CAP aircraft markings

[RiverAux]

I've got a fairly simple question and then an open question about aircraft markings.

Simple question:  CAPR66-1 attachment one shows a pretty old marking scheme (still has the CAP seal on the tail).  I can't seem to find anything requiring the change to the tail letter from AF Aux to Civil Air Patrol and changing the emblem on the door from the CAP Auxiliary emblem to the command patch.  Also, are we supposed to be transitioning back to the "old" Civil Air Patrol command patch or are we going to stick with the one that has "U.S" on it?  Can anyone point me in the right direction?  Thanks.

Now, for the discussion item:  Which do you prefer to have on the door, the old CAP Auxiliary emblem (this is how it is labeled on the CAP seals and emblems page in e-services) or the command patch? 

CAP Auxiliary Emblem:


Personally, I'm in favor of this one as I think it just looks more appropriate in this location than the command patch shape.   

[mikeylikey]

^ Unfortunately, it has "USAF AUX" in the patch.  I will let the Posse Comitatus folks beat that dead horse until this thread eventually gets locked like all the others. 

Personally, I like the one you posted above.  It is historical.

As for the changes, I believe it is hidden in one of the multiple ICL's that should have been written into regs within 90 days of publishing.   

[Eclipse]

The change to vehicle markings was done via a Logistics / Transport ICL.  CAPR 77-1 is the reg which prescribes markings, and it has not been updated yet. I believe it was included in the large ICL which directed rooftop numbers and direction indicators.

Due to the costs of installation, as well as the markings not holding up in harsh climates, and some political inertia, the remarking was held off by many states to see where this all landed, especially on ground vehicles.

In the interim of the above, the MAJCOM started being in play again and NHQ LG directed everyone to hold off doing anything further.

The currently approved door insignia for vehicles is the "new" MAJCOM that says "Civil Air Patrol" sans US - the version with US in it is approved for various uses until 2010, per the 1 April 08 "Changes to CAPM 39-1" ICL roll-up memo, vehicle emblems will be replaced through attrition..

Personally, I prefer the MAJCOM, though I never had any issue with the round organizational emblem.

[RiverAux]

Not seeing an ICL for this....

[Eclipse]

Not seeing an ICL for this....

http://level2.cap.gov/documents/2008_01_25_Uniforms.pdf

CC MEMORANDUM FOR ALL CAP UNIT COMMANDERS
SUBJECT: Changes to CAPM 39-1  1 April 2008
g. CAP Command Patch. The CAP Command Patch was redesigned to remove the "U.S." from the design. The new patch may be worn immediately and the phase out date for the "U.S." version is 1 March 2010. The emblem on vehicles and aircraft that display the "U.S" version will be replaced through attrition.

[RiverAux]

Okay, that gets me part-way there --silly me -- not thinking to look in a ICL to the uniform regulation for information on aircraft markings......  Thanks. 

I'm still looking for the ICL/reg authorizing the command patch on the aircraft door. 

[lordmonar]

Okay, that gets me part-way there --silly me -- not thinking to look in a ICL to the uniform regulation for information on aircraft markings......  Thanks. 

I'm still looking for the ICL/reg authorizing the command patch on the aircraft door. 

Are you talking about the old change that look the corpoate seal and put the command patch on the door?  It came out the same time we took USAF-AUX off the tail.  I think it came out as a policy letter by He who will not be nameds.

[RiverAux]

Probably.  But shouldn't a policy letter effecting a regulation have been posted as an ICL? 

[PHall]

Probably.  But shouldn't a policy letter effecting a regulation have been posted as an ICL? 

You're trying to use logic here. Stop doing that before you hurt yourself.

[stratoflyer]

^ lol

[stratoflyer]

OK. Here I go now...

USAF AUX all the way!! Definitely the old CAP emblem should go on everything vehicular.

BUT--

--before if go on let me just say I joined this forum to learn many things and I did learn one thing just now. I am not beating a dead horse here...

Unfortunately, it has "USAF AUX" in the patch.  I will let the Posse Comitatus folks beat that dead horse until this thread eventually gets locked like all the others.

So is this why they've taken all the"USAF AUX" markings off of things? Makes some sense, especially how CAP is definitely helping out with Homeland Security. Then again our status is more like that of the coast guard in which case we could be exempt like the CG is under Posse Comitatus.

I always like being given a reason that explain actions (anyone like science?). Until now, no one ever mentioned to me a plausible reason for redesigning the majcom patch.

[SJFedor]

OK. Here I go now...

USAF AUX all the way!! Definitely the old CAP emblem should go on everything vehicular.

BUT--

--before if go on let me just say I joined this forum to learn many things and I did learn one thing just now. I am not beating a dead horse here...

Unfortunately, it has "USAF AUX" in the patch.  I will let the Posse Comitatus folks beat that dead horse until this thread eventually gets locked like all the others.

So is this why they've taken all the"USAF AUX" markings off of things? Makes some sense, especially how CAP is definitely helping out with Homeland Security. Then again our status is more like that of the coast guard in which case we could be exempt like the CG is under Posse Comitatus.

I always like being given a reason that explain actions (anyone like science?). Until now, no one ever mentioned to me a plausible reason for redesigning the majcom patch.

That was one of the reasons given. But in previous threads, it's been theorized that our previous NATCOM was trying to get us more and more into the corporation of CAP (or USCAP?) and less and less USAF AUX.

[Tubacap]

I'm about to embark on writing a research paper on the use of the military, specifically the Reserve, National Guard, and Auxiliaries for domestic disaster response and homeland security.  If anyone is interested, I'll post it up.

I plan on also making this my major project to complete my masters degree, which will be much more in depth with the help of some people from this board!

[SJFedor]

I'd love to read it. 

[stratoflyer]

Yeah I would like to read it also. Sounds good.

Now by that NATCOM that wanted less USAF AUX, was that the guy before our current commander?

Back to aircraft markings--who designed the roundels on the wing of our aircraft? I really like that. Anyone have a pic--I believe its on the left wing underside.

[isuhawkeye]

Image lifted from CAPBlog

[stratoflyer]

Hey thanks! See? That's a cool symbol!

[PHall]

Should be the regular "star and bar" national insignia.

But that's just my opinion.

[SJFedor]

Now by that NATCOM that wanted less USAF AUX, was that the guy before our current commander?

That is correct, the prior CC, or as we call him, he who shall not be named. (HWSNBN)

[N Harmon]

Should be the regular "star and bar" national insignia.

But that's just my opinion.

Agreed. The Coast Guard puts the standard U.S. roundel on their aircraft...



I think CAP should do the same.

If I were king of CAP I would just say enough and follow the standard T-41 paint scheme, substituting Civil Air Patrol for US Air Force and the wing (ie. MIWG) with the CAPflight number on the vertical stabilizer.



I might use some different colors but keep the scheme the same.