CAP Officers Behaving Badly Poll

[RiverAux]

One of the more common stories and/or complaints floating around here regularly is about some CAP officer going trolling for salutes on a military base or trying to pull rank on someone in the actual military, or getting upset that someone in the military didn't salute them.  This is most often used as an anecdote to support some opinion about CAP not being worthy to wear AF-style uniforms or being a bunch of posers. 

This is almost unheard of in my experience and I don't think it happens enough to be a real factor in CAP/AF relations.  But lets put some numbers on it. 

Have you personally seen such behavior or do you have reliable information that someone that you personally know has done any of those things in the last 5 years? 

If your best story is about some person you couldn't pick out of a lineup or if it came from a buddy who told you that he heard that some guy in another Wing did this..... -- It doesn't count. 

[Smithsonia]

My wife is not a member but refuses to salute me under any circumstances. This disappoints me no end.

I've told her when I make Major I expect better treatment. With this news, she snickers, makes a screwy face, and points at me. Does that count as bad behavior?

Personally, I don't think she is disrespectful of the uniform... just of me.

[wuzafuzz]

CAP Officers Behaving Badly...tonight on Fox!

[billford1]

While on a base in BBDUs I've been saluted by Army NG troops. Recalling the stories about a delusional CAP General trying to boss around AF Personnel makes me wonder what happens to somebody to make them create such a spectacle. Sometimes Cadets Salute me which is great. Years ago when I was in a S.C. Squadron the Cadets were very good about saluting me except for one Cadet Major who refused to Salute me but I did not make an issue of it.  I think there's a strong case to be made for an upgraded Professional Development program for CAP Officers that should take precedence over Aerospace and specialty track programs. I would inquire with the CAP/USAF State Director to try to bring USAF Officers and NCOs to teach a component of SLS and CLC courses. I think this could have a positive impact on how CAP Officers look and act. I know of at least one squadron where I relocated to most of the senior officers went through customs and courtesies classes (taught by Cadets)  which included close order drill. If there are any in the AF who have high expectations of CAP Officers the AF folks could make a difference. When it comes to being a CAP Officer on a Military Base I only wear the Polo Shirt.

[Eclipse]

Sometimes Cadets Salute me which is great.

Sometimes?  I assume when they don't you actively and professionally "remind them", right?

[Eclipse]

I'd also like to here the first-hand "I saw it." or  "I had to deal with it" stories of those who are voting that
they know of these situations.

[RiverAux]

If a CAP Officer complains about a CAP cadet saluting them, that is 100% okay and such incidents should not be counted in the polls since in this case, the CAP Officer has every right to expect such a salute.  Don't include such incidents in your answer. 

And for that matter, if a CAP Officer goes trolling for salutes around CAP cadets, thats also "legal", if a little silly, so don't include it.

Also, don't include CAP Officers trying to pull rank on other CAP members.  Given the way we allocate authority for various things in CAP this certainly can be considered "behaving badly", but the poll is about CAP members actions in and around the real military. 

[heliodoc]

Now CAPers are "trolling for numbers" checking on RM and CAP relations based on saluting

There wer plenty of poser 20 -30 yrs ago and I am sure there are some that do exist now

Could you CAPers really tell a poser from the real thing?? That suggestion to get a RM folk to an SLS or CLC course, is that really a new idea?  Cmon  invite a REAL AF or Guard member to it without a SD "permission"

CAPtalk and numbers.....we don't need no stinking numbers, we just need further confirmation that CAP needs salutes to be relevant and viable.  CAP senior member programs have ALWAYS been in need of a structured customs and courtesies course....ALLL of them NOT just the pilots

C'mon!! Where are your scientific numbers to prove this poll??   

[billford1]

Sometimes Cadets Salute me which is great.

Sometimes?  I assume when they don't you actively and professionally "remind them", right?

I considered making an issue of it but if you've got a Senior Officer who tells you that Cadets don't salute seniors who are in a corporate and not in an AF uniform what's the point? My Squadron Commander made an issue of it directing the Cadets to Salute all Senior Members and I agree that they should. It varies from Squadron to Squadron. Most Senior Officers I've talked to about this in the past agreed that all seniors are due a salute, and are obligated to return the salute. I haven't raised the issue beyond that because it's not a regulation. When with CAP on a Military Base I think the dynamics change a little so I'll take up the issue privately with the CAP Commanding Officer in charge privately and let the answer given stand. As for Military personnel my experience has been somewhat different with AF Majors, Colonels and Sr NCOs than it has with younger enlisted folks. I take care to be reserved like a good guest.

[billford1]

Now CAPers are "trolling for numbers" checking on RM and CAP relations based on saluting
CAPers trolling among RM do so at their own risk.
There wer plenty of poser 20 -30 yrs ago and I am sure there are some that do exist now

Could you CAPers really tell a poser from the real thing?? That suggestion to get a RM folk to an SLS or CLC course, is that really a new idea?  Cmon  invite a REAL AF or Guard member to it without a SD "permission"?

A poser is less likely to remain composed and respectable so my answer is yes. Who in CAP would not go to the SD for "Permission"
CAPtalk and numbers.....we don't need no stinking numbers," WHAAT??

" we just need further confirmation that CAP needs salutes to be relevant and viable."  Yes

"CAP senior member programs have ALWAYS been in need of a structured customs and courtesies course....ALLL of them NOT just the pilots"   Agreed

C'mon!! Where are your scientific numbers to prove this poll??   

Please; Why does anyone need scientific numbers? Do You?

[isuhawkeye]

The problem with putting numbers to this problem is that it only takes 1 incident to ruin years of hard work building relationships.

[DG]

The US Coast Guard Auxiliary does not salute.

[Stonewall]

I personally witnessed/experienced a CAP senior member not so much "demanding" respect from the military, but certainly expecting it.  Not to mention, this person wanted to be considered in such a status that they were, in fact, equal to that of her military counterpart.

As an example, during an encampment at a Navy base, this Lt Col was the Encampment CC.  The Lt Col made sure they were "taken care of" accordingly and put in the Visiting Officers Quarters for that of an O-5 or higher.  This was not conducive to being readily available to other encampment staff as the Encampment CC was far from the center of encampment.

I would equate this person to being that of a wanna-be.  However, not in the sense that we often think, i.e. Ranger, Commando, Ninja; but rather a member of Joint Chiefs.

[RiverAux]

Just to clarify, when I included "trolling for salutes on a military base" as an option, I'm talking about someone that goes out of their way to put themselves in a position where they might get saluted.  For example, if walking from the parking lot to a building where there is a CAP meeting, they detour  way out of their way to walk by a bunch of military enlisted folks. 

[heliodoc]

^^

And to clarify, River.  I have seen it done during my days as a aircraft mech on Guard and AD time.  Did not see it everyday and I know it did not happen everyday...

Makes CAP officers look like tools

[Spike]

Hey...even in the military some of us don't go looking for salutes.  To tell you the truth, it gets somewhat old always having to return salutes when I am just running to the BX/PX or the Commissary. 

I don't yell at the SP or MP folks at the gate when they don't salute me in my car, nor do I run down a person for failing to salute me.

In CAP, I think it is even less common for members trolling for salutes.  If they did, they are only making a fool of themselves.  However, I will be the first to remind Cadets that Officers are rated a salute and should be addressed as Sir or Ma'am.

 

[flyboy53]

I guess I'm really getting tired of these rumors and stories. I was a base liaision twice and a Reserve Assistance NCO for a couple of years. There were bigger issues than salutes that occurred; like the second lieutenant that walked into the Civil Engineering Squadron at Westover AFB and demanded paint, supplies and tools. I got called in front of the wing commander. The thing with the salute that I was personally aware of was the IL Wing Commander at an encampment at Chanute AFB, IL back in the early 70s. He got escorted from the base. You hear the same stories about guys with half-zipped up flight suits on crew buses. Can't we as an organization just enjoy the priviledge of the uniform and rank and not let it go to our heads. Those stories continue to just reopen old wounds.

[James Shaw]

I feel that if you are a SM of any grade than you should be saluted by all cadets. If I had a cadet who refused to than I would address it directly. It is part of their leadership training. I dont care what uniform you are in as a SM it is still our uniform and the cadet should salute.

If I am on a military base of any sort than I don't expect any salutes at all but will salute others as a matter of professional courtesy. If I get a salute than a will properly return the salute.

During my stay in San Antonio I went to lunch at a Denny's across the street. On the way back we saw some Active Duty Air Force Officers crossing the street (not CAP, Dr. Conference at hotel next to us) and both female officers (captains) saluted myself and Col Blascovich. I returned the salute and they stopped and talked to us for a few minutes. Both psychiatrists asked us a few questions about what CAP was doing in Texas and we explained. They said they appreciated what CAP does and saluted us before they left. Nice gesture.


On the other side of the coin. I had a 2LT in my squadron who called and chewed out a recruiter that had talked to their daughter about the AF. She misrepresented herself as an AD member and this guy was an E6. Had a pretty big    stink about it in the area for a while.

[heliodoc]

flyboy

The folks on CAPtalk demand respect to their authority and by talking or writing about it here are consistently opening wounds on salutes, ate up uniform wear

I come here for the humor certainly not for the "technology transfer."  Because there certainly isn't enough here and certainly all those folks who love to tell you they are solving the problems while telling other s to get out of CAP and leave it to their"capable" hands.  There have been way too many capable hands in CAP, that IS why we are the fix we are in :clap: :clap: :clap:

Folks here LOVE to open wounds.....CAP just DOES NOT get enough salutes or pats on the back and certainly uniform wear has gotten to a fever pitch here far worse than ANY AD assignment ever. 

WHHHHHHHAAAAA

[BuckeyeDEJ]

[Smokey]

I am a regular at Edwards AFB for meetings and landings as the CAP DO for shuttle ops.  My normal uniform is flight suit as that is uniform of the day there. I do not  "troll" for salutes, but have been routinely saluted by AF, Army, Marine and Navy personnel.  I always smartly return the salute and if not saluted say nothing.  I always salute those above me in grade from any service.
I have been treated no differently than any other military member, but never demand such.

On the last shuttle landing the Air Boss (Army CW4) kept referring to doing things for the colonel.  It took me a while before I figured out he was referring to me ( I made Lt Col this past July). And The Brig Gen congratulated me on my promotion in front of the shuttle team at the EOM brief which included NASA, Army , AF, and Navy folks and I was treaated as an equel.

My shuttle team is also treated the same way, because I only choose those who look and act professionally.  Should any of them act "Badly" they will be off the team.  The same will apply to those I schedule for the Surrogate Predator program.  Either look and act like a professional or you won't participate.

[James Shaw]

Either look and act like a professional or you won't participate.

100% allright and amen.

[Smithsonia]

On my ground team... Lost hikers best be snappy and correct with their salutes, or we leave them where we find them. Is that so bad?

[DG]

I am a regular at Edwards AFB for meetings and landings as the CAP DO for shuttle ops.  My normal uniform is flight suit as that is uniform of the day there. I do not  "troll" for salutes, but have been routinely saluted by AF, Army, Marine and Navy personnel.  I always smartly return the salute and if not saluted say nothing.  I always salute those above me in grade from any service.
I have been treated no differently than any other military member, but never demand such.

On the last shuttle landing the Air Boss (Army CW4) kept referring to doing things for the colonel.  It took me a while before I figured out he was referring to me ( I made Lt Col this past July). And The Brig Gen congratulated me on my promotion in front of the shuttle team at the EOM brief which included NASA, Army , AF, and Navy folks and I was treaated as an equel.

My shuttle team is also treated the same way, because I only choose those who look and act professionally.  Should any of them act "Badly" they will be off the team.  The same will apply to those I schedule for the Surrogate Predator program.  Either look and act like a professional or you won't participate.

When you say "CAP DO," do you mean for CAWG or National?

[Rotorhead]

On my ground team... Lost hikers best be snappy and correct with their salutes, or we leave them where we find them. Is that so bad?

I wanted to bill them, but Nooooo

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Either look and act like a professional or you won't participate.

100% allright and amen.

I'm with you on that, too. And to add to that, what you look like DOES affect how you play with others. If you're squared away and present situational awareness, you'll do just fine; if you're a slob and aren't paying attention, or you're too busy babysitting unruly cadets, you'll be shunned.

[RiverAux]

Okay, it appears our little CAPTalk poll (insert standard caveats about this sort of poll) seems to agree with my impression that the sort of behaviour that would seem to be a major problem based on the times it is mentioned in various discussions here is quite rare. 

NBow, the fact that about 10% of us have seen such behavior is nothing to crow about.  Of course this should never happen at all, in particular a CAP officer trying to pull rank on someone in the military, but it doesn't seem to be at such levels that it should impact decisions that are made on uniform wear, rank systems, etc. 

At worst it indicates that we might want to beef up the sections in our iniital member training on these issues and hammer home the wrongness of such behavior. 

[RADIOMAN015]

NBow, the fact that about 10% of us have seen such behavior is nothing to crow about.  Of course this should never happen at all, in particular a CAP officer trying to pull rank on someone in the military, but it doesn't seem to be at such levels that it should impact decisions that are made on uniform wear, rank systems, etc. 

At worst it indicates that we might want to beef up the sections in our iniital member training on these issues and hammer home the wrongness of such behavior.

Well there is a "wanna bee" crowd in CAP, they love to wear flight suits where wearing a golf shirt & gray pants would work just fine (or mandatory wear of the blue flight suit), or wear all those other AF uniforms (especially the BDU's), to look AF AUX so to speak.

Unfortunately, those in the "real" Air Force that have a "bad" experience with CAP, may not forget it, and you just never know what rank/position they will hold in the future that may affect CAP in a negative way.  Right now there isn't too much in the new member's orientation on this but I would agree that it should be stressed. 

We don't need "wanna bee" in CAP, but we do need volunteers committed to helping us successfully fulfill our 3 major missions.
RM
     

[flyerthom]

Well there is a "wanna bee" crowd in CAP, they love to wear flight suits where wearing a golf shirt & gray pants would work just fine (or mandatory wear of the blue flight suit), or wear all those other AF uniforms (especially the BDU's), to look AF AUX so to speak.
...
We don't need "wanna bee" in CAP, but we do need volunteers committed to helping us successfully fulfill our 3 major missions.
RM
     

Unfortunately, any organization the is worth doing will attract the wannabee element. Even the Marines just nailed an actual marine for inflating his war record an bling count. Fire and EMS has it's whacker (woo woo) types who hang $2000 blue light bars on $500 pick ups.  We need emphasise our roll in mentoring and hopefully discourage wannabee behaviors. Plus  we need to police ourselves to correct the ones we have.

[flyguy06]

Well there is a "wanna bee" crowd in CAP, they love to wear flight suits where wearing a golf shirt & gray pants would work just fine (or mandatory wear of the blue flight suit), or wear all those other AF uniforms (especially the BDU's), to look AF AUX so to speak.
...
We don't need "wanna bee" in CAP, but we do need volunteers committed to helping us successfully fulfill our 3 major missions.
RM
     

Unfortunately, any organization the is worth doing will attract the wannabee element. Even the Marines just nailed an actual marine for inflating his war record an bling count. Fire and EMS has it's whacker (woo woo) types who hang $2000 blue light bars on $500 pick ups.  We need emphasise our roll in mentoring and hopefully discourage wannabee behaviors. Plus  we need to police ourselves to correct the ones we have.

I take exception to that. I like wearing the flight suit and military uniforms and I dont own the blue golf shirt and I am hardly a wanna bee. Why is a person called a name because they want to look like an auxillary of a military organization? Do tou call Coast Guard auxilarist wanna bees? Do you call State defense Force personnel wanna bees? Do you call volunteer Firefighters and reserve police officers wanna bees? Whats the difference? I joined a military organization. thus I want o look miliytary. The USAF and the general public expect it.

[RRLE]

my impression that the sort of behaviour that would seem to be a major problem based on the times it is mentioned in various discussions here is quite rare. 

NBow, the fact that about 10% of us have seen such behavior is nothing to crow about.

I don't know where you get your 10% from. The first 3 categories in your poll total to 32.6%. Most would not consider 10% (your figure) occurence 'quite rare'. That adjective would normally be reserved for the low single digits. And a few tenths of a percentage point off 1/3 is by no means quite rare or rare.

[RRLE]

Do tou call Coast Guard auxilarist wanna bees?

The wannabee charge is often tossed around by Auxies on their main discussion board. It may happen more there then on CAP boards since the Aux as an institution is much more civilian then CAP. For example, Auxie don't salute each other and they don't use military titles when addressing the leadership. Only the District Commodores and higher are addressed by title and there is no recourse if you don't use their titles.

Do you call State defense Force personnel wanna bees?

Do I - no. But the charge does appear on a regular basis on SDF boards. A few years ago,  the SGAUS (State Guard Association of the US) President made a statement that it was a good thing that most SDFs were unarmed. He said it helped reduce the wannabee element.

[RiverAux]

I don't know where you get your 10% from.

That was in reference to the CAP officer trying to pull rank which is the only one of these that I consider serious (yes, I was rounding down slightly). 

[billford1]

Okay, it appears our little CAPTalk poll (insert standard caveats about this sort of poll) seems to agree with my impression that the sort of behaviour that would seem to be a major problem based on the times it is mentioned in various discussions here is quite rare. 

NBow, the fact that about 10% of us have seen such behavior is nothing to crow about.  Of course this should never happen at all, in particular a CAP officer trying to pull rank on someone in the military, but it doesn't seem to be at such levels that it should impact decisions that are made on uniform wear, rank systems, etc. 

At worst it indicates that we might want to beef up the sections in our iniital member training on these issues and hammer home the wrongness of such behavior.

Our last PDO was a retired AF LTC who shared with us what is expected of CAP Officers with regard to Military Customs and Courtesies , and that we need to professional and respectable.

[flyerthom]

Well there is a "wanna bee" crowd in CAP, they love to wear flight suits where wearing a golf shirt & gray pants would work just fine (or mandatory wear of the blue flight suit), or wear all those other AF uniforms (especially the BDU's), to look AF AUX so to speak.
...
We don't need "wanna bee" in CAP, but we do need volunteers committed to helping us successfully fulfill our 3 major missions.
RM
     

Unfortunately, any organization the is worth doing will attract the wannabee element. Even the Marines just nailed an actual marine for inflating his war record an bling count. Fire and EMS has it's whacker (woo woo) types who hang $2000 blue light bars on $500 pick ups.  We need emphasise our roll in mentoring and hopefully discourage wannabee behaviors. Plus  we need to police ourselves to correct the ones we have.

I take exception to that. I like wearing the flight suit and military uniforms and I dont own the blue golf shirt and I am hardly a wanna bee. Why is a person called a name because they want to look like an auxillary of a military organization? Do tou call Coast Guard auxilarist wanna bees? Do you call State defense Force personnel wanna bees? Do you call volunteer Firefighters and reserve police officers wanna bees? Whats the difference? I joined a military organization. thus I want o look miliytary. The USAF and the general public expect it.

There is a critical difference between wearing uniforms properly / holding a standard and inflating your importance.
That seemed to be the entire point of the pole. A wannabee puts the uniform on for themselves. Most members (you in particular) put the uniform on in service. A member puts the uniform on in pride. A wannabee puts the uniform on in hubris.

My apologies for the lack of clarity. You are not a target or a wannabee.   In years of volunteer ambulance service I've dealt with both kinds.  The classic wannabee is someone who's reason to be there is Look at Me I'm so cool! These are the guys who get EMS people hurt. They're the guys who try to R Lee Ermey the cadets. They're the Stolen Valor guys.

Your not one of these. But CAP does attract some of these. It is our responsibility to police these types and either mentor them away from such behaviors or discourage them from coming on board to start.

[wuzafuzz]

It's not accurate to make assumptions about the motivations of others based solely on their uniform choice.

I sometimes wear BDU's when a polo uniform would do, simply because I got the BDU's for free.  Why buy yet another polo shirt uniform when I don't have to?  I'm not going to drop the cash for another polo just to avoid wannabe stones being thrown my way.

Finally though, as long as a member behaves within reasonable limits why should we give a rodent's backside what their internal motivations are?   The only issue should be observed behavior.   Who cares if someone secretly digs their captains bars but maintains their cool and contributes?

[Spike]

Here is how I see it, and you can let me know if I am totally off base.

We are given the multiple options in uniform wear because we voluntarily give up our time, money and resources to support the Community and Air Force.  It is a privilege granted to us, and as long as we continue to act professional and do our assigned duties the best way we can, we will continue to wear AF style uniforms.  Now, CAP corporate uniforms are not different.  They carry with them the same responsibilities. 

I am sick hearing one group or another bash each other over uniform wear. 

I know this is about CAP Officers behaving badly, well.....they can also behave badly toward each other, and that was not on the poll.

I wear what I want, as long as it is comfortable, clean and makes me look good! 

Don't forget, it is NEVER what uniform you wear, but "can you get the job done", that most people are interested in.

As far as trolling for salutes.......those that do will have an encounter one day with a military member that knows what CAP is, and it will be an "eyeopening" experience. 

[Rotorhead]

NBow, the fact that about 10% of us have seen such behavior is nothing to crow about.  Of course this should never happen at all, in particular a CAP officer trying to pull rank on someone in the military, but it doesn't seem to be at such levels that it should impact decisions that are made on uniform wear, rank systems, etc. 

At worst it indicates that we might want to beef up the sections in our iniital member training on these issues and hammer home the wrongness of such behavior.

Well there is a "wanna bee" crowd in CAP, they love to wear flight suits where wearing a golf shirt & gray pants would work just fine (or mandatory wear of the blue flight suit), or wear all those other AF uniforms (especially the BDU's), to look AF AUX so to speak.
     

I don't even own the golf shirt combo.

How in the world does wearing one of the organization's approved uniforms define someone as a RM wannabe?

[heliodoc]

RM

Do not know about the wannbe syndrome on flightsuits...

At my Sqdn meeting two weeks ago, at the ol ARNG hangar I worked at, two of the aviators UH60 and CH47, asked how I was doing and how the CAP was.  They asked about the general things about CAP..never once was the flight suit brought up...

Guess they knew the score.

BUT If CAPers are portraying things they are not at a GA airport and demanding services like fuel or whatnot and sometimes it has been observed, where on God's green Earth does one suppose the GA and some others in various communities get their ideas?

It sure wasn't the sick sales campaign CAP has out that explains the uniform wear to the public

Some people get and some do not....but actions have spoken louder than words while some of these "wannabees" have screwed it up.   All the training you can give somebody....well that depends on how they receive the training..isn't always going to get the response everybody would like.  Remember CAP makes mistakes like the general and the military ( remember the SAC nuke fiasco) the only thing we got is 2B powers that probably do not have enough teeth for uniform wear,  But THAT is a different thread CAPT alk could assault for years on end

Jealousy?  debatable

[Smithsonia]

If you are a police officer - then you are a Cop, Copper, Badge Heavy, little Hitler, etc.

If you are a Fireman, Soldier, Bus Driver, or Gate Guard, some one has said something negative about your uniform in your presence. It is the nature of "we" versus "them." Meaning...

By in large people of any civilian group remain suspicious of any person of authority. Even when this authority is not being expressed except through the wearing of a uniform. Uniforms mean authority. Or a better word is Uniforms translate to authority. Authority causes suspicion. We wear uniforms. Occasionally we arouse suspicion.

Ignore it. Be friendly, professional, and courteous - And let the rest slide by as it is an irrational reaction to uniforms which are signs of authority... which make us suspicious. 

[Strick]

NBow, the fact that about 10% of us have seen such behavior is nothing to crow about.  Of course this should never happen at all, in particular a CAP officer trying to pull rank on someone in the military, but it doesn't seem to be at such levels that it should impact decisions that are made on uniform wear, rank systems, etc. 

At worst it indicates that we might want to beef up the sections in our iniital member training on these issues and hammer home the wrongness of such behavior.

Well there is a "wanna bee" crowd in CAP, they love to wear flight suits where wearing a golf shirt & gray pants would work just fine (or mandatory wear of the blue flight suit), or wear all those other AF uniforms (especially the BDU's), to look AF AUX so to speak.



I fly at least 10 hours a week for CAP and wear a flight suit so does that make me a wanna bee?

[SilverEagle2]

How in the world does wearing one of the organization's approved uniforms define someone as a RM wannabe?

I ask the same.

I choose to wear a flight suit because it is safer than a Polo Combo. If I go down in the mountains of Utah/Colorado etc, I want to be in boots and nomex not cotton and shoes.

Might want to re-eval your thinking and stance a little.

[James Shaw]

What was the topic on this?

Oh yeah....the good far outweigh the bad examples. Just my  .02 worth.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Sorry for the necrothreding, but what should you do in a situation where a soldier salutes a CAP Officer? This happened to me while at a class recently. I saluted back and went on my way not sure of what to do. Should you salute and leave it be? Or should you tell them not to, or should you salute and inform them not to? What to do?

[JoeTomasone]

Sorry for the necrothreding, but what should you do in a situation where a soldier salutes a CAP Officer? This happened to me while at a class recently. I saluted back and went on my way not sure of what to do. Should you salute and leave it be? Or should you tell them not to, or should you salute and inform them not to? What to do?

When saluted, return the salute.   A salute is a military form of greeting, while some are entitled to one, it is never inappropriate for anyone to render a salute.     

AD military are not required to salute CAP members, but may if they so choose (or, more commonly in my opinion, don't realize that they are NOT required).


As to the original topic, I don't know of anyone personally doing anything over the top, but I have heard anecdotes.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Radioman, with all due respect, your stance on "CAP shouldn't wear AF-type uniforms" is well known, therefore I think that stance colours your reply.

I joined in 1993, not long after the "Harwell incident" and imposition of berry boards.

I think that caused such a shakeup in CAP thinking from National on down that CAP has become so skittish about such an incident happening again that the vast majority of CAP members I know wouldn't consider attempting to troll for a salute.  It is that very skittishness about "oh no we might be ticking the AF off!!!!" that caused us to lose a perfectly good, and popular, uniform (the CSU) and ensured that the only alternative to the AF-style uniform is going to probably be the bloody awful (in my view) grey/white, forever and ever amen.

It's really silly to detour out of your way just to see if you'll get one.

In my experience, it really depends on the situation as to whether or not I get saluted or not.

I rarely get saluted by AF personnel.  Older NCO's may say "hello," or something like that (which is perfectly fine), but young Airmen look at me like they can't figure out what I am.  Most salutes by AF personnel I have received come from those who are former CAP members, or who have a son/daughter that is a cadet, etc.

Most commonly I get saluted by Army personnel, sometimes by Navy and Marines, and Coast Guard on the few occasions I encounter them.

I always try to either initiate or return a greeting: "Good morning, Corporal," "Good evening, Master Sergeant," etc. regardless of whether or not I've been saluted.

Of course, I return any and all salutes received, accompanied by a greeting, and render a salute to anyone senior in rank to me.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Thank you. Sorry again for the necrothread.

[JK657]

CAP officer trolling for salutes on military base

Ive seen first hand at an active Air Force Base. They (there were two of them) were posted up in front of the PX. As Airmen would approach them they would face towards them so as to ensure the Airman saw them and saluted. Its hard to describe but picture them talking face to face and then move shoulder to shoulder so they were now facing the Airman. As said Airman got closer he would salute and then the CAP Officers would return the salute and move back to face to face communication until the next airman was in the area. They were directly in front of the entrance so there was no avoiding them. I like to give the benefit of the doubt but after watching them for 20 minutes or so while I ate my lunch I figured out what they were doing.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

^That is just sad.

I didn't know what to do. When I was Army, I would salute CAP officers, even cadet officers because I respect CAP and know what a good it does. So far as the cadets were concerned, I saluted them because they had earned the right to be saluted by one group so why not. Plus it makes most cadets feel good. I was corrected once by a CAP SM Officer, only once, and I saluted quite a few. I told him that unless it is just flat wrong, I wanted to keep doing it.

[Eclipse]

Cadet officers have not "earned the right" to be saluted by adults of any service.

Senior Members "correcting" a member of the military for saluting them need to be "corrected" themselves.

The customs and rules of saluting are simple - people making up their own just makes it harder on everyone and
turns what should be a 2-second acknowledgement into a painful socio-economic mental exercise.

[SARDOC]

^^

And to clarify, River.  I have seen it done during my days as a aircraft mech on Guard and AD time.  Did not see it everyday and I know it did not happen everyday...

Makes CAP officers look like tools

Any Officer trolling for salutes is a tool.  Don't get me wrong...my years in the military I always afforded officers all due respect.  I also hated Soldiers and Sailors who would wait indoors to avoid saluting officers or avoiding Colors or crossing the street to avoid. 

Officers trolling are just trying to make up for their inadequacies instead of being a true leader.  Thanks  IMHO.

[JohnKachenmeister]

A little more than half of the Air Force personnel I encounter will salute.  Virtually all of the members of other services will salute CAP officers.  As far as AF personnel, most all of the AF officers render a salute to senior-in-grade CAP officers.

In cases where a salute is rendered, I return it smartly.

When a salute is not rendered, I have nothing to return.  I appreciate a verbal greeting, however.  Even if military courtesy is not required, common courtesy is still appropriate.

The idea of "Trolling" for salutes is absurd.  What are you going to do if they don't salute?

Maybe our Group is different.  I have never known an officer to do something like that.