing this for five years and have three missions under my belt. I came for ES and have seen little of it outside of training. Now CAP has become too much a part of my life to want to leave, and I've gotten over my woes (although I wouldn't mind a few more missions now and then).
I have considered it more than a few times, not because of lack of interest, but because of people that treated me unfairly, or were in a position of power but couldn't do their jobs. People that restrict the potential of others simply to boost their own ego, and make them more secure in their own personal fiefdom. People that lie to get rid of those they don't like, and judge based on unfounded rumors. It is sick, what some people will say and do.
It is only my closest friends and associates in CAP that have kept me paying dues.
I used to think about it all the time but I figure even being able to do a little good is worth all the BS.
Truthfully, I am planning on retiring from CAP effective 31 January 2009. Just waiting to do it on e-services until the of January.
Thanks for some of your thoughts
I am aware of studies done one people like us, it is a forgone conclusion that we are not the normative of society. Most people go home and watch people like us on TV.
I rejoined CAP because of Archer and Hyperspectral imaging, flying was something that has been very hard to get back into, I quit flying after several friends were killed in horrific plane crashes. but now I fly with a short list of guys who I trust and they me.
I too ask myself every year, why pay $190.00, but then another mission comes up and we fly the ridgelines, I also truly believe we are an asset to our country and although I am a liberal,conservative, socialist,NRA member, republican Palin lover!! it sure gets to be a pain in the AX& on a regular basis. I was cleared for CD this year, involved in two Space Shuttle Landings, Fossett and many others. Yet, I only stay for my comrades and the belief in the Mission.
All the time... especially when you realize that one or two members at the healm have little or no leadership experience and continually micro-mange your efforts - all in an effort to make to "their" program better, when in the end, it's a train wreck.
I am fortunate that I have a very happy home in a NCSA... lately, that is where I have been focusing most, if not all, of my CAP time. At least there the people appreciate your effort.
I had a good meeting with one of my other senior members the other night, sort of a gripe session. We ironed out a few (actaually A LOT) things that need done at the local unit level, and tried to find ways to address morale on the senior side, since it pretty crappy. Once again - told to do you job, but no tools to do it...
Brian
PAWG
I actually retired once and then a friend became wing commander and asked me to come back. We've been pretty lucky with the last three wing commanders, but I fight the renewal battle every year.
I like teaching / demonstrating aerospace ed subjects to both cadets and seniors. In fact, at last night's meeting we segued from the Sentinel topics to having a friend demo his Long-EZ to the members followed by showing the differences between it and my 172. Out 2 hour meeting went 2.5 and would have gone longer except for it being a school night.
Bottom line good people doing good things with a wing culture of low BS keeps me around.
Renew for three years, then you won't have to fight the renewal battle as often.
I quit as a Cadet because of Squadron politics and incompetence.
I was brought back in as a SM by the then NY Wing Commander, who recruited myself and a few of my ham radio friends to attempt to bolster the Comms program. I went into Patron status during a difficult time in my life, moved to Florida, and was too busy working to think about CAP. I missed it... But didn't miss it.. If you can understand the sentiment.
During Hurricane Wilma I was doing the ham radio thing at an EOC in South Florida and wound up working with some of the folks there, and the spark got rekindled. A few months later I rejoined (membership had lapsed), and shortly thereafter I joined the Group that I am still with. I may have set a record for the longest time period as a 2nd. Lt. - 8 years or so. :)
At this point in my life I view CAP as I do my employer - there's always challenges, there's always people who will impede progress; but if you let them dominate your thoughts about the program, you *will* want to quit. Work for change, shake off what annoys you as best you can, and remember what CAP is all about. For me, I make sure that the rewards exceed the challenges by teaching when I can, prosecuting missions when I can, and laying groundwork for what the program will look like (at least in my Group and area of responsibility). Since I belong to a Group HQ and not to a Squadron, I get out as often as possible to see our Squadrons and participate in their activities - and I enjoy it.
I could tell you about all the crap that I have to deal with -- and there are some things that I am truly concerned about -- but in all honesty I don't really ever feel like quitting over them because of all the good that I know that I can do to my local piece of the program and the joy I get out of working with the folks we have. As a father of three, I want my kids to turn out like some of the excellent Cadets that we have. The best way to encourage that is to stay with the program, do what good I can, and hopefully they will want to join when they become of age. In four years time, child #1 will be eligible...
Sometimes you have to seek out the roses to get a good whiff.
I've taken a break from CAP and when I'm on vacation from work/school I'm on vacation from CAP as well.
I have never considered quiting and probably wont. If I ever have to take an extended break, I would just switch over to patron until I had the time/energy to get back in fully.
I havnt "quit", but Ive let my membership lapse twice. Once when I joined the Marines and was out of action for about 5 years. Then, had a 3 year break when my work schedule wouldnt allow me to be involved. My renewal date came, I put the notice on my desk completely intending to renew so I would be ready when my schedule changed, and next thing I knew, it was 3 years later. Wanna hear something funny.....my short sleeve blues shirt was still hanging in my closet with my ribbons and all, just as I had left it 3 years earlier after taking it off for the last time after a meeting. (kinda gross, but funny)
Now, I have a son who will be joining next year and have a perfect excuse to go back to encampment and all the cadet activities as a Tac Officer!!!! I have a feeling WE will be going to IACE as well :clap:
I have left CAP more than once, mostly because of moving so much. But everytime I leave I really miss it. I enjoy working with the Cadets and watching them go from little johnny with two left feet, to a C/Lt Col being in charge of a whole bunch of little johnny's.
I like to be in the air, I like the ES stuff, but I really enjoy the Cadets - At the very least they keep you on your toes.
Yes. I have been in for six years, I am a Mission Pilot with all of my ratings etc., one of the senior "go to" pilots theorectically in the Wing. My issue is that there is just not enough to do. I have not flown one mission this year that I can remember. I have flown all of the SAREXs, but we have had very few missions and the ones that we have had, by the time I called in they already had a crew flying.
Quote from: x15sr71f112002 on October 02, 2008, 04:17:05 PM
Yes. I have been in for six years, I am a Mission Pilot with all of my ratings etc., one of the senior "go to" pilots theorectically in the Wing. My issue is that there is just not enough to do. I have not flown one mission this year that I can remember. I have flown all of the SAREXs, but we have had very few missions and the ones that we have had, by the time I called in they already had a crew flying.
There's always cadet o-flight money to burn.
I go through this about every 5 years for a lot of the same reasons listed by everyone else. I get frustrated with the program/members, bored, tired, etc. I have never quit, but I have also taken "extended" leaves while keeping my membership current. In my 25+ years in CAP, I have come to realize that people that drive you crazy will either leave or move into an area that has less impact with you, you just have to be patient and fortunately, at my age, I have time on my side. I just do what I do and I do it well and try not to be the reason that others leave.
Hey X 15 "go to guy"
Not enough to do?? Never heard THAT in CAP!!
If ya wanna move north and are G1000 ck pilot qual'd WE got plenty for ya to do
got alot of 4th point of contact going on up here
Seeeeems to be a back log of former and up and coming G1000 drivers that can 't get ahead in life due to real or percieved issues
Pack your bags!! >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D
Oh, I've taken time off in my years with CAP, and I've even quit once or twice (and then renewed my membership before I lost anything like time or rank...<GRIN>)
I think about quitting now and again- then I stop reading CAPTalk for awhile and the feeling goes away. ;D ;D ;D
Actually CAP Talk has kept me in, we need to share our experiences and feelings, I would sometimes prefer it not to be in a public forum. maybe we should have a site that we use a password to get in.
Right now many of us who flew looking for Fossett are beating ourselves up for doing the 'Gee did I miss it" self flagellation. That gets you down.
I dropped out once back in the '70s because of facial air issues. I was out about 8 years. I rejoined and served in an O/S unit for 2 1/2 years, and then stopped participating agan after my return to the States, again due to facial hair issues. I retained my membership on the chance I might participate some time in the future. That time came after 10 years, and I have been active since then (1999).
There are time when I wonder why I still stick around, but I always find a reason - the mission, the camaraderie, the sense of doing for my community.
Quit after a few years as a cadet. I can't quite remember why, but I think it may have been because all of the friends I had joined with had left. Since I rejoined as a senior I haven't thought about it. CAP faces some probable long-term challenges in its ES mission that if they get really severe might drive me out if we stop getting enough missions to keep it interesting.
I went Senior after getting my Mitchell to get out from under the thumb of a really incompetent unit CC. I quit about a year after he was replaced by a clown who couldn't control his cadets. That was 1991.
2001 found out that one of the cadets in my old unit was now a local unit CC and actually lived a couple blocks down the street from me. Joined back up and been around ever since. She's now the Wing Queen, I'm still a flunkie Comm Monkey ;D
I can't quit now: I still owe her for bailing me outta jail a few years back... :-X
I just renewed my membership for 2 more years. Before I did that, I weighed in on the people I've worked with that have been an inspiration to me (cadets and seniors), those that have been a liability to me and the organization, and the people I work with on almost daily basis.
My answer's in the new membership expiration date I guess.
No matter how bad the bad ones get, I always have more faith and trust in the good ones.
There have been times when I've been very tempted to throw up my hands and walk away from CAP for good; but if it wasn't for the squadron I'm a member of these days CAP would be a distant memory for me. Other interests took me away from CAP for 17 years back in 1988, but barring a major earth-shattering event in my life, I think I'm in it for the long run this time.
Not only have I thought about leaving CAP, I am going to do just that. I joined CAP to do something worthwhile with aviation and did so during my tenure. In the past year I have seen CAP go down a road that scares me to death. It has bought into the Administration's climate of fear hook, line and sinker. Just like the paranoid fear mongers in the White House and DHS, CAP sees Osama bin Laden under every rock, Taliban insurgents behind every tree, Hezbollah terrorists in every queue in every airport and Al Qaeda suicide bombers in every Toyota pickup truck in America. After reading the ARCHER Summit document and seeing the changes they want to make to the system, it became blatantly evident that Homeland Security missions are a politically correct way of saying DOMESTIC SURVEILLANCE. This is NOT the America I grew up in, it is a fearful suspiscious place where we are all suspect, and I cannot and will not be part of making my fellow Americans suspects in their own land. I WILL NOT, either directly or indirectly be involved with any oraganiztion that goes down that road. Nor will I be involved with inculcating our youth with the notion that every one is suspiscious and needs to be watched. I echo the sentiments of a song from 1970 "I feel like a stranger in the land where I was born..." and " I'm a fugitive from injustice, but I am going to be free...". Some may say I am un- American, but they conveniently fail to remember that Thomas Jefferson said: "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." The mentality of "With us or against us" and "If you have nothing to hide you don't need to worry" are ideas that worked well to install and instill tyranny, in Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia. They are truly the seeds of tyranny. Some may say "but we are in a state of war." Maybe so, but a famous writer, Aleksander Solzhenytsin ( who was stripped of his citizenship by the Kremiln for his dissenting writing AND lived in exile in the US until the fall of the Iron Curtain) wrote "A state of war serves only as an excuse for domestic tyranny." Yes I am going to let my membership expire, I CANNOT and WILL NOT be part of creating and propogating an atmosphere of suspiscion nor will I support an organization that does. Not too long ago questions were asked why they wanted ARCHER operators with DoD security clearances, THIS is why. You see, National Security is a tool for keeping the American people uninformed and to avoid accountability. The less we as a people know about the actions of the governemnt the less able we are to change that what is wrong. Benjamin Franklin said: "Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither." I find it disturbing that this administration has taken a page from Hermann Goerning's playbook: " "Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
Be Well
Mark
Those are some pretty serious accusations you're throwing around and associate CAP with, you know... :o
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on October 03, 2008, 03:17:35 AM
I went Senior after getting my Mitchell to get out from under the thumb of a really incompetent unit CC. I quit about a year after he was replaced by a clown who couldn't control his cadets. That was 1991.
2001 found out that one of the cadets in my old unit was now a local unit CC and actually lived a couple blocks down the street from me. Joined back up and been around ever since. She's now the Wing Queen, I'm still a flunkie Comm Monkey ;D
I can't quit now: I still owe her for bailing me outta jail a few years back... :-X
I think I heard of that story........:)
If you look at every one of these posts, then you will have heard every one of my reasons to quit and join someone else.
what brings me back to CAP is the cadets. If I can make a difference in just one kid's life, just as someone had done for me when I was a kid, then the hearache of CAP will be worth it.
Hoser -
Step away from the coffee brother......
Quote from: Nathan on October 03, 2008, 07:18:55 PM
Those are some pretty serious accusations you're throwing around and associate CAP with, you know... :o
Shouldn't you be polishing your diamonds, Colonel? >:D >:D >:D
Quote from: Hoser on October 03, 2008, 06:53:25 PM
Not only have I thought about leaving CAP, I am going to do just that. I joined CAP to do something worthwhile with aviation and did so during my tenure. In the past year I have seen CAP go down a road that scares me to death. It has bought into the Administration's climate of fear hook, line and sinker. Just like the paranoid fear mongers in the White House and DHS, CAP sees Osama bin Laden under every rock, Taliban insurgents behind every tree, Hezbollah terrorists in every queue in every airport and Al Qaeda suicide bombers in every Toyota pickup truck in America. After reading the ARCHER Summit document and seeing the changes they want to make to the system, it became blatantly evident that Homeland Security missions are a politically correct way of saying DOMESTIC SURVEILLANCE. This is NOT the America I grew up in, it is a fearful suspiscious place where we are all suspect, and I cannot and will not be part of making my fellow Americans suspects in their own land. I WILL NOT, either directly or indirectly be involved with any oraganiztion that goes down that road. Nor will I be involved with inculcating our youth with the notion that every one is suspiscious and needs to be watched. I echo the sentiments of a song from 1970 "I feel like a stranger in the land where I was born..." and " I'm a fugitive from injustice, but I am going to be free...". Some may say I am un- American, but they conveniently fail to remember that Thomas Jefferson said: "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." The mentality of "With us or against us" and "If you have nothing to hide you don't need to worry" are ideas that worked well to install and instill tyranny, in Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia. They are truly the seeds of tyranny. Some may say "but we are in a state of war." Maybe so, but a famous writer, Aleksander Solzhenytsin ( who was stripped of his citizenship by the Kremiln for his dissenting writing AND lived in exile in the US until the fall of the Iron Curtain) wrote "A state of war serves only as an excuse for domestic tyranny." Yes I am going to let my membership expire, I CANNOT and WILL NOT be part of creating and propogating an atmosphere of suspiscion nor will I support an organization that does. Not too long ago questions were asked why they wanted ARCHER operators with DoD security clearances, THIS is why. You see, National Security is a tool for keeping the American people uninformed and to avoid accountability. The less we as a people know about the actions of the governemnt the less able we are to change that what is wrong. Benjamin Franklin said: "Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither." I find it disturbing that this administration has taken a page from Hermann Goerning's playbook: " "Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
Be Well
Mark
Wow man, just, Wow!
Took you all that to tell us you're drinking the Alex Jones, prisonplanet.com Koolaid and the tinfoil hat's starting to chafe.
Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on October 03, 2008, 08:20:23 PM
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on October 03, 2008, 03:17:35 AM
I went Senior after getting my Mitchell to get out from under the thumb of a really incompetent unit CC. I quit about a year after he was replaced by a clown who couldn't control his cadets. That was 1991.
2001 found out that one of the cadets in my old unit was now a local unit CC and actually lived a couple blocks down the street from me. Joined back up and been around ever since. She's now the Wing Queen, I'm still a flunkie Comm Monkey ;D
I can't quit now: I still owe her for bailing me outta jail a few years back... :-X
I think I heard of that story........:)
Ahh, just another Chrismas holiday with the family...NOT
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on October 04, 2008, 04:03:53 AM
Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on October 03, 2008, 08:20:23 PM
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on October 03, 2008, 03:17:35 AM
I went Senior after getting my Mitchell to get out from under the thumb of a really incompetent unit CC. I quit about a year after he was replaced by a clown who couldn't control his cadets. That was 1991.
2001 found out that one of the cadets in my old unit was now a local unit CC and actually lived a couple blocks down the street from me. Joined back up and been around ever since. She's now the Wing Queen, I'm still a flunkie Comm Monkey ;D
I can't quit now: I still owe her for bailing me outta jail a few years back... :-X
I think I heard of that story........:)
Ahh, just another Chrismas holiday with the family...NOT
I know of the "family" down that way....
Hoser
Your right, i think it is time you go, this forum was not intended for someone like you to go off on a deep end psychobabel diatribe from a ultrarightwing nut job.
The security clearance is a tool for federal contractors to insure that people like you cannot be a danger to anything you may be exposed to as the auxiliary of the United States Air Force.
The rights and freedoms of all Americans is always a subject for debate and observance, you are an American and patriotic in your own way, I encourage you to continue to preach the values of the Constitution, on the other hand, I will continue to look for lost souls and enemy's of the United States of America, and if I see a woman in a bikini in her back yard. . . well I will look too.
So do you watch the X-files too much?