CAP Talk

This stems from the discussion about the Moody AFB BX.

I think CAP members should be allowed to shop at AAFES, but only while on orders and in uniform.  For example, while at encampment, region staff college, or national cadet special activities.  If we had full-time privileges, I think CAP would really screw the pooch.

From the Moody thread:

Quote from: afgeo4 on April 18, 2008, 06:13:05 PM
And extra people spending money at the BX would be bad how? The AAFES depends on spending to run their operations. The more people spend their money there, the better off AAFES is.

I find it wrong funny that the local BX/PX will let the local PD shop, but not Civil Air Patrol.

Not that I have a habit of following the AAFES profit margin, but I'm quite sure they do just fine without a few thousand CAPers running around.

I can picture it now, the 15-person CAP family we used to have in DC Wing in the 90s strolling through Andrews AFB BX with 5 carts like kids in a candy store.  Then, loading up the CAP van to go sell all the stuff they bought at a 15% mark up.

How about a choice for "BX while on official business; clothing sales anytime, including online"?

ADMIN:  Can you make it so we can change our votes?  Captain B made a good suggestion and I edited the options.

Quote from: Stonewall on April 18, 2008, 06:17:37 PM
From the Moody thread:

Quote from: afgeo4 on April 18, 2008, 06:13:05 PM
And extra people spending money at the BX would be bad how? The AAFES depends on spending to run their operations. The more people spend their money there, the better off AAFES is.

I find it wrong funny that the local BX/PX will let the local PD shop, but not Civil Air Patrol.

Not that I have a habit of following the AAFES profit margin, but I'm quite sure they do just fine without a few thousand CAPers running around.

I can picture it now, the 15-person CAP family we used to have in DC Wing in the 90s strolling through Andrews AFB BX with 5 carts like kids in a candy store.  Then, loading up the CAP van to go sell all the stuff they bought at a 15% mark up.

Sir, have you been to a BX lately? It's not all that cheap! Certainly not when compared to a Wal-Mart. True, they sell at good discounts, but the things they sell are usually designer brands and thus aren't very inexpensive. The best thing about BX/PX is that they're convenient (if you're on base) and that they are tax-free.

I don't see too many young soldiers/airmen screwing things up and don't see how adult CAP members can screw it up either. As far as cadets go... they're no different than mil dependents. It's a store, after all, not an ICBM base.

As far as the comment above... we already have BX privileges while on orders and MCSS all other times and online isn't going to happen because we're not in DEERS.

As an Auxie I'm authorized patronage at Coast Guard Exchanges and MWR... Even says so on the back of my ID card.  IIRC the only limitations placed on me are no tobacco and alcohol, but at AAFES or NEX it's uniform items only just like CAP is currently.

I think CAP and the Auxiliary should be able to shop at AAFES etc without being restricted to just uniforms, but then again I don't live close enough to a BX or CG Exchange to take advantage or abuse the privelage... Maybe if that extended to shopping online?  I appreciate being authorized shop online for uniforms through UDC as an Auxie.

Quote from: afgeo4 on April 18, 2008, 06:26:58 PM
Sir, have you been to a BX lately? It's not all that cheap! Certainly not when compared to a Wal-Mart. True, they sell at good discounts, but the things they sell are usually designer brands and thus aren't very inexpensive. The best thing about BX/PX is that they're convenient (if you're on base) and that they are tax-free.

I don't see too many young soldiers/airmen screwing things up and don't see how adult CAP members can screw it up either. As far as cadets go... they're no different than mil dependents. It's a store, after all, not an ICBM base.

Yes, I go to and shop at a BX all the time, weekly in fact.  I can think of several things off the top of my head that you are better off getting at the BX/PX/NEX:

North Face and Columbia clothing.  Generally 20 to 30% cheaper than anywhere else and NO TAX.

Computers:  We comparison shopped and found our computer at the exchange for be about $75 cheaper than anywhere else, not including the whole non-tax thing.

Baby stuff:  hands down.

Liquor, beer and wine:  BX prices can't be beat.

Haircut:  $5 cheaper than Hair Cuttery

Anything else?  Sure, there are some things that blow my mind at the BX, like a 20 oz bottle of pepsi costing $1.29 (just saw it yesterday), but I don't go there for pepsi, I go to the commisary where groceries are really really cheap.

In my mind, it's about earning the right.  CAP is a good place to volunteer and serve, but it doesn't compare to serving in the military, thus the privilege should have restrictions.  I don't know about your local BX, but law enforcement is not allowed to shop at ours unless they're on base training with the government or military; just like CAP.  Only Active, Guard, Reserves, retirees and foreign military.

Hey, don't get angry, just my opinion on the matter.  Doesn't make a difference one way or the other.

Quote from: MIKE on April 18, 2008, 06:32:26 PM
As an Auxie I'm authorized patronage at Coast Guard Exchanges and MWR... Even says so on the back of my ID card.  IIRC the only limitations placed on me are no tobacco and alcohol, but at AAFES or NEX it's uniform items only just like CAP is currently.

I think CAP and the Auxiliary should be able to shop at AAFES etc without being restricted to just uniforms, but then again I don't live close enough to a BX or CG Exchange to take advantage or abuse the privelage... Maybe if that extended to shopping online?  I appreciate being authorized shop online for uniforms through UDC as an Auxie.

For the local CG Aux the CG privilige was extended to the BX at the State NG HQ and NTC Great Lakes - due to the fact that the nearest CG BX is like two days drive.
However, the Air Force BX at Scott AFB is still off limits.

FWIW:  DOD Civilian employees who work on military bases, for the military, sometimes doing the exact same job as a military member don't get BX privileges either.  Under certain circumstances, like being assigned to a military base overseas, but pretty much no benefits in the US.

The base commander already has the authorisation to allow CAP personnel to use the BX facilities during things like encampments and such. 

Just add that to the check list of things to coordinate when planning an encampment at a military base.

I don't see a probelm with allowing BX shopping for CAP members.  The units at the base benefit, AAFES benefits, and it is a nice "gimme" for CAP service in lieu of pay.

The only probelm is that initially, the lines at the checkout might be longer, but I'm not sure there are enough CAP members to matter that much, and after they see that the prices are not all that much better, the lines will get shorter.

We should have Class 6 privileges, too, though.

Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on April 18, 2008, 07:31:46 PM
We should have Class 6 privileges, too, though.

Agreed! 

As far as the Walmart or other big boxes being cheaper than the exchange, if you bring in the advertisements showing the exchange is not cheaper they will give you the lower price, and some may actually give it to you without the ad. 

Also, installation commanders can authorize use during events like Encampment, but the rules are still there restricting purchases to uniforms or sundry items.

If anything, I would rather get on line access for CAP members to buy uniforms than anything else.  That would be a better benefit for the majority of members. 

Now on a different subject, should we also get access to the AAFES GAS Station??  They are exchange activities also! 

   

Quote from: lordmonar on April 18, 2008, 07:27:59 PM
The base commander already has the authorisation to allow CAP personnel to use the BX facilities during things like encampments and such. 

Sadly, it doesn't matter if he authorizes it or not since CAP regs prohibit our taking him up on it.

I think the following would be fair:


MCSS: Anytime, including online.

BX:

1.  When staying overnight, even when not occupying quarters (like when we camp out on an AFB for an airshow or similar activity) - or when staying nearby off-base for an on-base multi-day activity - but not when withing reasonable driving distance from home.

2.  When on base, in uniform, for CAP business; but only for incidentals - a bottle of soda, a candy bar, a notebook, pens, etc.    The items should have a CAP use on base and not be items for personal use off-base - so housewares and the like would be off-limits.   If grocery-type items are needed for a CAP activity (say paper plates, 2 liter soda, etc for feeding cadets and staff at a bivouac on base), then written authorization should be secured from the CAP event commander and presented to the BX staff.  The Commander would be accountable to the Wing Commander in case it is ever questioned. 

3.  When otherwise authorized by both the Base Commander and the Wing Commander in whatever manner they proscribe.


Other services, such as fast food restaurants and gas:  When on base for CAP business in uniform.

Quote from: Stonewall on April 18, 2008, 06:26:13 PM
ADMIN:  Can you make it so we can change our votes?  Captain B made a good suggestion and I edited the options.

Done.

Joe:

Our regs are extracted from AAFES regs.  If AAFES regs change, ours will too.

Quote from: JoeTomasone on April 18, 2008, 08:45:17 PM
Other services, such as fast food restaurants and gas:  When on base for CAP business in uniform.

The BK and other fast food shops on POST/BASE are open to anyone (CAC or no CAC). 

GAS was a good benefit from AAFES about 5 years ago, but now there is only a 12 to 18 cent difference between AAFES GAS and off post gas. 

Perhaps those that are working the VSAF program should get full exchange benefits!  I would like to see it start there first!  Nothing better than paying 3 bucks to see a new movie or getting a case of PBR beer for like 5 bucks! 

What else would be nice would be to get billeting for our members if they are traveling outside of CAP activities.  IF Space is available, let them stay on post/ base. 

I might be in violation in the strictest terms but...
I've used the BX for haircuts, small items (cokes, candy, etc), meals at the food court and the gas station without any  difficulty. They ask for ID and I show my CAP ID.  As for gas...it's not really cheaper, but I travel 92 miles to get to the base and main base is about 20 miles from the nearest gas station. I routinely fill up before heading back home. Plus once again, the nearest place to eat, get  snacks, etc is 20 miles away. The haircuts are cheap and fast..and they sure know how to do a military cut.

Some of my times there are not CAP directly related....I fly at the Aero Club and if I couldn't eat, get drinks, etc it would make for a long and uncomfortable day.

Quote from: Smokey on April 18, 2008, 11:35:34 PM
I fly at the Aero Club and if I couldn't eat, get drinks, etc it would make for a long and uncomfortable day.

The aero club on base?  If so, were you able to join because you were a CAP member?  Some Aero Clubs are pretty restrictive, while others actually advertise to CAP pilots. 

The aero club is on base....and if I'm not mistaken, all AF Aero clubs are open to CAP by AF regs.


BTW...last time I was on base about 3 weeks ago, there was a sign on the BX that said civilians were welcome.  The base has a large number of civilians and contractors, but I didn't have time to check into the details.

Here is the eligability info.....from AFMAN 34-232
1.1.3. In addition to the authorized persons specified in AFI 34-201, Services Programs and Use Eligibility,
the following individuals are authorized membership:
• Individuals authorized Veterans Administration (VA) Flight Training Benefits, for the period
they are enrolled in a VA approved flight training course provided local VA flight training
facilities are unavailable.
• Civil Air Patrol members.
• Flight instructors and mechanics on contract with the aero club.


Prices aren't bad either....the wet rate for a C-172SP is $86/Hr and with the G1000 (Glass Panel) is $95/Hr

Given the amount of time it takes to get checked in at base (totally different topic there), it certainly isn't worth the time of any CAP members in my area to go there except for special items. 

As an active member of the military I say no. BX privledges are reserved for those who are currently serving, their dependents and retired military. This is a privledge for those who have served and are serving. Sorry to be so blunt.

Put the shoe on the other foot, if CAP had a BX specifically designated for CAP, how would it feel for the those in the military to come in and take from you uniform supplies that you need or any other materials you might need? CAP has vanguard and you should use it.

Quote from: mikeylikey on April 18, 2008, 09:20:39 PM
GAS was a good benefit from AAFES about 5 years ago, but now there is only a 12 to 18 cent difference between AAFES GAS and off post gas. 

Perhaps those that are working the VSAF program should get full exchange benefits!  I would like to see it start there first!  Nothing better than paying 3 bucks to see a new movie or getting a case of PBR beer for like 5 bucks! 

Gas for me from AAFES isn't that much cheaper.  I think it's mostly because they jack up the price a little slower.  Maybe 5 cents or so.

I work on Edwards AFB, and civilians including non-DOD civilians can shop at the BX, at least for some things (I know booze and smokes are out, sadly).  I've never tried a big purchase like a TV or computer though.

On Edwards, the bulk of people on base are contractors or civil service so I think thats why its open to us.  I just showed my work badge the few times I had to buy something there.

Things to remember when doing price comparisons:

Some states have sales tax. The base price might be cheaper off base, but will be more expensive when adding in the sales tax. This is also a factor in gas prices - no state taxes on the base.

You need to compare brand for brand. I know people who try to compare store brands off-base to the stuff in the exchanges, and it doesn't work. If you're pricing Levi's on base, look at Levi's off base, too.

Aside from that, I echo Razor's view. You want it, you earn it.

Does it make any difference to the topic, if CAP members are allowed Officer Club provileges??  With the drawdown in size in the military, I would think that the BX's and Commissaries would be looking for the business that CAP members could bring to them.  Don't talk to a veteran about earning it, when he has been there and done that and is now donating his time for free to assist the Air Force.  Anything that the military can extend to us without cost to them should be done.  Some CAP members spend as much time if not more assisting CAP as non-activated reservist and national guardsmen.  And, let's not forget, CAP members are not compensated for a valuable service. 

I'd say no.

Gas at WPAFB is actually more expensive on base the last time I was there.

Than again, my brother (CAP cadet) is also in the Coast Guard, so if I want something, he just buys it for me.

Quote from: RAZOR on April 19, 2008, 12:57:17 AM
As an active member of the military I say no. BX privileges are reserved for those who are currently serving, their dependents and retired military. This is a privilege for those who have served and are serving. Sorry to be so blunt.

Put the shoe on the other foot, if CAP had a BX specifically designated for CAP, how would it feel for the those in the military to come in and take from you uniform supplies that you need or any other materials you might need? CAP has vanguard and you should use it.

Thats a very hard line stance.  I don't know of one instance where a CAP member purchased the last uniform item at MCSS and an enlisted guy got screwed over.    

The military community also has Vanguard......use it!

Quote from: capchiro on April 19, 2008, 01:26:58 AM
Does it make any difference to the topic, if CAP members are allowed Officer Club privileges?? 

The Clubs, consolidate clubs and enlisted clubs on most bases/ posts are open to civilians.  My local O-Club does not extend membership to anyone but military Officers (and I have to say that is a good thing, as Officers just like enlisted need a place to go vent without the other group around). The Consolidated club down the street offers CAP members membership, and the awesome Chase credit card that doubles as a club membership card.  The Clubs are disappearing from most posts/bases/stations.  They are desperate for people to join.  I think the local Commander is the ultimate authority on who is allowed to join or not.  

As far as exchange benefits go, letting CAP members shop there will not hugely impact the services they offer.    

Quote from: RAZOR on April 19, 2008, 12:57:17 AM
As an active member of the military I say no. BX privledges are reserved for those who are currently serving, their dependents and retired military. This is a privledge for those who have served and are serving. Sorry to be so blunt.

Put the shoe on the other foot, if CAP had a BX specifically designated for CAP, how would it feel for the those in the military to come in and take from you uniform supplies that you need or any other materials you might need? CAP has vanguard and you should use it.

RAZOR, you forget that we ARE serving our country and we do lose members while on missions for USAF from time to time. How is that less deserving of the privilege to spend money at BX than any service member who gets paid for the job?

Quote from: mikeylikey on April 19, 2008, 01:59:10 AM

Quote from: RAZOR on April 19, 2008, 12:57:17 AM
As an active member of the military I say no. BX privileges are reserved for those who are currently serving, their dependents and retired military. This is a privilege for those who have served and are serving. Sorry to be so blunt.

Put the shoe on the other foot, if CAP had a BX specifically designated for CAP, how would it feel for the those in the military to come in and take from you uniform supplies that you need or any other materials you might need? CAP has vanguard and you should use it.

Thats a very hard line stance.  I don't know of one instance where a CAP member purchased the last uniform item at MCSS and an enlisted guy got screwed over.   

The military community also has Vanguard......use it!

Quote from: capchiro on April 19, 2008, 01:26:58 AM
Does it make any difference to the topic, if CAP members are allowed Officer Club privileges?? 

The Clubs, consolidate clubs and enlisted clubs on most bases/ posts are open to civilians.  My local O-Club does not extend membership to anyone but military Officers (and I have to say that is a good thing, as Officers just like enlisted need a place to go vent without the other group around). The Consolidated club down the street offers CAP members membership, and the awesome Chase credit card that doubles as a club membership card.  The Clubs are disappearing from most posts/bases/stations.  They are desperate for people to join.  I think the local Commander is the ultimate authority on who is allowed to join or not. 

As far as exchange benefits go, letting CAP members shop there will not hugely impact the services they offer.   

How in the world did that service member get screwed over? That service member should have gone to Customer Service and placed an order for that item and would have received it in a couple of days without tax or shipping charges. The MCSS doesn't guarantee product to be in stock. It ain't Blockbuster.

I like this poll. It gives me a chance to maybe get a debate solved. I say a CAP ID is not good enough to get on base (w/out a DoD sticker). The Personnel officer says it is. Does it vary by base? So a base like Andrews it won't work, but at Warner Robbins or Peterson it will. Who is right?

The DOD guidance is that only those personnel posesing a CAC are entitled to entry.  Then the guidance gives the local Commander the ability to dictate who else can come on post/ base and what credentials they need.

No where is it written that CAP can legally be allowed to enter military posts/ bases, it has always been the Commanders discretion.  So some blame the SF personnel or Gate Guards, when in fact it really was the Commander telling CAP no to entry!   

 ;D Thank you MikeyLikey, I will take that as I was right.  :clap: :clap: .

Was at Moody AFB where they don't require decals.  Last year, it was an AF wide move to get rid of the DOD decal because it costs so much money to buy them and since 9/11 they've been doing 100% ID checks anyway.

Back to the BX thing.

Like someone said above, many CAP members devote more time than a lot of Guard and Reserve members.  That said, what's the percentage of members that do that?  If you ask me, not enough to warrant giving all of CAP the privilege of using the BX full-time.

Of the 60K members in CAP, how many just pay their dues each year for benefits like flying clubs?  I'm pretty sure, more people would join or renew just to have BX privileges but giving nothing in return.

And to the non-retired veterans, you did your time, be it a 4 or 10 year stint, and during that time you got free healthcare, BX and Commisary privileges and MWR bennies.  But you got out and those privileges go away.  Retire or go in the Guard/Reserves and you get to maintain those privileges.  When I had a break in service of 3 years, I lost all those privileges and I will admit, I missed them.  Especially living in DC where I had a ton of bases to choose from.  I chose to re-enlist into the Guard, not for BX privileges, but because I missed serving in the MILITARY; all the while maintaining active membership in CAP.  At no time did I feel that I was owed something for my CAP membership.  I already had access to our base, Ft. Belvoir, and if I truly wanted to use the PX, I could throw on my flightsuit or wear my CAP BDUs with a goretex jacket, even without rank, and still not get questioned.

Again, I reiterate my vote, and that's use of BX and Commisary while on CAP orders and full use of the Military Clothing Sales Store (MCSS) to include online access.  And I say this as a veteran, member of the National Guard and 21 year member of CAP.

Quote from: Stonewall on April 19, 2008, 01:36:52 PM
Again, I reiterate my vote, and that's use of BX and Commissary while on CAP orders and full use of the Military Clothing Sales Store (MCSS) to include on line access.  And I say this as a veteran, member of the National Guard and 21 year member of CAP.

I am all for that.  When on CAP orders, you should be able to make use of the military benefits.  They were available to CAP members until "something" happened in the late 1970's.  I mean, come on (not to bash the Coast Guard AUX), but I think CAP members perform more missions then they do.  Yet, the Coast Guard (and Navy) treat the CGAUX with more respect by offering to them the benefits of shopping at their exchanges. 

-Side Note, I can't imagine losing my benefits if I were to leave the service.  I rely to much on them now as it is.  (in fact, I am off to the Commissary this morning, because they have an unadvertised case lot sale going on this weekend). 

Quote from: afgeo4 on April 19, 2008, 03:00:36 AM

Quote from: mikeylikey on April 19, 2008, 01:59:10 AM

Quote from: RAZOR on April 19, 2008, 12:57:17 AM
As an active member of the military I say no. BX privileges are reserved for those who are currently serving, their dependents and retired military. This is a privilege for those who have served and are serving. Sorry to be so blunt.

Put the shoe on the other foot, if CAP had a BX specifically designated for CAP, how would it feel for the those in the military to come in and take from you uniform supplies that you need or any other materials you might need? CAP has vanguard and you should use it.

Thats a very hard line stance.  I don't know of one instance where a CAP member purchased the last uniform item at MCSS and an enlisted guy got screwed over.   

The military community also has Vanguard......use it!

Quote from: capchiro on April 19, 2008, 01:26:58 AM
Does it make any difference to the topic, if CAP members are allowed Officer Club privileges?? 

The Clubs, consolidate clubs and enlisted clubs on most bases/ posts are open to civilians.  My local O-Club does not extend membership to anyone but military Officers (and I have to say that is a good thing, as Officers just like enlisted need a place to go vent without the other group around). The Consolidated club down the street offers CAP members membership, and the awesome Chase credit card that doubles as a club membership card.  The Clubs are disappearing from most posts/bases/stations.  They are desperate for people to join.  I think the local Commander is the ultimate authority on who is allowed to join or not. 

As far as exchange benefits go, letting CAP members shop there will not hugely impact the services they offer.   

How in the world did that service member get screwed over? That service member should have gone to Customer Service and placed an order for that item and would have received it in a couple of days without tax or shipping charges. The MCSS doesn't guarantee product to be in stock. It ain't Blockbuster.

Since the tennant units on a base share in the profits of the Exchange system, I fail to see how even a slight increase in business results in troops geting "Screwed over."

Quote from: mikeylikey on April 19, 2008, 01:56:44 PMI mean, come on (not to bash the Coast Guard AUX), but I think CAP members perform more missions then they do.  Yet, the Coast Guard (and Navy) treat the CGAUX with more respect by offering to them the benefits of shopping at their exchanges. 

I think the CGAUX is taken more seriously, more as a "brother in arms" thing, than CAP because of the cadet program.  They don't have kids (we all know I mean cadets) and can carry themselves a lot more professionally than we can when we show up to missions with the scrawny 13 year old draped with LBE dragging on the ground.  Perhaps the military as a whole just can't bare to give such privileges to a youth organization.  Just a thought.

I too use the Commisary BX (NEX in my case) on a weekly basis.  I hit the commisary a few times a month and the NEX at least once a week. 

Well, the CGAux also allows everyone to apply for CG tech school, in addition to the CG/Navy version of AFIADL, our ID cards look better and everyone can wear the uniform, but lets not make this a uniform thread.

Now Im not bashing CAP NHQ, I just think that we have yet to utilize both our full potential, and we (CAP) havent used the right person to approach the USAF about these things.

To clarify this poll:
What is the difference between these two:

All members, but only while performing official CAP duties (encampment, NSCAs, Prof Dev.)

&
BX while on official duty, MCSS 100% of the time, to include online.

??

Quote from: Stonewall on April 19, 2008, 02:44:12 PM
I too use the Commissary BX (NEX in my case) on a weekly basis.  I hit the commissary a few times a month and the NEX at least once a week. 

I have only been to one NEX and that was at Quantico.  I was not that impressed.  I do see that all the military exchanges are getting together and using the Military Star Card, and NEX/Marine Corps patrons can use the on line shopping provided by AAFES.

Perhaps a pilot program allowing those that work the VSAF program will get unlimited exchange benefits.  We can see how it goes from there.  I would also support that if CAP did get benefits, only CAP Officers, with CAP Cadets still limited to clothing and Sundry items only. 

Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on April 19, 2008, 03:55:46 PM

To clarify this poll:
What is the difference between these two:

All members, but only while performing official CAP duties (encampment, NSCAs, Prof Dev.)

&

BX while on official duty, MCSS 100% of the time, to include online.

I probably didn't phrase it very well since I added the fourth option last, but the last one just adds the full-time use of MCSS to include online ordering, something we can't do now.  Also, and I should have clarified this, but I would like to allow CAP members full use of the MCSS, not just for uniform items.

I remember as a new cadet in 1987 I visited my sister and bro-in-law at Ft. Meade, MD.  I went to the MCSS to buy field gear and they wouldn't let me.  I had to get my bro-in-law to go buy it for me with AD ID card.

As a senior in DC Wing, Ft. Belvoir would let us buy anything in their MCSS, gear, gore-tex, boots, glasses, packs; it didn't matter.   Our squadron had been there since the 60s or 70s and they knew who we were.  We had an excellent relationship with the base leadership. 

QuoteI mean, come on (not to bash the Coast Guard AUX), but I think CAP members perform more missions then they do.

Just a point of order -- the CG Aux doesn't think in terms of individual "missions" for the most part.  Since CAP doesn't keep track of members time like CG Aux does you can't really compare the amount of effort very well.  You can compare results of at least one CG Aux mission -- In 2007 the CG Aux saved 193 lives and provided non-livesaving assistance to 5,900 people.  About double CAP's count. 

One reason for not allowing unlimited AAFES/Services privilages is that the base commanders would not like to have all these "unauthorised" personnel on their base.

We have problems getting cadet's parents onto base sometime as it is.

Quote from: lordmonar on April 19, 2008, 08:50:43 PM
One reason for not allowing unlimited AAFES/Services privilages is that the base commanders would not like to have all these "unauthorised" personnel on their base.

We have problems getting cadet's parents onto base sometime as it is.

And that's exactly how I feel. If you're a member of CAP on official business, IN PROPER UNIFORM and utilizing base facilities under a military support authorization, then I have no problem with full BX privileges for the duration of the stay. Otherwise, it should be restricted to MCSS or other privileges (MWR) only as extended by the base/post commander. The potential for abuse is lurking around the corner. I wouldn't mind extending full online shopping privileges for uniforms only.

Way back when I was a wee young lad living in Venezuela (long before that S.O.B Chávez screwed up everything) my family had a connection from a family friend in the Venezuelan military who got us a year-long pass into IPSFA (Instituto de Prevision Social de las Fuerzas Armadas - Social Services Institute of the Armed Forces), the Venezuelan equivalent of AAFES.) The savings between IPSFA and the outside wasn't much.

Quote from: lordmonar on April 19, 2008, 08:50:43 PM
One reason for not allowing unlimited AAFES/Services privilages is that the base commanders would not like to have all these "unauthorised" personnel on their base.

We have problems getting cadet's parents onto base sometime as it is.

Having the ability to purchase things at AAFES while on CAP business doesn't mean that the base is required to let you on the facility.  It also doesn't mean CAP members are going to show up in droves to do their Sunday grocery shopping either.

Quote from: RAZOR on April 19, 2008, 12:57:17 AM
As an active member of the military I say no. BX privledges are reserved for those who are currently serving, their dependents and retired military. This is a privledge for those who have served and are serving. Sorry to be so blunt.

Put the shoe on the other foot, if CAP had a BX specifically designated for CAP, how would it feel for the those in the military to come in and take from you uniform supplies that you need or any other materials you might need? CAP has vanguard and you should use it.

Uhm... what?  Your example makes no sense.  CAP already is authorized to use the MCSS to purchase uniform items.  Unless of course you're advocating them revoking the existing privilege. 

Plus, I know it would put a real kink in an airman's life if they ran to the MCSS for an emergency stock up on blousing bands, and a CAP member had just taken the last 25¢ set!   :o


Pros to allowing CAP to use AAFES:

1.  More money flows to the local military units through increased AAFES sales.
2.  CAP members don't have to drive off-base while working on-base, just to buy a soda or get that needed pillow or bottle of tylenol during encampment, or whatever.


Cons to allowing CAP to use AAFES:

1.  Appearance that active military members, reservists, guardsman, retirees and their wives and children are having their benefits diluted by people who have not earned them.  Earning it by marriage or by happenstance of to whom you were born is still earning it.  Performing Air Force assigned missions without pay for hundreds of hours in a year does not qualify in the eyes of many.
2.  Increased chance of people on base seeing CAP members.  Could be bad, because we're embarrassed of some of our members and we don't want them seen by certain groups of people.  (Hmm...)


Frankly, CAP isn't going to get any AAFES benefits over the existing MCSS/uniforms provision.  While it's nice to dream, you might as well wish for unreal things like enough support to repair our aging vehicle fleet, the ability to draw uniform surplus from places like DRMO, JROTC and BMT washouts, or for your squadron to not have to hold bake sales to scrounge up enough money for training so they can provide a free service for our the community.  Dream on, kids.  ;)

Quote from: Pylon on April 20, 2008, 03:59:49 AM
Pros to allowing CAP to use AAFES:

1.  More money flows to the local military units through increased AAFES sales.

Please refresh me on how this works. How does money flow to the local military units?

Quote from: SarDragon on April 20, 2008, 06:19:55 AM

Quote from: Pylon on April 20, 2008, 03:59:49 AM
Pros to allowing CAP to use AAFES:

1.  More money flows to the local military units through increased AAFES sales.

Please refresh me on how this works. How does money flow to the local military units?

It doesn't. It flows back to AAFES and allows it to grow and provide better services for our military in CONUS and abroad.

That was aimed at the person who made the statement.

Quote from: Pylon on April 20, 2008, 03:59:49 AMFrankly, CAP isn't going to get any AAFES benefits over the existing MCSS/uniforms provision. 

And that's why I love this type of poll/discussion.  It's like my Utility Uniform thread, it will never move past the CAP Talk forum as it was just a casual "gee-wiz" type of suggestion among CAP Talkers, but some folks get very bent out of shape.  Most of the time, these polls are conducted just to see what folks think and it works.  It also works to get some folks fired up.   8)

Quote from: afgeo4 on April 20, 2008, 06:21:37 AM

Quote from: SarDragon on April 20, 2008, 06:19:55 AM

Quote from: Pylon on April 20, 2008, 03:59:49 AM
Pros to allowing CAP to use AAFES:

1.  More money flows to the local military units through increased AAFES sales.

Please refresh me on how this works. How does money flow to the local military units?

It doesn't. It flows back to AAFES and allows it to grow and provide better services for our military in CONUS and abroad.

Actaully profits over the costs go directly to the base or post MWR, so it really does go back to helping units and military members.  When I was at Sill, the AAFES operations donated enough to the MWR that a new gym was built and most if not all units got a donation to thier "flower funds".   

Quote from: Stonewall on April 18, 2008, 06:17:37 PM
From the Moody thread:

Quote from: afgeo4 on April 18, 2008, 06:13:05 PM
And extra people spending money at the BX would be bad how? The AAFES depends on spending to run their operations. The more people spend their money there, the better off AAFES is.

I find it wrong funny that the local BX/PX will let the local PD shop, but not Civil Air Patrol.

Not that I have a habit of following the AAFES profit margin, but I'm quite sure they do just fine without a few thousand CAPers running around.

I can picture it now, the 15-person CAP family we used to have in DC Wing in the 90s strolling through Andrews AFB BX with 5 carts like kids in a candy store.  Then, loading up the CAP van to go sell all the stuff they bought at a 15% mark up.

That's illegal - there's tax evasion in there.  Since BXs are on military installations, they're not subject to state sales tax.  At Ft Bragg, State Troopers used to watch for folks coming out of the Package Store.  They'd stop them just off post and go through their trunk.  If they had more than what they considered "personal use", they'd arrest them for trafficking untaxed booz. 

Same goes for what you described above.  The OSI would eventually catch up with them and CAP would be all over the papers, yet again.  Bad juju.

But, Jimmy Carter (my "favorite" president [/sarcasm] issued an executive order directing all on-base services to be similarly priced with the surrounding community.  So the price/profit motive kinda is moot. 

GC

Quote from: Pylon on April 20, 2008, 03:59:49 AM
Pros to allowing CAP to use AAFES:

1.  More money flows to the local military units through increased AAFES sales.

Local units get money from AAFES?

Quote from: Pylon on April 20, 2008, 03:59:49 AM
2.  CAP members don't have to drive off-base while working on-base, just to buy a soda or get that needed pillow or bottle of tylenol during encampment, or whatever.

a)  CAP folks or anyone for that matter, regardless of status, are allowed to eat at the commercial places on base such as McDonald's, Anthony's Pizza, BK, etc.

b) If CAP members are at an official CAP function and occupying government facilities for something such as Staff College or Encampment, then apparently they are allowed to use the BX/NEX/MCX/PX.

I just learned that from this thread.

Quote from: Pylon on April 20, 2008, 03:59:49 AM
Cons to allowing CAP to use AAFES:

1.  Performing Air Force assigned missions without pay for hundreds of hours in a year does not qualify in the eyes of many.

This is actually a problem I would have if CAP members had full bennies.  While a lot of CAP Talkers, Squadron Commanders, DCCs and the lifer ES folks out there are addicted to CAP and its missions, just like I used to be, these folks only make up about what, 15% of CAP?  Maybe 20%?  So, much like a ton of folks join CAP to get into the base flying club or use the CAP a/c for gaining hours but really don't contribute much to CAP, we'd have boat load of folks using the heck out of AAFES but maybe not even own a CAP uniform.  I don't think it's worth giving such a good benefit to everyone just becuase a small percentage of CAP lifers spend hundreds of hours doing something they enjoy for the Air Force.

Quote from: Pylon on April 20, 2008, 03:59:49 AM
2.  Increased chance of people on base seeing CAP members.  Could be bad, because we're embarrassed of some of our members and we don't want them seen by certain groups of people.  (Hmm...)

Chances are if CAP folks had BX privileges they wouldn't be in uniform while there unless they were doing something for CAP, so I don't think we'd gain too much notice.  And sadly, you are correct that some of our members are embarassing, but mostly that's because we don't instill the importance of conduct and proper wear of the military uniforms.

Quote from: Gunner C on April 20, 2008, 02:29:02 PM
That's illegal - there's tax evasion in there.  Since Bxs are on military installations, they're not subject to state sales tax.  At Ft Bragg, State Troopers used to watch for folks coming out of the Package Store.  They'd stop them just off post and go through their trunk.  If they had more than what they considered "personal use", they'd arrest them for trafficking untaxed booz. 

Wow, that would suck for the COPS and State.  I would get a lawyer and make the case I was going to have a party, and was stocking up.  I think I would win.  PLUS, Inst that entrapment and illegal search and seizure.  Did they have a guy on the FEDERAL Army Post reporting back to law enforcement off post? 

QuoteBut, Jimmy Carter (my "favorite" president [/sarcasm] issued an executive order directing all on-base services to be similarly priced with the surrounding community.  So the price/profit motive kinda is moot. 

Ummm.....until about 3 years ago booze and cigarettes were significantly cheaper than off post.  It was a DOD directive that said booze and cigarettes could only be 7 percent below off post prices. Prior to that a carton of Marlboro's cost 25 bucks, while off post it was in the 40 dollar range. 

Quote from: Stonewall on April 20, 2008, 02:36:05 PM
Local units get money from AAFES?

Quote from: SarDragon on April 20, 2008, 06:19:55 AM
Please refresh me on how this works. How does money flow to the local military units?

A portion of each sale is given to the Army and Air Force MWR programs at the installation where the sale was made.

http://www.aafes.com/pa/quickfacts/mission.htm

Quote from: Pylon on April 20, 2008, 03:59:49 AM
Earning it by marriage or by happenstance of to whom you were born is still earning it. 

Really?  Because as a former military dependent, I don't see how I earned anything just because of who my parents were.  I'd feel a lot better having privileges as a CAP member than as a dependent.

Quote from: Pylon on April 20, 2008, 09:16:32 PM

Quote from: Stonewall on April 20, 2008, 02:36:05 PM
Local units get money from AAFES?

Quote from: SarDragon on April 20, 2008, 06:19:55 AM
Please refresh me on how this works. How does money flow to the local military units?

A portion of each sale is given to the Army and Air Force MWR programs at the installation where the sale was made.

http://www.aafes.com/pa/quickfacts/mission.htm

Yeah, knew about the MWR thing, but you said "local units".  That was the reason for my question.

I worked part time for AAFES when I was at Ellsworth. I asked the Store Director about CAP having access to use the BX for everyday purchases and he told me, like any good business man, he had no problem with us using it. He then said in his opinion, if you have access to the base then their doors are open to you. That is why they did away with having someone standing at the door checking IDs when you came in. It made no sense to send you down the road for the same items you can get on base. If fact he went on to say if you buy gas at the pump and use you credit card how would they know anyway. The only thing he would be concern him would be buying and then reselling at a profit.

I think that CAP and AAFES should get together and approach the AF together. AAFES is not beyond feeling the economical situation like the retailers off base. In fact the number of military I know, shop at Wal Mart more than the BX and commissary. By inviting a new group of customers in would only help AAFES. Of course act the way you would as a professional there and not be demanding.

Quote from: Pylon on April 20, 2008, 09:16:32 PM

Quote from: Stonewall on April 20, 2008, 02:36:05 PM
Local units get money from AAFES?

Quote from: SarDragon on April 20, 2008, 06:19:55 AM
Please refresh me on how this works. How does money flow to the local military units?

A portion of each sale is given to the Army and Air Force MWR programs at the installation where the sale was made.

http://www.aafes.com/pa/quickfacts/mission.htm

And that, IMHO, isn't quite the same as "1.  More money flows to the local military units through increased AAFES sales."

The base population certainly benefits, but the individual units don't directly see any of that money. You could have stated it better at the outset.

BTW, the system works the same way on USN ans USMC bases.

BTW2, exchanges are non-appropriated funds activities, while the commissaries are appropriated funds activities, leading to differences in entitlements. The exchanges are much more open to "outsiders" than the commissaries.

Quote from: SarDragon on April 21, 2008, 12:35:18 AM
And that, IMHO, isn't quite the same as "1.  More money flows to the local military units through increased AAFES sales."

The base population certainly benefits, but the individual units don't directly see any of that money. You could have stated it better at the outset.

Yes, it could have been worded better.  It should have said something like "the local installation benefits from increased sales, through increased contributions to the local MWR programs."

Does it matter?  No.  Because sales won't be increased because the feeling is that the majority of CAP members don't deserve such "benefits."

Quote from: SarDragon on April 20, 2008, 06:19:55 AM

Quote from: Pylon on April 20, 2008, 03:59:49 AM
Pros to allowing CAP to use AAFES:

1.  More money flows to the local military units through increased AAFES sales.

Please refresh me on how this works. How does money flow to the local military units?

The "Profits" from the operations of the exchanges funds other non-appropriated fund activities such as MWR facilities.  Reserve units are paid a cash amount based on man-days the unit was on post which goes into the unit fund.

Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on April 18, 2008, 06:43:59 PM

Quote from: MIKE on April 18, 2008, 06:32:26 PM
As an Auxie I'm authorized patronage at Coast Guard Exchanges and MWR... Even says so on the back of my ID card.  IIRC the only limitations placed on me are no tobacco and alcohol, but at AAFES or NEX it's uniform items only just like CAP is currently.

I think CAP and the Auxiliary should be able to shop at AAFES etc without being restricted to just uniforms, but then again I don't live close enough to a BX or CG Exchange to take advantage or abuse the privelage... Maybe if that extended to shopping online?  I appreciate being authorized shop online for uniforms through UDC as an Auxie.

For the local CG Aux the CG privilige was extended to the BX at the State NG HQ and NTC Great Lakes - due to the fact that the nearest CG BX is like two days drive.
However, the Air Force BX at Scott AFB is still off limits.

Are there no BX facilities at Cal Harbor or Wilmette Island? I wouldnt make a drive from S. IL just to go there, but they are hardly two days drive.

Quote from: Pylon on April 21, 2008, 01:09:25 AM

Quote from: SarDragon on April 21, 2008, 12:35:18 AM
And that, IMHO, isn't quite the same as "1.  More money flows to the local military units through increased AAFES sales."

The base population certainly benefits, but the individual units don't directly see any of that money. You could have stated it better at the outset.

Yes, it could have been worded better.  It should have said something like "the local installation benefits from increased sales, through increased contributions to the local MWR programs."

Does it matter?  No.  Because sales won't be increased because the feeling is that the majority of CAP members don't deserve such "benefits."

Its just a hunch, but perhaps if we saw more respect-based "privileges" afforded to CAP members, then the members who fall in the "most" category might feel like they are viewed as part of something important and a valuable part of the Air Force establishment rather than red-headed stepchild volunteers who pay dearly for the "privilege" of doing jobs that the AD Air Force doesn't want.

Also, there have been comparisons made to USCG Auxies and the benefits given to them. Perhaps this is because the CG actually respects and "owns" the Aux as part of its various missions. As a possible "defector" to the CGAux, I gotta say I think the USAF could take a few lessons in a lot of different areas regarding auxiliary membership from the Coast Guard.

IF we had access to the PX, BX, or AAFES online, Vanguard would have alot of competition and just MAYBE get their act figured out.

BTW, I have access to AAFES online, being PS Army.  If you need anything, we can work out deals.

Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on April 21, 2008, 07:57:17 AM
IF we had access to the PX, BX, or AAFES online, Vanguard would have alot of competition and just MAYBE get their act figured out.

BTW, I have access to AAFES online, being PS Army.  If you need anything, we can work out deals.

Why would Vanguard have competition? Most of the insignia related stuff I've seen in the exchanges and uniform shops comes right from there.

Uniforms mostly.

I bought my Class C Dress Shirt at the local Coast Guard BX because they wear the same as the Air Force, and I got right on base with my CAP Photo ID and into the BX no problemo.

Quote

Wow, that would suck for the COPS and State.  I would get a lawyer and make the case I was going to have a party, and was stocking up.  I think I would win.  PLUS, Inst that entrapment and illegal search and seizure.  Did they have a guy on the FEDERAL Army Post reporting back to law enforcement off post? 

PLUS, entrapment is the last thing it would be. Entrapment is defined as enticing or coercing someone to do something illegal that they would not otherwise have a proclivity to do for the purposes of causing them to violate the law and/or make an arrest.  Also, most state troopers, who frequently search vehicles, are aware of how to avoid illegal search and seizure. Would you want to explain why you had a case of Jack Daniels, no military ID and none of your bottles had tax stamps? Besides, anyone who has taken Constitutional Law 101 knows that there are only about a million ways to establish probable cause to search your vehicle and as a former criminal law paralegal, I can tell you that just about all of them will stand up in court.

Quote from: mikeylikey on April 20, 2008, 04:42:39 PM

Quote from: Gunner C on April 20, 2008, 02:29:02 PM
That's illegal - there's tax evasion in there.  Since Bxs are on military installations, they're not subject to state sales tax.  At Ft Bragg, State Troopers used to watch for folks coming out of the Package Store.  They'd stop them just off post and go through their trunk.  If they had more than what they considered "personal use", they'd arrest them for trafficking untaxed booz.

Wow, that would suck for the COPS and State.  I would get a lawyer and make the case I was going to have a party, and was stocking up.  I think I would win.  PLUS, Inst that entrapment and illegal search and seizure.  Did they have a guy on the FEDERAL Army Post reporting back to law enforcement off post? 

Well, that was NC but you get the picture. 

Quote

QuoteBut, Jimmy Carter (my "favorite" president [/sarcasm] issued an executive order directing all on-base services to be similarly priced with the surrounding community.  So the price/profit motive kinda is moot. 

Ummm.....until about 3 years ago booze and cigarettes were significantly cheaper than off post.  It was a DOD directive that said booze and cigarettes could only be 7 percent below off post prices. Prior to that a carton of Marlboro's cost 25 bucks, while off post it was in the 40 dollar range. 

Glad to see that the military is adhering, even surpassing, the intent of that idiot commander-in-chief.  :D

Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on April 21, 2008, 07:57:17 AM
IF we had access to the PX, BX, or AAFES online, Vanguard would have alot of competition and just MAYBE get their act figured out.

Not really: Vanguard has pretty much gotten away from selling USAF-style clothing items.

Quote from: SARMedTech on April 21, 2008, 08:24:31 AM

Quote

Wow, that would suck for the COPS and State.  I would get a lawyer and make the case I was going to have a party, and was stocking up.  I think I would win.  PLUS, Inst that entrapment and illegal search and seizure.  Did they have a guy on the FEDERAL Army Post reporting back to law enforcement off post? 

PLUS, entrapment is the last thing it would be. Entrapment is defined as enticing or coercing someone to do something illegal that they would not otherwise have a proclivity to do for the purposes of causing them to violate the law and/or make an arrest.  Also, most state troopers, who frequently search vehicles, are aware of how to avoid illegal search and seizure. Would you want to explain why you had a case of Jack Daniels, no military ID and none of your bottles had tax stamps? Besides, anyone who has taken Constitutional Law 101 knows that there are only about a million ways to establish probable cause to search your vehicle and as a former criminal law paralegal, I can tell you that just about all of them will stand up in court.

Sorry, all my legal training comes from watching JAG on Television (lawyers shooting terrorists and flying F-16's, gotta love it). 

I would have a military ID, and I would say I was hosting a party.  What could they possibly charge me with?  PLUS, it would be handled by the military courts if I am not mistaken.  Now.....a civilian, buying 300 cases of jack....thats a different story. 

PLUS, wouldn't trafficking untaxed alcohol fall under Federal law, not state. 

(Mikey is by no means a lawyer as is very apparent, but I can see injustice in pulling everyone over that happened to be a customer of the CLASS 6 on a particular day). 

The NC Troopers have a tough row to hoe proving that the liquor was intended for re-sale.  Simply buying more than an arbitrary amount considered "Personal use" does not prove intent to re-sell.  My son is getting married.  Holidays are coming and I have a lot of friends.  I only go to the class 6 once every 6 months.  I'm a drunk... got a problem with that, Trooper?

My guess is that the Troopers are focusing their efforts on:

1.  People buying large amounts of booze who also own liquor-licensed establishments.

2.  People who buy large amounts every week, although all this will do is trigger further investigation.

3.  People who cannot agree among the occupants of a vehicle what the liquor is for.  Which of the above explantions is the operative one?

Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on April 21, 2008, 03:00:26 PM
I'm a drunk... got a problem with that, Trooper?

Only if you're behind the wheel......

Back to the subject at-hand: even the CGAUX, who can buy items other than mil clothing, are restricted from purchasing cigarettes and alcohol (b/t/w, they CG exchange extends the same priviliges to CAP as they do to it's own Aux.)

As for the BX, many folks who shop/have shopped there have given blood sweat and tears at nasty faraway places in the performance of their duties, and their families often do without on a number of different levels.  IMHO, in deference to them I wouldn't encroach on their entitlements if its not offered: the small savings just isn't be worth it for me.

As for the BX being a benifit for our (AD military) sacrfice.....I have got to say in the last 22 years I have seen that drain away.  As for letting CAP have full access....six of one and half dozen of the other.

I don't see it happening just because of buracracy...but I don't think anyone in the miliatry really cares that much about letting others in on the good deal....so long as it does not take away from us.

Pragmatically; with the exception of being on official duty like RSC, why would we even need it?

Desire (despite what pop culture implies) does not equate with necessity. Therefore I see little need to change from the current rules. Are we members of CAP for the perks, or for the higher good of our community?

Quote from: lordmonar on April 21, 2008, 05:52:25 PM
As for the BX being a benifit for our (AD military) sacrfice.....I have got to say in the last 22 years I have seen that drain away.  As for letting CAP have full access....six of one and half dozen of the other.

I don't see it happening just because of buracracy...but I don't think anyone in the miliatry really cares that much about letting others in on the good deal....so long as it does not take away from us.

Unfortunately, we've shot ourselves in the foot more than once, and lost what was a good thing.

Quote from: flyerthom on April 21, 2008, 05:57:57 PM

Pragmatically; with the exception of being on official duty like RSC, why would we even need it?

Desire (despite what pop culture implies) does not equate with necessity. Therefore I see little need to change from the current rules. Are we members of CAP for the perks, or for the higher good of our community?

It's a nice bonus for our hard work.  We save the AF, and thus the millitary, a substancial ammount of money, and it is a way of saying thank you.

I don't know about you, but I am here for quite a number of reasons; although the perks are not high on the list, they are there. 

That being said, name me one place where letting CAP have regular and full access to the PB/BX would cause such a drain that the average military member would notice.  I would really like to know.

Given that the overwhelming majority of CAP members live so far from any AF base that they are unlikely to ever visit one except for encampment or a few other purposes, I don't see that it would make much difference.  A few dozens squadrons here and there that might have a couple of members that would put up with the hassle of going on base, and thats about it.   Doesn't seem really worth the hassle to set up a system to allow full CAP use. 

The only times I have ever really purchased from the BX was when I was a civilian contractor on base.   On one occasion I was killing time waiting for MCSS to open and just happened to find something I wanted.   On all occasions, I was never asked for any ID - it was like checking out at Wal-Mart.    Despite the signs requesting that you show ID when not in uniform, no one seemed to care.   This is at 3 or 4 bases now.   

I've also never been questioned when buying non-uniform items at MCSS, even when I *HAVE* been asked for ID.   

Quote from: JoeTomasone on April 22, 2008, 03:47:40 AM
The only times I have ever really purchased from the BX was when I was a civilian contractor on base.   On one occasion I was killing time waiting for MCSS to open and just happened to find something I wanted.   On all occasions, I was never asked for any ID - it was like checking out at Wal-Mart.    Despite the signs requesting that you show ID when not in uniform, no one seemed to care.   This is at 3 or 4 bases now.   

I've also never been questioned when buying non-uniform items at MCSS, even when I *HAVE* been asked for ID.

Not sure if it varies with the branch, but down here, they ask for your Mil ID at MCAS Miramar (both the BX and commissary).

Spacing - MIKE

Quote from: PhoenixCadet on April 22, 2008, 03:51:45 AM
Not sure if it varies with the branch, but down here, they ask for your Mil ID at MCAS Miramar (both the BX and commissary).

Beats me - these have been USAF bases in different parts of the US.   

At Scott AFB (AMC/ Transcom) CAP members do not have access to the BX, pumps, or class 6 and the MCSS asks for our IDs at the register. However... the golf course, bowling alley, and O-Club greet us with open arms. (however, while we can use the golf course and bowling alley the fitness center doesnt allow us in)

I learned all this at SLS/CLC. I live an hour and a half from Scott and Im only down there for related events.

Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on April 22, 2008, 08:42:14 PM
At Scott AFB (AMC/ Transcom) CAP members do not have access to the BX, pumps, or class 6 and the MCSS asks for our IDs at the register. However... the golf course, bowling alley, and O-Club greet us with open arms. (however, while we can use the golf course and bowling alley the fitness center doesnt allow us in)

Heh.  Scott was one of the bases I was talking about.  I spent a lot of time there in '06/'07 as a civ contractor.

Quote from: capchiro on April 19, 2008, 01:26:58 AM
Does it make any difference to the topic, if CAP members are allowed Officer Club provileges??  With the drawdown in size in the military, I would think that the BX's and Commissaries would be looking for the business that CAP members could bring to them.  Don't talk to a veteran about earning it, when he has been there and done that and is now donating his time for free to assist the Air Force.  Anything that the military can extend to us without cost to them should be done.  Some CAP members spend as much time if not more assisting CAP as non-activated reservist and national guardsmen.  And, let's not forget, CAP members are not compensated for a valuable service. 

Uhh I would feel unwelcomed in the officers club not because of rank but because of the civilian status maybe an all ranks club or the enlisted club.

Quote from: colorguard_rifle on April 27, 2008, 10:37:20 PM
Uhh I would feel unwelcomed in the officers club not because of rank but because of the civilian status maybe an all ranks club or the enlisted club.

Why do you think you would feel more "welcomed" in a consolidated mess or an enlisted club? 

Most O-clubs allow Govt civilians membership if they are a GS-7 (or whatever the new system is that equals the old GS-7).  At least all the Posts/ Bases I have been to do. Since CAP members are considered a GS-7 for insurance purposes on AFAM's, I think that could transfer over to joining the club. 

Either way I know many CAP members who have joined the AF club at my local base, and signed up for the Chase mastercard (that doubles as the membership card) and put CAP on the application.     

Quote from: mikeylikey on April 27, 2008, 11:22:00 PM
Most O-clubs allow Govt civilians membership if they are a GS-7 (or whatever the new system is that equals the old GS-7).  At least all the Posts/ Bases I have been to do. Since CAP members are considered a GS-7 for insurance purposes on AFAM's, I think that could transfer over to joining the club.

::Off topic, but...::

It was actually GS-9.

CAPR 900-5:
"14. FECA Benefits. FECA benefits for paid federal employees are computed on a percentage of actual salary. There is a special provision in the FECA law that makes CAP volunteers "federal employees" and "presumes" that the CAP member is paid at a GS 9, Step 1 level"

^ I sit corrected.  Thank you. 

Even better.....more $$