I got called out on a mission today. Standard ELT, non-distress, relatively routine. Here's the thing - there were 3 squadrons deployed. One other squadron had been working on the signal for a while when we got in the area, and I personally saw it as somewhat of a race to find the beacon before they did (in the end, the other squadron did). The whole thing got me thinking - is it alright to make finding an ELT a race? I mean this in a sense of healthy competition between squadrons. Is it alright to make a sort of gentleman's challenge on finding it first? Could this add an extra sense of urgency and alertness to the mission crews? Or does this take away from the objectivity of the search? Safety concerns?
I was going to say that there is nothing wrong with a little competition, but then I got to thinking. If different teams are competing, especially on real missions, they may become hesitant to share info. In real missions, the different teams should be sharing info and coordinating to find the ELT in the shortest time, REGARDLESS OF WHICH TEAM FINDS IT.
Of course, there will always be some friendly rivalry. However, once it starts impacting the efficiency of operations, it becomes a bad thing.
I would see it quite the opposite. I do not beleive that a friendly contest would be benefical on an actual mission. But, that is MHO.
Thinking that a may have been on ground say 10 hours doing the hard part of narrowing down the signal to a related grid/search parameter, then a fresh group comes in an finds it would be almost a source of resentment.
Now if the fresh crew comes in and would do all the some functions from the beginning, so be it.
I DO NOT have a problem with this on a training mission.
If one of your teams crashed a vehicle, withheld information from another team, or god-forbid, intentionally mislead another team you would be strung up by the yardarm when it was discovered. Especiallly with an actual distress mission. Remember too, that just because you think it is going to be a non-distress mission, you could be wrong. It happens often. Save the races for ground teams on training exercises.
Major Lord
I concur with davedove. Convening with another ground team can improve chances a lot.
Competitions may also lead to inappropriate behavior in the recovery stage.
Quote from: ammotrucker on January 07, 2008, 01:42:22 PM
I DO NOT have a problem with this on a training mission.
Ditto, but real-world its got to be a coordinated / shared effort to find it FAST, not FIRST.
In fact there really should be direction form a GBD or the IC to the field as to who goes where for best coverage, etc.
Seems a little odd to deploye that many teams for an ELT signal (unless there was other information about a possible crash). The replacement team for the 1st one makes sense, but adding in a third team seems like an unusual call.
Sounds cool for a SAREX, as long as safety parameters are observed.
Quote from: RiverAux on January 08, 2008, 12:23:57 AM
Seems a little odd to deploye that many teams for an ELT signal (unless there was other information about a possible crash). The replacement team for the 1st one makes sense, but adding in a third team seems like an unusual call.
It was in an area of the state with no CAP squadron. One came from the west, we came from the east, and the third team is fresh meat. IC probably decided to give them a feet wetting opportunity (although they never made it to the search area; hour and a half scramble time). It was also a pretty wide search area, lots of airports, lots of ground to cover.
I don't like competition unless the ELT hunt is set up as a "SAR Games" activity. In a designated training/practice situation (and obviously on actual missions) the only race should be against the clock as a "Strike Force" to use ICS terminology. If one team triangulating helps another team get to the ELT faster then THAT is the real goal (with safety always kept in mind). I'm a firm believer in training the way you operate, and the real mission is getting the find for the mission as a whole, not a race for glory or bragging rights. When someone starts "bragging" it's time to worry about their effectiveness as part of an overall team.
Quote from: JRChristenson on January 13, 2008, 04:07:00 AM
I don't like competition unless the ELT hunt is set up as a "SAR Games" activity.
We had a UDF challenge here a while back. 6 teams with 6 ELT sites far enough apart that they didn't interfere with each other (to ground stations anyway). You arrived at each station and at the top of the hour were allowed to turn your DF equipment on. When you located the ELT (or positively identified the location if it was inaccessible) the time stoped. If you were wrong or did not find it in 30 minutes, you were listed at 45 minutes and sent to the next location. Most of the courses were on foot although one did involve a vehicle. Speeding or running were not allowed and that was enforced by the person stationed at each station. At the end of the day, all of your times were added up and the team with the lowest combined time won; we were only beaten by the defending champions.
Was this kind of what you had in mind?
Well not really, I was talking about multiple ground teams, 1 beacon, real mission.
Yeah, in my opinion (retail value= $0.01) That type of activity that is properly set up can be fun and be a chance to hone skills under pressure... but in a SAREX or training weekend I think the idea of teamwork needs to be more enforced. When it comes to real missions, I think "competing" should be grounds for having you qualifications voided, it's just inefficient, unprofessional, and ultimately unsafe for both the searchers and the victims.
Quote from: floridacyclist on January 25, 2008, 03:17:27 PM
Quote from: JRChristenson on January 13, 2008, 04:07:00 AM
I don't like competition unless the ELT hunt is set up as a "SAR Games" activity.
We had a UDF challenge here a while back. 6 teams with 6 ELT sites far enough apart that they didn't interfere with each other (to ground stations anyway). You arrived at each station and at the top of the hour were allowed to turn your DF equipment on. When you located the ELT (or positively identified the location if it was inaccessible) the time stoped. If you were wrong or did not find it in 30 minutes, you were listed at 45 minutes and sent to the next location. Most of the courses were on foot although one did involve a vehicle. Speeding or running were not allowed and that was enforced by the person stationed at each station. At the end of the day, all of your times were added up and the team with the lowest combined time won; we were only beaten by the defending champions.
Was this kind of what you had in mind?