CAP Officers Behaving Badly Poll

[Smokey]

I am a regular at Edwards AFB for meetings and landings as the CAP DO for shuttle ops.  My normal uniform is flight suit as that is uniform of the day there. I do not  "troll" for salutes, but have been routinely saluted by AF, Army, Marine and Navy personnel.  I always smartly return the salute and if not saluted say nothing.  I always salute those above me in grade from any service.
I have been treated no differently than any other military member, but never demand such.

On the last shuttle landing the Air Boss (Army CW4) kept referring to doing things for the colonel.  It took me a while before I figured out he was referring to me ( I made Lt Col this past July). And The Brig Gen congratulated me on my promotion in front of the shuttle team at the EOM brief which included NASA, Army , AF, and Navy folks and I was treaated as an equel.

My shuttle team is also treated the same way, because I only choose those who look and act professionally.  Should any of them act "Badly" they will be off the team.  The same will apply to those I schedule for the Surrogate Predator program.  Either look and act like a professional or you won't participate.

[James Shaw]

Either look and act like a professional or you won't participate.

100% allright and amen.

[Smithsonia]

On my ground team... Lost hikers best be snappy and correct with their salutes, or we leave them where we find them. Is that so bad?

[DG]

I am a regular at Edwards AFB for meetings and landings as the CAP DO for shuttle ops.  My normal uniform is flight suit as that is uniform of the day there. I do not  "troll" for salutes, but have been routinely saluted by AF, Army, Marine and Navy personnel.  I always smartly return the salute and if not saluted say nothing.  I always salute those above me in grade from any service.
I have been treated no differently than any other military member, but never demand such.

On the last shuttle landing the Air Boss (Army CW4) kept referring to doing things for the colonel.  It took me a while before I figured out he was referring to me ( I made Lt Col this past July). And The Brig Gen congratulated me on my promotion in front of the shuttle team at the EOM brief which included NASA, Army , AF, and Navy folks and I was treaated as an equel.

My shuttle team is also treated the same way, because I only choose those who look and act professionally.  Should any of them act "Badly" they will be off the team.  The same will apply to those I schedule for the Surrogate Predator program.  Either look and act like a professional or you won't participate.

When you say "CAP DO," do you mean for CAWG or National?

[Rotorhead]

On my ground team... Lost hikers best be snappy and correct with their salutes, or we leave them where we find them. Is that so bad?

I wanted to bill them, but Nooooo

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Either look and act like a professional or you won't participate.

100% allright and amen.

I'm with you on that, too. And to add to that, what you look like DOES affect how you play with others. If you're squared away and present situational awareness, you'll do just fine; if you're a slob and aren't paying attention, or you're too busy babysitting unruly cadets, you'll be shunned.

[RiverAux]

Okay, it appears our little CAPTalk poll (insert standard caveats about this sort of poll) seems to agree with my impression that the sort of behaviour that would seem to be a major problem based on the times it is mentioned in various discussions here is quite rare. 

NBow, the fact that about 10% of us have seen such behavior is nothing to crow about.  Of course this should never happen at all, in particular a CAP officer trying to pull rank on someone in the military, but it doesn't seem to be at such levels that it should impact decisions that are made on uniform wear, rank systems, etc. 

At worst it indicates that we might want to beef up the sections in our iniital member training on these issues and hammer home the wrongness of such behavior. 

[RADIOMAN015]

NBow, the fact that about 10% of us have seen such behavior is nothing to crow about.  Of course this should never happen at all, in particular a CAP officer trying to pull rank on someone in the military, but it doesn't seem to be at such levels that it should impact decisions that are made on uniform wear, rank systems, etc. 

At worst it indicates that we might want to beef up the sections in our iniital member training on these issues and hammer home the wrongness of such behavior.

Well there is a "wanna bee" crowd in CAP, they love to wear flight suits where wearing a golf shirt & gray pants would work just fine (or mandatory wear of the blue flight suit), or wear all those other AF uniforms (especially the BDU's), to look AF AUX so to speak.

Unfortunately, those in the "real" Air Force that have a "bad" experience with CAP, may not forget it, and you just never know what rank/position they will hold in the future that may affect CAP in a negative way.  Right now there isn't too much in the new member's orientation on this but I would agree that it should be stressed. 

We don't need "wanna bee" in CAP, but we do need volunteers committed to helping us successfully fulfill our 3 major missions.
RM
     

[flyerthom]

Well there is a "wanna bee" crowd in CAP, they love to wear flight suits where wearing a golf shirt & gray pants would work just fine (or mandatory wear of the blue flight suit), or wear all those other AF uniforms (especially the BDU's), to look AF AUX so to speak.
...
We don't need "wanna bee" in CAP, but we do need volunteers committed to helping us successfully fulfill our 3 major missions.
RM
     

Unfortunately, any organization the is worth doing will attract the wannabee element. Even the Marines just nailed an actual marine for inflating his war record an bling count. Fire and EMS has it's whacker (woo woo) types who hang $2000 blue light bars on $500 pick ups.  We need emphasise our roll in mentoring and hopefully discourage wannabee behaviors. Plus  we need to police ourselves to correct the ones we have.

[flyguy06]

Well there is a "wanna bee" crowd in CAP, they love to wear flight suits where wearing a golf shirt & gray pants would work just fine (or mandatory wear of the blue flight suit), or wear all those other AF uniforms (especially the BDU's), to look AF AUX so to speak.
...
We don't need "wanna bee" in CAP, but we do need volunteers committed to helping us successfully fulfill our 3 major missions.
RM
     

Unfortunately, any organization the is worth doing will attract the wannabee element. Even the Marines just nailed an actual marine for inflating his war record an bling count. Fire and EMS has it's whacker (woo woo) types who hang $2000 blue light bars on $500 pick ups.  We need emphasise our roll in mentoring and hopefully discourage wannabee behaviors. Plus  we need to police ourselves to correct the ones we have.

I take exception to that. I like wearing the flight suit and military uniforms and I dont own the blue golf shirt and I am hardly a wanna bee. Why is a person called a name because they want to look like an auxillary of a military organization? Do tou call Coast Guard auxilarist wanna bees? Do you call State defense Force personnel wanna bees? Do you call volunteer Firefighters and reserve police officers wanna bees? Whats the difference? I joined a military organization. thus I want o look miliytary. The USAF and the general public expect it.

[RRLE]

my impression that the sort of behaviour that would seem to be a major problem based on the times it is mentioned in various discussions here is quite rare. 

NBow, the fact that about 10% of us have seen such behavior is nothing to crow about.

I don't know where you get your 10% from. The first 3 categories in your poll total to 32.6%. Most would not consider 10% (your figure) occurence 'quite rare'. That adjective would normally be reserved for the low single digits. And a few tenths of a percentage point off 1/3 is by no means quite rare or rare.

[RRLE]

Do tou call Coast Guard auxilarist wanna bees?

The wannabee charge is often tossed around by Auxies on their main discussion board. It may happen more there then on CAP boards since the Aux as an institution is much more civilian then CAP. For example, Auxie don't salute each other and they don't use military titles when addressing the leadership. Only the District Commodores and higher are addressed by title and there is no recourse if you don't use their titles.

Do you call State defense Force personnel wanna bees?

Do I - no. But the charge does appear on a regular basis on SDF boards. A few years ago,  the SGAUS (State Guard Association of the US) President made a statement that it was a good thing that most SDFs were unarmed. He said it helped reduce the wannabee element.

[RiverAux]

I don't know where you get your 10% from.

That was in reference to the CAP officer trying to pull rank which is the only one of these that I consider serious (yes, I was rounding down slightly). 

[billford1]

Okay, it appears our little CAPTalk poll (insert standard caveats about this sort of poll) seems to agree with my impression that the sort of behaviour that would seem to be a major problem based on the times it is mentioned in various discussions here is quite rare. 

NBow, the fact that about 10% of us have seen such behavior is nothing to crow about.  Of course this should never happen at all, in particular a CAP officer trying to pull rank on someone in the military, but it doesn't seem to be at such levels that it should impact decisions that are made on uniform wear, rank systems, etc. 

At worst it indicates that we might want to beef up the sections in our iniital member training on these issues and hammer home the wrongness of such behavior.

Our last PDO was a retired AF LTC who shared with us what is expected of CAP Officers with regard to Military Customs and Courtesies , and that we need to professional and respectable.

[flyerthom]

Well there is a "wanna bee" crowd in CAP, they love to wear flight suits where wearing a golf shirt & gray pants would work just fine (or mandatory wear of the blue flight suit), or wear all those other AF uniforms (especially the BDU's), to look AF AUX so to speak.
...
We don't need "wanna bee" in CAP, but we do need volunteers committed to helping us successfully fulfill our 3 major missions.
RM
     

Unfortunately, any organization the is worth doing will attract the wannabee element. Even the Marines just nailed an actual marine for inflating his war record an bling count. Fire and EMS has it's whacker (woo woo) types who hang $2000 blue light bars on $500 pick ups.  We need emphasise our roll in mentoring and hopefully discourage wannabee behaviors. Plus  we need to police ourselves to correct the ones we have.

I take exception to that. I like wearing the flight suit and military uniforms and I dont own the blue golf shirt and I am hardly a wanna bee. Why is a person called a name because they want to look like an auxillary of a military organization? Do tou call Coast Guard auxilarist wanna bees? Do you call State defense Force personnel wanna bees? Do you call volunteer Firefighters and reserve police officers wanna bees? Whats the difference? I joined a military organization. thus I want o look miliytary. The USAF and the general public expect it.

There is a critical difference between wearing uniforms properly / holding a standard and inflating your importance.
That seemed to be the entire point of the pole. A wannabee puts the uniform on for themselves. Most members (you in particular) put the uniform on in service. A member puts the uniform on in pride. A wannabee puts the uniform on in hubris.

My apologies for the lack of clarity. You are not a target or a wannabee.   In years of volunteer ambulance service I've dealt with both kinds.  The classic wannabee is someone who's reason to be there is Look at Me I'm so cool! These are the guys who get EMS people hurt. They're the guys who try to R Lee Ermey the cadets. They're the Stolen Valor guys.

Your not one of these. But CAP does attract some of these. It is our responsibility to police these types and either mentor them away from such behaviors or discourage them from coming on board to start.

[wuzafuzz]

It's not accurate to make assumptions about the motivations of others based solely on their uniform choice.

I sometimes wear BDU's when a polo uniform would do, simply because I got the BDU's for free.  Why buy yet another polo shirt uniform when I don't have to?  I'm not going to drop the cash for another polo just to avoid wannabe stones being thrown my way.

Finally though, as long as a member behaves within reasonable limits why should we give a rodent's backside what their internal motivations are?   The only issue should be observed behavior.   Who cares if someone secretly digs their captains bars but maintains their cool and contributes?

[Spike]

Here is how I see it, and you can let me know if I am totally off base.

We are given the multiple options in uniform wear because we voluntarily give up our time, money and resources to support the Community and Air Force.  It is a privilege granted to us, and as long as we continue to act professional and do our assigned duties the best way we can, we will continue to wear AF style uniforms.  Now, CAP corporate uniforms are not different.  They carry with them the same responsibilities. 

I am sick hearing one group or another bash each other over uniform wear. 

I know this is about CAP Officers behaving badly, well.....they can also behave badly toward each other, and that was not on the poll.

I wear what I want, as long as it is comfortable, clean and makes me look good! 

Don't forget, it is NEVER what uniform you wear, but "can you get the job done", that most people are interested in.

As far as trolling for salutes.......those that do will have an encounter one day with a military member that knows what CAP is, and it will be an "eyeopening" experience. 

[Rotorhead]

NBow, the fact that about 10% of us have seen such behavior is nothing to crow about.  Of course this should never happen at all, in particular a CAP officer trying to pull rank on someone in the military, but it doesn't seem to be at such levels that it should impact decisions that are made on uniform wear, rank systems, etc. 

At worst it indicates that we might want to beef up the sections in our iniital member training on these issues and hammer home the wrongness of such behavior.

Well there is a "wanna bee" crowd in CAP, they love to wear flight suits where wearing a golf shirt & gray pants would work just fine (or mandatory wear of the blue flight suit), or wear all those other AF uniforms (especially the BDU's), to look AF AUX so to speak.
     

I don't even own the golf shirt combo.

How in the world does wearing one of the organization's approved uniforms define someone as a RM wannabe?

[heliodoc]

RM

Do not know about the wannbe syndrome on flightsuits...

At my Sqdn meeting two weeks ago, at the ol ARNG hangar I worked at, two of the aviators UH60 and CH47, asked how I was doing and how the CAP was.  They asked about the general things about CAP..never once was the flight suit brought up...

Guess they knew the score.

BUT If CAPers are portraying things they are not at a GA airport and demanding services like fuel or whatnot and sometimes it has been observed, where on God's green Earth does one suppose the GA and some others in various communities get their ideas?

It sure wasn't the sick sales campaign CAP has out that explains the uniform wear to the public

Some people get and some do not....but actions have spoken louder than words while some of these "wannabees" have screwed it up.   All the training you can give somebody....well that depends on how they receive the training..isn't always going to get the response everybody would like.  Remember CAP makes mistakes like the general and the military ( remember the SAC nuke fiasco) the only thing we got is 2B powers that probably do not have enough teeth for uniform wear,  But THAT is a different thread CAPT alk could assault for years on end

Jealousy?  debatable

[Smithsonia]

If you are a police officer - then you are a Cop, Copper, Badge Heavy, little Hitler, etc.

If you are a Fireman, Soldier, Bus Driver, or Gate Guard, some one has said something negative about your uniform in your presence. It is the nature of "we" versus "them." Meaning...

By in large people of any civilian group remain suspicious of any person of authority. Even when this authority is not being expressed except through the wearing of a uniform. Uniforms mean authority. Or a better word is Uniforms translate to authority. Authority causes suspicion. We wear uniforms. Occasionally we arouse suspicion.

Ignore it. Be friendly, professional, and courteous - And let the rest slide by as it is an irrational reaction to uniforms which are signs of authority... which make us suspicious.