PA Wing grounds pilots??

[Patterson]

So a friend of mine forwarded me the email from the PA Wing Commander, mandating all Pilots, crew and anyone associated with an Airplane in PAWG report to the small airport at State College PA for a "safety briefing".  He has made it mandatory and if the member does not show up that person is grounded until they go to the Wing Headquarters a month later and sit through the same presentation. 

Here is the problem many in PAWG have.... the location is both inconvenient and far away from both the East and Western sides of the State.  It was announced only 12 days from the activity, and has not been explained why it is required.  If a member can not make it they are grounded, and must travel to the Wing HQ (near Philadelphia) to make it up on a specific day in September.  If not they are permanently grounded. 

I have have never heard of such a thing, nor would I ever support an arbitrarily mandatory event like this. 

Does anyone have info on this?  Is this a national thing?? 

Here is the link to the "order".  http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs061/1101935192062/archive/1103630599333.html

[FW]

As I understand the situation, the grounding is in response to several breaches of incident reporting and broken aircraft.  These breaches could have caused injuries to aircrews and damage to property.  One aircraft was flown with a broken landing gear bushing and, another had two bad cylinders which ended up freezing on a maint. flight.  There may be other incidents which prompted the wing commander to order a mandatory safety down day however, I think these incidents would be sufficient. (I'll be participating since I do like to keep current with procedures).

This stuff happens frequently.  Unfortunately, there are always some who wish to cut corners or think it unnecessary to report problems.  This is a shame.

[Patterson]

^ I can understand that, and not being a frequent enough aviator myself, are these items you described the type of things that would be seen during a pre-flight or post-flight??  Or are these the things that are found when doing maintenance in New Jersey??

If it is a reporting problem, someone had to have reported them or they would not be known now?  I do not see this being done in other Wings.  If it were, I doubt it would be handled in this manner. 

[FW]

The problems mentioned should have been found during taxi phase of flight or, upon startup.  A Broken Bushing probably happened after a very hard cross wind landing.  It would have been noticed right away or during taxi at next flight or two.  In any event, the hard landing should have been noted and, an inspection of the aircraft during post flight should have discovered the problem
(as I was informed). The bad cylinders were discovered by the mechanic after engine start during maintanence.  The engine must have been running rough although there was no report (as I was told) of any engine problem.  I wonder if the PIC during the transport did a run up?   
Both problems were found by the mechanic while the aircraft were going through routine maint.  Both should have been reported and, each aircraft should have been grounded prior to a mechanic inspection.

Unfortunately this kind of behavior is found in many wings.  And, yes, this is exactily how a wing/cc should respond to such a problem.  We all need to be reminded of proper procedures from time to time and, our leaders must do everything possible to insure our members and equipment function safely and properly.

[Patterson]

^ OK.  Just my curiosity, as a non pilot.  Thank you Sir!

[Big_Ed]

Thanks Colonel - I appreciate your efforts in educating us. 

[RiverAux]

Seems like lazy wing leadership.  The common sense approach would be to give the presentation a reasonable enough times around the state so that most members could reach it without a major effort.  At the group level, perhaps? 

[Al Sayre]

Sometimes the best you can do is make everyone equally unhappy...

[a2capt]

Well, "You can't fly until you see this presentation" .. so .. fly here to get to it.
(okay. you can fly to here, but no where else)

... or there's I-70 and those crazy drivers that stop at the bottom of the onramps.

[SJFedor]

PA did a safety down day a long time ago when I was still a member up there, but if I remember right, if you couldn't make it to one of the seminars, they provided an online way to complete it.

Good idea, but again, can't say I agree with only holding it in one or two places, cuz PA is a pretty big place.

[FW]

Well, "You can't fly until you see this presentation" .. so .. fly here to get to it.
(okay. you can fly to here, but no where else)

Yes, ironic isn't it...

[JC004]

bahahaha.  What?

I agree with groups.  There are six now (kinda 8, but 6 geographic).  That makes the distance more manageable.  I'm not even sure I see a private company doing this to their employees, let alone a volunteer organization.  Round trip to the middle of the state is a lot of hours for the furthest units, a lot of gas, and a lot of money.  That said, it's not like PAWG is uniquely unconcerned about member money or anything (if they are not reimbursing it).  That seems to be nationwide.

Safety presentations at wing do fix your safety issues, though.  I think.

[truthseeker]

Yet another required Safety Briefing will not fix the problem.  It is just an annoyance and a waste of time for the responsible pilots who do follow the rules and MORE than keep up with safety.  This was ALREADY covered in the PA Wing Pilot Meeting earlier in the year.  The irresponsible pilots will continue to assume the problem is NOT them, and they will continue to be irresponsible pilots.  The only way to solve the problem is to use other tools at our disposal, like No-notice CAPF5's to cull the irresponsible pilots from the rolls.  Also, the two specific issues identified by FW were issues with specific irresponsible pilots in the western part of the state, so why doesn't leadership take steps to fix the obvious STAN/EVAL problems in that side of the state??

[FW]

^Actually, you raise some good points.  It would be a good idea to have "No-notice" form 5 rides from time to time as a way to keep pilots sharp.  It would be also good if the wing could identify the irresponsible parties (they can not in these instances) to specificly direct corrective action. 
I can't speak for the wing commander but, I've had to deal with issues like these.  It's tough to have to be the one who makes the decsions.

[Майор Хаткевич]

It's tough to have to be the one who makes the decsions.

Mainly because the anger ends up being directed at you and not those at fault...

[moleunit]

The only way to solve the problem is to use other tools at our disposal, like No-notice CAPF5's to cull the irresponsible pilots from the rolls.  Also, the two specific issues identified by FW were issues with specific irresponsible pilots in the western part of the state, so why doesn't leadership take steps to fix the obvious STAN/EVAL problems in that side of the state??

So true.  Hitting the problem straight on would seem to be the obvious solution.

[RiverAux]

The only way to solve the problem is to use other tools at our disposal, like No-notice CAPF5's to cull the irresponsible pilots from the rolls.

Something that should be considered for a lot of our ES quals as well. 

[Thrashed]

I had to work one Saturday in August, the safety down day.  I'm grounded.  Of course, I only work one Saturday in September; the make up day.  With a little notice, I could have got those days off.  I guess I'm not flying for CAP anymore.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I had to work one Saturday in August, the safety down day.  I'm grounded.  Of course, I only work one Saturday in September; the make up day.  With a little notice, I could have got those days off.  I guess I'm not flying for CAP anymore.

But at least you have a job in this economy, right?

[Lord of the North]

CAP REGULATION 60-1  paragraph 2-7. Grounding and Mishaps.

c.  Commanders or IC/CMDs exercising this authority shall notify the affected aircrew member in writing within 7 days of the date grounded, including the reason(s) this action was taken. The written notification must include a statement telling the aircrew member that he/she has the right to seek reconsideration of this action under the provisions of paragraph 2-7f of CAPR 60-1. A copy of this notification will be filed with the region commander and all intermediate commanders within 14 days of the grounding.

e.  Once grounded, only a wing or higher commander in the individual's chain of command may reinstate a member to flight status. Commanders may set any condition for reinstatement, including completion of a new CAPF 5, CAP Pilot Flight Evaluation.

f.  A member may submit a written appeal to his/her region commander if he/she remains grounded after 90 days. Such an appeal may only be filed one time and must be filed within one year of the initial grounding. Upon receipt of the appeal, the region commander will appoint a review board of at least three CAP check pilots to review the appeal. The review board will examine the facts of the case and make a recommendation to the region commander. The region commander will issue a final decision within 60 days of receipt of the appeal. All such decisions are final and not subject to review by filing a complaint under CAPR 123-2.

I wonder if any of this has happened?