I have individuals that want to donate a not insignificant amount of equipment. However, they want to be 100% certain that the equipment will be:
A)used by the squadron it is given to
B)NOT transferred to another squadron
C)If no longer deemed useful to the squadron, returned to the donating org.
They are not concerned about the items being recorded as "donations."
What is the way to accomplish this?
Contact your wing Director of Logistics to start. It sounds like they want to loan (or do a $0.00 cost lease) your unit the equipment. Great idea in principle, but will need legal consultation especially concerning adequate storage, damage coverage, and, depending on the type of equipment, liability.
Please keep us posted how it works out. I know other folks thinking of the same things. There should be a way to donate to a Squadron without worry of it being stolen away by Wing.
Are the regs silent on this?
Quote from: etodd on January 21, 2018, 04:32:07 PM
Please keep us posted how it works out. I know other folks thinking of the same things. There should be a way to donate to a Squadron without worry of it being stolen away by Wing.
For 30 years I've heard people repeat "Don't donate XXYY, because Wing will just come in and steal it."
I been to one World's Fair, a picnic and a rodeo, and I ain't never seen it. I've only ever heard the apocryphal "Wing will steal your property."
Can anybody point to a legitimate (as in "I was the unit commander when Wing came in and took our unit property..") situation where this has occurred?
Apart from a unit being deactivated and all assets of that unit going "elsewhere" per the regulation (I mean, where else would it go, right?), or a circumstance where something that really can't be "owned" under the regulations by a unit such as a vehicle or an airplane was donated, I'd like someone to legitimately tell me when this has occurred.
Speaking as a former Deputy Director of Logistics for California Wing, I've never seen Wing or Group swoop in and take away CAP property for no reason.
Example:
The Squadron in Palm Springs, California had a vehicle donated to the squadron.
One of the stipulations of the donation was that the vehicle had to stay at that unit.
Wing legal drew up a contract, everybody signed it and all was golden.
Best solution to the problem, get Wing Legal involved right from the start. They'll have to sign off on it anyway.
As a current WG/LG, I've only heard the stories told down through generations, nothing first hand. I've told units if they buy something with unit funds or get it donated, wing won't take it - unless the unit gets deactivated. (Did the same as WG/DC previously). I've had wing commanders back me up on this. Hence, talk to your wing LG.
Quote from: arajca on January 21, 2018, 05:59:58 PM
As a current WG/LG, I've only heard the stories told down through generations, nothing first hand. I've told units if they buy something with unit funds or get it donated, wing won't take it - unless the unit gets deactivated. (Did the same as WG/DC previously). I've had wing commanders back me up on this. Hence, talk to your wing LG.
Are the regs silent on this subject?
Quote from: Cicero on January 21, 2018, 07:58:13 PM
Quote from: arajca on January 21, 2018, 05:59:58 PM
As a current WG/LG, I've only heard the stories told down through generations, nothing first hand. I've told units if they buy something with unit funds or get it donated, wing won't take it - unless the unit gets deactivated. (Did the same as WG/DC previously). I've had wing commanders back me up on this. Hence, talk to your wing LG.
Are the regs silent on this subject?
You know, this is the SECOND time today you've asked this question. Maybe a bit of Regs research on your part?
Quote from: PHall on January 21, 2018, 08:01:46 PM
Quote from: Cicero on January 21, 2018, 07:58:13 PM
Quote from: arajca on January 21, 2018, 05:59:58 PM
As a current WG/LG, I've only heard the stories told down through generations, nothing first hand. I've told units if they buy something with unit funds or get it donated, wing won't take it - unless the unit gets deactivated. (Did the same as WG/DC previously). I've had wing commanders back me up on this. Hence, talk to your wing LG.
Are the regs silent on this subject?
You know, this is the SECOND time today you've asked this question. Maybe a bit of Regs research on your part?
Indeed it is. Since people with knowledge have weighed in, asking them for guidance seemed reasonable. Your thoughtful and respectful contributions are always a joy - thank you!
Quote from: Cicero on January 21, 2018, 08:07:45 PM
Quote from: PHall on January 21, 2018, 08:01:46 PM
Quote from: Cicero on January 21, 2018, 07:58:13 PM
Quote from: arajca on January 21, 2018, 05:59:58 PM
As a current WG/LG, I've only heard the stories told down through generations, nothing first hand. I've told units if they buy something with unit funds or get it donated, wing won't take it - unless the unit gets deactivated. (Did the same as WG/DC previously). I've had wing commanders back me up on this. Hence, talk to your wing LG.
Are the regs silent on this subject?
You know, this is the SECOND time today you've asked this question. Maybe a bit of Regs research on your part?
Indeed it is. Since people with knowledge have weighed in, asking them for guidance seemed reasonable. Your thoughtful and respectful contributions are always a joy - thank you!
Go take a look at CAPR 173-4. (Lead the horse to water..... ::) )
Generally, a donation with stipulations as to who, what, where, when, and how, with right to demand recall, is not really a donation, is it? More like a loan. It should be documented as such.
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Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on January 22, 2018, 07:12:53 AM
Generally, a donation with stipulations as to who, what, where, when, and how, with right to demand recall, is not really a donation, is it? More like a loan. It should be documented as such.
In non-profit development-speak, thats a "restricted donation."
There are some pretty specific rules that get followed for that sort of thing.
Quote from: NIN on January 21, 2018, 05:35:47 PM
Quote from: etodd on January 21, 2018, 04:32:07 PM
Please keep us posted how it works out. I know other folks thinking of the same things. There should be a way to donate to a Squadron without worry of it being stolen away by Wing.
For 30 years I've heard people repeat "Don't donate XXYY, because Wing will just come in and steal it."
I been to one World's Fair, a picnic and a rodeo, and I ain't never seen it. I've only ever heard the apocryphal "Wing will steal your property."
Can anybody point to a legitimate (as in "I was the unit commander when Wing came in and took our unit property..") situation where this has occurred?
Apart from a unit being deactivated and all assets of that unit going "elsewhere" per the regulation (I mean, where else would it go, right?), or a circumstance where something that really can't be "owned" under the regulations by a unit such as a vehicle or an airplane was donated, I'd like someone to legitimately tell me when this has occurred.
Yes.
Unit lost a cargo trailer that was donated to the unit.
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on February 06, 2018, 01:59:46 AM
Yes.
Unit lost a cargo trailer that was donated to the unit.
Finally! Hallelujah! 8)
So the unit had a cargo trailer donated directly to the unit (for ES, I'm guessing?) and wing came in and said 'Yeah, no, we want this..'?
It really rather simple, any donation can't be restricted as it is a donation to the Corporation. Units do not own anything, including their bank account. That being said, National, Regions and Wings are not in the habit of taking items away from units, unless that are not being used or the unit is deactivated. We can't accept loans and mark it CAP.